Need Godly Advice

shortygreyhere

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Hello All!

I need some prayerful and wise advice.

My small family has been torn apart by my brother's actions. He is 34. I have to leave out a lot of details to this story because it is so complex and I don't want to bog everyone down with reading all the details. Long story short, my mother was susceptible to his abuse and manipulation. He conned her at threat of broken relationship into sponsoring his wife for citizenship. He abused and manipulated her into going $80,000 in debt for him. He then conned her into buying a home. When I objected, he claimed I was demon possessed and stole thousands of dollars of possessions that I owned--he supposedly "broke fellowship" with me, not to speak with me or eat with me unless I would admit I had a demon. Obviously I would not do this as I know the Lord, have the Holy Spirit residing in me, and therefore, cannot have a demon. I viewed admitting to such a thing in order to preserve my relationship with him or regain my possessions as denying Christ's sufficiency on the cross--really denying Christ Himself. My refusal to admit that I was demon possessed estranged me from him and my mother (she did not believe I was possessed, but her mind was like a cult member and she could not see reality--literally). I did not verbally attack him or say anything to bring further division to the family. I controlled my behavior to walk in the Spirit and to be deliberate not to escalate the situation.

Once he got me away from her, she bought the home. He then began to try to force her to sign the home over to him at threat of falsifying charges against her with the police. He also got them involved with an unhealthy church that helped him try to abuse my mother so that she would sign the church over. My mother left the situation when it became unbearable and God is working it together for her good because at least she is no longer under his mental control and she sees things as they are. She was a classic mind control/abuse victim as she had been abused by her parents and her spouse for most of her life. When their abuse stopped, my brother took over the abuse.

God has certainly worked this together for my good and I believe I am in His will. He has brought healing to me, my mother, and my relationship with my mother. She is still bound by the sponsorship, the debt, and she still owns the house, but she is no longer under the control of another human being for the first time in her life. She did not have the heart to kick my brother out of the home. He is still living there with his wife and making payments on the house--basically rent for living there. My mother and my brother's relationship is devastated as is my relationship with my brother. It is very hard to watch her suffer the consequences of her cooperation with him over the years.

My brother is a inappropriate content addict and a daily pot smoker. He has gone down the rabbit hole with conspiracy theories and now believes in Sovereign Citizen theories (basically that the laws of the land don't apply to him, he doesn't have to pay taxes, etc). I find it very sorrowful that instead of repenting after what he has done, he seems to have taken his rebellion even further to justify his actions. He and I are in occasional email contact, but it is mostly restricted to his beliefs and me handling business from my mother's estate. So far I have not confronted him about any of these issues.

I have forgiven him and pray for him almost every day. I often hope that he would repent and be saved (he thinks he is saved, but I don't think it is possible considering the terrible fruit that he could be saved) and then our relationship could be reconciled. Sometimes I feel that I have forgiven him, but he is so unhealthy to be in relationship that I should not reconcile. He and I are like polar opposites; I love the truth, he hates it; I want to do what's right whatever it costs me, he wants his way whatever it costs him and others; I am sound of mind and live my life according to the scriptures, he seems to be in a cloud of deception and delusion. He thinks that my desire to walk with the Lord and not live a life of deliberate sin is a sign that I am a legalist, or have a religious spirit, being demon possessed.

What should I do, if anything, besides prayer? I think it is possible that he hates me so much that if I were to try to reason with him from the scripture and common sense to share truth with him that he would reject it simply because it came from me, but I wonder if anyone else in his life would speak the truth to him, especially if he is still going to that awful church.

I am open to advice outside, but please don't criticize, I am trying to do God's will and am in a situation that I suspect few find themselves in.

6/25/15 at 2:39 CST

Somebody asked questions about confrontation and teachers that he listens to.

As far as teachers go, he used to listen to what would be considered main stream preachers--I think there were some bad teachings related to an over reliance on God's grace to the point of abusing grace and also over reliance on some notion that God would bless a person and bail a person out of whatever trouble he found himself in even if the person was plunging headlong into trouble. I think the teachings had the seeds of these beliefs and my brother took them to another level. I do think that God's grace is amazing, but I do not get to perpetually abuse it by sinning in His face as if it is ok. I also think that God is with us always, but I can't do anything I please and think there will be good outcomes. When he became interested in conspiracy theories, he began to think God was playing a cosmic joke on all of us humans and he put his faith in what he could do to sustain himself instead of what God could do to sustain him. I would consider this similar to an "evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God."

