#WhitePeople: MTV Premieres Documentary on White Privilege in America

trunks2k · Jul 27, 2015

Red Fox said:
It seems to be the consensus in this thread that some people feel they have an advantage for being white while others feel that they do not.

I'm white and certainly agree that my life is a lot easier because of it. I'm less likely to have a resume rejected because my name sounds "black", I am less likely to be suspected of being a shop lifter or waste of time by employees at a store, I am less likely to frighten the random passer-by on the street, I am less likely to draw attention of the police and if I do I am less likely to be charged with a serious crime and if I am, I am less likely to be convicted, and if I am, I am likely to receive a lighter sentence. Popular culture is disproportionately aimed at me, etc.

I personally like the video game mode analogy. Being a straight*, non-disabled, white male in the US is like setting a video game on "easy" mode. This doesn't mean that the game itself is easy for the player in question, just that it's easier than the other modes. The player on easy mode may really stink at the game or otherwise have some really bad luck and still fail, and the player on super hard advanced mode may be awesome at it and win the game. Still doesn't take away the fact that all other things being equal, the player on easy mode was on easy mode.

*I'm not straight, but am in a heterosexual marriage, so except to people who know me really well, I'm "straight".

Red Fox · Jul 27, 2015

Let's get back on topic of the original post please. There's a bit of derailing going on, such as discussing pow wows and other topics.

Red Fox · Jul 27, 2015

SteveB28 said:
Again, no one is expecting you to apologise or to feel ashamed. It is simply a matter of recognition - recognising that, as a group, there are inbuilt advantages that white people enjoy.

That's really all it is.

Exactly. I think this is especially true when we consider history, particularly here in the United States.

And I say particularly here in the United States because I live in this country and this is where I have had my experiences.

Red Fox · Jul 27, 2015

trunks2k said:
I'm white and certainly agree that my life is a lot easier because of it. I'm less likely to have a resume rejected because my name sounds "black", I am less likely to be suspected of being a shop lifter or waste of time by employees at a store, I am less likely to frighten the random passer-by on the street, I am less likely to draw attention of the police and if I do I am less likely to be charged with a serious crime and if I am, I am less likely to be convicted, and if I am, I am likely to receive a lighter sentence. Popular culture is disproportionately aimed at me, etc.

I personally like the video game mode analogy. Being a straight*, non-disabled, white male in the US is like setting a video game on "easy" mode. This doesn't mean that the game itself is easy for the player in question, just that it's easier than the other modes. The player on easy mode may really stink at the game or otherwise have some really bad luck and still fail, and the player on super hard advanced mode may be awesome at it and win the game. Still doesn't take away the fact that all other things being equal, the player on easy mode was on easy mode.

*I'm not straight, but am in a heterosexual marriage, so except to people who know me really well, I'm "straight".

trunks2k, thank you for sharing your opinions and insight on this issue. I appreciate your input.

WalksWithChrist · Jul 27, 2015

Red Fox said:
I saw this trending on Facebook. I haven't watched the video in full yet, but I'm about to. In fairness, please watch the video too.

Maybe we can have a civil discussion about the content without digressing into utter chaos where the thread will have to be closed.

Directed by filmmaker and journalist Jose Antonio Vargas, the film follows conversations with White people about their race and privilege. It is part of MTV's "Look Different" campaign. Ready for eye-opening perspectives on race? Watch the entire “White People” documentary now. - Statement by MTV on Facebook.

I just watched the video.
*whew*
That was emotional to watch! I could write so much about this, I'll try not to get too lengthy.

