The Partial Preterist Believers Safe House

random person said:

Yeah, because they said the resurrection was already past way back before Paul even composed his letter. And that letter was written pre 70 AD.

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so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

When He does appear, every eye will see Him.

All the tribes of the earth will mourn.

He will put an end to all rule and power, as all the kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdom of our Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:24

This event is the Day of the Lord.


He will come a second time at the end of the age, to Gather His people at the resurrection of the dead.



30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:30-31


This is a reference to Zechariah's prophecy about the day of the Lord.




1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.

2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.

4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.

6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish.

The Olivet discourse is Jesus teaching about Zechariah's prophecy; Zechariah 14

vs 2 - I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Luke 21:20



vs 6 - That there will be no light... - the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; Matt 24:29

vs 5 -Then you shall flee through My mountain valley...; those who are in Judea flee to the mountains... Luke 21:21

vs 5 - the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You... - they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:30-31



Jesus will come and appear a second time, at the end of the age, with His saints and destroy the wicked.


The Olivet Discourse has absolutely nothing to do with 70 AD. Zero!


JLB

JLB777 said:

Yes I did that quite thoroughly, which is why you have no scripture to prove that the saints in heaven, that return with Jesus, are not among those who came out of their tombs when He was resurrected.

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Again, the onus is not on me to prove a negative.
Show us the scripture that teaches those "resuscitated" saints were translated in their physical bodies into Heaven at the time Christ ascended, as you claim.

The saints who came out of the tombs when Jesus was resurrected, are now in heaven,

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I believe this is true. but there is noting in scripture to indicate this happened BEFORE they, like Lazarus, died physically a second time.

You have not shown otherwise. You only offer assumption and speculation.

parousia70 said:

Again, the onus is not on me to prove a negative.
Show us the scripture that teaches those "resuscitated" saints were translated in their physical bodies into Heaven at the time Christ ascended, as you claim.



I believe this is true. but there is noting in scripture to indicate this happened BEFORE they, like Lazarus, died physically a second time.

You have not shown otherwise. You only offer assumption and speculation.

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8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
Ephesians 4:8

Simply put, those Saints that were preserved alive in Paradise, or Abraham's Bosom were led into heaven because now their sins were removed and not just covered over.


Sorry your "non-response" that states your opinion is quite the norm with the preterist camp.




JLB

JLB777 said:

8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
Ephesians 4:8

Simply put, those Saints that were preserved alive in Paradise, or Abraham's Bosom were led into heaven because now their sins were removed and not just covered over.


Sorry your "non-response" that states your opinion is quite the norm with the preterist camp.




JLB

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I've already addressed why your interpretation of "He led Captivity captive" is incorrect, and you have thusfar offered no rebuttal for it.

What else ya got?

parousia70 said:

I've already addressed why your interpretation of "He led Captivity captive" is incorrect, and you have thusfar offered no rebuttal for it.

What else ya got?

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You just keep posting your opinion with no scripture and think you have refuted something?

Paradise where Abraham and the OT saints were kept until Christ was revealed to them and raised from the dead, is now in heaven above, and not in the heart of the earth.


12 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2 Corinthians 12:1-4

That is what the term "captivity" refers to in Ephesians 4, the place where those OT saints were "kept" until they were raised to heaven when Jesus was resurrected from the dead.

He led "captivity"...

Paradise was in the heart of the earth before, now it's in the third heaven where God dwells.


JLB

God's Promises Fulfilled - A Preterist Rap

JLB777 said:

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

When He does appear, every eye will see Him.

All the tribes of the earth will mourn.

He will put an end to all rule and power, as all the kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdom of our Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:24

This event is the Day of the Lord.


He will come a second time at the end of the age, to Gather His people at the resurrection of the dead.



30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:30-31


This is a reference to Zechariah's prophecy about the day of the Lord.




1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.

2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.

4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.

6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish.

The Olivet discourse is Jesus teaching about Zechariah's prophecy; Zechariah 14

vs 2 - I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Luke 21:20



vs 6 - That there will be no light... - the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; Matt 24:29

vs 5 -Then you shall flee through My mountain valley...; those who are in Judea flee to the mountains... Luke 21:21

vs 5 - the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You... - they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:30-31



Jesus will come and appear a second time, at the end of the age, with His saints and destroy the wicked.


The Olivet Discourse has absolutely nothing to do with 70 AD. Zero!


JLB

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It has everything to do with A.D. 70.

The Greek word used for "see" in Matthew 24:30 is horao [#3708], it is a metaphoric word meaning to perceive, discern, to see with the mind's eye. In other words, when the destruction of Jerusalem occurred, the Jews would know that the Day of the Lord arrived, and that Jesus had come down in the clouds in judgment.