My brother came to believe this demon stuff on his own. He thought that a demon left him when my mother and I prayed with him to try to help him with his addictions. He had a moment where he repented verbally. He felt something that he describes as heavy on him and that prevented him from breathing for a time. He described it as though something left him. Neither my mother nor I believe that christians can be possessed. I have no idea if what he experienced was subjective or real, but around that time he started becoming even more unpredictable and went even further into deception. I think he figured that if he had a "demon", I must have one too.

Over the years I encouraged him to put his trust in God and to guard his heart against greed and against ongoing deiliberate sinning without regard to the potentially serious consequency. I would encourage him to spend time waiting on the Lord in the word, prayer and praise until he felt God's presence (something I would describe as an internal sense of the Spirit and not an external presence) and was refreshed by God. He told me that he had only felt God's presence twice, but his description of those times sounded like emotionalism. When much of this first happened(about two years ago), I tried to reason with him from scripture and also with Christian apologetic writings about the demonic possession specifically. He refused to listen to me at all and claimed that he was not to even eat with me or to speak with me (obviously an incorrect interpretation of scripture).

He tried to suck as many people as possible into getting involved to prove that I was demon possessed and that my mom she get a house/sign over the house to him. This included our sweet solid pastor who told Philip I was not demon possessed and who tried to bring about truth and reconciliation. When we met with the pastor I deliberately kept things on topic about the demon possession alone rather than bringing up my brother's drug abuse, inappropriate content addiction, mistreatment of my mother, greed, etc. This was to prevent things from escalating out of control since he had such power over my mother. And also because I had great hope that the issue would be resolved if we stayed on point. My brother acted agreeable to the pastor, but once the meeting was over he went on believing lies.

When my mother was in the market for a home (this was in the midst of the demon possession accusations), they checked out a local church. I went with them to one of the services. I felt very spiritually disturbed by the service regardless of what was happening in the service. Being in the church building alone was distressing and there were signs of abberant teaching. I cautiously expressed my concerns to my mother and my brother and was persecuted for it. It was this church that was pulled into my supposed demon possession (the pastor believed in christian demonic oppression ala Pig in the Parlor) and also into pressuring my mother. The pastor of this church and his extended family attend there and they all believe in conspiracy theories. My mother told me that once I was estranged while she continued to attend the church for a couple of months and there were disturbing things being done to innocent sheep in the church--both children and adults and that doctrine was not protected by this pastor.

I am not sure if he is still attending this church, but I certainly think he went to very unhealthy places before this unhealthy church.

I think a couple of years ago I said as much as I could, but he was not open to hear.
 
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Catherineanne

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Hello All!

I need some prayerful and wise advice.

My small family has been torn apart by my brother's actions. He is 34. I have to leave out a lot of details to this story because it is so complex and I don't want to bog everyone down with reading all the details. Long story short, my mother was susceptible to his abuse and manipulation. He conned her at threat of broken relationship into sponsoring his wife for citizenship. He abused and manipulated her into going $80,000 in debt for him. He then conned her into buying a home. When I objected, he claimed I was demon possessed and stole thousands of dollars of possessions that I owned--he supposedly "broke fellowship" with me, not to speak with me or eat with me unless I would admit I had a demon. Obviously I would not do this as I know the Lord, have the Holy Spirit residing in me, and therefore, cannot have a demon. I viewed admitting to such a thing in order to preserve my relationship with him or regain my possessions as denying Christ's sufficiency on the cross--really denying Christ Himself. My refusal to admit that I was demon possessed estranged me from him and my mother (she did not believe I was possessed, but her mind was like a cult member and she could not see reality--literally). I did not verbally attack him or say anything to bring further division to the family. I controlled my behavior to walk in the Spirit and to be deliberate not to escalate the situation.

Once he got me away from her, she bought the home. He then began to try to force her to sign the home over to him at threat of falsifying charges against her with the police. He also got them involved with an unhealthy church that helped him try to abuse my mother so that she would sign the church over. My mother left the situation when it became unbearable and God is working it together for her good because at least she is no longer under his mental control and she sees things as they are. She was a classic mind control/abuse victim as she had been abused by her parents and her spouse for most of her life. When their abuse stopped, my brother took over the abuse.

God has certainly worked this together for my good and I believe I am in His will. He has brought healing to me, my mother, and my relationship with my mother. She is still bound by the sponsorship, the debt, and she still owns the house, but she is no longer under the control of another human being for the first time in her life. She did not have the heart to kick my brother out of the home. He is still living there with his wife and making payments on the house--basically rent for living there. My mother and my brother's relationship is devastated as is my relationship with my brother. It is very hard to watch her suffer the consequences of her cooperation with him over the years.

