Suggestions/Questions for Christia Committee

I see. Sorry for taking it personally. We all have faults, that's one of mine.

And yes, I agree with how the word and "Jesus" in Christia would be. I believe that's what we've all been saying and dancing around effectively, but that we have taken turns in describing it differently. This is going to have to branch from Christia history and events, not Earth's.

I make a proposal that the Elves (who are closest to the Romans as can be stretched) ought to play the roles in the fate of Jesus. The history, unintentially when I sketched it long ago in the making of PoK, is extremely similar to that of the Romans.

The elves came from a land across the see which was utterly destroyed (like Troy) by the timelord Abba Eth (though this was unintentional as oppose to the Greeks attacking). When they moved to their new home, they established an empire and began to take over the neighboring lands (like Rome did so famously) and eventually stretched over all known Christia (that is known to the humans.)

They placed great pressure upon the people and viewed them as infierer and enslaved them, as they were mortal for the most part talentless in all the things the elves excelled at. However, the people of the land revolted (much like those of several of the countries that Rome's overstretched arms had reached) and the Great War between Man and Elves began and ended over 2,000 years ago (from GoS/PoK timeperiod). Since then, the elves still hang around and many of the cities they founded still stand to this day.

During the time of rule, however, it is possible to have Jesus, a man of a different name in Christia (perhaps an elven name would work here), walk amongst the oppressed people and preach peace, not war. However, when Jesus was executed and then risen again, they did not heed his teachings of peace at first, but began the war to a bloody freedom.

After Peria, the first nation and later Empire to form, came to power, they declared Christ as the savior and called into session a council to decide what holy writings should be in a holy book to spread Jesus' peace across Christia (this of course would be in reference to Cesaer Constantine). The holy book may or may not be called the Bible, but it would consist of the same things which our's does....

What about that?

~Star

Hmm... Some good ideas, but I don't know... I mean, it doesn't solve the issue of redemption well enough.
Not to get into the details, but the only reason Jesus could redeem us was because he was a Son of Adam. A son of Adam was needed to pay the penalty of Adam's (and ultimately, all humanity's) sin, which is why Jesus was manifest in the flesh.
Redemption in multi-racial worlds is tricky. Not impossible, just tricky.

I'm piecing things together, based on the creation, fall, ect. It's incomplete, but this is what I have so far:
Basically, the Betrayer comes to tempt the races into sin. He uses their differences to make them ill-content with themselves and thus do a forbidden act which will change their very nature and thus become like God. For example, the dwarves are unhappy with their short size and so they perform this forbidden act so that they can become giants.
I was thinking that it would involve a tree and fruit like our fall did, but I'm still undecided on that.
Anyway, the redemption issue I think will necessitate the shed blood of God the Son at the hands of the Betrayer (or perhaps a consort of the races), and a tree will grow from the blood-soaked soil which will somehow provide salvation.
It's still very sketchy, but that's what I have formulated so far.

Why does it have to be the son of Adam? Perhaps on this world, they're the sons of Barbar or something.

An alteration to the redemption story perhaps is a better solution.

StarSplitter87 said:

Why does it have to be the son of Adam? Perhaps on this world, they're the sons of Barbar or something.

An alteration to the redemption story perhaps is a better solution.

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I couldn't disagree more. Nothing personal here, but even if we change every thing else about the story, we need the redemption story unchanged.

This is not a moral statement, this is meant for all denominations and we need some thing clear enough for us to agree.
We need nothing more unique than Lewis' Aslan. Even Dante is too far out of the definite redemption plan to model in my opinion.

I agree with DK, no changing the Word. No changing the redemption plan in any way shape or form. Which is why, Shadow, I'm finding it hard to fit this tree you mention into the redemption plan for Christia. Redemption is based on faith, after all. Why can't it be the same on Christia?

As for the rest, I'm not sure, but I'm intrigued. We definitely need to continue along the lines of each race's own particular foible, or doorway, the enemy used to bring about their downfall.

I also like Star's ideas about the Elves being like the Romans, we need to develop this further.

I'll send you a PM on that Star. I've discussed this in other places, and this thread doesn't need any more theology to clog it up.

There are three aspects of the redemption that must be followed:

1) It touches every sinful race.

2) It must involve the willing shedding of perfect blood.

3) Redemption comes from an individual, willing choice of belief.

