How do I respectfully teach an ex feminist to live more biblically?

First, welcome to Christian Forums and the Married Couples forum!

mmbattlestar said:

Okay, so here's the problem. My wife was a feminist when we started dating. She was extremely rude to me, derogatory, and I could barely be myself around her let alone say the smallest thing about a woman's place in the home or about almost ANYTHING. She would take offense to the smallest statements.

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First thing - when a husband tells a woman about "her place", it is not a good feeling at all. If you hold to that marriage model, a pastor or marriage counselor should have discussed that beforehand. That said, you are now married, yet in a place where you both disagree with the roles of men and women. Be careful about telling a woman what "her place" is. I consider my husband to be the spiritual head of our house - but he has NEVER told me what "my place" is as a wife. If you state things in a demeaning way, intentionally or unintentionally, it makes sense that she would take offense. I don't know how you phrased it, but it sounds like it may not have been phrased properly based on the rest of your post.

When we met she claimed to be Christian (Catholic to be more specific) so I had no idea she would turn out to be a feminist when we got closer. And she was barely a Christian at all and she drove me crazy.

Why was she not a Christian? Because she associated with Satan Worshipers, practiced Witch Craft, was heavily into tarot cards, was extremely disrespectful towards men, wrongfully judged a vast majority of society and thought that women were queens among men.

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So the tarot cards and witchcraft are not right; I'll give you that much. On what way was she disrespectful? Do you mean that she didn't see men as the heads of the house and that women and men weren't equal?

She was only "christian" in the sense that she was raised Catholic (apparently but her family aren't really Christian/Catholic at all either. I can definitely see where she had gotten the ) and that she believed in Jesus and regularly attended Church.

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Careful here - don't judge someone else's salvation!

Despite all of this "baggage" I still accepted her. After all, I had my baggage and baggage of sins too. I loved her deeply and we dated for almost 2 happy years and we've been married almost seven months now.

I've just recently gotten my wife to see the some of the light of her evils and I'm slowly guiding her down the right path. She's dropped out of University, she's been trying to be more respectful towards me, She's starting to show people more compassion and love, I haven't seen her pick up a set of tarot cards in almost a year and a half, and we now have a mostly clean house after living together in filth for the last year or so. She also no longer considers herself a feminist and sees just how evil feminists really are.

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You say she dropped out of university. Did you ask her to do that?? Is that what you told her she needed to do to respect you? Have you considered that some of us struggle with keeping house, and it may not be intentional? Also, consider that you both should work on that and that a "woman's place" isn't necessarily cooking / cleaning / raising children. Even in a marriage following the male leadership model doesn't mean that a woman is necessarily the main person responsible for that. It's good that she is not practicing witchcraft. That said, you shouldn't be "instructing her". Be a leader, yes. Encourage her, yes. Love her more than your own life - YES. Instructing her...well, be careful with that.

I'm starting this topic to ask though, how can I instruct her further without making it seem like I'm just controlling her in a bad way? Like, eventually I would like us to live more biblically and have her start treating me with respect.

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I think I will likely be one of the more mild responses here, and even I feel defensive for your wife when reading this. A wife should respect her husband, but you shouldn't demand it. You should love her more than yourself and consider what is best for her needs as well.

Eventually I would like her to allow me to control the finances, eventually I would like her to start raising our future children, how do I go about prompting her in the right direction while at the same time, treating her with the respect that I want to be given?

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Why do you feel the need to control the finances? Where does it scripturally say that is the man's job? Even the scriptures describing "a good wife" shows her running the household and keeping tabs on the workers of the home. It implies hat this would include managing money in it as well. A healthy marriage considers what each other is best at, and divies out the duties that way. This is applicable to all marriages, including ones that follow the model of the husband being the spiritual head.

Has any women here gone through the same thing when they got married?

I ask her myself and she says that I don't really treat her with respect, and half of the time I seem angry with her when I try to teach her things like how to clean properly.

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Wow. Yea, it sounds like you don't treat her with respect. I am reminded how blessed I am to have my husband. I struggle with cleaning, but my husband is encouraging. He sees my improvements and thanks me for all I do. He takes care of his own mess and helps with joint cleaning. In this same manner, I help him with learning about cutting back on spending money and being more economical. I also encourage him in this. The same thing happens in various areas of our marriage.

Ultimately, I respect him wholeheartedly and I will trust his decisions. That said, he recognizes my strengths and wants me to make decisions in areas that are my strengths. If he vetoed it, I would follow his lead. In over a year of marriage, he has never exercised that choice, despite me being willing to accept his lead.

