Can The State Of Israel Be Destroyed!

Ranting, I'm not sure who you're talking to now with your last few points or what you're trying to say, but why don't you answer my two questions that I asked you?

"That's why 500 million Arabs cant take out 6 million Jews! . you better shake your brain and rethink>Its supernatural!"


Believe that is why ..... the Lord has brought a remnant part of Israel where He wants them to be .... for His purposes ... not theirs

.... and He is protecting them at this time, until He pressures the tiny nation for their turning [Jeremiah 30]

People who deny Him this truth are at risk .... don't second guess the Master and Creator of all things .... the God of Israel

ebedmelech said:

Here again, you're thinking because Israel continued with the Old Covenant, it means it was still being honored by God. It was not. Which brings it right back to Jesus instituting the New Covenant where he told 11 Jews to do in remembrance of Him!

Then we have Peter at Pentecost telling all those Jews there for the Old Covenant practice...it's Jesus. How do you miss that?

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I'm not missing anything. I realize the fact that Jesus became the sacrifice for sin and those who believed in His finished work would soon realize the fullness of the New Covenant kingdom age at His coming.

What you're missing is the last days of the Old Covenant age which ended at the judgment of Old Covenant Israel in AD 70. The reason Israel continued under the Old Covenant is that age could not end until judgment was complete.

Regarding Gal. 4:21-31 you wrote:

I acknowledge it properly as for what Paul is saying. Why is "present Jerusalem" in bondage?...because they still practice an ABOLISHED covenant. Paul tells us it was ABOLISHED at the cross...Ephesians 2:14-18, Colossians 2:14-19

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There's a difference here. You think the Old Covenant is continuing...but what you actually have is a stubborn Israel continuing the Old Covenant, when a New Covenant exist...that's why they're blind...and that's the point of the passage.

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You're continuing to miss Paul's point. The passage begins: Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

Paul was warning those who had been under the Mosaic Law and the bondage that came with being under the Old Covenant not to return. He transitions from the question of returning to the Law directly its association with the Old Covenant: Galatians 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar--

Notice the present tense: These ARE two covenants, the one from Mt. Sinai...Galatians 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children--

Old Covenant Israel was under the Mosaic Law (the covenant from Mt. Sinai) which resulted in continuing bondage under that covenant.

No. As much as you want to think that it is simply error to do so. Christ ended OC practice...that's why Christ IS THE END OF THE LAW to everyone who believes.

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Christ only ended the OC practice for those coming to Him in faith during Old Covenant Israel's last days. That's what you continue to miss. You ignore the fact that Old Covenant Israel experienced a "last days" generation.

You've got this really contorted...but I'm going to leave this passage for you to work through...Romans 10:1-13.

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I know it seems that way to you but your premise fails to include the fact that Old Covenant Israel had a last days generation followed by a judgment that brought and end to the Mosaic age.

A New World said:

I'm not missing anything. I realize the fact that Jesus became the sacrifice for sin and those who believed in His finished work would soon realize the fullness of the New Covenant kingdom age at His coming.

What you're missing is the last days of the Old Covenant age which ended at the judgment of Old Covenant Israel in AD 70. The reason Israel continued under the Old Covenant is that age could not end until judgment was complete.

Regarding Gal. 4:21-31 you wrote:


You're continuing to miss Paul's point. The passage begins: Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

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The point here is to the Galatian saints New World...so you're looking at it the wrong way. You cannot forget the issue here is Judaizers coming in behind Paul's teaching and trying to convince the Galatians they had to be circumcised. This is Galatians 2. The statement "you who desire to be under the law" is speaking to Galatian saints. Paul again addresses this in Galatians 3. One cannot divorce the full story behind Galatians, which is about Christians who where deceived into thinking they needed to keep the Law. Paul is saying absolutely not. The apostles addressed this in Acts 15.

