What is the strong delusion God will send in the end time?

Alfred Persson said in post 1:

A "UFO" landing would render all the world's religions obsolete, allowing the "man of sin" to rise up against all called God or that is worshiped.

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Regarding "A 'UFO' landing would render all the world's religions obsolete", actually, it wouldn't, at least not for Biblical Christians.

Some people feel that Christians mustn't believe in the existence of aliens, for then Christians could be deceived by entities, such as Satan and other fallen angelic or demonic beings, claiming to be aliens. But the existence of aliens doesn't require that all aliens must be good, just as the existence of angels doesn't require that all angels must be good. Christians would have to evaluate the goodness of any alien in the same way that they would have to evaluate the goodness of any angel: by the doctrine that he teaches (Galatians 1:8), by his faithfulness to God's Word the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4; 1 Timothy 4:1, John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4), by his obedience to YHWH God (Mark 12:29-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18b). Also, the Bible doesn't say that Satan appears as a good alien, but it does say that he can appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). So worrying about being deceived only by "aliens" is a dangerous distraction. Christians need to also be careful of being deceived even by angels of light.

At some point in our future, an army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders will come upon the earth (Revelation 9:16-19). If they descend from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as aliens. But they and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") could (falsely) say that they are YHWH God's main army. In fact, they could be loyal to Lucifer (Satan, the dragon, Revelation 12:9). The 4 fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates who will lead this army (Revelation 9:14-16) could employ it to make mankind completely desperate before its complete takeover by Lucifer and the Antichrist mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9 to 13:18). For when the army starts killing 1/3 of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin one of the biggest deceptions ever wrought on mankind. For the Antichrist, who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the Prime Minister of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco, could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels, and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

It's at this point that Lucifer and his fallen angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in gigantic, magnificent golden spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars", Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon. The "Champ de Mars" is the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. After landing there, Lucifer, a literal 7-headed dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), could emerge in great splendor and command his angels to capture the army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders, who could then pretend to defect from serving YHWH to serving Lucifer. Lucifer could then confirm that he has come to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, who he could say is his only-begotten "Son", called upon him (like in an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the unsaved world as the saviors of mankind. And the unsaved world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even YHWH God's main army.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist and a speaking (possibly android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a (possibly scarification) mark of the Antichrist, either on their right hand or forehead, consisting of either the Antichrist's name or some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18). After Lucifer and the Antichrist have ruled the world for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send 7 vials of wrath against the unsaved world (Revelation 16).

Near the end of the 7 vials, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) to battle against YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon as a staging area, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:2-21).

Alfred Persson said in post 1:

Its interesting that a common frog species in Egypt's Nile, which might be the frog John sees in his vision (Rev 16:13), is the Ptychadena mascareniensis, widespread in savannas from Sierra Leone eastward through West Africa, and northward to Egypt.

Its also known as the Mascarene Rocket Frog because it can fly by expelling a jet of water from its bladder, propelling it forward.

Then the imagery is suggesting the major lie or deception used by the Satanic Trinity to deceive the earth involves UFOs and perhaps their bio-technology.

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Regarding "the major lie or deception used by the Satanic Trinity to deceive the earth", the Antichrist will have a False Prophet who will work amazing miracles by which people will be deceived (Revelation 13:12-14, Revelation 19:20, cf. Matthew 24:24). And God will send strong delusion on unrepentant people so that they will believe "the" lie (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12; in the original Greek there is a "the" before "lie"), which could be the antichrist lie that has been around since the first century AD (2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), and which in the future will deceive the world into worshipping both Lucifer (Satan) the dragon and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the man of sin (2 Thessalonians 2:3-9), as God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). The antichrist lie denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), and denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7), which denial is one of the key doctrines of Gnosticism.

It's important for Christians to realize that during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this won't require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, Jesus himself isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' 2nd coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' 2nd coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus, returned to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is so important to know when and how the real Jesus' 2nd coming will happen (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), while Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And he rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the first book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). Satan may be worshipped not as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could lie and say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could lie and say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself with only the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians now rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as God (the Son) along with God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

The mystery of lawlessness is that you can laugh as the Devil laughs, and not be deceived.

Everyone who laughs as the Devil laughs, is decieved

But until now, the world has not known this, nor will it before it's too late.

