Suggestions/Questions for Christia Committee

[Shadowseldil]

I recommend that once the council settles on some preliminary details, such as length of terms and voting procedures, they would compile (or deligate the task of compiling ) a beginner's guide to Christia. I know one of my biggest hesitations with Christia is the overwhelming backgrounds of which I still have no real understanding. If we could have a short summery of important details for beginners, that would be exponentially helpful.

And I think there has been some talk about gathering or writing summeries of the various "leagues" of Christia, but that might have just been part of the discussion about tidying up the information about the different regions. But they'll get to it, Joy, especially if you suggest it to them. It seems like something that would be helpful.

But I'll get on that history presentation right away, sir. I'll have the DNA evidence on your desk by five.

 

[StarSplitter87]

NOTE TO CHRISTIA COMMITTEE:

I notice you have been discussing the need of a definite history for Christia. I have offered my services ...
...
Also, I want to express my disapproval of the idea that Christia is some future expression of our world....
...
Also, if it's not too bothersome, could I tag the official thread? It would make it easier for me to keep up with things.

Your services are aprishated Shadow. Your willingness to work hard for this site shows your dedication to your fellow Christians and those who have not yet found the light.

I also disagree with a future version of now. I've never thought of it as that (if ANYTHING a past version), however an alternate world is most reasonable and closer to the truth of the spirit of the world. Christia is a world in which anything is possible.

Cool! I've been hoping something would be put together to keep Christia alive.

So my question, or request is: Will you be compiling a record or post or something, of some of the different groups (i.e. Paladin, Pra Yer) in the Christia world? I've been really interested in some Christia RPGs, but have been afraid to join, since I know almost nothing about Paladins and people like that who are so central to many of the plots.

Alot of the people who post for those characters post character profiles in the character section with those specific auras listed out and detailed (well ok, TWO of them do ). We will be compiling those submissions (if they are made) and any others which come up. It will be posted as a compiled list of "everything you need to know about *blah blah blah*" There will hopefully be (and this is my vision) a section for "Beginners: A Tediously Brief Introduction" in which there will be links to each individual area on the map and as each area references a race or city (which has a history), there will be a link which flows onto pages which have that information.

But we'll see. However, all of the information WILL be placed into one area and for now, that will be here.

~Star

 

[Woman of Faith]

I've been working on getting more detailed info on the Holy Order of Pra Yer Warriors compiled for my own edification. Eventually it will be posted for others to use, but I advise you it is low priority right now.

See Asha's bio for a pretty good handle on the Pra Yer.
Asha

 

[Shadowseldil]

Man, that would be beautiful, Star. I can't wait to see that, and if you need help getting it together, let me know.

See, this is why we need a Christia committee, to get people excited about Christia again. It's fallen into disrepair and needs some major work, but if we all work together, we can restore it to pristine condition. In fact, I think we can make it better than it used to be.

Now, as concerns the issue of Magic:

I would say I am something of an expert on the subject, having done study on both magic and magick (which still sends shivers across my skin) and having designed my own system of magic. The most important issue to note is that magic is forbidden to the children of Adam, and only to the children of Adam. Any creature that is not a child of Adam (which would include other races like elves, dwarves, gnomes, trolls, centaurs, even humans not descended from Adam) is not subject to that restriction. The residents of Christia, unless they are the children of Adam, are not forbidden to use magic.

Now, the "Same God" argument of WoF's does not hold stock. Just hear me out, okay.
God commands us to "remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy." A command of God, right? What happens in eternity when "there should be time no longer." How can you observe the Sabbath without time? In eternity, there will be no Sabbath to remember. Same God, different rules.
So, who is to say that in other worlds, God would not have a separate standard of rules? It is all the more likely that He would have different rules, because it is a different creation.

The real problem that I have always had with Christia is the inclusion of Jesus Christ and the Bible. Not that we shouldn't include God the Son, but he would not be known as Jesus. Think about Aslan in Lewis's Narnia. No one there ever called Him Jesus, but it was obvious they were one and the same.
I have hesitant ways to resolve these issues, but let me get the history pre-thread history finished before I present them.

 

[Raptureman]

Ummm... not to intrude again but, if you will pm me I'll help you guys out here. Like an intern or something.