I'll reiterate about the cleaning: when you struggle with that, it isn't an easy transition. If we try and get better, it helps to have encouragement, not someone saying we aren't doing enough. If you get frustrated with how something is looking cleanliness-wise, consider suggesting that you both take some time to clean things up together. Thank her when she does better. Don't disparage her for not being perfect immediately.

Love her more than yourself. Be willing to have your own self die for her. My pastor said in our marriage sermon - You (pointing to me) submit. You (pointing to my husband) die. That is the only way a husband spiritual head model works. You put her needs before yours. She trusts and respects you willingly. You acknowledge her strengths and encourage her. She acknowledges her weaknesses and works on them. The same applies the opposite direction.

Consider how a husband should act according to the Biblical model you are following. Fix the way you are supposed to act, and I believe her response will adjust as well.

First, I think feminist was the wrong label for what you were describing and is likely to drive the discussion more to a debate on that than to any real problem you have. Feminist has developed multiple meanings depending on the experience and background of the user.

The tarot cards, etc. are evils that it is good for you to influence her to leave. Not sure why you put University right after you mentioned evils she was leaving. Have to admit that makes it hard for me to understand your post.

Also, on the finances, I don't understand why you want to "control" them. That is not a biblical mandate. Remember how the wife is described in Proverbs 31. "Her earnings" and "her trading" both illustrate that she is heavily involved in the finances.

16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

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The goal needs to be for both of you to treat each other with respect and to raise the children when they eventually come. If the model your family chooses is for her to be a stay at home mom that is fine. However, while tasks may be divided between the couple, both are partners in the relationship. Being head of a household does not mean being dictator or even boss. It means being a leader, and a true leader serves his followers first and foremost and helps the whole team define their mission, goals, and then gives them freedom to determine how to succeed in those areas where they have been given responsibility.

It seems to me that your wife has grown a lot in 2 years and 7 months, I'm impressed, a lot of that was pretty profound change.

If you want the best life has to offer, make it your priority to grow ever closer to God, and through your encouragement, influence, and example, lead your wife to do the same thing. Do it together through devotions, Bible study, and prayer. If you do this whole heartedly, you be surprised over time how much you'll both change for the better without having to "help" God change each other.

Wait a minute. You lived together without being married? And you want her to be more "Christian" by conforming to you and your standards and at your pace? And you knew about her disrespect before you got married?

I don't think this is a "feminist" issue. I think this is a matter of two people who have boundary issues and an unhealthy pattern of relating to each other, and if it's not fixed soon, the marriage will unravel.

First, stop trying to make her conform to you and your ideas of what a wife's place is. Let her grow in Christ and discover for herself what fits with who she is. I am a feminist, and I have supported my husband for the last five years while he earns his Master's degree. I have a university education and work hard both outside the home as well as in the home. There is nothing wrong with this. There is nothing wrong with a woman who chooses to pour her whole life into her children and family and home either, if that's what fits with them.

Any kind of home can be a peaceful home, and that should be far more important goal than making your wife understand what you believe to be her "place".

You say

I've done nothing but, try to help my wife since we started dating. Whenever she needed me I was there, even if she couldn't see it, I love her to death and there isn't anything that I wouldn't do for her.

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If that is true, first of all, your wife doesn't need help. She is likely an intelligent person with her own mind. She is not too stupid that you have to help her, teach her or otherwise make her conform - especially teaching her something like cleaning. Holy cow, if anyone tried teaching me how to clean my own home, they better watch out because I would likely rebel and go on strike from cleaning. As well, if it is true that there isn't anything you wouldn't do for her, then here's a good idea: let her grow at her own pace, let her be her own person, let her work into her "role" in your marriage naturally, and in a way that fits with her strengths and who she is.

I am being rather blunt here, but I've read a few words on an internet post about you two, and that's not much, but I can really see why she would accuse you of being controlling. Stop trying to change her. You can't anyway and all you'll do is frustrate yourself trying. So stop it. Start being her friend, someone she can count on to bring out the best in her, someone she is going to want to have children with, someone who she can eventually trust to influence her without controlling her.

And for heaven's sake, both of you learn some interpersonal relational skills. Imo, as the husband it is up to you to initiate the love of Christ into your home and you didn't get it off on the right foot by moving in together to start with. Stop pointing out all her "faults" (as you see them) and start working on being a husband who is worth respecting. That means your good intentions won't get you anywhere if you still come off as controlling and disrespectful to her. Good intentions are meaningless without the evidence of behaviour. So whatever you want from her, start by initiating that same behaviour in yourself rather than trying to make her become what you want her to become. Honour her for who she is instead.