I was really glad to see so many young people with a rational view of white privilege and race. I wish I saw more of that when I was growing up. I really enjoyed the segment at Crazy Horse high school. I had no idea a school on a reservation (was it a reservation school?) would have mostly white teachers. I figured that sort of thing was in the past. But the teachers and students seemed to have good relations and feelings towards each other, so that is encouraging.
I grew up in Memphis and went to majority black schools. I saw a lot of racism from whites in my family and blacks I went to school with and became friends with. I do have to be reminded sometimes that not everyone had my upbringing. Seeing people that grow up in majority white areas felt a bit unusual for me. And I'm white. And if I didn't tell you, you'd never know I was also Cherokee. So to hear people say they just know white people took me by surprise a bit. I'll never forget my mother telling me she never even saw a black person until she was an adult. So I see such segregation as, again, in the past. But many still live with mostly one race.

It's taken a long time, but I have accepted that I do benefit from being, and appearing, white. I've never been dragged from my car by police, beaten, jailed and killed. Yet that is happening to black people right now. I've never once had a cop be much less that friendly to me. Maybe once or twice one would be somewhat aggravated, but nothing out of the range of normal. That alone, the fact that I don't have to worry about the police, gives me a huge advantage in life. And I now try not to take that for granted because so many people have no idea what it's like to have the police *not* give them a hard time.

Personally, I saw quite a bit of racism growing up. But I somehow didn't perpetuate very much of it. I passively made the decision not to mimic the racism I saw around me. And now that I'm grown and able to analyze it all, I realize I made a fantastically good choice. Otherwise it would be a lot harder if I had to get over a lifetime of racial attitudes and prejudices.

Thanks for posting the video. It was most enlightening.

Red Fox · Jul 27, 2015

WalksWithChrist said:
I just watched the video.
*whew*
That was emotional to watch! I could write so much about this, I'll try not to get too lengthy.

I was really glad to see so many young people with a rational view of white privilege and race. I wish I saw more of that when I was growing up. I really enjoyed the segment at Crazy Horse high school. I had no idea a school on a reservation (was it a reservation school?) would have mostly white teachers. I figured that sort of thing was in the past. But the teachers and students seemed to have good relations and feelings towards each other, so that is encouraging.
I grew up in Memphis and went to majority black schools. I saw a lot of racism from whites in my family and blacks I went to school with and became friends with. I do have to be reminded sometimes that not everyone had my upbringing. Seeing people that grow up in majority white areas felt a bit unusual for me. And I'm white. And if I didn't tell you, you'd never know I was also Cherokee. So to hear people say they just know white people took me by surprise a bit. I'll never forget my mother telling me she never even saw a black person until she was an adult. So I see such segregation as, again, in the past. But many still live with mostly one race.

It's taken a long time, but I have accepted that I do benefit from being, and appearing, white. I've never been dragged from my car by police, beaten, jailed and killed. Yet that is happening to black people right now. I've never once had a cop be much less that friendly to me. Maybe once or twice one would be somewhat aggravated, but nothing out of the range of normal. That alone, the fact that I don't have to worry about the police, gives me a huge advantage in life. And I now try not to take that for granted because so many people have no idea what it's like to have the police *not* give them a hard time.

Personally, I saw quite a bit of racism growing up. But I somehow didn't perpetuate very much of it. I passively made the decision not to mimic the racism I saw around me. And now that I'm grown and able to analyze it all, I realize I made a fantastically good choice. Otherwise it would be a lot harder if I had to get over a lifetime of racial attitudes and prejudices.

Thanks for posting the video. It was most enlightening.

O'siyo my friend! Before I go any further, I have to say it, NOT ANOTHER WHITE PERSON CLAIMING TO BE CHEROKEE!!! And please don't tell me that your great-great (great great) grandmother was a Cherokee princess on your mother's side (twice or three times removed). Please spare me the pain of having to hear that sob story one more time. Just kidding!!! And you know I am. I always knew that was something extraordinarily special about you, my friend. It's the Cherokee! Ha ha ha.... Anyway, kidding aside, thank you for sharing your opinions and insight, my good friend. I appreciate it very much. And for the record, there's no such thing as an Indian princess.... Just saying....