The Greek word used for "age" in Matthew 24:3 is aion [#165], it simply means age, according to long standing Jewish tradition, the Jews believed in two ages, the Jewish age and the Messianic age, one begins when the other ends. The Jewish age ended in A.D. 70.

The Greek word used for "angels" in Matthew 24:31 is aggelos [#32], it is used in many different ways,

Send Angels MT 24:31

1. Angel means messenger
   • Hebrew: "malak" [#4397]: angel(s)-110x; messenger(s)-100x; ambassadors-2x; envoys-1x
   • Greek: "Aggellos" [#32]: Angel(s)-89x; messenger(s)-7x
2. Usage of angel in NT:
   • Created beings superior to man: Ax 23:8; Heb 1:7,14
   • John the baptist: Mt 11:10; Mk 1:2; Lk 7:27
   • Messengers of John the Baptist: Lk 7:24
   • Messengers of Christ: Lk 9:52
   • Jewish spies: Jas 2:25

Check out how the Hebrew word for "angel" malak [#4397] is used in Haggai 1:13; Malachi 2:7; Malachi 3:1, only it is translated as "messenger" in these three passages and guess what those angels are human. So the angels in Matthew 24:31 are not celestial beings but the messengers of the Gospel.

The Greek word used for "shall gather together" in Matthew 24:31 is episunago [#1996], it simply means to "assemble together". Do you know where else the Greek word episunago occurs? In Hebrews 10:25!

Read my sig, the King James Version has omitted the Greek word "mello" 106 times.

Both the NIV & NAS omit "mello" 85 times.

Do our English translators have an agenda? Is it premillennial and futurist in nature? I believe so.

I give two sample verses in my sig where "mello" was omitted. Due to limited characters afforded my sig, I couldn't list more.

Back on the subject of Matthew 24:31:

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. - KJV

The proper rendering of this verse is:

And he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall assemble together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ("aggelos" & "episunago" properly translated)

It changes verse 31 from an end of the world scenario to a post-DoJ Great Commission prophecy. It is the Great Commission not the literal dissolution of heaven and earth.

random person said:

It has everything to do with A.D. 70.

The Greek word used for "see" in Matthew 24:30 is horao [#3708], it is a metaphoric word meaning to perceive, discern, to see with the mind's eye. In other words, when the destruction of Jerusalem occurred, the Jews would know that the Day of the Lord arrived, and that Jesus had come down in the clouds in judgment.

The Greek word used for "age" in Matthew 24:3 is aion [#165], it simply means age, according to long standing Jewish tradition, the Jews believed in two ages, the Jewish age and the Messianic age, one begins when the other ends. The Jewish age ended in A.D. 70.

The Greek word used for "angels" in Matthew 24:31 is aggelos [#32], it is used in many different ways,

Send Angels MT 24:31

1. Angel means messenger
   • Hebrew: "malak" [#4397]: angel(s)-110x; messenger(s)-100x; ambassadors-2x; envoys-1x
   • Greek: "Aggellos" [#32]: Angel(s)-89x; messenger(s)-7x
2. Usage of angel in NT:
   • Created beings superior to man: Ax 23:8; Heb 1:7,14
   • John the baptist: Mt 11:10; Mk 1:2; Lk 7:27
   • Messengers of John the Baptist: Lk 7:24
   • Messengers of Christ: Lk 9:52
   • Jewish spies: Jas 2:25

Check out how the Hebrew word for "angel" malak [#4397] is used in Haggai 1:13; Malachi 2:7; Malachi 3:1, only it is translated as "messenger" in these three passages and guess what those angels are human. So the angels in Matthew 24:31 are not celestial beings but the messengers of the Gospel.

The Greek word used for "shall gather together" in Matthew 24:31 is episunago [#1996], it simply means to "assemble together". Do you know where else the Greek word episunago occurs? In Hebrews 10:25!

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The Day of the Lord is clearly described in Zechariah 14 -

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You...

random person said:

Read my sig, the King James Version has omitted the Greek word "mello" 106 times.

Both the NIV & NAS omit "mello" 85 times.

Do our English translators have an agenda? Is it premillennial and futurist in nature? I believe so.

I give two sample verses in my sig where "mello" was omitted. Due to limited characters afforded my sig, I couldn't list more.

Back on the subject of Matthew 24:31:

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. - KJV

The proper rendering of this verse is:

And he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall assemble together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ("aggelos" & "episunago" properly translated)

It changes verse 31 from an end of the world scenario to a post-DoJ Great Commission prophecy. It is the Great Commission not the literal dissolution of heaven and earth.