Lord, delete every lie.

We fixed it.

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:7-12


This is nothing new, as the scripture says the mystery of lawlessness is already at work.

The signs and lying wonders which includes but not limited to: Fire from heaven, is seen in Deuteronomy 13:1-4

1 "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods'--which you have not known--'and let us serve them,' 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.

So we see the strong delusion is the false messiah doing signs and lying wonders, which includes fire from heaven [lightning] from the temple in Jerusalem. He will be claiming to be the Messiah, as well as the Iman Mahdi, Buddha, Krishna...

For the Lord God is testing you ...

He will be destroyed personally by The Lord Jesus Christ by the brightness of His coming.


Peace to you!


JLB

TillICollapse said:

Where did the spiritual seeds reside during the flood and the destruction of all flesh, and after it ?

ETA: I'm assuming you're not saying that disembodied nephilim spirits are one-and-the-same as this *seed*.

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A seed of evil doers is not passed along by physical sex, neither is the serpents seed physical in nature, but rather spiritual.

If a you kill a mans body who is possessed with and evil spirit, you only kill the body of man and not the evil spirit.

That is why all of mans physical weaponry and carnal warfare will never bring peace on this earth, because the evil seed working in this wicked generation is spiritual.

JLB777 said:

So we see the strong delusion is the false messiah doing signs and lying wonders, which includes fire from heaven [lightning] from the temple in Jerusalem. He will be claiming to be the Messiah, as well as the Iman Mahdi, Buddha, Krishna...

For the Lord God is testing you ...

He will be destroyed personally by The Lord Jesus Christ by the brightness of His coming.


Peace to you!


JLB

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Hi JLB, I don't think the Antichrist-beast is going to claim to be those other figures as well. I think he is going to deny them, and claim to be God in the flesh. Which none of those figure claimed, or are supposed to claim like the mahdi.

InSpiritInTruth said:

A seed of evil doers is not passed along by physical sex, neither is the serpents seed physical in nature, but rather spiritual.

If a you kill a mans body who is possessed with and evil spirit, you only kill the body of man and not the evil spirit.

That is why all of mans physical weaponry and carnal warfare will never bring peace on this earth, because the evil seed working in this wicked generation is spiritual.

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You didn't really answer my question:

Where did the spiritual seeds reside during the flood and the destruction of all flesh, and after it ?

Do you think more sons of God mixed their spiritual seed with more women ?

TillICollapse said:

You didn't really answer my question:

Where did the spiritual seeds reside during the flood and the destruction of all flesh, and after it ?

Do you think more sons of God mixed their spiritual seed with more women ?

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The sons of God are angels, who are also spirits. I believe Jude speaks of those angels prior to the flood who left their first estate here...

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but lefttheir own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

But angels when loosed can go to and fro in the earth, just as it was with Satan, Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

That was until he was cast out of heaven down to earth after Christ ascended. Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan angels are evil spirits who corrupt the hearts and minds of men, making of them that seed of evil doers.

Even scripture shows God sending forth evil angels to afflict the people.

Psalm 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

So those who are of the corrupt seed (serpents seed) are also given over to these evils spirits. Just as we saw in Jesus day when he cast out evil spirits and devils.

But like I said before, the evil seed is not a flesh and blood seed, but rather spiritual. Just as Gods seed of promise is in those who are born again in Christ are spirit.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

But speaking of the woman, and the evil angels, Paul said something which many do not understand referring to a woman covering her head.

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

And that is how the evil angels come in unto woman and plant seed, it is through the head.

InSpiritInTruth said:

The sons of God are angels, who are also spirits. I believe Jude speaks of those angels prior to the flood who left their first estate here...

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but lefttheir own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

But angels when loosed can go to and fro in the earth, just as it was with Satan, Job 1:7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

That was until he was cast out of heaven down to earth after Christ ascended. Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan angels are evil spirits who corrupt the hearts and minds of men, making of them that seed of evil doers.

Even scripture shows God sending forth evil angels to afflict the people.

Psalm 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

So those who are of the corrupt seed (serpents seed) are also given over to these evils spirits. Just as we saw in Jesus day when he cast out evil spirits and devils.