First red flag..."I don't agree with women attending University". Ummm that would never fly with me. "Teach her how to clean"...the first big fight my husband and I had was over vacuuming. He didn't like the way I did it and tried to "teach me"...guess who's been doing the vacuuming for the last 17 years (hint, its not me)?

I think you need to back up. Feminism has nothing to do with your patriarchal delusions. You read the submit part and didn't read the part about "husbands LOVE..."

From what I've read, this isn't a feminist issue. This is an issue of "we need to sit down and have a long conversation", and probably going to counseling to learn how to communicate with each other. You've written two long posts now, and I can't find one time you've mentioned her needs or desires from you at all. Based on what you have written, I am not at all surprised she thought you were trying to control her. First off, if I ever told told my wife what "her place" was, she would slap me so hard my face would have a permanent hand print on it. It's one thing to sit down and talk about who is going to be responsible, and the head of the house, but it's incredibly disrespectful to a woman to tell her what "her place" is, regardless of your intentions. If you do not have an easy time respecting women, you were not ready to get married, but since you are married, that is something that you need to work on yourself.

Secondly, stop trying to change her. She went to college, so she is more than intelligent enough to figure out how to be a wife on her own. You don't need to teach her anything, and definitely do not need to make her conform--especially when it comes to things like household chores. You can't change anybody if they don't want to be change, and all this is going to do is frustrate yourself, and her. Stop being her trainer and start being her friend, become someone that will allow her to become her best, and can trust to help her without it feeling like she is loosing control of who she is as a person. From what I have read, this doesn't sound like a two-way relationship, it sounds like what you want is the only thing that matters, because I can't find one thing mentioning what she wants out of this relationship.

IMHO, you aren't fulfilling your duties to her as a husband. The husband is the head, but that does not mean he is the boss, or in charge. It means to love your wife as Christ loves the church, thus, putting her needs and herself before you, and I don't see that remotely from your post. What I would encourage you to do is stop pointing out her flaws and focus on what she is good at, encourage her, be there for her, and start working as a husband who she respects because she actually respects him, and not because he deserves it.

mmbattlestar said:

I'm starting this topic to ask though, how can I instruct her further without making it seem like I'm just controlling her in a bad way? Like, eventually I would like us to live more biblically and have her start treating me with respect. Eventually I would like her to allow me to control the finances, eventually I would like her to start raising our future children, how do I go about prompting her in the right direction while at the same time, treating her with the respect that I want to be given?

Has any women here gone through the same thing when they got married?

I ask her myself and she says that I don't really treat her with respect, and half of the time I seem angry with her when I try to teach her things like how to clean properly.

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You sound young, and have a naive way of looking at life. I was also icked out completely the way you said things.

No, I never went through what you are talking about. I'm old and I have been married for a long time. The first year is hard, because you are learning about each other. Learning to live with each other, and dealing with the differences - small and big - that don't surface during the dating period. Everyone has to bend, and sometimes one has to bend a bit more. There should be no scorecard - that's just plain unhealthy.

Why would even think it is a good idea to go to war over how to clean? That's not worth it. Let me give you a silly personal example. I did the laundry, because he hated that job. Fine. I washed and folded his clothes. We agreed he was to put them away. I put them at the end of the bed, and he would ignore them...and at times sleep on them. I have to tell you that annoyed me to death when we were first married. It's a bad habit he has to this day - the man never puts his clothes away. I solved it by piling them up in his closet so I don't have to look at them...lol and get annoyed! He told me to leave them alone - in other words not put them away. The sight of them ticked me off at the beginning, and now I could care less - I close the closet door. lol its just NORMAL for him! It's NORMAL for us! He still doesn't want me to put them away, and so I just got used to that bad habit of his. My attitude towards his clean laundry changed, and its no skin off my nose today.

You need to pick your battles. Some battles aren't worth it, and you seem like most things are - because it has to be the way you envision it. That causes major resentment, and over something completely stupid and not worth your time. You don't need to go there.

No offense, but your acting like you are her father - not her husband. She has your number when it comes to respect. You don't have any for her. I would feel that too if I were her. My husband would call that the old fashion mindset - classic chauvinist. She isn't a child - she is adult. You aren't treating her as your wife - but as your adult child with benefits. Respect comes when actions, behaviors, and relationship dynamics are there to respect. You can always respect a person just due to their existence as a human being, and unless you stop coming across as daddy dearest you won't get much more than that.