WalksWithChrist · Jul 27, 2015

Red Fox said:
O'siyo my friend! Before I go any further, I have to say it, NOT ANOTHER WHITE PERSON CLAIMING TO BE CHEROKEE!!! And please don't tell me that your great-great (great great) grandmother was a Cherokee princess on your mother's side (twice or three times removed). Please spare me the pain of having to hear that sob story one more time. Just kidding!!! And you know I am. I always knew that was something extraordinarily special about you, my friend. It's the Cherokee! Ha ha ha.... Anyway, kidding aside, thank you for sharing your opinions and insight, my good friend. I appreciate it very much. And for the record, there's no such thing as an Indian princess.... Just saying....

But...but...I have proof!

And it's on my FATHER'S side!
*chuckles*

Red Fox · Jul 27, 2015

WalksWithChrist said:
But...but...I have proof! And it's on my FATHER'S side!
*chuckles*

Ha ha ha... Proof huh? Yeah right, show me your papers! Ha ha ha... Thanks again for sharing your insight. It is very much appreciated, my friend.

Hank · Jul 27, 2015

SteveB28 said:
Again, no one is expecting you to apologise or to feel ashamed. It is simply a matter of recognition - recognising that, as a group, there are inbuilt advantages that white people enjoy.

That's really all it is.

That quote of mine was before I watched the entire video.

The video claims or tries to make a claim for white privileges, maybe it's semantics only but I fail to see it.

I lived in Cali, San Fran until the earth quake. Prejudice exists (existed) and minorities can loose out on some of the opportunities. In other words, if/when prejudice is gone or ignored, in the USA, land of the free, the best man wins. The moment I agree to white privileges, I also need to agree to prejudice that facilitates the privileges, hinted in the video, in the first place. That in turn places me on the defensive.

SuperCloud · Jul 27, 2015

Chicken Little said:
we don't live in milwaukee or detroit .. certainly isn't all of the Usa.
and no the money doesn't stay in it's own neighborhoods.
you are cherry picking. my only point is anyone who wants to work can and hard work and good attitude will be rewarded.

Thanks for letting me know that, Chicken Little, I'll be sure to put that on my gravestone. ^_^

WalksWithChrist · Jul 29, 2015

Hank said:
That quote of mine was before I watched the entire video.

The video claims or tries to make a claim for white privileges, maybe it's semantics only but I fail to see it.

I lived in Cali, San Fran until the earth quake. Prejudice exists (existed) and minorities can loose out on some of the opportunities. In other words, if/when prejudice is gone or ignored, in the USA, land of the free, the best man wins. The moment I agree to white privileges, I also need to agree to prejudice that facilitates the privileges, hinted in the video, in the first place. That in turn places me on the defensive.

I may be misreading your post here.

But white privilege isn't something you have to agree/disagree with. It's something that's out there. Now you can acknowledge it or not. But agreement doesn't affect it being real or being in effect. Or affect it applying to you if you happen to be white.

Dave-W · Jul 29, 2015

Hank said:
The video claims or tries to make a claim for white privileges, maybe it's semantics only but I fail to see it.

prejudice and bias are not easy to see unless you are on the negative receiving end of it.

Hank · Jul 29, 2015

WalksWithChrist said:
I may be misreading your post here.

But white privilege isn't something you have to agree/disagree with. It's something that's out there. Now you can acknowledge it or not. But agreement doesn't affect it being real or being in effect. Or affect it applying to you if you happen to be white.

Then it's a language thing. Privilege, as per Oxford World English, is something exclusive to a group. If this is something real in the US, and I only lived there for four years, then I missed it. And the video did not show it either, except using typical CNN (US media) type drama to hammer in that idea.
Either way, let's agree to disagree.

Red Fox · Jul 29, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
prejudice and bias are not easy to see unless you are on the negative receiving end of it.

I think that is sometimes true.

Hank · Jul 29, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
prejudice and bias are not easy to see unless you are on the negative receiving end of it.

That is what I was getting at. White privilege exist only as far as prejudice is permitted to exist.

Dave-W · Jul 29, 2015

Hank said:
That is what I was getting at. White privilege exist only as far as prejudice is permitted to exist.