 

[StarSplitter87]

Rapture, this is an open thread for anyone to post in. You may present your thoughts, concern, and suggestions freely here though you may not have (for now) any authority in the decision making.

And very nicely put Shadow, that is precisely what I was trying to get at but didn't know how to say it. God doesn't have to present the same restrictions and such on another planet and to be quite frank, we are essentially acting as God in this world that does not really exist. We are making the decisions and though the norm would be to follow our own world's example, we may choose to go entire in a different direction.

But even if we are basing the "rules," as we are now seeming to call them, the same as here in real life, Shadow has a point in saying those not descended of Adam are allowed to use magics and things. It is not that God did not create them, but that he desired humans to focus more on relying on God, mana, than on the material world which magic stems from.

~Star

 

[dramaking]

Rapture, this is an open thread for anyone to post in. You may present your thoughts, concern, and suggestions freely here though you may not have (for now) any authority in the decision making.

And very nicely put Shadow, that is precisely what I was trying to get at but didn't know how to say it. God doesn't have to present the same restrictions and such on another planet and to be quite frank, we are essentially acting as God in this world that does not really exist. We are making the decisions and though the norm would be to follow our own world's example, we may choose to go entire in a different direction.

But even if we are basing the "rules," as we are now seeming to call them, the same as here in real life, Shadow has a point in saying those not descended of Adam are allowed to use magics and things. It is not that God did not create them, but that he desired humans to focus more on relying on God, mana, than on the material world which magic stems from.

~Star

Love that.

 

[Woman of Faith]

See, this is why we need a Christia committee, to get people excited about Christia again. It's fallen into disrepair and needs some major work, but if we all work together, we can restore it to pristine condition. In fact, I think we can make it better than it used to be.

When I agreed to be a part of the Christia Committee I believed we were going to work to restore Christia. Restoration does not involve making changes, folks, it is bringing something back to its original condition.

Collier's Dictionary defines restore this way:
1. to bring back; reestablish 2. to bring back to a former or original state or condition 3. to return (something lost, taken or stolen)

Blessed-one's original intent was to create a world in which God and His Word were honored. Of course, there would be bad guys that would not, but the heroes, the protagonists of Christia were to know God and obey His Word. This included leaving off the use of magic. She wanted to keep the same sort of powers and effects alive in the game so she replaced magic with mana.

I don't see the issue here, I really don't. If we are all Christians, as we say, and if we want God honored in the world of Christia then it should be a given that His Word would be honored. Let the villains and antagonists use magic, they don't obey God anyway, but let the heroes use mana. We can work this out.

When I agreed to work on this I knew it was going to be a tough row to hoe. I knew it was going to take a lot of effort. Pardon me, but it seems there are some who want to sweep this important issue under the rug and move on. I'd like to stick this one out and get it done as Blessed-one would have it done.

Now, as concerns the issue of Magic:

I would say I am something of an expert on the subject, having done study on both magic and magick (which still sends shivers across my skin) and having designed my own system of magic. The most important issue to note is that magic is forbidden to the children of Adam, and only to the children of Adam. Any creature that is not a child of Adam (which would include other races like elves, dwarves, gnomes, trolls, centaurs, even humans not descended from Adam) is not subject to that restriction. The residents of Christia, unless they are the children of Adam, are not forbidden to use magic.

I don't think the issue of the other races needs to be addressed until the issue of magic is resolved so I will not comment on this right now.

Now, the "Same God" argument of WoF's does not hold stock. Just hear me out, okay.
God commands us to "remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy." A command of God, right? What happens in eternity when "there should be time no longer." How can you observe the Sabbath without time? In eternity, there will be no Sabbath to remember. Same God, different rules.
So, who is to say that in other worlds, God would not have a separate standard of rules? It is all the more likely that He would have different rules, because it is a different creation.

Okay, I've heard you out. Now hear me out, no, hear God out. For we can be absolutely certain of what He would say about any subject if we read His Word. I am no expert on anything. I have many skills, but I am no expert on any single thing. I count myself a student of the Bible, however, and what Shadow says above is not Scriptural. First of all, the example using the Sabbath does not hold stock. Look at Mark 2:27-28, this is Jesus the Christ talking, "And He said unto them, 'The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.'" When Jesus died on the cross He made the Sabbath eternal right then and there, to honor the Sabbath is to honor Him. He forbids the use of magic, witchcraft, sorcery, etc. God loves obedience better than sacrifice, my friends. Saul lost his kingdom to David because he disobeyed then the prophet Samuel came to him and said in 1 Samuel 15:22, "Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams."