It also sounds like she wants to love you, because she would have been gone if she didn't. You are pushing her away. You will regret that if you keep it up. You will lose her.

Stop this image in your head about what she should be, and accept and love the person you married. Molding to the relationship happens naturally. We all bob and change the whole entire marriage. If you try to shove her in a box you have imagined you will drive yourself nuts, and she will walk out feeling completely diminished. You will kill her spirit completely. What you are describing is a stepford wife - and that's unrealistic. You seem to have listed a number of things you paid for, and you seem to feel in return you must have this imaginary wife you have in mind. You can't buy a personality. It's not possible.

The way you describe the relationship is that you don't love her - you resent her. I bet she feels that too. It doesn't matter if you 'did' all these things for her. Look at what you aren't doing! Be a husband, and not a authoritarian father. People seem to feel that when the woman stops fighting over that attitude they won. They didn't. They just broken the person down, and they are going through the motions...because its not safe not too. The rest of the time they talked themselves into how this must be normal, and they should be happy...and they end up putting on a mask. It's a facade not a marriage - no matter how hard the try to hail it as the opposite. No human being wants to be treated that way.

Find a couple that truly enjoys each other's company, and their love for one another is as clear as day. Watch their dynamics. Their actions. Their shows of respect and love. It's an attitude more than HOW they do it -- action by action. Chances are very certain you don't hear what you envision for your marriage within their relationship. They will have their own struggles - like anyone else. Yet, this 'her place' and my demands stuff isn't there. I have a feeling she is just as lost as you are. She feels rejected, unloved, and not good enough. No one wants to marinate in that too long.

mmbattlestar said:

Okay, so here's the problem. My wife was a feminist when we started dating. She was extremely rude to me, derogatory, and I could barely be myself around her let alone say the smallest thing about a woman's place in the home or about almost ANYTHING. She would take offense to the smallest statements.

When we met she claimed to be Christian (Catholic to be more specific) so I had no idea she would turn out to be a feminist when we got closer. And she was barely a Christian at all and she drove me crazy.

Why was she not a Christian? Because she associated with Satan Worshipers, practiced Witch Craft, was heavily into tarot cards, was extremely disrespectful towards men, wrongfully judged a vast majority of society and thought that women were queens among men.

She was only "christian" in the sense that she was raised Catholic (apparently but her family aren't really Christian/Catholic at all either. I can definitely see where she had gotten the ) and that she believed in Jesus and regularly attended Church.

Despite all of this "baggage" I still accepted her. After all, I had my baggage and baggage of sins too. I loved her deeply and we dated for almost 2 happy years and we've been married almost seven months now.

I've just recently gotten my wife to see the some of the light of her evils and I'm slowly guiding her down the right path. She's dropped out of University, she's been trying to be more respectful towards me, She's starting to show people more compassion and love, I haven't seen her pick up a set of tarot cards in almost a year and a half, and we now have a mostly clean house after living together in filth for the last year or so. She also no longer considers herself a feminist and sees just how evil feminists really are.

I'm starting this topic to ask though, how can I instruct her further without making it seem like I'm just controlling her in a bad way? Like, eventually I would like us to live more biblically and have her start treating me with respect. Eventually I would like her to allow me to control the finances, eventually I would like her to start raising our future children, how do I go about prompting her in the right direction while at the same time, treating her with the respect that I want to be given?

Has any women here gone through the same thing when they got married?

I ask her myself and she says that I don't really treat her with respect, and half of the time I seem angry with her when I try to teach her things like how to clean properly.

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There appears to be a trend on these boards where Christian men start threads condemning feminists.
Of all these sins you itemize about this woman you were dating you identify her as an ex-feminist in the thread title.

Why would it be a good thing for her to drop out of university? A higher education allows her to gain a career for herself and to ascend to the aspirations she has in whatever field of study she'd undertaken.

Furthermore, you had a lot more on your plate than her so called feminism. Witchcraft and Satanism and divination?
And she was supposedly Catholic?

The Bible of your faith tells you you're not suppose to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Catholic in name only when she's deep into the occult?

What exactly do you want in an ideal wife?

mmbattlestar said:

how do I go about prompting her in the right direction while at the same time, treating her with the respect that I want to be given?