"White privilege" is as much racial bias as is antisemitism or KKK style hatred of blacks.

Can I hear a resounding chorus of "Seig Heil!?" It is that same old "Master Race" idea but toned down to the point that many cannot see it.

WalksWithChrist · Jul 29, 2015

Hank said:
Then it's a language thing. Privilege, as per Oxford World English, is something exclusive to a group. If this is something real in the US, and I only lived there for four years, then I missed it. And the video did not show it either, except using typical CNN (US media) type drama to hammer in that idea.
Either way, let's agree to disagree.

One thing the video did bring up is how black people are assumed to be "ghetto". I'm a white guy and I've had the "privilege" of never once been referred to as ghetto just because of my race. One girl broke into tears when the term was brought up. That indicates trauma in her past. Something that I know nothing about as a white person.
Outside what the video covered (or not very deeply...if at all, I really don't remember now) is treatment by police. I've seen many instances, just this month, of blacks being arrested for very minor offenses. I've been pulled over so many times and it's always polite, even if I do get a ticket. You can be a black celebrity or even a black cop and get treated terribly by police. So, yes. It's real. And yeah, you must have missed it. lol
That's no insult to you. I lived most of my life not aware of anything like white privilege. It took time for me to investigate it and decide, based on lots of info, that it's a real thing.

WalksWithChrist · Jul 29, 2015

Hank said:
That is what I was getting at. White privilege exist only as far as prejudice is permitted to exist.

I agree with what Dave said. It is indeed hard to see for some...like me. I'm glad we're all discussing this.

Red Fox · Jul 29, 2015

WalksWithChrist said:
Outside what the video covered (or not very deeply...if at all, I really don't remember now) is treatment by police. I've seen many instances, just this month, of blacks being arrested for very minor offenses.

It isn't just black people as an minority who are mistreated, brutalized or killed by police. In fact, Native Americans are killed by police at a higher rate than any other ethnic group (Native Lives Matter: Police Killing Native Americans At Astounding Rate) and there are also the following news reports about Native Americans dying at the hands of police officers while in custody and a public report released by the Lakota Law Project on the same issue of Native Americans being brutalized by the police.

Native Lives Matter - A Report by the Lakota Law Project

Sarah Lee Circle Bear Died While in Police Custody; Family Seeks Justice

Native American Activist Found Dead In Jail Cell After Traffic Fine Arrest

So, will someone please show me the nationwide coverage or the public outrage of Native Americans being brutalized by police or dying at the hands of police officers?

Shodan · Jul 29, 2015

I watched the video, or rather, listened to it while walking the dog (yay, IPhones).

It was interesting, but I wouldn't agree that it established the existence of "white privilege", at least on the topics they mostly covered.
For instance, there was considerable discussion because some of the white people felt that there were no college scholarships for white people. Then the documentary producers mentioned some statistics that they purported showed that black people did not get very much by way of scholarships at all.

What the statistics didn't compare was apples and apples. The statistics did not show that a given group of students with identical GPAs and resumes who were white were getting the scholarships over the black students. Similarly, the producers mentioned in passing that minorities made up 38% of the student body but got 31% of the merit-based scholarships. (I think my memory of the figures is right - somebody correct me if I am wrong).
But if the scholarships are truly merit-based, then that says nothing about "white privilege" - it establishes "good-students-with-good-GPAs-and-strong-resumes privilege". Something that is merit-based is something you earn. Getting what you earned is not "privilege".

It was mentioned a couple of times in the documentary that they wanted people to be comfortable talking about race. It is my experience that this changes rapidly once it is black people who are becoming uncomfortable. IOW as long as we are talking about white privilege and Wounded Knee, everything is fine. But somehow race-norming and affirmative action and the fact that a large majority of black children in the US are born to unwed mothers - those topics don't come up.

Regards,
Shodan

#WhitePeople: MTV Premieres Documentary on White Privilege in America

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