But like I said before, the evil seed is not a flesh and blood seed, but rather spiritual. Just as Gods seed of promise is in those who are born again in Christ are spirit.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

But speaking of the woman, and the evil angels, Paul said something which many do not understand referring to a woman covering her head.

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

And that is how the evil angels come in unto woman and plant seed, it is through the head.

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So let me see if I understand what you're saying:

*Prior to the flood, the Sons of God went in through the head of women, and this is what created the Nephilim offspring, yes ? IOW ... these women were impregnated through their heads by the Sons of God ?

* After the flood, the angels of Satan (whom you are equating with Son of God, I can't figure out if you're equation them) still have access to impregnating women through their head with spiritual seed, and creating Nephilim remnants (as previously referenced in this thread).

* The women who are impregnated through the head are already of the corrupt seed.

If i'm misreading what you're saying, then spell out plainly (without preaching) ...

* How did the Sons of God get Nephilim through women prior to the flood ?
* How was there still remnants of the Nephilim after ?

I understand using the scripture references, but I'm also looking for you to spell out the birds-and-bees logistics here. If it's through the head, okay ... but are you implying a woman can become physically pregnant through spiritual seed in her head ? Logistics here please. I'm not asking for debate either, I'm asking your opinion for the details Thanks so far for answering me btw, I appreciate it

TillICollapse said:

So let me see if I understand what you're saying:

*Prior to the flood, the Sons of God went in through the head of women, and this is what created the Nephilim offspring, yes ? IOW ... these women were impregnated through their heads by the Sons of God ?

* After the flood, the angels of Satan (whom you are equating with Son of God, I can't figure out if you're equation them) still have access to impregnating women through their head with spiritual seed, and creating Nephilim remnants (as previously referenced in this thread).

* The women who are impregnated through the head are already of the corrupt seed.

If i'm misreading what you're saying, then spell out plainly (without preaching) ...

* How did the Sons of God get Nephilim through women prior to the flood ?
* How was there still remnants of the Nephilim after ?

I understand using the scripture references, but I'm also looking for you to spell out the birds-and-bees logistics here. If it's through the head, okay ... but are you implying a woman can become physically pregnant through spiritual seed in her head ? Logistics here please. I'm not asking for debate either, I'm asking your opinion for the details Thanks so far for answering me btw, I appreciate it

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The sons of God coming in unto the daughters of men and making giants (men of renown) was just a sign of the greater spiritual giants (great men) to come in the last days.

The Lord often shows things first in natural way, to be symbolic of the greater spiritual things to come. Just as the Lord spoke by the prophets in similitudes. Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

So though there was literal giants born of women prior to the flood, the symbolism of this points to spiritual giants to come in the last days.

Let me ask you this. Do you understand what the 2 spiritual seeds are? The 2 seeds are shown here...

Genesis 3:14-15

King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

InSpiritInTruth said:

The sons of God coming in unto the daughters of men and making giants (men of renown) was just a sign of the greater spiritual giants (great men) to come in the last days.

The Lord often shows things first in natural way, to be symbolic of the greater spiritual things to come. Just as the Lord spoke by the prophets in similitudes. Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

So though there was literal giants born of women prior to the flood, the symbolism of this points to spiritual giants to come in the last days.

Let me ask you this. Do you understand what the 2 spiritual seeds are? The 2 seeds are shown here...

Genesis 3:14-15

King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

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Dude ... you're still not answering my question lol.

How did the sons of God create giants with human women ? I'm not looking for simply "it was spiritual" ... I'm looking for specifics if you have them. Such as, did they cause spiritual birth in these women to produce PHYSICAL nephilim/giants ? I'm comparing the Holy Spirit to cause physical birth in Mary, for example.

You've already said it was spiritual ... I get that. And you've mentioned it coming through the heads of women.

So you have a Sons of god being, and a woman. How does a nephilim result from that ? What takes places, step by step ?

Also ... again ... after the flood and all flesh was wiped out, how was there still remnants ? Again, you've already said "spiritual" ... does this mean more sons of God were effecting women ? Or was there still some other way these nephilim remnants existed ?

I think my questions are pretty clear ... but now I'm repeating myself over and over, so if you aren't understanding my questions, please let me know.

TillICollapse said:

Dude ... you're still not answering my question lol.