My brother is a inappropriate content addict and a daily pot smoker. He has gone down the rabbit hole with conspiracy theories and now believes in Sovereign Citizen theories (basically that the laws of the land don't apply to him, he doesn't have to pay taxes, etc). I find it very sorrowful that instead of repenting after what he has done, he seems to have taken his rebellion even further to justify his actions. He and I are in occasional email contact, but it is mostly restricted to his beliefs and me handling business from my mother's estate. So far I have not confronted him about any of these issues.

I have forgiven him and pray for him almost every day. I often hope that he would repent and be saved (he thinks he is saved, but I don't think it is possible considering the terrible fruit that he could be saved) and then our relationship could be reconciled. Sometimes I feel that I have forgiven him, but he is so unhealthy to be in relationship that I should not reconcile. He and I are like polar opposites; I love the truth, he hates it; I want to do what's right whatever it costs me, he wants his way whatever it costs him and others; I am sound of mind and live my life according to the scriptures, he seems to be in a cloud of deception and delusion. He thinks that my desire to walk with the Lord and not live a life of deliberate sin is a sign that I am a legalist, or have a religious spirit, being demon possessed.

What should I do, if anything, besides prayer? I think it is possible that he hates me so much that if I were to try to reason with him from the scripture and common sense to share truth with him that he would reject it simply because it came from me, but I wonder if anyone else in his life would speak the truth to him, especially if he is still going to that awful church.

I am open to advice outside, but please don't criticize, I am trying to do God's will and am in a situation that I suspect few find themselves in.

You are doing everything right, imo. Have the minimum necessary contact, and stay away from him as much as you possibly can. Pray, by all means, but then just leave him to the Lord.

Some people are too toxic to have around; they cause far too much emotional harm. It sounds as if your brother may be such a person. I have them in my family too; I do what I have to do and then I keep away. There really is no other way of dealing with them.
 
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Albion

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Hello All!

I need some prayerful and wise advice.
Hi, Hannah. Prayer is always right to do--and effective. So, don't stop doing that.

Otherwise, there are some good things that you've reported here. Your mother is finally free, so that's a big gain. The brother has less of an opportunity now to intimidate anyone.

I'd say, therefore, that to avoid him as much as is possible is the wisest course of action. Do not fight with him or try to outmaneuver him or reason with him. There comes a time when some people under certain circumstances should just be given a wide berth. That also means that there is a chance that things could gradually get better, because they won't do that if there is continual struggle and a competition going on and feeding into his attitude.
 
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paul1149

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Hannah,

No criticize here, only commendation. You've been through a grueling battle, and you held fast to the Lord and your own conscience. And you're still looking for the best way to proceed.

I agree with the others that you've already fulfilled any familial requirements the situation demanded of you. I also think it's important not to let the false guilt of unhealthy soul ties pressure you into an inappropriate or premature reconciliation. Take encouragement from the fact that the Lord has already proven Himself faithful in this matter, in that your mother has been restored to you, and in the condition of finally being free of the mentality of generational abuse. That's priceless, even if there was a monetary cost to the lesson. And I would suggest to keep praying for the Lord to turn that aspect around as well. Certainly God is still on the case and advocating for you.

According to Mark 11, pray from a place of victory rather than toward it. That way you will keep your heavenly peace, joy and strength even if the circumstances aren't great. Perhaps the passage from Jude would be helpful:

But you, dear friends – recall the predictions foretold by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. For they said to you, “In the end time there will come scoffers, propelled by their own ungodly desires.” These people are divisive, worldly, devoid of the Spirit.
But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith, by praying in the Holy Spirit,
maintain yourselves in the love of God, while anticipating the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that brings eternal life.
And have mercy on those who waver; save others by snatching them out of the fire; have mercy on others, coupled with a fear of God, hating even the clothes stained by the flesh. (Jude 1:17-23,)

Blessings,
 
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Goodbook

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Woah.
Well, be thankful God had brought you out of this...
Your brother has been decieved and acting on his delusions. I dont know what kind of church hes going to thats teaching this twisted scripture...but its not good. Best keep away. You did what you could, warned him..but if he chooses to follow other gods because they say its ok to sin and he has been warned then...thats his choice. Learn to let go.
 
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Goodbook

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Oh..reading this again..you havent warned him? Is God telling you to?

Well you can say something, but ask God to give you the words to speak.
If he doesnt listen then..like in matthew tell it to the church. If the church wont then admonish him then...treat him as an unbeliever.

Im not sure if its your brother that is just astray or that the whole churchthat hes in is wrong. Is he following after popular preachers? It would help if you could give us an idea.
 
