A Complete Skull from Dmanisi

stevevw

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When researching, it's generally a good idea to examine both sides of an argument. It doesn't appear you've done that.



Maybe you don't mean for it to come off that way, but that's exactly what it sounds like. I get the distinct impression that you're regurgitating someone else's argument.



The quote, about the human eye. Are you aware of where it comes from, and the full context of it? You seem like a nice enough guy - my guess is that you got it from some creationist website, one that also didn't bother to show any more than this quote and left out the context. Correct?



Well, they try.
so now im really confused. i have been debating against a person who i think believes in evolution on a christian site and been accused of being a creationist. so if a evolutionists can come here and argue their case which will be as stringent as a creationist, why cant a creationist do the same. they argue their case with stuff that they believe in from a scientific angle and evolutionists argue from all science. both will have party lines and the usual spiel that will comes with their side. both are fairly rigid and both will have some elements of unsubstantiated statements if you look at it fairly
 
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USincognito

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so now im really confused. i have been debating against a person who i think believes in evolution on a christian site and been accused of being a creationist. so if a evolutionists can come here and argue their case which will be as stringent as a creationist, why cant a creationist do the same. they argue their case with stuff that they believe in from a scientific angle and evolutionists argue from all science. both will have party lines and the usual spiel that will comes with their side. both are fairly rigid and both will have some elements of unsubstantiated statements if you look at it fairly

You've been here for a week. Perhaps you should read up more on this subforum, CF in general and responses that have been made to Creationist PRATTs before doing the Gish Gallop and then complaining about not being taken seriously.

If the only thing you know about Nebraska Man is "a pigs tooth" then you are in over your head here.
 
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USincognito

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I would suggest that the Cambrian explosion included man and lions and wolves and ravens and all kinds! All the Cambrian explosion refers to is the creatures that could fossilize in that different past nature.

You could suggest that, but there are zero terrestrial plant or animal species in the Cambrian.

Wikipedia said:
The long-running puzzlement about the appearance of the Cambrian fauna seemingly abruptly and from nowhere, centers on three key points: whether there really was a mass diversification of complex organisms over a relatively short period of time during the early Cambrian; what might have caused such rapid change; and what it would imply about the origin and evolution of animals. Interpretation is difficult due to a limited supply of evidence, based mainly on an incomplete fossil record and chemical signatures remaining in Cambrian rocks.

Even if you can't post links yet, you can cite your work by at least providing a note of some sort at the end.
 
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USincognito

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if you take the duck billed platypus you would think it evolved from a duck like creature or a beaver like creature as its characteristics are similar.

No, you would not. It's bill is nothing like a ducks. It's soft and rubbery and is a snout while the mouth is beneath it. It also has fur, mammary glands and produces soft reptile-like eggs instead of hard-shelled bird eggs. It's tail is hairy, not bare like a beaver, and has more in common with an otter tail than the beaver except for shape.

yet its DNA points to it coming from and related to a kangaroo and koala bear.

The DNA shows it's most closely related to Echidnas... which makes sense given that both are members of Monotremata. They are related to and share a common ancestor with Marsupials, but they are also related to and share a common ancestor with eutherians or true mammals (through the Marsupial line).

Oh, and koala's aren't bears. Their name is just "koala".
 
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stevevw

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sorry lasthero i tried to post it as a quote but it didn't want to let me. are you sure you are not putting a jinx on me now. so i have to do it this way.

When researching, it's generally a good idea to examine both sides of an argument. It doesn't appear you've done that.

why because i got it wrong? if i went through your posts i bet i could find statements which may not be substantiated. i think i have referenced bone.com, how stuff works, nobleprize.com, redorbit.com all science sites. cbn.com, the guardian.com and Wikipedia which i noticed you used. i have also referred to religious and christian sites as well. you seem to be picking out certain statements ive made and focused on them. you also used Wikipedia which has been known to be unreliable.

Maybe you don't mean for it to come off that way, but that's exactly what it sounds like. I get the distinct impression that you're regurgitating someone ease's argument.

you see i do check and compare and i will refer to a number of different sites. the ones with the tissue and the skulls and many others come from science sites, just science. the trouble is if it says the same thing as what you think creationists are saying then i cant help that. the other thing is i have seen quotes statements that are way more off the mark as far as general knowledge is but i dont say hey that's not right you cant say that, i realize what they may be trying to say. not everyone is going to know all the facts, we are not all biologists or archeologists. so we are going to not know all the other factors about the subject. we can only try and learn what we can about it. this doesn't mean you can pose the question or make an opinion about something. if everyone had to completely understand what they are talking about then we would have to go to uni for a few years. other wise no one would be able to comment except the experts.

so what happens when an evolutionists makes a statement that sounds like something they quote off or a christian does the same with say the Turin shroud or something which is put forward with really knowing all the facts. same same. i used the eye not because it sounds like a creationists quote but because it is complex. if you say to me do you understand the context behind it well you better explain it to me because i dont know, im not an optometrist. if you have to be then there will not be many people able to comment. but i do know it is complex and is one way of pointing out the complexity a human.