Again, He forbids magic. If we are to restore Christia, not change it, or make it into something Blessed-one never meant it to be, then we must see that God's Word is obeyed.

The "Same God, Different Rules" theory does not hold up, it is not Scriptural. God does not change. He says so Himself in Malachai 3:6, "For I am the Lord, I change not..." The reason He does not change is that He is bound by His Word, if He weren't He would have scrapped the entire world long ago, but instead He made a plan to restore us to Himself. Numbers 23:19 says, "God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent (change)..." James 1:17 says, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with Whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." From God's own Word we can see that there will never be "Same God, Different Rules". He made the whole of the universe and the same rules apply throughout the whole of creation.

The real problem that I have always had with Christia is the inclusion of Jesus Christ and the Bible. Not that we shouldn't include God the Son, but he would not be known as Jesus. Think about Aslan in Lewis's Narnia. No one there ever called Him Jesus, but it was obvious they were one and the same.

This is your opinion, Shadow, and you are entitled to it. I just don't understand it at all. How can a world named CHRISTia not include Jesus, who IS the Christ? He is the plan God made for us, our restoration into His family. How could you not want Him in Christia? The thing is we are not talking about Narnia, nor are we talking about Middle Earth. If people want a world like the one Shadow, and others, are describing there is a whole other area for that in this RPG forum. Christia was created to honor God, His Son, Jesus and His Holy Spirit. I can't see how a committee that was put together to restore that ideal can exclude God's Word.

It WILL take work, but we CAN restore Christia to Blessed-one's original vision. If we can unify for that purpose, as I thought the CC was meant to do, then we will revive a system that is great fun to play, but also honors God.

 

[dramaking]

Not going into your Biblical ramifications which I frankly don't have a right to debate, but I can speak for myself when I say that I am not here to restore Blessed-One's techniques.

Not trying to be rude, but they weren't finished. The entire history was convaluted and at cross purposes, her description of mana was never EXPLAINED.
Even your description of it as a Christian chi is your own interpretation.
Restoration of Christia is not what we need (in my opinion) because it was NEVER successful. Two groups of people have role-played there successfully, the founders and a group that completely altered it for user-friendliness.
The founders are gone, and it's about time to reconciled the differences and simplified the product.

I've been raised in such a way I look at things from the angle of productivity, the product in this case in the Christia section.
It was designed by Paulewog, Blessed-One and co. years later it has had a LENGTHY product test, was it popular? Was it used?

No.

It needs to be looked at further and it's flaws replaced.
Recreating a flawed machine is not going to fix us here.
(I have purposefully avoided the magic discussion here, because I feel underqualified for it)

 

[Shadowseldil]

There is one fallacy in your argument, Woman of Faith. You are basing all your arguments off the idea that Christia is part of this world. What if it was part of a separate world? If it is, then God could (and, as I see it, most likely would) have a different design for that world. And if there is a different design, who is to say God could not have designed a lawful form of magic?

Let me use a bizarre instance: Do you believe it is sinful not to wear red hats to church? In other words, do you are sinning if you do not wear a red hat to church? I'm pretty sure I know your answer, so I'll move on.
What then do you do with the verse "whatsoever is not of faith is sin?" (Romans 14:23). I once knew a lady who grew up in a church where it was taught that if you did not wear a red hat to church, you were sinning. When she came to my church, she was taught the truth that such is not taught in the scriptures. However, she could not in good faith come to church to worship unless she wore a red hat. I firmly believe that, if she did not come to church wearing a red hat, it would have been a sin. Why? Not because wearing or not wearing the hat was sinful, but because she could not do it in faith, and whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
I, however, have no such convictions, and so I go to church often without wearing a red hat. Do I sin, then? I don't think so; I mean, I've never been convicted by the Spirit for not wearing a red hat.
So we have one person who, if she does not wear a red hat to church, is sinning, and me who, if I do not wear a red hat to church, I am not sinning. Yet we worshiped the same God together. (Or did; the lady moved away some time ago.) Different "rules", same God.
Now, before I go on, when the Bible says, "Thou shalt not," then thou shalt not. I don't care who you are.