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shortygreyhere

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Oh..reading this again..you havent warned him? Is God telling you to?


Im not sure if its your brother that is just astray or that the whole churchthat hes in is wrong. Is he following after popular preachers? It would help if you could give us an idea.

I have added some content to my original post. thanks!
 
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shortygreyhere

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Hannah,

No criticize here, only commendation. You've been through a grueling battle, and you held fast to the Lord and your own conscience. And you're still looking for the best way to proceed.

I agree with the others that you've already fulfilled any familial requirements the situation demanded of you. I also think it's important not to let the false guilt of unhealthy soul ties pressure you into an inappropriate or premature reconciliation. Take encouragement from the fact that the Lord has already proven Himself faithful in this matter, in that your mother has been restored to you, and in the condition of finally being free of the mentality of generational abuse. That's priceless, even if there was a monetary cost to the lesson. And I would suggest to keep praying for the Lord to turn that aspect around as well. Certainly God is still on the case and advocating for you.

According to Mark 11, pray from a place of victory rather than toward it. That way you will keep your heavenly peace, joy and strength even if the circumstances aren't great. Perhaps the passage from Jude would be helpful:

But you, dear friends – recall the predictions foretold by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. For they said to you, “In the end time there will come scoffers, propelled by their own ungodly desires.” These people are divisive, worldly, devoid of the Spirit.
But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith, by praying in the Holy Spirit,
maintain yourselves in the love of God, while anticipating the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that brings eternal life.
And have mercy on those who waver; save others by snatching them out of the fire; have mercy on others, coupled with a fear of God, hating even the clothes stained by the flesh. (Jude 1:17-23,)

Blessings,
Thank you. So true.
 
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BFine

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Your brother claims to be a (brother akan Christian)-- then apply Matthew 18:16
"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother."

"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED."

"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
 
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Goodbook

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Ok just read your post again with the added info...

It seems like your brother had a demon cast out of him but, it came back. That can happen if he was not strong in the faith. I have heard of the book pigs in the parlor. It is a delieverance manual. For some people it has been very helpful, but the whole business of casting out demons is so that they leave permanently not go out for a season, then find everything in order but a chink in the armour so take seven worse than themselves.

I dont think you need to worry about your brothers concern for you..he is still in bondage. All I can say is continue to pray that he will see the right people...it is not good for those who havent been taught by God to start casting out demons. You cant practise deliverance without the gospel. Beacause its Jesus who is the deliverer, not us. We just have delegated authority. Otherwise its just musical chairs for demons.
 
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Mister_Al

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If your brother is a Christian then he has the Holy Spirit in him and can't have a demon in him as well. The Holy Spirit and demons do not co exist in a person. The only way he can have a demon would be if the demon were to overpower the Holy Spirit and chase Him away and that's not going to happen.

If your brother has a demon then you should maybe question his salvation. Pray for God to forgive him and to show forth his salvation.

Blessings,

Alan
 
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shortygreyhere

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If your brother has a demon then you should maybe question his salvation. Pray for God to forgive him and to show forth his salvation.

Blessings,

Alan[/QUOTE]

Hi Alan,

I question his salvation. I have thought the same thing--if he really did have a demon (and he believes he did), then he was not saved. And then I have thought, well, even if he didn't have a demon, look at the terrible fruit of his life without repentance going on for years now to the point of persecuting fellow christians. And then I think of books like 1 John and how it says:

8Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

I have kept things very basic in my description of what happened, but experiencing it was like being in a whirlwind of chaos and disorder and his behavior was very disturbing, controlling, and abusive. I have wondered if he did in fact have a demon, maybe it came back, and maybe it came back with other demons. I can't prove any of this, but I do know that his condition shortly after he thought the demon came out of him was worse than before it supposedly came out of him.
 
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Hospes

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I am open to advice outside, but please don't criticize,...
Good gracious, Hannah!! You appear to be a trophy of God's grace; my last thought would be to criticize! :)
 
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shortygreyhere

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Your brother claims to be a (brother akan Christian)-- then apply Matthew 18:16
"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother."

"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED."

"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

I totally agree with this scripture, and I think I should confront him after a time of prayer assuming that I feel assured that I am doing it with the right attitude and timing.
 
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Catherineanne

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I totally agree with this scripture, and I think I should confront him after a time of prayer assuming that I feel assured that I am doing it with the right attitude and timing.

There is no point confronting your brother. You will only end up hurting yourself.

Leave it to the Holy Spirit to work in him, in his own time, and pray. That is really the best thing you can do, and it will protect you from further harm as well.
 
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