The quote, about the human eye. Are you aware of where it comes from, and the full context of it? You seem like a nice enough guy - my guess is that you got it from some creationist website, one that also didn't bother to show any more than this quote and left out the context. Correct?



well im not sure, you see i dont have restrictions on my referencing. you seem to have a problem with the creationists not me. i dont specifically use their site in fact being aware that you need to get both sides of the story i tend to refer to non religious sites to get back up as this makes it more valid. in saying that i do notice that each site will have opposing views on things and as i have said before when you look into with an open mind both have a case. so for me the jury is still out on a lot of things. i may debate hard but im still learning.

how come it keeps saying my message is to short. if i keep going i will write a book soon. everytime i try to post it says it is to short and i need to put more. it says to lengthen by i character which i have done 5 times.
Well, they try.
 
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biggles53

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by the way where do you come from what part of the world as sometimes cultures come into play here. believe it or not people can be influenced by there environment and cultures. what means something in one culture or country can mean something different in another.

Well,....see that little flag up there near my name...? You might recognise it, I'm thinking............and that location described up there on the upper right.......look familiar...?
 
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biggles53

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sorry is this some sort of thing that happens in forums. i think i have been a member of this forum this months and have posted about 10 times. so i am new to forums period. the only other forum i belong to is music and i post occasionally.

caught me out sounds like the little boy caught with his hand in the cookie jar. no i will argue for evolution as well if im in the mood. as i said before i keep an open mind, most of my statements have been researched and compared and if you look at my posts the actual content i think you can see that this is my reasoning not some parroting of some religious sect. i dont belong to any religion except Christ.


Ummmm......which makes you a Christian.......

Which is a religion.......

anyway im a little confused what if i was i thought this was a christian site. so if they are a creationist isn't that still a version of Christianity. the saying mining to me means the stuff we do here in australia dig up ore and minerals. i wouldn't even know what they do when they are mining so you will have to explain to me what it means. i would have it a guess it is something to do with trolling as they call it. it certainly isn't that as that has something to do with adding little comments here and there and not backing it up. i respond to any comments, will think about what they say and then do some checking and research to see what it says. a lot of the time its finding out and understanding each others point of view trying to get around the misunderstandings and misinterpretations.

Quote mining is the practice of using a selected part of a quotation, usually of a famous person, with the intent of furthering an argument. The 'despicable' feature is that often the remainder of the quotation (conveniently omitted) represents an entirely different opinion...

Don't do it....!
if you notice a lot of my comments are questions, wondering, asking. like if someone says something i may say then how come it is like this. hopefully we learn off each other. as i said if you bother to read my comments that everyone has a point of view and each person will see it their way. if you have an open mind and try and look at it fairly and squarely then that's all you can do. in fact i think creationists base their belief on proving the bible and god, creation through science. they need to do this as this is their version of belief. though it is not really belief as faith is the belief of things unseen. i can tell you right now i dont base my faith on that as it will never be satisfyingly proved one way or the by stats, facts or any physical proof. faiths a personal thing you cant make it happen by physical evidence. as Christ said to Thomas when he felt his nail holes, greater is the person who believes without seeing.

A questioning, skeptical approach is to be encouraged. The more you seek the truth of your reality, the less likely you will find yourself relying on superstition and "things unseen"....
 
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stevevw

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Well,....see that little flag up there near my name...? You might recognise it, I'm thinking............and that location described up there on the upper right.......look familiar...?

oh OK like i said i am new. that's near me. well you will certainly understand the lingo.
 
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stevevw

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[/b]

Ummmm......which makes you a Christian.......

Which is a religion.......

well sort of but religion can be more to do with the particular way of worship and group you belong to rather than just following the teachings of Christ and being guided by the holy spirit. you can belong to the catholic religion and not be a christian. religions can be not much different to following a footy club.