How did the sons of God create giants with human women ? I'm not looking for simply "it was spiritual" ... I'm looking for specifics if you have them. Such as, did they cause spiritual birth in these women to produce PHYSICAL nephilim/giants ? I'm comparing the Holy Spirit to cause physical birth in Mary, for example.

You've already said it was spiritual ... I get that. And you've mentioned it coming through the heads of women.

So you have a Sons of god being, and a woman. How does a nephilim result from that ? What takes places, step by step ?

Also ... again ... after the flood and all flesh was wiped out, how was there still remnants ? Again, you've already said "spiritual" ... does this mean more sons of God were effecting women ? Or was there still some other way these nephilim remnants existed ?

I think my questions are pretty clear ... but now I'm repeating myself over and over, so if you aren't understanding my questions, please let me know.

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If you don't understand the difference between the 2 spiritual seeds (flesh and Spirit) of Genesis 3:15 then you won't be able to grasp what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to be vague, but to some it's like speaking in Chinese.

And yes, Mary conceiving by the Holy Spirit is a good example of how Spirit can plant that spiritual seed.

As a matter of fact, the Holy Spirit is that seed of promise (woman's seed) which is mentioned in Genesis 3:15. When we are born again from above we receive that spiritual seed of promise in Christ.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So much in the same way God plants his seed in us by His Spirit, Satan and his angels also sows their spiritual seed in the hearts and minds of wicked men by causing them to believe a lie.

Psalm 37:28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

InSpiritInTruth said:

If you don't understand the difference between the 2 spiritual seeds (flesh and Spirit) of Genesis 3:15 then you won't be able to grasp what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to be vague, but to some it's like speaking in Chinese.

And yes, Mary conceiving by the Holy Spirit is a good example of how Spirit can plant that spiritual seed.

As a matter of fact, the Holy Spirit is that seed of promise (woman's seed) which is mentioned in Genesis 3:15. When we are born again from above we receive that spiritual seed of promise in Christ.

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Now you're giving me the run around. If you don't know the answer to the question, feel free to just say as much. I'm not trying to corner you, I'm trying to see the physical manifesting aspects of what you're saying is spiritual.

The Holy Spirit caused Mary to become pregnant. It apparently fertilized her egg, or caused her egg to become fertilized.

Male sperm can fertilize a female ovum (egg).

In the case of Abraham and Sarah, perhaps Yahweh, or an Elohim, caused Sarah's menstrual cycle to start up again, in combination with Abraham's sperm (presumedly).

In the case of "being born again of Spirit", this is done through the Holy Spirit in an individual and it effects the person. A male does not become pregnant with a human. A female does not give birth when she receives the Spirit of Christ (arguably). I may argue that the receiving of the Holy Spirit is reflected physically in a person.

I believe I have seen and interacted with angels that are not just spiritual, but are PHYSICAL. Touch, see, eat with, physical.

Thus there are plenty examples of spiritual reflecting in, and manifesting, physically.

So now, back again to the Sons of God and women ... how does a Nephilim come about ? Also, how does this happen after the flood ? And again ... if you don't know the details (sperm, egg, menstrual period, etc) ... you can just say as much.

The seed of the enemy is arguably within all men who are bound over to sin, where the seed of the Son does not take root, etc. Chaff. The Pharisees, Teachers of the Law, those whom were told the devil was their father, etc. Yes ?

The seed of God is what struggles to take root, the different types of soil, the wheat, etc. It is a struggle between the two.

Yes ?

So how do the Sons of God produce nephilim through women before, and after the flood ? What mechanisms are spiritually effected ... is the sin nature fertilized by an evil spirit and out comes a giant physical baby ? You see what I'm asking ? Are you saying that seed gets planted in the hearts of these women and out comes physical giants, and this happened both before and after the flood ?

I am not trying to be rude in any way whatsoever ... I'm multitasking so I'm coming across as direct. I apologize for that lol. And again, I'm not trying to be rude, but I feel as though you are responding to me with "preacher-bot" talk. If you quote a scripture, explain it in detail how this translates practically in the physical specifically as it concerns the mating of Sons of God with women to produce physical giants both before and after the flood. If you want to dive into the seed of the enemy, the seed of Christ, etc ... go for it, but I'm asking a specific question about HOW the spiritual fertilization of a woman produces a PHYSICAL being apart from the Holy Spirit. For example, you mentioned something about women's heads being an entry point I believe ? Would that cause impregnation to where a physical being is produced without the need for male sperm ?