Click to expand...

I see no change in the timing of the Lord's return in your example.


Jesus WILL COME AT THE END OF THE AGE.

What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age. Matthew 24:3


JLB

JLB777 said:

I see no change in the timing of the Lord's return in your example.


Jesus WILL COME AT THE END OF THE AGE.

What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age. Matthew 24:3


JLB

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And Jewish tradition held in biblical times is that there are two exclusive ages. The Jewish Age and the Messianic Age.

random person said:

And Jewish tradition held in biblical times is that there are two exclusive ages. The Jewish Age and the Messianic Age.

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Jewish Tradition?

Here is what the Lord Himself taught us about this age, and the age to come.


34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

This age, which began with Adam, is marked by people marrying and given in marriage, as well as people dying, because they have a mortal body.

The next age, which the age to come is defined by the physical resurrection of the dead, whereby people will no longer marry, nor will they die anymore, as they have immortal bodies that will never die and shines like the sun.

40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:40-43

In the age to come, there will be no more wicked lawless people, as they will have been removed.


JLB

JLB777 said:

This age, which began with Adam....

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Rather, The Old Testament age was the "this Age" of Scripture.
The "end of the age" means the end of the Old Testament Age.

The apostles lived in the last days of the end of that age:

This [outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost] is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel: "...in the last days, saith the Lord, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh' (Acts 2:16-17)

In these last days [he] has spoken to us in His Son (Hebrews 1:2)

Now...at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested (Heb 9:26)

Rust...will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!... the coming of the Lord is near....behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. (James 5:3,8-9)

[Jesus was] manifested in the last times for you (1 Peter 1:20)

These things...were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. (1 Cor 10:11)

The end of all things is at hand... is time for judgment to begin (1 Peter 4:7,17)
The end of the age was back then, and it meant the end of the Old Testament age. Jesus and the apostles were raised up by God at the end of the Mosaic Covenant era. They themselves had the mission to deliver its full end and usher in the eternal New Covenant era. They did.

JLB777 said:

You just keep posting your opinion with no scripture and think you have refuted something?

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Rather my post clearly referenced actual scripture that you apparently overlooked somehow.
I'll post it again, maybe i should put the scripture references in BOLD this time so you see them, and perhaps you use the actual scriptures i reference and show us why they don't mean what I contend? (probably not, but I'm ever the optimist)

The "captivity" that a triumphant King would "lead captive" was his bound enemies. The victorious king would lead a parade through town, marching his bound prisoners in a public display to shame them and gloat over them (Col 1:15 uses this concept too). That is why bible expositors discussing Eph 4:8 often point to the broken dominion of the enemies Satan (1 Jn 3:8; Col 1:15), sin (Rom 6:14), and death (Rom 6:9) -- these were the "captivity" that Christ led away as his captives. So the "captivity" one leads captive are one's enemies who have been triumphed over. This notion is also the sense of Psalm 68:17-18 concerning the exodus, Sinai and the defeat of the pagans in the promised land.

Additionally, in the spectacle of the public parade the King receives gifts in homage (Ps 68:18,29,31) and he generously distributes the spoils of war to his own citizens (Ps 68:19). With Christ, he distributes the spoils of his war unto the Church in the form of the charismata given unto mankind, making them Chosen apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists, and teachers with him (Eph 4:8,11)

It's one thing to dispute my interpretation of the scriptures I cite, but to read the above and claim it's merely me stating my opinion with no scripture, is simply, blatantly dishonest.

As people of truth and honesty, I believe you can do better than that JLB.

parousia70 said:

The "captivity" that a triumphant King would "lead captive" was his bound enemies. The victorious king would lead a parade through town, marching his bound prisoners in a public display to shame them and gloat over them (Col 1:15 uses this concept too). That is why bible expositors discussing Eph 4:8 often point to the broken dominion of the enemies Satan (1 Jn 3:8; Col 1:15), sin (Rom 6:14), and death (Rom 6:9) -- these were the "captivity" that Christ led away as his captives. So the "captivity" one leads captive are one's enemies who have been triumphed over. This notion is also the sense of Psalm 68:17-18 concerning the exodus, Sinai and the defeat of the pagans in the promised land.

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Our King lead those "captives" who were saints of the OT preserved in Paradise, that is to say Abraham's Bosom, up to heaven, from the heart of the earth. These saints were kept in the heart of the earth until Jesus Christ descended down, and revealed Himself to them who were looking forward to Him, as we look backward to Him.

They could not go into heaven until their sins were removed by faith in Christ, as the blood of bulls and goats could only atone for sin, and not remove it.