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1. Do you yourself know the Gospel?
2. Do you know that you've been born again?
3. Have you clearly shared the Gospel with your wife?
4. Does she know that both repentance and faith in Christ are necessary?
5. Does she know that she has been born again?
6. Has she obeyed the Lord in believer's baptism?
7. Have you obeyed the Lord in believer's baptism?
8. Are you both in a local church and have fellowship with other Christians?

If you are satisfied that you both are in a right relationship with God, seek out a mature Christian brother/pastor/elder and ask him to disciple you both on a regular weekly basis. Within that discipleship, ask him to also do a study on Christian marriage and the roles of the husband and wife which are pleasing to the Lord.

When Scripture is the authority, and you both are submitted to the Lord, then there should be no problem in understanding who is the head of the home, and who is to be in submission, and who is to show the love of Christ.

Not to sound rude or anything but, there usually is a reason for that you know.

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Yeah. One guy, many accounts, looking to personally attack strong women because he's dateless, girlfriendless, and loathes strong women.

Because, she did consider herself a feminist when we were dating and no longer does.

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And how did you treat her when she was a feminist?

Like I said, it had nothing to do with her dropping out. She dropped out because she wanted to move in with me. I was supportive of her despite my own personal beliefs.

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Pre-marriage she moved in with you?

I did. I've stated multiple times that I acted hypocritical for my past actions. And, she called herself Catholic because in her own little world she was. She went to church, believed in Purgatory, Prayed, Believed in Jesus ...etc. So, in her mind she was Catholic.

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I wonder what her priest would have said about her Witchcraft, hanging with Satanists, and practicing divination?

Blondepudding said:

Catholic in name only when she's deep into the occult?
I wonder what her priest would have said about her Witchcraft, hanging with Satanists, and practicing divination?

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Probably a lot, but it's not like I walked into the church with a bullhorn and carrying a banner to announce it to the entire congregation, in both English and Spanish, for good measure.

However, my husband has asked me to appear and clear some things up, and I'll start with the fact that he's exaggerated in his memory exactly how much I told him I'd done. I can only plead guilty to the divination charge (which I did stop trying to do). I wasn't all that "deep into the occult", and really only knew about random bits of it for writing purposes. I have never known a Satanist personally (merely once thought that maybe they as a group aren't worth condemning if they don't actively worship THE devil), and as for witchcraft, I looked into it for about a month total (again, mostly just in case I wanted to write about unbelievers).

I haven't read the entire bible for myself, but recently I've been studying parts of it, and have made the decision to live as God wants me to, not as America and the Western World (which seems to heavily worship the Dollar as a false god, by the way…) wants me to live.

The second thing that many of the responders from the last 24 hours seem to be missing, because you're right that he didn't say it, is that I do NOT feel unloved.

From the start, I knew he loved me. And I knew I loved him back.

There was disrespect on both sides, and yeah, a lot of it on both sides was in revenge for perceived disrespect. It got to the point where his parents used to expect us to argue, and my sister blocked him on Facebook because of a major fight the two of them had about our arguments and their respective maturity levels.

Everyone keeps bringing up his critique of my cleaning skills… that was literally one fight two months ago, and he keeps using it as an example of an overblown and unnecessary fight. There were more, but I don't remember everything we've fought about. Mostly word choice, I guess, which is improving, in my perception.

Also, yes. We lived together before marriage. We're in the process of repenting now, but since we can't change the past, I don't think we need to be reminded that it was sinful. And don't some denominations here believe that a couple is married once they pledge themselves to one another? We did that much…

I failed at keeping this short, but since my husband has a tendency to write extremely long posts (part of what helped me notice him; we met on a message board), that was always going to be difficult. If people new to the thread don't want to spend forever on my post, you've already read the most important bits and can somewhat safely scroll to the end.

_ _ _ _

mmbattlestar said:

So, she wasn't taught the biblical way of being a woman. Outside of reading it in the bible and thinking it was ludicrous.
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Oh, and eventually when she did start doing her responsibilities she didn't do them right. And verbally attacked me for trying to help her do them right.
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I mean, in all senses I never should have stayed with her let alone married her. But, I didn't care I loved her and I lived/dealt with it.
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I for the most part, tried to support her decision to attend University even if I didn't agree with it or agree with why she attended in the first place (Her dad basically forced her). He also told her what major she could take so I felt like, she should have had the choice to attend and definitely, what major she wanted. Even if it was a "dead end major"(It wasn't it was Psychology and he forced her to take English) […] And just recently she's dropped her educational ambitions all together on her own. She realized how expensive it was and how much financial pressure it was putting on me and, didn't want to dig us deeper in the hole for major that she never even wanted.
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I know, I definitely have my own problems to take care of and, I've mostly been focusing too much on helping my wife and ignoring myself and my own problems. I realize now that maybe, I didn't treat her with the utmost respect and that you mostly are 100% correct. I felt at the time like, I did fulfill my biblical duties. But, maybe I didn't. I am deeply sorry.