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So much in the same way God plants his seed in us by His Spirit, Satan and his angels also sows their spiritual seed in the hearts and minds of wicked men by causing them to believe a lie.

Psalm 37:28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

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TillICollapse said:

Now you're giving me the run around. If you don't know the answer to the question, feel free to just say as much. I'm not trying to corner you, I'm trying to see the physical manifesting aspects of what you're saying is spiritual.

The Holy Spirit caused Mary to become pregnant. It apparently fertilized her egg, or caused her egg to become fertilized.

Male sperm can fertilize a female ovum (egg).

In the case of Abraham and Sarah, perhaps Yahweh, or an Elohim, caused Sarah's menstrual cycle to start up again, in combination with Abraham's sperm (presumedly).

In the case of "being born again of Spirit", this is done through the Holy Spirit in an individual and it effects the person. A male does not become pregnant with a human. A female does not give birth when she receives the Spirit of Christ (arguably). I may argue that the receiving of the Holy Spirit is reflected physically in a person.

I believe I have seen and interacted with angels that are not just spiritual, but are PHYSICAL. Touch, see, eat with, physical.

Thus there are plenty examples of spiritual reflecting in, and manifesting, physically.

So now, back again to the Sons of God and women ... how does a Nephilim come about ? Also, how does this happen after the flood ? And again ... if you don't know the details (sperm, egg, menstrual period, etc) ... you can just say as much.

The seed of the enemy is arguably within all men who are bound over to sin, where the seed of the Son does not take root, etc. Chaff. The Pharisees, Teachers of the Law, those whom were told the devil was their father, etc. Yes ?

The seed of God is what struggles to take root, the different types of soil, the wheat, etc. It is a struggle between the two.

Yes ?

So how do the Sons of God produce nephilim through women before, and after the flood ? What mechanisms are spiritually effected ... is the sin nature fertilized by an evil spirit and out comes a giant physical baby ? You see what I'm asking ? Are you saying that seed gets planted in the hearts of these women and out comes physical giants, and this happened both before and after the flood ?

I am not trying to be rude in any way whatsoever ... I'm multitasking so I'm coming across as direct. I apologize for that lol. And again, I'm not trying to be rude, but I feel as though you are responding to me with "preacher-bot" talk. If you quote a scripture, explain it in detail how this translates practically in the physical specifically as it concerns the mating of Sons of God with women to produce physical giants both before and after the flood. If you want to dive into the seed of the enemy, the seed of Christ, etc ... go for it, but I'm asking a specific question about HOW the spiritual fertilization of a woman produces a PHYSICAL being apart from the Holy Spirit. For example, you mentioned something about women's heads being an entry point I believe ? Would that cause impregnation to where a physical being is produced without the need for male sperm ?

Click to expand...

The problem is your trying compare physical things with physical. It may sound absurd that the sons of God (angel/ spirits) did not have actual physical relations with the daughters of men to produce these giants, but I believe it to be true.

I said it before, I'll say it again. The seed is spiritual even though it did manifest itself in the natural.

But like I said before, these things were given to us for a sign to represent the spiritual giants who would be working in the world in the last days.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I believe its a good possibility this may be the case. Satan does traverse the heavens. Not just the earth alone. He has a specific hang-out, and a mode of operation. He also has innumerable armies, as does the archangels. Else there would be no war in heaven. Someone had to be fighting, right? I dont think Satans seat is the physical realm, but the spiritual one which rides along side ours. I do think they can make appearances.

I think in certain parts of the bible where directions and lands are discussed, many times are describing various locations relevant to the throne. In other words, various sectors of the sea of glass which is spread beneath the throne.


Zechariah
6And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. 2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; 3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. 4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? 5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. 6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country. 7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth. 8 Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.



Psalm 104:26
There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.


Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.




Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

InSpiritInTruth said:

The problem is your trying compare physical things with physical. It may sound absurd that the sons of God (angel/ spirits) did not have actual physical relations with the daughters of men to produce these giants, but I believe it to be true.

I said it before, I'll say it again. The seed is spiritual even though it did manifest itself in the natural.

But like I said before, these things were given to us for a sign to represent the spiritual giants who would be working in the world in the last days.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Click to expand...