These three are the basics of any redemptive story.

Now, why a tree? I don't know. I was typing up that post, and I felt compelled to include something about a tree. I don't really know how to fit it in, looking back. Perhaps I'll turn it into something like a symbol, sort of the way a cross is to us. Maybe I... but it's still too vague at this point.
I will continue to contemplate the story, but I will make the elves imperial like the Romans.

I wasn't saying to change it, merely change some aspects of it. The basic premise will be the same, but perhaps the form of execution was different and that the people of Christia (the humans anyway) came from the first two beings who were called Jill and Jane, not Adam and Eve. The story is the same, the premise the same, the purpose the same, just adjusted to differences in the worlds.

And yay for the elves becoming Romanized!

~Star

StarSplitter87 said:

...the people of Christia (the humans anyway) came from the first two beings who were called Jill and Jane, not Adam and Eve.

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Uh, Star? There's a pretty big hole in your logic here. I think you see what I mean.

As for historical aspects? I have a question re: the Fall. Since we have so many races we're dealing with I think the Fall has to be something that encompases all of them in pretty much the same time frame. Satan is subtle, perhaps he wove some sort of resentment in each race for the others and caused them all to perform some sort of offense each to the other. This could be what started the first, and most devastating, war between the races. The one that caused them all to divide. Before I go further with the telling of this idea I'd like some feedback.

Hmm... no, I don't quite think so... You see the sin aught to be a direct rebellion against God, although I suppose that warring with the other races could cause that...
Well, I'll just double time it to finish up the history write-up so I can have that available. That way there will be more cards on the table, so to speak.

That is a good idea, but until I get my write-up done, I'm going to refrain from commenting.

I am going to do my best to have that done this week.

That's awesome Sam. I rather like it.

And that last bit you added was precisely what I was saying before about the events and names of the things happening in the Bible. I think it is entirely feasable to use most of the same names we do in our bible (just to make things simple).

~Star

Yeah, I missed that point. Like I said, there would be much of their Holy Book which would be the same as ours, because the same God is the author, but obviously some things would need to be different, since it's a different world.

I've decided that I'm going to deal only with important pre-thread history; things like creation, the fall, separation of the races, and the redemption. From there, the committee will dictate what needs to be added, and if desired I will also write up those stories.

Thank you Shadow. You've really got a good hold on things.

~Star

Shadowseldil said:

I've decided that I'm going to deal only with important pre-thread history; things like creation, the fall, separation of the races, and the redemption. From there, the committee will dictate what needs to be added, and if desired I will also write up those stories.

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Looking forward to reading them. These foundation pieces will be important in my development of Peria, as I'm sure the rest of the committee can attest as they work on the nations they have selected to develop.

I wasn't aware of this thread till Star posted in it. I've several things I want to address in relation to the posts here, so I'll just post my overall comment in this thread. Thanks for pming me about the specific areas you want to get cleared up, WoF. I did get lost through all the information in both threads.

The idea of Christia originally came from Erwin (he made up that name), who wanted to make a RPG section that is similar to www.aelyria.com (might worth checking that out). The staff then had a huge debate on magic and Christianity and fictional writing before Erwin gave the go-ahead and us RPG team took over the creation process. As you have all pointed out, there isn't much info on Christia. What the team came up with was meant to be a guideline (blueprint) for players to add to the world.

One main reason Christia isn't as popular is its departure from the usual RP style. It requires players to read a fair amount of info and play within the boundary of the info already set up. If people have read the info thread, they wouldn't have come up with elves using magic.

The concept behind Christia is to have a world where the Christian God is the only true God and creator, and where Christian values take central stage. To adopt the Christian framework onto a fantasy setting, we changed the names and rules (see “mana” section). We also didn't delve into the specifics of Jesus because to us, Christia is a different world created by the God Yahweh, and Yahweh created all the races. We were more focused, you could say, on the aspect of faith in God and how that faith plays in people's lives in a different world. Hence, in Christia, it doesn't necessarily have to follow the same Jesus scenario.

From what I’ve read so far, I'm uneasy in how it seems that the entire bible has been copied onto the Christia model only with the names altered (J&J replacing Adam and Eve). It takes away the mystery of the genre if everything is the same as the bible. The greatest strength of fantasy is how you can explore the same issues of the modern world with alternate situations and people without seeming to stuff (preach) your version of things down readers’ throats. Narnia wouldn’t have had such a worldwide reception if Lewis wrote it like the bible.