The problem, though, WoF, is that Christia is NOT our world. It cannot be, not by any stretch of the imagination. I don't believe it could even be anywhere located in our universe; it would have to be a completely separate universe. How then can the Bible exist in a completely separate universe, where the names "Abraham" and "Moses" and places like "Egypt" or "Caanan" would mean nothing?
And why would they know the name "Jesus Christ", a son of Adam who lived two thousand years ago by our record? A name which has never gone beyond our orbit, despite the fact that angels proclaim His praise forever? And if you take that strain far enough, you could say all fantasy is wrong; because the name "Jesus" is the name which shall be praised forever, yet it is a name known only to the children of Adam. To have other creatures know God the Son by any other name is against Scripture, because it is not "at the name of Aslan every knee shall bow." But they could not know him by the name Jesus Christ, because that is a name given only to the children of Adam for salvation, and not to any other species (if I may use the word). Nor was the life of our Savior lived in any other world, but in our world.
But that's all reductio ad absurdum. I have no problems with fantasy nor do I believe God prohibits it.

To boil it down, WoF, and don't think that I'm saying anything against you, because I love you my dear sister, but to boil it down, the point is that we cannot base other universes by our "rules." The Bible was written to the children of Adam, and to the children of Adam only. To force other universes to abide by the identical principles is uncomfortable at best, and ludicrous at worst.
But this should not really surprise you. We once lived according to the law under the law, but after that faith is come, we are no longer under the law, but under grace. So that we are now dead to the law and alive to grace.
If we, being one creature, can be made so different, imagine what glorious differences God may have designed into other worlds.

 

[Shadowseldil]

On a vaguely related note, I've been researching and have found that there are absolutely no records of pre-thread history. As such, I will be PMing certain Christia members for any pre-thread history they might have developed (Star's elven exodus, for example) so that I might incorporate it into my history.
It's vaguely related because I am currently writing an account of "the Fall" on Christia, and since I must incorporate God the Son (hey, it might be a different world, but salvation comes from God and God alone, no matter what universe you're in), it affects what name I am to give Him, if any. I may just refer to Him as God the Son.

 

[StarSplitter87]

So Shadow, what you are basically (and I think I'm getting this right) is that though Christia (which is actually called Ithriya, RPG land is called Christia) is similar to our world, it has it's differences.

A different path in which Earth might have gone according to the will of God. If had decided upon another design instead of the one which we all attempt to accomplish. This means also that Jesus (perhaps under a different name or the same) came to Ithriya in the same manner and preached about the same things but to different people, at a different time, and was executed by a different culture (i.e. perhaps the Romans are now the Perians or the Elves even [though if the elves, perhaps that started the Great War? I don't know...just examples]).

That though the events were similar, they were decidedly different in many instances. And that also the cultures and beliefs of the peoples of Ithriya are all different from Earth because they developed differently.

And to add to examples of Shadow's "red hat" story, another could be said of the current religions a little further from the general Christian faith such as the Muslims and Jews. We all pray to the same God (calling him different names at times) and have different opinions of Jesus, but we all pray to the same God, but practice our faith differently. Similar things must have happened in Ithriya, if God intended a similar design to Earth, and thus happened but at a different rate and in a different way.

And on that thought process, there should not be one single universal religion in Ithriya, but several. It has been a theory of mine for a long time that the Elves (for example) were more akin to the Greeks and (funny enough) the Romans in a multi-god belief system stemming from an ancient religion of one God which changed because their culture slowly decided to alter it to many because they could not imagion so much stemming from one source...

~Star

 

[Shadowseldil]

So Shadow, what you are basically (and I think I'm getting this right) is that though Christia (which is actually called Ithriya, RPG land is called Christia) is similar to our world, it has it's differences.

A different path in which Earth might have gone according to the will of God. If had decided upon another design instead of the one which we all attempt to accomplish. This means also that Jesus (perhaps under a different name or the same) came to Ithriya in the same manner and preached about the same things but to different people, at a different time, and was executed by a different culture (i.e. perhaps the Romans are now the Perians or the Elves even [though if the elves, perhaps that started the Great War? I don't know...just examples]).

That though the events were similar, they were decidedly different in many instances. And that also the cultures and beliefs of the peoples of Ithriya are all different from Earth because they developed differently.