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Sweetie:
The first is accurate. After being taught in school that patriarchy is backwards, it was hard to swallow that God commanded it in any form, and that it wasn't just St. Paul sticking it in for his own purposes. I'm still not sure where I stand on biblical inerrancy, but I used not to believe it at all, and now… leaning toward it.

Both of us need to learn speech patterns that don't imply annoyance with each other. I think we are improving, but I've told you before that I took issue with your instructions because I thought I heard implied insults. I can't barely speak to you sometimes without you assuming I'm being sarcastic, so that's why I say we both need to work on it.

Lol, thaaaaaanks. (the only sarcasm I'm going to use towards you)

*facepalm* No, my dad didn't force me, my high school brainwashed me (as it did to you, as you said, remember?) into thinking there was no future after high school besides college if you don't want to work fast food, and conveniently left out the massive amount of DEBT that they'd basically be tricking an 18-year-old who's been sheltered most of her life into taking on. Hey, it's good business for the Gov't and the loan companies, so I guess I can't fault them for preying on young adults (yaaay more sarcasm! ). "Financial Aid" my rear end… But I chose my own majors on my own, thank you very much; my dad encouraged me to go but gave me no other instructions, aside from breathing a sigh of relief when I switched from Psych to English (which he considered a more marketable skill…). I wouldn't say I've abandoned my educational ambitions, but rather accepted that I've already gotten as much out of higher education as I'd ever need in my dream job of novelist. But, if I ever have the chance to go back, and it wouldn't put our household in the hole financially for me to do so, I'm willing to consider it, as I'm sure you know.

Last, do you see your last point that I quoted there? THAT IS ACTUALLY WHAT MORE THAN HALF OF OUR ARGUMENTS WERE ABOUT. YES, you put me too high on your priorities and completely ignored yourself. You haven't mentioned to these people that you used to shut up and stay quiet and even hide in our room and cry because I wasn't listening to your side, but you REFUSED to share your experiences and opinions out of fear of verbal attacks from me (which I never meant to make, but I now realize that I did, nearly every time).

The largest disrespect I perceived from you was your opinion that I wanted to control you and didn't care about you or think about your side or think about you at all…. Seriously, I knew you loved me but at times I couldn't believe how evil you seemed to think I was. I didn't notice all the disrespect that I heaped on you, which influenced that perception, so I thought it was just you being stupid (sorry - describing the past only!) and, yes, I disrespected you more for thinking of me as heartless... That's a downward spiral if I've ever described one.

You weren't trying to control me; you just didn't want ME to control YOU. And I never wanted to control you either, so our recent improvements are actually a HUGE step up and make me much more comfortable. I hope they so far have been making you more comfortable too.

ValleyGal said:

From what I have read, this doesn't sound like a two-way relationship, it sounds like what you want is the only thing that matters, because I can't find one thing mentioning what she wants out of this relationship.

IMHO, you aren't fulfilling your duties to her as a husband. The husband is the head, but that does not mean he is the boss, or in charge. It means to love your wife as Christ loves the church, thus, putting her needs and herself before you, and I don't see that remotely from your post. What I would encourage you to do is stop pointing out her flaws and focus on what she is good at, encourage her, be there for her, and start working as a husband who she respects because she actually respects him, and not because he deserves it.

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To be honest, it's violently flip-flopped between him not respecting my needs and wants (for brief periods of time) and him quashing his own needs and wants because he thought I would never take them into account (for periods of time so long that I didn't realize until the end of each bout that he was doing it…. I'm often oblivious of things I shouldn't be, and I admitted this on my own before reforming my behavior). Our relationship is finally beginning to stabilize, and I believe he came here for advice because he wants to keep its new stability, rather than go back to the rollercoaster where he felt stepped on no matter what, and I never looked at our conversations from his point of view.