Quote mining is the practice of using a selected part of a quotation, usually of a famous person, with the intent of furthering an argument. The 'despicable' feature is that often the remainder of the quotation (conveniently omitted) represents an entirely different opinion...

Don't do it....!

well i dont, my intentions are honest and i am seeking answers.

A questioning, skeptical approach is to be encouraged. The more you seek the truth of your reality, the less likely you will find yourself relying on superstition and "things unseen"....

just checking are you a christian. not that you still can have a questioning mind but by the sounds of your last statement you are not. sorry i just checked in those little boxes and it says atheist. ok ive got it now.
you see i have just been accused of something im not and it felt a bit of a witch hunt.
the statement you have made at the end which triggered me to question was "the less likely you will find yourself relying on superstition and things unseen". which is a common language used by atheists. so they to quote the party line that has been parroted from others in their group.
 
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stevevw

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[/b]

Ummmm......which makes you a Christian.......

Which is a religion.......



Quote mining is the practice of using a selected part of a quotation, usually of a famous person, with the intent of furthering an argument. The 'despicable' feature is that often the remainder of the quotation (conveniently omitted) represents an entirely different opinion...

Don't do it....!


A questioning, skeptical approach is to be encouraged. The more you seek the truth of your reality, the less likely you will find yourself relying on superstition and "things unseen"....

do you believe in anything. how come ive ended up debating with probably the only two non Christians on this forum. not that it matters i rather enjoy it. but its sort of like normally people who have the opposite point of view go onto christian sites to do the very thing you are accusing me of. they like to because it challenges everyone but they have be known to go on just to stir things up. to try and convince christians how wrong they are. sort of like the cat among the pigeons.

the more you seek the truth is a big statement. what is the truth, what can be the truth in one society or culture may be different in another. what a persons personal values are may affect his version of what the truth is.[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]different people can define truth in different ways and still be right.

Jesus said i am the way the truth and the light. this truth is said to be above all other truths.
 
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stevevw

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everyone uses someone elses argument that's how we get the info. of course you need to filter it through your own personal point of view but someone elses argument or their words as to what they are saying about the subject is theirs. they are the experts who have made the point you want to refer to. otherwise you would have to be good enough to be the original person who discovered the point in the first place. i think i have written a volume of words and most have been my own with reference to info i have found.

out of interest what do you believe, i gather its along the lines of evolution but what exactly is your opinion on it. do you take the Darwinian view of a more modern view or a combination of views.
 
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FatBurk

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everyone uses someone elses argument that's how we get the info. of course you need to filter it through your own personal point of view but someone elses argument or their words as to what they are saying about the subject is theirs. they are the experts who have made the point you want to refer to. otherwise you would have to be good enough to be the original person who discovered the point in the first place. i think i have written a volume of words and most have been my own with reference to info i have found.

out of interest what do you believe, i gather its along the lines of evolution but what exactly is your opinion on it. do you take the Darwinian view of a more modern view or a combination of views.
I asked you a question.
 
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stevevw

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I asked you a question.

yes and i answered. so i cant refer to anything just go off my own memory and knowledge. i dont know everything. anyone that comments on something is using some aspect of what they have read or found from someone else. anything you tell me on evolution will have reference to something that someone else has said, it stands to reason.
 
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FatBurk

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What if you had been raised by Muslims? what would you think about Jesus?

I asked you a question.

yes and i answered. so i cant refer to anything just go off my own memory and knowledge. i dont know everything. anyone that comments on something is using some aspect of what they have read or found from someone else. anything you tell me on evolution will have reference to something that someone else has said, it stands to reason.
I asked you what you would think of Jesus had you been raised to be a Muslim?
Are you saying that what you think now is what someone else has told you to think?
 
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dad

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I asked you what you would think of Jesus had you been raised to be a Muslim?..
While you wait for the answer, I might suggest that it should be obvious. Muslims think Jesus was a prophet, not God. I think they disbelieve in the Resurrection also. Their prophesies have a Jesus returning to earth as basically a false prophet. They do not know Jesus.
 