I question whether it might have been better to play in the modern Earth setting after all.

With that said, which I think have offended everyone here, I want to applaud your awesome effort in creating a more coherent account of how God played in the history (creation) of Christia. Christia couldn't have survived without you guys. I'm only here to explain the original intention of Christia and give my honest 2-cents, so take it or leave it.

Mana: As agreed between the staff, we eliminated *magic* from Christia. Mana is an inborn ability that can be used for good or evil depending on the user. Its difference from the usual magic is that with God, mana is a God given talent, like how a person was born better at music, the other at science? Yet like all things, we have to learn and practise in order to be good at it. I just have a thought here. What if a person believing in God later on doubts him, but after few years or so, comes back to God? I find this concept awkward if the person is a mana wielder, all of sudden, he can’t use mana, and then suddenly, he can? The journey of faith is never as clear-cut as black and white.

I know you’ve already voted on the use of mana and magic, but I’m still a bit confused. If future players get confused also, it might worth to have things clarified now.

sampson x said:

Mana is the spiritual force. Mana can be wielded by any being with a spirit. Mana-wielders rely on the power of a higher spiritual being in order to weave their Mana. Mana must be combined with Faith in order to be used. The more Faith a being has, the better that being can wield Mana. Mana in itself is not evil. It can, however, be used for perverted purposes. If Faith in the spiritual being is changed to another (as the fall of a Paladin, or the conversion of a Dark Priest would do), then all abilities granted by the Mana earlier would be lost. New Mana abilities would have to be learned.

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You mean God’s spirit, right? So if someone believes in God, yet thinks it’s ok in God’s eyes to do such and such evil things, then that someone can still use mana?
And mana has nothing to do with learning and practising? If the reserve of mana is contingent on faith, then a mana wielder will never get tired in battle. Doesn’t that make mana wielders invincible?

Magic is the physical force. Magic can also be wielded by any sentient being. It is sin, however, for a human to wield Magic. Magic is more about skill, power, and learning than Mana. In order to improve in skill with Magic, Magic-users must train. Some types of magic, such as Necromancy, are evil for any race. Others, such as elemental powers, are only evil if used in the wrong way or by a human.

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I’m unsure on the wordings here. You seem to be implying that practising a skill that you learn (i.e diligence. And what do you mean by ‘skill’? it can be anything. Wood crafting is a skill.) is evil? or do you mean it’s evil because the source is not from God? and what about ‘power’? what exactly do you mean by it?

Technology: Gunfire is definitely out, but that was my fault for not putting that in the guideline. I guess we've played fantasy for so long that we took it for granted that you don't bring gunfire into a fantasy story! but, we've never ruled out the possibility of technological advancement in future threads. I recall someone examining a clock in one of the early RPs, so early renaissance sounds pretty good.

History: I don’t have anything to add on the overall history of Christia - as explained in the origin of Christia, but with the history of specific locations… I don't know whether any of you have looked at the really old threads. There's some information of a cult located in Peria in the first post of A Time of Trial. "The lost key" RP (preceding time of trial) had to do with the recovering of a lost holy book. The content of the book is never revealed as "Time of trial" was never finished.

Places: There isn’t any missing information on the places as all info is in the geography thread and any specific info would be found in RPs. How much info you want to create depends on how detailed you want to make it. Christia is in its infancy, and as we wanted players to add to it, we didn't set everything in stone. The idea of the Peria cult arose because someone wanted to play villain... well, you get the drift. The main differences separating the Kingdoms are the main differences outlined in the geography thread.

No bound to imagination.

I hope everyone here can give serious thoughts to the issues I've raised. To stress again, I'm not here to pick on things. I think you've all done a great job, and I cannot thank you enough for desiring to make Christia better!

Blessed...I have a small question.

Are you saying there is a section which details all aspects of Christia already? I know there are brief summaries and an intro section...however I did not know there was a page on all matters concerning Christia.

One of the main reasons we brought this committee into being was to make (or if it already existed) improve (mostly update) that particular information section. It wasn't to forge the path of new threads in the future, but to inspire them and inform them of a brief history of the RPGers who came before.

~Star