A New World said:

Paul was warning those who had been under the Mosaic Law and the bondage that came with being under the Old Covenant not to return. He transitions from the question of returning to the Law directly its association with the Old Covenant: Galatians 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.

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A New World said:

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar--

Notice the present tense: These ARE two covenants, the one from Mt. Sinai...Galatians 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children--

Old Covenant Israel was under the Mosaic Law (the covenant from Mt. Sinai) which resulted in continuing bondage under that covenant.

Christ only ended the OC practice for those coming to Him in faith during Old Covenant Israel's last days. That's what you continue to miss. You ignore the fact that Old Covenant Israel experienced a "last days" generation.

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I think you missed the point again New World. Israel fell into the pattern long ago of thinking keeping the Law made them righteous. That's why they are in bondage. Many OT saints didn't fall into such a pattern. They understood the substitutionary sacrifices God prescribed for sin pointed to Christ, and they trusted in them by faith.

Indeed..."present Jerusalem" is Israel still stiffnecked and blind, holding to an abolished covenant. Paul tells us Christ abolished it at the cross in Ephesians 2
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

Do you understand Christ on the cross is to reconcile BOTH Jews and Gentiles??? So why keep the Law...unless one is BLIND to the abolished Law by Christ? This is Paul's point consistently!!! I submit you have missed it. Romans 9:31-33:
31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
33 just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Here again scripture refutes your premise that God is honoring two covenants...because WHO is the "stone of stumbling"??? That would be Christ...who, on the crossed ABOLISHED the OC.

You're adding reasoning the apostle never says...let the scripture speak! Paul says it again in Colossians 2:14, 15:
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

It ALL ended at the cross!

A New World said:

I know it seems that way to you but your premise fails to include the fact that Old Covenant Israel had a last days generation followed by a judgment that brought and end to the Mosaic age.

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I think I've pointed out very well the error of your thinking. I have never said Israel didn't have a last days generation. Jesus clearly said many times "this generation"...but the error of your thinking is that God was still honoring an abolished covenant.

Israel was basically in the wilderness again!!! Yes the symbol of the Mosaic age along with Israel was judged in AD 70...but don't confuse that with God honoring a covenant He sent His Son to keep perfectly, and then sacrifice Himself to free Israel as well as all who would believe on Him!

Three thousand of Israel was saved on the preaching of Christ by Peter at Pentecost New World....that's ABSOLUTE proof of the faulty idea you have.

One essential ingredient for the fulfillment of bible prophecies in the last days that was not present until May 14th, 1948, is the nation of Israel.


A must .... Israel has to be in the land for the prophecies to move forward

And there is now nothing to prevent the 70th week from beginning .... Israel is surrounded by the Muslims of the Middle East just as the prophets tell when the time of Jacob's trouble begins

Satan hates the "woman" ..... and the "man child" [Revelation 12:1-5; 12:6; 12:14]

They do [Matthew 14:36-39; 2 Peter 3]

Could start before this day is over

The Lord's call .... then the wrath begins to fall .... who will be able to stand?

2550 days of His non-stop unprecedented judgment upon the earth .... totally devastating .... unheard of .... never before

Ranting said:

Its very intro that the bible and end times prophecy says Israel will be restored ! But The Apostates {SATAN} deny deny and then deny again. So it was written so it was done!Enjoy Israel in your FACE!

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And here you are, with the unbelieving Jews of the first century. ignoring the presence of God Himself fulfilling all the promises to Israel. You're still awaiting the rebuilding of the Temple and the resumption of animal sacrifice, not understanding that God Himself has intervened directly in human history, not to save Israel, but to save everything.

The center is not Israel, it is Christ our Lord and Savior! He is the fulfillment of all of the promises to Israel.

And this is the depth to which much of the Church has sunk, casting aside the finished work of Christ, and dreaming of turning back the clock to the time before He came and made all new. How horribly, horribly sad.

Ranting said:

The 70th week must come.

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It did, immediately after the 69th week. Numbers are funny like that.