In a round about way, yes. But it's beyond that too. There may be a few similar points (such as gravity, for example), but it is a completely different world (and I'm speaking from the standpoint as if the world of Christia were real), not even what one would call a "parallel universe."
Earth, this universe, this creation, was designed for the children of Adam. I keep using this phrase because it is crucial to understanding this whole issue. You see, the Bible makes it quite plain that salvation through the blood of the Christ is ONLY offered to the descendants of Adam and Eve (well, technically the descendants of Adam, but since Eve was the first woman and Adam's wife, I'm safe to say Adam and Eve).
However, I believe that the crucifixion was a singular event in all histories that ever may have existed. In other words, if there were another universe, with its own incarnate God the Son, the redemptive atonement would not be comparable. It would be another singular event in all histories, but the two could not be compared.
I have written redemptive stories for worlds with multiple races, but it is always tricky, and there is no possibility that it would be the same the crucifixion. The same underlying principle of atonement, yes, but the method whereby God purchases redemption, drastically different. If you want a better study on such fictional theology, I would point you to C.S. Lewis. Being a scholar in fiction and in theology, his is the advise to follow.

And to add to examples of Shadow's "red hat" story, another could be said of the current religions a little further from the general Christian faith such as the Muslims and Jews. We all pray to the same God (calling him different names at times) and have different opinions of Jesus, but we all pray to the same God, but practice our faith differently. Similar things must have happened in Ithriya, if God intended a similar design to Earth, and thus happened but at a different rate and in a different way.

Sorry, star, but I break with you on that last point. The Bible says in II John 9

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Stepping out of fiction for the moment, you have to realize that it is all about "what will you do with Jesus?" In reality, His is the only name given unto salvation. And if a man (or woman) does not abide in the doctrine of Christ (that is to say, if they do not hold the correct views of and beliefs in Jesus) they have not God.
You yourself admitted that they hold different opinions of Jesus. According to this verse, if they do not hold to the truths of the risen Christ (this is not the proper place to name them all, however I can present them on request), then they are none of His and none of God's.
You are wrong on that point, Star; we do not all worship the same God. There is one God, and He must be worshiped on His terms, not ours.

 

[StarSplitter87]

*Deep breath and inserts foot*

I was speaking on the Christian religions and religions which branch off of them and those which they branched from. The distinctive difference between these religions is how they felt God wanted them to worship him. They all had their own interpretations of God's will and for all intents and purposes believe they are following His will His way and that the rest of the world are blasphemers who don't know any better.

We have no real way of being sure what God desires of us. The bible is, unforchuantely, open to interpretation along with the Qu'ran, and other holy books. Especially when several books and chapters from the Bible specifically have been removed after Constantine's Convention.

Alot of the of differences happened because of arguments on how strict things were or how important holidays are or how devout some churches were. The Puritans, for example, felt the catholics of the time were too loose and went to the Americas to escape the evil they felt was in europe.

Other Christian based religions have split on smaller things such as the date of Easter or if baptism is a free choice or if it's something that must be done to a child after birth.

Many major differences happened when Jesus came to earth and resurrected. Alot of the old religions mainly follow the teachings of the Old Testimate God (lightning and zapping left and right) or the New Testimate God which was more passive allowing Jesus, His son, to teach the people a simpler way to follow Him and let mankind make their own mistakes.

But even after Jesus came, debate raged on concerning how to interpret the words he spoke and what would be considered following and what would be considered diverting. One thing we humans do consistently is argue about arguing.

Yes, back to the point in which sprouted this, there is only one way in which to follow God. But there are a LOT of variations to that way in which mankind has misinterpreted things, took some things too literally, others too vague, and small things that follow. Of the Christian religions...we do all worship the same God, but in our own way. We don't mean to, but that's how it is. I can't say who is right and who is wrong. Really, the only way of knowing for sure is asking God.

~Star

 

[sampson x]

Reminder to get back to topic here. This discussion ends here. Go somewhere else if you want to discuss religion like this. Not here. Religion of Christia, yes. Religion of our world, no.

 

[StarSplitter87]

lol, sorry Sam. I guess we sort of got carried away.

But back to the topic...I forget what it is we got so far off track. I think it had to do with how Jesus came to Christia's world?