8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
Ephesians 4:8-10


The gifts He gave were; apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, to the Church for their sake...

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16


He led the OT saints into heaven with Him to remain there until the Day when He would return with His saints at the resurrection.

Unless you can prove from the scriptures that the Old Testament saints are not in heaven, then it's case closed.



JLB


JLB

parousia70 said:

Rather, The Old Testament age was the "this Age" of Scripture.
The "end of the age" means the end of the Old Testament Age.

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You are teaching a doctrine of man, that was designed to "prop up" a man made false doctrine, that teaches the resurrection is past.

And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18

As long as you people still marry and are given in marriage and they still die, then it is still this age.

34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage.
35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:34-36


those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore...

This is the very reason why so many consider preterism to be heresy, because they claim the resurrection occured in 70 AD!


This age which began with Adam, will end WHEN Jesus returns on the LAST DAY.

That's why it's called the last Day, because it's the last Day of THIS AGE!


JLB

JLB777 said:

You are teaching a doctrine of man, that was designed to "prop up" a man made false doctrine, that teaches the resurrection is past.

And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18

As long as you people still marry and are given in marriage and they still die, then it is still this age.

34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage.
35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:34-36


those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore...

This is the very reason why so many consider preterism to be heresy, because they claim the resurrection occured in 70 AD!


This age which began with Adam, will end WHEN Jesus returns on the LAST DAY.

That's why it's called the last Day, because it's the last Day of THIS AGE!


JLB

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The Hymenean Heresy is a bogus accusation, because Preterists believe the Resurrection occurred in A.D. 70, whereas Hymeneaus was proclaiming a resurrection long before the A.D. 70 event and Paul was addressing this in his letter.

Here is a strange thing, the Thessalonians were believing Hymeneaus. Why would they believe Hymeneaus if the Resurrection was a literal bodily fulfilment at the end of time or end of the world?

Couldn't they see from the physical evidences, to disprove Hymeneaus, yet they did believe him. Why?

random person said:

The Hymenean Heresy is a bogus accusation, because Preterists believe the Resurrection occurred in A.D. 70, whereas Hymeneaus was proclaiming a resurrection long before the A.D. 70 event and Paul was addressing this in his letter.

Here is a strange thing, the Thessalonians were believing Hymeneaus. Why would they believe Hymeneaus if the Resurrection was a literal bodily fulfilment at the end of time or end of the world?

Couldn't they see from the physical evidences, to disprove Hymeneaus, yet they did believe him. Why?

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If you believe the resurrection of the dead is past then you believe Heresy.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at His coming, whereby those who are alive and remain will be caught up with them.

When He comes every eye will see Him, as He will destroy the wicked.

Unless you have physically died the you have not been resurrected from the dead.

When the resurrection of the dead takes place we will have immortal bodies that will never die.

Saying the resurrection is past is just as much a Heresy today than any other day.

Jesus only comes a second time, as he has appeared once in the flesh.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Hebrews 9:28

The resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur for all at the same time, at His Coming.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23

All shall be made alive... At His Coming.


JLB

JLB777 said:

If you believe the resurrection of the dead is past then you believe Heresy.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at His coming, whereby those who are alive and remain will be caught up with them.

When He comes every eye will see Him, as He will destroy the wicked.

Unless you have physically died the you have not been resurrected from the dead.

When the resurrection of the dead takes place we will have immortal bodies that will never die.

Saying the resurrection is past is just as much a Heresy today than any other day.

Jesus only comes a second time, as he has appeared once in the flesh.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Hebrews 9:28

The resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur for all at the same time, at His Coming.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23

All shall be made alive... At His Coming.


JLB

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You are forgetting, when Hymeneaus was preaching this resurrection, A.D. 70 was still yet future for Paul. In fact, he would be martyred before this event occurred.

random person said:

You are forgetting, when Hymeneaus was preaching this resurrection, A.D. 70 was still yet future for Paul. In fact, he would be martyred before this event occurred.

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I'm not forgetting anything.

70AD has nothing to do with anything. Nothing!

Jesus Christ will come and appear to all a SECOND TIME at the end of the age on the last day of this age.

All the dead in Christ, and all those who are His will all be physically resurrected from the dead, as Jesus is our example of what this means.

Then after the dead in Christ are caught up in the air with Him, those who are alive and remain will also be caught TOGETHER with the resurrected ones and physically be with Jesus as He is making His descent to the mount of Olives. Zechariah 14.

eans precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Saying the resurrection is past in 2015 or AD 60 is Heresy.

Every eye will see Him... When He comes.


JLB