It doesn't sound absurd to me that a spiritual being could cause a woman to become pregnant. I already stated, indirectly, that I believe Mary conceived via the Holy Spirit, and that Abraham and Sarah conceived via spiritual aide either from Yahweh or Elohim (whatever that may mean specifically), and that the two seeds spoken about in Genesis 3 are referencing the seed of the serpent/devil and the seed of Christ, etc.

In my experience, the spiritual things of God manifest and/or are reflected in the physical. So to say that I'm comparing the spiritual with the physical as though it's a mistake I'm making, and then in the next sentence to directly state the spiritual produced something physical ... there is irony there, since you are making the same comparison I am making lol.

You don't have to state again that the seed is spiritual. I heard you every time you said it. You don't have to read from a cue card here ... I'm asking you something else.

Have you seen and experienced spiritual things beyond reading about them ? If you have, I presume then you know that there is a relationship between spiritual things and physical things.

Q1: If the seed was spiritual concerning the making of the nephilim, HOW precisely was this accomplished with women ? Was it specific kinds of women only ? Was it through their head ? Describe the process, if you can, in other words. And can you describe what a Sons of God looked like both spiritually and (if there as a physical component to them), physically ?

Q2: You said these giants were a sign ... okay, so what about AFTER the flood ? Were they a sign also ? And again, HOW were there remnants after the flood of the nephilim ? Were Sons of God still planting spiritual seed with women and they were producing more nephilim ? Was there some seed left in one of Noah's sons/daughters line ? How was this accomplished ? Is it still going on today do you think (yes I am aware of Eph 6 already) ?

I'm not trying to be rude, honestly ... I'm interested in how the cohesion of your ideas go together not just in word, but in practical reality both past and present. I get that you keep referring to the same puzzle pieces, now I'm asking you to complete the picture more clearly, if you can, because I'm interested in how you see it coming together specifically. There are "missing links" in your chain, but I can't tell if they are really missing and you don't want to say as much, or you just don't get that I'm asking for you to offer them up and you actually already have an idea as to what they are lol.

TillICollapse said:

It doesn't sound absurd to me that a spiritual being could cause a woman to become pregnant. I already stated, indirectly, that I believe Mary conceived via the Holy Spirit, and that Abraham and Sarah conceived via spiritual aide either from Yahweh or Elohim (whatever that may mean specifically), and that the two seeds spoken about in Genesis 3 are referencing the seed of the serpent/devil and the seed of Christ, etc.

In my experience, the spiritual things of God manifest and/or are reflected in the physical. So to say that I'm comparing the spiritual with the physical as though it's a mistake I'm making, and then in the next sentence to directly state the spiritual produced something physical ... there is irony there, since you are making the same comparison I am making lol.

You don't have to state again that the seed is spiritual. I heard you every time you said it. You don't have to read from a cue card here ... I'm asking you something else.

Have you seen and experienced spiritual things beyond reading about them ? If you have, I presume then you know that there is a relationship between spiritual things and physical things.

Q1: If the seed was spiritual concerning the making of the nephilim, HOW precisely was this accomplished with women ? Was it specific kinds of women only ? Was it through their head ? Describe the process, if you can, in other words. And can you describe what a Sons of God looked like both spiritually and (if there as a physical component to them), physically ?

Q2: You said these giants were a sign ... okay, so what about AFTER the flood ? Were they a sign also ? And again, HOW were there remnants after the flood of the nephilim ? Were Sons of God still planting spiritual seed with women and they were producing more nephilim ? Was there some seed left in one of Noah's sons/daughters line ? How was this accomplished ? Is it still going on today do you think (yes I am aware of Eph 6 already) ?

I'm not trying to be rude, honestly ... I'm interested in how the cohesion of your ideas go together not just in word, but in practical reality both past and present. I get that you keep referring to the same puzzle pieces, now I'm asking you to complete the picture more clearly, if you can, because I'm interested in how you see it coming together specifically. There are "missing links" in your chain, but I can't tell if they are really missing and you don't want to say as much, or you just don't get that I'm asking for you to offer them up and you actually already have an idea as to what they are lol.

Click to expand...

Well, at least you can grasp how spiritual seed can manifest itself in physical form. But as far as me describing the process that takes place in the womb of woman, you've got me?