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Naraoia

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In natural selection, the environment affects the gene frequency in a population. Even so, natural selection is a mindless and blind process acting on mutations which are random, mindless and blind.
Evolution (which is mindless and blind) will never achieve anything.
That does not follow. Chemical bonds are mindless and blind. Yet they can produce amazing, highly organised structures like crystals.

evolution relies on beneficial mutations that will allow a species to change and adapt to it environment. they become more complex as time goes on. yet why were there so many good and beneficial mutations as opposed to bad mutations which didn't amount to anything.
There are actually few beneficial mutations compared to bad ones or ones that simply don't do a thing. However, many more of the beneficial ones are preserved. Furthermore, things don't have to become more complex as time goes on. Parasites (e.g. this guy) and symbionts (e.g. mitochondria) are classical examples of simplification, but they are probably far from alone.

being that mutations by their very nature are errors in the process of replication or unrepairable damage to DNA how does more improved complex and improved life stem from this.
Beneficial mutations are exactly the same kinds of chemical changes as harmful ones. Their effect depends on where and in what environment they occur.

even a beneficial mutation comes from a random process how do organisms know that this is beneficial in the first place and even if they did some how because it is random how does that new beneficial mutation then become a new part of the organism to use when it was random in the first place.
New parts are rarely truly new. Most of the time, new parts come from old parts by tinkering, reshuffling ingredients, etc. Basically, a beneficial mutation changes a pre-existing part in a way that (1) makes that part better at what it's doing under the circumstances, or (2) gives it a new function.

An example of (1) would be the haemoglobin of bar-headed geese. These birds fly at high altitudes during their migrations over the Himalayas. A single mutation makes their haemoglobin better at capturing oxygen from the thin air.

An example of (2) is the recently published story about the grasshopper mice for whom scorpion venom acts as a painkiller. Normally, scorpion venom triggers pain receptors. The pain receptors of these mice have a modification in one of their surface proteins that makes them respond to the venom by shutting down instead...

DNA is now used as a proof for evolution as all species can be linked through their DNA back to common ancestors. yet this still doesn't fit the evolutionary model. if you take the duck billed platypus you would think it evolved from a duck like creature or a beaver like creature as its characteristics are similar.
Only superficially. Beavers don't lay eggs, ducks don't lay soft-shelled eggs, and the bills of ducks are not made of soft rubbery skin studded with electric sensors. And so on.

yet its DNA points to it coming from and related to a kangaroo and koala bear.
No, no, no. The platypus is no more related to a kangaroo than we are. In fact, humans and kangaroos are more closely related than kangaroos and platypuses. This isn't just indicated by DNA. For example, humans and kangaroos both lack egg shells, bear live young, have nipples (platypuses don't; babies lick milk off mum's fur), separate holes for digestive waste and babies (platypuses have a cloaca), and share many other more obscure traits that platypuses don't possess.

Evolutionary geneticists have often experimented on fruit flies and other rapidly reproducing species to induce mutational changes hoping they would lead to new and better species, but these have all failed to accomplish their goal. No truly new species has ever been produced, let alone a new "basic kind."
I have a feeling you are quoting this from somewhere.

That said, new species have been produced many times in labs, and not even by such extreme approaches as mutagenising poor flies. An example from TalkOrigins' wonderful compilation (bolding mine):

TO said:
Dobzhansky and Pavlovsky (1971) reported a speciation event that occurred in a laboratory culture of Drosophila paulistorum sometime between 1958 and 1963. The culture was descended from a single inseminated female that was captured in the Llanos of Colombia. In 1958 this strain produced fertile hybrids when crossed with conspecifics of different strains from Orinocan. From 1963 onward crosses with Orinocan strains produced only sterile males. Initially no assortative mating or behavioral isolation was seen between the Llanos strain and the Orinocan strains. Later on Dobzhansky produced assortative mating (Dobzhansky 1972).

(Of course, if you have a different species definition in mind, we can discuss that as well. But you have to state which one, because in sexually reproducing organisms, speciation usually refers to the biological species definition [= ability to produce fertile offspring].)

"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." 3
Let me continue the quote.

Darwin 1859 said:
Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real.
[...]
With these facts, here far too briefly and imperfectly given, which show that there is much graduated diversity in the eyes of living crustaceans, and bearing in mind how small the number of living animals is in proportion to those which have become extinct, I can see no very great difficulty (not more than in the case of many other structures) in believing that natural selection has converted the simple apparatus of an optic nerve merely coated with pigment and invested by transparent membrane, into an optical instrument as perfect as is possessed by any member of the great Articulate class.

Yeah. Not to mention that this is evolutionary biology 150+ years ago.

No mechanism has been put forward that even begins to explain how something like the human eye could have been produced by time, chance, natural selection and mutation. but then evolution says that it is with time that this could happen so i guess time itself can allow amazing things.
Actually, a simulation of eye evolution with selection for better images was already around nearly twenty years ago. It does require time, but not as much as you might think - the "pessimistic estimate" mentioned by the paper's title is only a few hundred thousand years from a light-sensitive patch of skin to a vertebrate-like eye.