HannahT said:

You sound young, and have a naive way of looking at life. I was also icked out completely the way you said things.
[…]
She has your number when it comes to respect. You don't have any for her. […] It also sounds like she wants to love you, because she would have been gone if she didn't. You are pushing her away. You will regret that if you keep it up. You will lose her.
Stop this image in your head about what she should be, and accept and love the person you married. […] If you try to shove her in a box you have imagined you will drive yourself nuts, and she will walk out feeling completely diminished. You will kill her spirit completely.
[…]
People seem to feel that when the woman stops fighting over that attitude they won. They didn't. They just broken the person down, and they are going through the motions...because its not safe not too. The rest of the time they talked themselves into how this must be normal, and they should be happy...and they end up putting on a mask. It's a facade not a marriage - no matter how hard the try to hail it as the opposite. No human being wants to be treated that way.

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I truly believe he means well; thank you for trying to look past the ways he worded things.

Actually, I didn't respect him very much, and not because he didn't earn it. Sometimes he did, and I took his actions for granted and kept on playing videogames. Sometimes he disrespected me because of how I acted, and of course I yelled at him for it and verbally beat him up, while insisting he not do the same to himself. … My only defense is that I wasn't thinking at all. Moreover, he has had respect for me, even for most of the first way insisting that I have my way about everything, because he thought I demanded it, when my quick, unthinking reactions were the only things that supported his view.

Also, this particular man responds very badly to warnings like "you will lose her," so what would help is constructive advice instead of a harsh diagram of what you believe he thinks. He ain't shoving me in a box, and I kind of wish he was better at explaining what he wants.

We have finally gotten to a place where - and I fact checked this with my husband - we've gone a week without needlessly arguing. Maybe we just got sick of it, or maybe I've stopped responding to innocent questions with "I don't know! Go away!" (complete exaggeration! But I'm sure that's close to what he heard in his mind before). And what you describe about "when the woman stops fighting…" I should have noticed that I, the woman, was doing that to him, the man. And then I yelled at him to stand up for himself, as if that was well-advised at all.

I'm painting myself in a very ugly color here, and I feel like I am the one who has to emphasize that I do and always did love him. As stupid as it makes me sound, I didn't realize I wasn't showing it, that I was actually showing the opposite while thinking the truth. Now I do, and if anyone here still thinks he's being controlling of me, blame it on the fact that he had to cram nearly two years total of interactions (during friendship, dating, and marriage) into one post, and could have chosen better words to defend himself in the later few.

I bet he even forgot that he used to bend over backwards, lie down, and let me have "my way" when I couldn't have put what I even wanted into words. That's probably because he likes not having to do that anymore, and I want him to continue not having to.


CONCLUSION:

Setting aside the background and both of our quick tempers, the bottom line in my husband's OP was that we'd like advice to grow as a Christian couple, away from what we used to be. With a healthy dynamic instead of both feeling like we're choking each other out from a few repeated mistakes. With each other, instead of separately in the same house.

If anyone else feels like attacking him for his shortcomings, I'm going to encourage him not to read your words. If anyone else feels like attacking me for practicing divination? Dead horse. Attacking me for how I confess to having acted? Better, but still kind of mean.

However, most of you are offering advice for us to use as we proceed in our marriage, and that is greatly welcomed. Thank you to everyone who has responded.


EDIT:
Wait, one more thing.

3. My wife has read the bible before in most of it's entirety. But, I try to teach her little day by day, yes.

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Actually, no I haven't. I own a Bible, but I have read very little of it. I used to pay attention in Church, so I know some of the Gospels and other common Readings, but the entirety of the Bible? Attention span too small. -cough-

Edit 2: Aww, it cut out part of my post. Edited part of a sentence to make it make sense.

But, I felt like she could change and that we could work out our problems together and I was right. You see, despite what I had considered to be her flaws I felt like, she would change...

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That's where the biggest problem is. You can't change anyone but yourself. And marriage is such a huge step that it should never be done with someone who you want to change or who you think should change. Now that the deed is done, you need to learn to love your wife the way she is without any expectation that she will ever change. She will change - we all do, but you need to love and accept her the way she is, not for what she might become or what you can turn her into.

Not to sound rude or anything but, there usually is a reason for that you know.

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Yes. Misinformation.

Jesus was the first feminist. There is no command in the Bible for the woman that is different for the man; nor is there any command for the man that is different than for any woman. Every command to men is exactly the same as it is for women.

mmbattlestar said:

Okay, so here's the problem. My wife was a feminist when we started dating. She was extremely rude to me, derogatory, and I could barely be myself around her let alone say the smallest thing about a woman's place in the home or about almost ANYTHING. She would take offense to the smallest statements.

When we met she claimed to be Christian (Catholic to be more specific) so I had no idea she would turn out to be a feminist when we got closer. And she was barely a Christian at all and she drove me crazy.