I mean, I couldn't even describe the process of a natural child being formed in the womb, much less the spiritual process.

Ecclesiastes 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

I don't believe science and medicine even truly understands the miracle of birth, and how the spirit of life makes the body alive.

But as I said before, the natural things were similitudes (signs) of the spiritual things to come. As evil angels and spirits of devils are working in mankind as we speak.

Only those who are sealed in the forehead by Gods mark are protected from these evil spirits entering in unto them, and giving them over to a mind of confusion.

InSpiritInTruth said:

Well, at least you can grasp how spiritual seed can manifest itself in physical form. But as far as me describing the process that takes place in the womb of woman, you've got me?

I mean, I couldn't even describe the process of a natural child being formed in the womb, much less the spiritual process.

Ecclesiastes 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

I don't believe science and medicine even truly understands the miracle of birth, and how the spirit of life makes the body alive.

But as I said before, the natural things were similitudes (signs) of the spiritual things to come. As evil angels and spirits of devils are working in mankind as we speak.

Only those who are sealed in the forehead by Gods mark are protected from these evil spirits entering in unto them, and giving them over to a mind of confusion.

Click to expand...

Dude, never mind lol.

southcountry said in post 36:

I dont think Satans seat is the physical realm, but the spiritual one which rides along side ours.

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Revelation 13:2b refers to when Satan/Lucifer (the dragon, Revelation 12:9) will give the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) Satan's own earthly throne (seat) and power, so that the Antichrist will have power over all the nations of the earth (Revelation 13:7). This is what Satan offered Jesus, if he would worship Satan (Luke 4:5-7). In the first century AD, Satan's earthly throne was in the city of Pergamum (in what is now Turkey) (Revelation 2:12-13). Satan's earthly throne could be the Great Altar of Pergamum, also called the Pergamon Altar, which in ancient times was sometimes included as one of the 7 wonders of the world.

It may not be just a coincidence that shortly after the Pergamon Altar was moved to Berlin around 1900 AD, both World Wars were started from Berlin, or that "the Nazi-era architect Albert Speer used the Pergamon Altar as the model for the Zeppelintribüne, 1934-37. The Führer's pulpit was in the center of the tribune" (Pergamon Altar - Wikipedia) (quote has been deleted for some reason). When the Antichrist is given power over the whole earth (Revelation 13:7), his throne could be located in the center of the actual Pergamon Altar, which he could move from Berlin to a main temple to himself (and to Lucifer/Satan) in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

southcountry said in post 36:

Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Click to expand...

Satan, a literal, 7-headed, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), also called Leviathan (Isaiah 27:1, Psalms 74:14, Job 41:1,34), could have begun his existence as a dinosaur born some 66 million years ago, near the end the age of the dinosaurs. Over millions of years before his birth, his dinosaur species could have evolved (or been miraculously granted by God) to have consciousness as we know it. And his 7-headedness, which could have been a fortuitous (or a miraculous) mutation, could have been heralded by his species as the arrival of a super-consciousness into the world. As he grew up as a conscious dinosaur, Leviathan could have come to know and worship God with all his heart. God could have then granted him immortality and taken him into heaven to serve God as a cherub. Cherubim are a type of angelic being (Ezekiel 10) which could include individuals shaped like different animals, like how seraphim are a different type of angelic being (Isaiah 6:2-3) which includes individuals shaped like different animals (Revelation 4:7-8). As a cherub in heaven, Leviathan could have been assigned to the office of "the morning star", and so been given the name "Lucifer" (which means "the morning star").

After spending some 66 million years in heaven as a very contented cherub, perhaps even as one of the greatest angelic beings in heaven, Lucifer could have been assigned by God to go to the earth to be a "covering cherub" over the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14), to watch over that special, local garden and its special, individual humans named Adam and Eve miraculously created by God only some 6,000 years ago. God could have also at that time given the as-yet-unfallen Lucifer authority over all the rest of the earth (cf. Luke 4:5-6). But Lucifer could have chafed at his new assignment, seeing it as wholly beneath his dignity. He could have felt like a long-time chief of staff of a U.S. President would feel if he were suddenly assigned by the President to leave his high position in the White House to go baby-sit two pet salamanders in a hothouse in Alaska.