~Star

 

[Woman of Faith]

There is one fallacy in your argument, Woman of Faith. You are basing all your arguments off the idea that Christia is part of this world.

Actually, Shadow, I'm not. Just because I suggested Christia might be some future Earth doesn't mean I'm basing my argument off that suggestion. I'm basing my argument off the fact that Blessed-one created Christia as a Christian world, which she could not have done without incorporating the Word. Sadly, the history of Christia has been thoroughly deleted by some well-meaning, but rather careless mods, who thought to re-organize something that was actually organized already, IMHO. Perhaps it could have used streamlining, but that is a whole other issue, now moot anyway.

Back to the reason I want to have Jesus and the Word in Christia. I could find nothing in CF/4U to back up my argument, but I found the following on Google while trying research Peria:

The Empire of Peria - Foru.ms Forums[SIZE=-1]Peria was founded as a Christian Empire. Mostly populated by humans, Peria has a variety of species of individuals.

[/SIZE]

So, there is my basis for the argument that Jesus and the Word belong in Christia. If the Savior was known in Peria at the time of the founding of the empire then surely He would have been known, and honored, elsewhere in the world.
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE]

What if it was part of a separate world? If it is, then God could (and, as I see it, most likely would) have a different design for that world. And if there is a different design, who is to say God could not have designed a lawful form of magic?

I believe I addressed this rather straightforwardly and completely with the use of Scripture in my last post. God is omnipotent, He is omnipresent and, by His own statements in the Bible, He does not change. Since He was included in the creation of Christia we must conclude therefore, as far as Christia is concerned, those who honor Him would not use magic.

About your red hat example, Paul uses something similar to explain to the Jews, new in the faith of Christianity, that they should not condemn anyone for eating things they consider unclean. He even chastised Peter openly for refusing to eat with Gentiles, but he was simply explaining that they were no longer under the law, that they were saved by grace. Those who cannot accept that, who still conform to the old traditions, trap themselves, much as your elderly friend wearing those red hats. Her belief was not Scriptural, nor is the "same God, different rules" argument. (I'm tired and this seems disjointed, sorry.)

The problem, though, WoF, is that Christia is NOT our world. It cannot be, not by any stretch of the imagination. I don't believe it could even be anywhere located in our universe; it would have to be a completely separate universe. How then can the Bible exist in a completely separate universe, where the names "Abraham" and "Moses" and places like "Egypt" or "Caanan" would mean nothing?

And why would they know the name "Jesus Christ", a son of Adam who lived two thousand years ago by our record? A name which has never gone beyond our orbit, despite the fact that angels proclaim His praise forever?

Again, I am not saying Christia should be part of Earth or vice versa. The CC is simply trying to address the issue of Christia's history, a history which I believe should include Christ. How will we do that? That is a question we must all work together to answer. It is, in large part, why, IMHO, the committee was formed. As someone else suggested it could be as simple as a "long ago and far, far away..." scenario.

And if you take that strain far enough, you could say all fantasy is wrong; because the name "Jesus" is the name which shall be praised forever, yet it is a name known only to the children of Adam. To have other creatures know God the Son by any other name is against Scripture, because it is not "at the name of Aslan every knee shall bow." But they could not know him by the name Jesus Christ, because that is a name given only to the children of Adam for salvation, and not to any other species (if I may use the word). Nor was the life of our Savior lived in any other world, but in our world. But that's all reductio ad absurdum. I have no problems with fantasy nor do I believe God prohibits it.

Nor do I believe God prohibits fantasy, why else would He have given us such wonderful imaginations? To use your previous examples of Middle Earth and Narnia, however, where is Jesus mentioned? He is not. It is not my argument that He should have been. I believe the path of salvation can be found in these great works without even mentioning Jesus' name. In fact, people have been led to Christ by showing them the Scriptural principles these great authors applied in their works.

The fact remains, however, that Jesus WAS included in Christia at its inception and I am extremely uncomfortable with the suggestion that He should now be excluded simply because it's not convenient for some to have Him there now. Again, we have been given tremendous powers of imagination. I think we should put them to use to figure this out.

To boil it down, WoF, and don't think that I'm saying anything against you, because I love you my dear sister, but to boil it down, the point is that we cannot base other universes by our "rules." The Bible was written to the children of Adam, and to the children of Adam only. To force other universes to abide by the identical principles is uncomfortable at best, and ludicrous at worst.