Why was she not a Christian? Because she associated with Satan Worshipers, practiced Witch Craft, was heavily into tarot cards, was extremely disrespectful towards men, wrongfully judged a vast majority of society and thought that women were queens among men.

She was only "christian" in the sense that she was raised Catholic (apparently but her family aren't really Christian/Catholic at all either. I can definitely see where she had gotten the ) and that she believed in Jesus and regularly attended Church.

Despite all of this "baggage" I still accepted her. After all, I had my baggage and baggage of sins too. I loved her deeply and we dated for almost 2 happy years and we've been married almost seven months now.

I've just recently gotten my wife to see the some of the light of her evils and I'm slowly guiding her down the right path. She's dropped out of University, she's been trying to be more respectful towards me, She's starting to show people more compassion and love, I haven't seen her pick up a set of tarot cards in almost a year and a half, and we now have a mostly clean house after living together in filth for the last year or so. She also no longer considers herself a feminist and sees just how evil feminists really are.

I'm starting this topic to ask though, how can I instruct her further without making it seem like I'm just controlling her in a bad way? Like, eventually I would like us to live more biblically and have her start treating me with respect. Eventually I would like her to allow me to control the finances, eventually I would like her to start raising our future children, how do I go about prompting her in the right direction while at the same time, treating her with the respect that I want to be given?

Has any women here gone through the same thing when they got married?

I ask her myself and she says that I don't really treat her with respect, and half of the time I seem angry with her when I try to teach her things like how to clean properly.

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You are on the right track. Your title suggests that you're aware of your own insensitivity to her needs. Recognizing and admitting this is important. A next step is to ask God for wisdom James 1:5. You need this in order to understand her which is crucial to leading her as you ought 1 Peter 3:7. This lack of understanding is a large part of why we, as men, fumble when trying to help our wives. Not knowing why she does this or that, and not knowing how to help her can make us upset and short in our dealings with them Proverbs 14:29. Exercising much sensitivity to her needs will go a long way in helping a right response to your leadership Proverbs 16:21. She doesn't need someone bossing her around. She needs you to be like Christ; compassionate, and gentle; especially when a tense situation needs diffusing Proverbs 25:15.
Read the Bible and pray to God together on a daily basis. This is perhaps the most effective means of leadership you can provide her.

Having read both sides of the story now, I only want to add this:

- I believe you both love each other, and both want this marriage to work. That is an excellent start.
- I think you should put intense effort into learning to communicate better. It sounds like a lot of issues could have been solved much quicker and with less pain, if you were able to communicate better.
- You need to figure out for yourselves what you want your roles to be in your marriage. (As opposed to what a generic man and woman's roles are). Forget society. Forget customs. Take the Bible as your guideline, but make sure you get the full picture (IMO the full picture is actually a lot smaller and less detailed that many people make it out to be!). Then figure it out for yourselves. Every marriage is different, because every couple come with their own sets of strengths and weaknesses, their own hopes and desires.
- You are partners in your marriage - learn to function like a team. When something happens that threaten your relationship (and it will - often!) don't let it divide you! Sit down together, leaving both your egos outside, and figure out a solution together. Accept that you will shape each other, but don't try to change each other. And the key for my husband and me - It's never about WHO is right - it's always about WHAT is right. What is right is rarely exactly what one person thought at the beginning of the "argument" - it's usually somewhere in the middle. (This is why it is absolutely crucial to leave your egos outside when you are trying to figure out a solution!)

I am a feminist. I have multiple degrees. I've owned my own company, been in charge of multi-million dollar projects. I've also been married almost 20 years to a man who adores me. We have an egalitarian relationship. He brought his strengths and weaknesses into our marriage and so did I. The first few years were rough...we were older (mid-30's) and had been on our own for a long time before marrying. He likes doing housework, has an incredible ability to organize anything and everything, when I am faced with a mess (like moving), I want to sit in a corner, suck my thumb and cry. I am better at managing finances, cooking and laundry. I also do all the car repairs because I enjoy it. It works for us and has for a long time.
We couldn't have children so we fostered, got involved in the community, worked as a team.

It seems that men start screaming about feminism when faced with an intelligent, strong woman. I grew up as the only girl, with 4 brothers. I learned to be strong from them. I am not some "she-woman man-hater". 90% of my friends are men....sports, cars, racing...those are MY hobbies. If you have an issue with a strong, independent woman, then go look in the mirror for the root of the problem.