Deaconesses

everbecoming2007 · Oct 14, 2013

I have read there are women deacons in the Orthodox Church. Is this considered a sacramental ordination to holy orders in the same way as when a man is ordained a deacon, or is it something else?

Thanks in advance.

gzt · Oct 14, 2013

No, th ere are not. There were historically and some people have considered discussing perhaps bringing them back.

There is some discussion as to whether they were really in holy orders like male deacons or whether it was simply something similar and, eg, their main duties were to assist with female baptisms and such.

buzuxi02 · Oct 14, 2013

Depends what you mean by deaconess. Today its used loosely to define a nun who has a blessing to perhaps enter the altar, not much responsibility attached to it and quite rare.

As GZT mentions the primarily role of a female deacon in the ancient church was to assist in female baptisms. Baptisms were done in the nude and the deaconess would anoint the female candidates, which at the time consisted in anointing must of the body. Also the laws of the Roman empire required segregation between men and women in many aspects. The female deacons would exist the women catechumens out at the appropriate time in the liturgy and would bring communion to women shut ins.

The order slowly died out after the emperor Justinian's reforms

InnerPhyre · Oct 15, 2013

St. Nektarios ordained two deaconesses in the early 1900s. Archbishop Chrysostomos of Athens, of blessed memory also ordained some deaconesses, which according to him were to "wear the diaconal orarion, cense, decorate the holy sanctuary and, when an ordained clergyman was not present, to read the gospel periocopes during the divine services and to bring the presanctified holy gifts to the nuns who were ill." Their ordinations were similar to the ordinations of deacons, except that the deaconess's sitcharion went to the waist instead of the ankles. They wore deacon's cuffs as well, since they were blessed to touch the Holy Eucharist.

ArmyMatt · Oct 15, 2013

no, they are not. I have seen at monasteries some nuns sometimes get the blessing to cense like the deacons.

gzt · Oct 15, 2013

By "cense like the deacons", do you mean with a swinging censer? As a hand censer can be used by anybody, while the swinging censer is for deacons+.

InnerPhyre · Oct 15, 2013

gzt said:
By "cense like the deacons", do you mean with a swinging censer? As a hand censer can be used by anybody, while the swinging censer is for deacons+.

The ones I was referring to were actual deaconesses ordained in the early 20th century, which had the responsibilities I listed above, which included censing in church and reading the gospel when there was no other clergy. If other clergy were present, they would do neither.

ArmyMatt · Oct 15, 2013

gzt said:
By "cense like the deacons", do you mean with a swinging censer? As a hand censer can be used by anybody, while the swinging censer is for deacons+.

no the hand ones, not the swinging ones.

jimkhong · Oct 16, 2013

InnerPhyre said:
The ones I was referring to were actual deaconesses ordained in the early 20th century, which had the responsibilities I listed above, which included censing in church and reading the gospel when there was no other clergy. If other clergy were present, they would do neither.

Just for me to understand this correctly - they had the same roles, responsibilities as male deacons in their church? with Holy Orders?

What happened to the office since? Why no more were ordained?

InnerPhyre · Oct 16, 2013

jimkhong said:
Just for me to understand this correctly - they had the same roles, responsibilities as male deacons in their church? with Holy Orders?

What happened to the office since? Why no more were ordained?

Not exactly. The deacon leads large parts of the Divine Liturgy, which these deaconesses cannot do. They could, however fulfill some of the lesser roles of a deacon, such as censing, reading the Gospel, and bringing Holy Communion to those who were not present at the services.

jimkhong · Oct 16, 2013

InnerPhyre said:
Not exactly. The deacon leads large parts of the Divine Liturgy, which these deaconesses cannot do. They could, however fulfill some of the lesser roles of a deacon, such as censing, reading the Gospel, and bringing Holy Communion to those who were not present at the services.

Thanks. Why has there been no more such ordinations?

ArmyMatt · Oct 16, 2013

jimkhong said:
Thanks. Why has there been no more such ordinations?

I think for one because out of practicality, they generally are not needed. I might be wrong, but one of the primary functions of the deaconess was to aide in the baptism of a woman, and back then they were naked. since we don't have that today (adult baptisms are clothed), the need went out.

at least that is one of the reasons I heard it went away.

buzuxi02 · Oct 16, 2013

jimkhong said:
Thanks. Why has there been no more such ordinations?

There simply is no demand for it. When adult baptism began to dwindle in the empire, nude baptisms of adults were replaced with the candidates wearing a tunic. This also meant that the anointing with chrism was now limited to just the face and hands possibly legs, the role of a deaconess became obselete.The empire also became more coed, thus the role of the deaconess in minister ing to women was no longer required.

Today there is no demand or need for deaconesses. In Greece where these 3-4 deaconesses we're 'ordained' in the past century were basically nuns given a few additional responsibilities.

If there was some growth of the church in places like Saudi Arabia or Iran where laws prohibit interaction between males and females who are non related, then the order of deaconess would be revived.

jimkhong · Oct 16, 2013

buzuxi02 said:
There simply is no demand for it. When adult baptism began to dwindle in the empire, nude baptisms of adults were replaced with the candidates wearing a tunic. This also meant that the anointing with chrism was now limited to just the face and hands possibly legs, the role of a deaconess became obselete.The empire also became more coed, thus the role of the deaconess in minister ing to women was no longer required.

Today there is no demand or need for deaconesses. In Greece where these 3-4 deaconesses we're 'ordained' in the past century were basically nuns given a few additional responsibilities.

If there was some growth of the church in places like Saudi Arabia or Iran where laws prohibit interaction between males and females who are non related, then the order of deaconess would be revived.

Thanks. It is sad to 'have no demand'. Still, to have actually ordained women, even if in a limited role is something we in the Catholic church could learn.

choirfiend · Oct 16, 2013

Its not the same thing as the ordination of male clergy is the general consensus, and since the Catholic Church was part of teh Orthodox Church at the time there were deaconesses, it is in your history as well.

buzuxi02 · Oct 17, 2013

jimkhong said:
Thanks. It is sad to 'have no demand'. Still, to have actually ordained women, even if in a limited role is something we in the Catholic church could learn.

Actually the word may be confusing. These are ordinations to the lower clergy like reader and subdeacon. In the early church the laying on of hands were used for a number of vocations. StilI is.

Deaconesses

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