See above, but remember, I'm only arguing for magic being banned for use by believers because God was included in the creation of the Christia universe. If Blessed-one had wanted yet another medieval fantasy rpg she could have simply started the thing in "Other Worlds" rather than making Christia to be separate, as something to honor God. If it were just like those "Other Worlds" rpg universes we would not be having this debate.

But this should not really surprise you. We once lived according to the law under the law, but after that faith is come, we are no longer under the law, but under grace. So that we are now dead to the law and alive to grace.

If we, being one creature, can be made so different, imagine what glorious differences God may have designed into other worlds.

Well, I've used this very principle in a paragraph above. Yes, we are under grace, I know that, but we still must live lives that honor God and do not fly in the face of His commandments. 1) Love Him with all your heart, all your strength, all your mind. 2) Love others as yourself. Is it love if we do the thing He says do not do?

What glorious differences God may have made into other worlds! Amen! And, what ways He would have to introduce Himself to the inhabitants of those worlds. His Word is His Word, no matter where, or when, we are talking about. Again, I'm not talking about other worlds. My only concern is Christia. I do not think characters who claim to honor God would use magic. I do not want to rob those characters of the power of God, which He promises us in His word. Paladin Dave calls it Holy Energy. I call it mana. It is my contention that good aligned characters should not use magic. I'm sticking to it.

I think the CC needs to come up with a decision here. We need to move on. Although I do enjoy the debate, Shadow.

 

[Woman of Faith]

By the way, Shadow, great post in response to Star! Amen and Amen!

 

[StarSplitter87]

And what? Is this a contest on who can out knowledge Star in our mutual faith?

Yes, I am extremely stupid when it comes to the bible, practices outside of my own personal experiences, and relatively naive in my ideas and impressions of other religions. No, I don't know anything about religion as a whole even though my mother went to a christian college and majored in Ancient History. In fact, my entire knowledge base is extremely limited because I have the worst memory on the face of this Earth. I mise well be compared to Dory from Finding Nemo.

So ya, you two are most certainly going to outwit me when it comes to a shooting contest on who's the better faith expert.

Let us continue with our DEBATE which is more important such as the conditions in Christia and how Jesus choose to appear to them instead of this bickering. "You're wrong"..."No, you're wrong."..."No, you misunderstood me."

GET ON WITH IT! SERIOUSLY. Sam asked for the debate to end. This isn't about getting in the last word. I believe there is an entire thread devoted to such discussions elsewhere.

Let us get back on focus please.

~Star

 

[Shadowseldil]

Listen, Star, I figured you would know I wasn't taking any potshots at you. The last thing I want is to stir up conflict, especially between a sister in Christ, but the Word of God is sufficient for correction, and I felt that, in love, you needed to be corrected. Please, don't become defensive about it. Take it, learn from it, form your own decisions from what the Word says.
I meant what I said in love; please don't twist it into something of hate. Please?

And you are wrong one one other point: I have the worse memory in the world. Numerous people have actually compared me to Dory. So don't feel bad. Remember, "not many noble, not many mighty, not many wise." And I'm very lucky, 'cuz I'm not any of those.

Unfortunately, there is only one thing more I can say of the issue. I think that Christa MUST include God the Son, though I cannot understand that he would be named Jesus or the Christ, since both of those are Greek words ("Jesus" meaning "Savior" or "God is Salvation"; "Christ" meaning "Anointed"). We might as well call Him "Joshua Messiah" or "Anointed Savior" since those are identical names, albeit in different languages.
Also, I agree that there would be a Holy Word given to their creation, but the Bible is God's Holy Word to the children of Adam. Their Holy Word would contain much of the same things our Bible would (again, it wouldn't be called "Bible," the Greek word for "Book"), because, as WoF so constantly points out (), God is immutable. However, he has different purposes for different occasions, so it would also contain differences (ESPECIALLY as regards history, since much of our Bible is history). Their Holy Word could not be the same because they couldn't have history from our world.

So I don't want you to misunderstand, WoF. I fully agree that the thread needs to contain God the Son and the Holy Word, but names and such, well, they COULD be the same (God can do anything, after all), but it is not of His character to do it that way, not as I know Him. God is very direct and directly pertinent