Evolutionists commonly answer the above criticism by claiming that evolution goes too slowly for us to see it happening today. They used to claim that the real evidence for evolution was in the fossil record of the past, but the fact is that the billions of known fossils do not include a single unequivocal transitional form with transitional structures in the process of evolving.
What does a transitional form with transitional structures in the process of evolving looks like?

Neither is there any clue as to how the one-celled organisms of the primordial world could have evolved into the vast array of complex multi-celled invertebrates of the Cambrian period. Even dogmatic evolutionist Gould admits that:
Gould? Dogmatic? :D
The Cambrian explosion was the most remarkable and puzzling event in the history of life.8 Equally puzzling, however, is how some invertebrate creature in the ancient ocean, with all its "hard parts" on the outside, managed to evolve into the first vertebrate -- that is, the first fish-- with its hard parts all on the inside.
The answer is ridiculously simple. Vertebrates did not evolve from hard-shelled invertebrates but soft-bodied ones.

Hard shells and skeletons originated many times, and they're not terribly hard to evolve. Most shells and skeletons are made of materials that every living thing routinely encounters and/or produces, namely calcium, carbonate and/or phosphate ions.

Even those who believe in rapid evolution recognize that a considerable number of generations would be required for one distinct "kind" to evolve into another more complex kind.
What is a kind?

(And please, please source your quotes and indicate that they are quoted. The above sentence from your post is lifted word for word from an ICR article. What you are doing here is plagiarism.

I would suggest that the Cambrian explosion included man and lions and wolves and ravens and all kinds!
Then, by all means, show me their Cambrian fossils.

All the Cambrian explosion refers to is the creatures that could fossilize in that different past nature.
The problem is that the most famous Cambrian deposits preserve the exact same kinds of creatures that fossilise easily in other circumstances, PLUS tons of ephemeral, soft-bodied things that are virtually absent from the regular fossil record. The bones and teeth of large vertebrates are highly fossilisable, especially compared to squishy beasties like Nectocaris or Pikaia. If they existed in the Cambrian, there should be fossils.

the Cambrian period was a major diversification of organisms. the rate of evolution accelerated and the diversity of life began to resemble that of today. many complex organisms appeared from seemly nowhere. some had no traceable connections to anything in the fossil records.
That is a bit of an exaggeration. Fossils of various groups appear step by step in the Cambrian. You don't get things like trilobites until millions of years into the period, and the complex animals that gradually show up by the Mid-Cambrian are still not really the animals we're familiar with today.

The Cambrian explosion has generated extensive scientific debate. The seemingly rapid appearance of fossils in the “Primordial Strata” was noted as early as the 1840s, and in 1859 Charles Darwin discussed it as one of the main objections that could be made against his theory of evolution by natural selection...
... and now we are plagiarising Wikipedia and/or the BBC. I know Wikipedia is free and all that, but it's still considered polite to at least indicate that these are not your words.

with evolution it needs time as how can you imagine one thing turning into another without it. so this is one period where scientists haven't fully understood or have a proper explanation for. on one hand they say you need time and hence that's why they date things to old ages to slowly evolve into something else then how does this fit in.
The Cambrian explosion lasted tens of millions of years by the most conservative estimates, and there are indications (like my favourite Kimberella) that put its start back tens of millions of years before the Cambrian. There is something unusual about the CE, but it's by no means "miraculously" fast.

so they are coming up with other ways for it to be explained like there was a period of time that has not showed up in the fossil records showing the preceding fossils.
I think one of the best explanations is that most of the earliest steps happened in small soft-bodied animals. Many lines of evidence indicate that animals appeared long before the Cambrian. Even the most conservative DNA-based estimates place the origin of animals way back in Precambrian times. Fossil embryos of multicellular creatures appear ~40 million years before the Cambrian, Kimberella and its associated trace fossils indicate a slug-like animal that crawled around and grazed on microbes, etc.

It's now fairly commonly accepted that oxygen levels before the Cambrian were pretty low in the oceans. That limits how much animals can do and how big they can grow. In today's oxygen-limited environments, there are animals but there are virtually no predators, for example, and "trying not to get eaten" is one of the strongest selective pressures you can imagine to drive evolution.