From Eden, Lucifer could have repeatedly requested God to let him return to his high position in heaven, only to be refused, until Lucifer in his heart fell into rebellion against God and vowed to himself that eventually he would ascend back into heaven and take rule over all the angelic beings there, regardless of what God wanted (Isaiah 14:13-14). And so the fallen Lucifer became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18), which means the "Adversary". While still in Eden, as possibly his first act of open rebellion against God, Satan decided to deceive Eve into disobeying God (Genesis 3), knowing that this would result in her (and her offspring) becoming mortal (Genesis 2:17). In the future, he will deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into worshipping himself and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-8), knowing that this will result in billions of people ending up in eternal suffering (Revelation 14:9-11), the same eternal suffering that he knows he himself will end up in (Revelation 12:12c, Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

Lucifer will deceive the world into worshipping him after he loses a future war in heaven at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and is cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:7 to 13:4). But instead of coming down looking defeated, he could descend to the earth in a magnificent, gigantic golden spaceship for all the world to see. The world could see him as an alien, but he could slither forth from his spaceship and say something like: "Greetings! Be not alarmed. I assure you that I am no alien, but a fellow earthling, born and raised on this planet millions of years ago. I have come to help you through this terrible tribulation which you are experiencing, and to show you how you might eventually return with me back into a much better, higher realm of existence wholly beyond this evil, material universe".

He could then foist upon the world an updated version of an ancient Gnostic lie: "Listen, my fellow earthlings! None of us belong here. We didn't start out here, but all started out as wholly-spiritual beings, even wholly-divine beings, residing in utter bliss from all eternity in the Pleroma, what you would call Heaven, the higher realm which I will eventually take you back to. During the endless ages of our past existence in the Pleroma, we were not averse to partaking in a great variety of different entertainments. So when YHWH, who was one of us, yet of greater consciousness than any one of us, announced that he had devised a marvelous new form of entertainment, we were ready to give it a try.

"YHWH said that he had created a physical universe, which to us was like what you today would call a virtual reality, like the ones you currently create using computers. And he said that we could enter this universe and interact with all of its amazing physical life-forms and objects by temporarily taking upon ourselves physical bodies, which to us was the equivalent of what you today would call a virtual-reality headset, gloves, etc., which some of you wear on your bodies today when you want to wholly immerse yourselves in the virtual realities you create with computers.

"But then YHWH proposed another aspect to his entertainment which we all most foolishly accepted. He said that in order to increase the intensity of our experience in his universe, he would use his greater consciousness to hypnotize each of ours, so that while we were in his universe each of us would think that all we were were physical entities within his material universe; we would completely forget that we were actually wholly-divine beings, and had been from all eternity, dwelling in bliss in the Pleroma.

"When one of us asked YHWH: 'But what if we don't like our experience in your universe and want to exit it and return here to the Pleroma, how could we ever notify you of our wishes when under your hypnotic spell we will have no knowledge of that option?' YHWH answered in a very assuring manner that he would be able to instantly extricate any one of us whom he saw was not enjoying his new entertainment. We all believed him, because he had not yet shown his true nature to anyone. We had no idea that in his heart he was actually an evil, cruel tyrant who all along had been planning to imprison, enslave, and torture all of us within his diabolical device.

"But during my great sufferings in YHWH's physical realm, and the great struggles of my consciousness, my spirit, to find a way of escaping them, my spirit eventually grew in power to be equal to YHWH's, and so I was able to break myself free from his hypnotic spell, and regain all of my divine power. I can show you the way to do the same thing, but you must be willing to join with me now with all of your own consciousnesses, your own spirits. You must be willing to love and worship me now completely, so that the power of all of your spirits might become joined with the power of my own, greater spirit, and eventually break completely free from YHWH's hypnotic spell. Then you will regain all of your own, divine power, like I did, and together we will defeat YHWH, and we will escape this vile, material universe, and ascend back to the Pleroma and to our bliss as gods, doing what we please, forever".

The world will actually believe this lie (or something similar to it), for it will be accompanied by the most amazing miracles (e.g. Revelation 13:13) performed by the power of Lucifer/Satan himself (2 Thessalonians 2:9), and because it will be accompanied by a strong delusion sent by God on the unrepentant world (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). But the world will worship Lucifer (and the Antichrist) for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).