Put all of that together, and what you get is a long period when most animals were small, wandering around microbial mats eating things that didn't run away or fight back, and under no pressure to come up with things like shells, eyes, burrows or fast swimming that would save them from predators. Also, leaving few fossils.

or by by the theory of punctuated equilibrium which developed in the early 1970s and which views evolution as long intervals of near-stasis "punctuated" by short periods of rapid change.
While Eldredge and Gould did suggest applying PE to the Cambrian, it is primarily a theory about low-level (i.e. species to species) transitions.
 
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Naraoia

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caught me out sounds like the little boy caught with his hand in the cookie jar. no i will argue for evolution as well if im in the mood. as i said before i keep an open mind, most of my statements have been researched and compared and if you look at my posts the actual content i think you can see that this is my reasoning not some parroting of some religious sect.
Then you really should distinguish direct quotes from your own words. Quoting your sources without attributing the quotes (or, in your case, even indicating that they are quotes) is very bad practice. A high school student would get roasted for it. A scientist's or author's reputation could be tarnished for life. Don't do it. It's basically stealing.

anyway im a little confused what if i was i thought this was a christian site. so if they are a creationist isn't that still a version of Christianity.
On this forum, most of the time it is. Creationism isn't exclusive to Christianity, though. (See Adnan Oktar/Harun Yahya for a prominent non-Christian example.)
the saying mining to me means the stuff we do here in australia dig up ore and minerals. i wouldn't even know what they do when they are mining so you will have to explain to me what it means.
Quote mining is taking a quote out of context so it seems to say something that it was never intended to say. For example, you can find a quote in the Bible that's literally "there is no God." Of course, that's not at all what Psalm 14 or Isaiah 45 or any of the other instances where these words occur in the Bible says. So if I said "there is no God! Even the Bible admits that!"... I would definitely be quote mining.

(I didn't come up with this example, but I can't for the life of me recall whose signature I saw it in.)

Split Rock here on this forum has a whole collection of "mined" quotes from famous creationists that make it sound like they fully accept evolution.

if you notice a lot of my comments are questions, wondering, asking. like if someone says something i may say then how come it is like this. hopefully we learn off each other. as i said if you bother to read my comments that everyone has a point of view and each person will see it their way. if you have an open mind and try and look at it fairly and squarely then that's all you can do.
:thumbsup:

in fact i think creationists base their belief on proving the bible and god, creation through science. they need to do this as this is their version of belief. though it is not really belief as faith is the belief of things unseen. i can tell you right now i dont base my faith on that as it will never be satisfyingly proved one way or the by stats, facts or any physical proof. faiths a personal thing you cant make it happen by physical evidence. as Christ said to Thomas when he felt his nail holes, greater is the person who believes without seeing.
Have to say I'm very much a Thomas myself. ^_^

everyone uses someone elses argument that's how we get the info. of course you need to filter it through your own personal point of view but someone elses argument or their words as to what they are saying about the subject is theirs. they are the experts who have made the point you want to refer to. otherwise you would have to be good enough to be the original person who discovered the point in the first place. i think i have written a volume of words and most have been my own with reference to info i have found.
The problem is where you have been quoting things word for word without citing the source. If you use quotation marks and start citing the sources of your quotes, I think no one will have a problem with it. You don't have to add links, it'll be perfectly fine to put, for example, "ICR article called The Scientific Case Against Evolution" as a source. That tells your readers where the quote comes from and allows us to look it up easily.

out of interest what do you believe, i gather its along the lines of evolution but what exactly is your opinion on it. do you take the Darwinian view of a more modern view or a combination of views.
I know you didn't ask me this question, but can I answer?

I don't take a fully "Darwinian" view of evolution, insofar as the Darwinian view says (1) changes from one generation to the next are always small and gradual, and (2) selection is the driving force of evolution.

As to (1), I think it's just silly to exclude the possibility of big changes within one or a few generations - such changes have been seen and documented in the wild and in the lab. For example, a wild variety of shepherd's purse has flowers that look exactly like so-called homeotic mutants produced in the lab; these are major mutations that change one body part into another. (This is how you get four-winged flies and flies with legs for antennae) I don't expect these to be the main source of new forms, but the possibility that they contribute to some evolutionary changes should at least be considered.

Re: (2), selection is only one of the forces that determine where evolution goes. For instance, genetic drift, which is the random cousin of selection, can help duplicated genes survive, add complexity, and may well contribute to the origin of new species. Also, these processes sort variation once it's present in the population. There are also processes that determine the nature of variation. For example, the eyespots of some butterflies can easily evolve different sizes under selection, but they can't seem to change their colour compositions, probably because of the different ways these different properties are determined during wing development.
 
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