Who Are the 24 Elders?

I believe from Revelation of John, that these 24 elders became the royal priestly measured inner court after the order of Melchizedek, within the heavenly angelic realm.

These angelic elders were the ones crying under the altar who were given white angelic garments (Revelation 6:10-11), these were redeemed from amongst men, after the lamb who had the book with the seven seals that no man could open, opened the fifth seal of grace in ushering in his eternal millennium heavenly Kingdom that shall never be destroyed as prophesy fulfilled in Daniel 2:44.

Revelation chapter seven describes 12 of the elders as being the heads of every tribe consisting of 12,000 of the children of Israel who were said to be the sealed SERVANTS OF OUR GOD.

Revelation 21:12
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

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And the other 12 elders are the New Covenant redeemed disciples of Christ.

Revelation 21:14
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

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So the 24 elders comprise of 12 resurrected Old Covenant saints when they ascended up on high with Christ as the angelic host (white cloud) after Christ's resurrection when he opened their tombs (Matthew 27:52-53) . The remaining 12 that followed were the New Covenant disciples of Christ.

These 24 made up the elders who are the kings seated in the measured heavenly court with Christ as the King of these kings (King of kings).

The Christ is the temple of the angelic heavenly realm with the 24 judges who sit with him in New Jerusalem that was established after the fifth seal was opened after Christ's resurrection.

Revelation 21:22
And I saw no temple therein:for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

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It was evident from chapter 11 versus below that this event that took place after the fifth seal was opened by Christ, is the sealling of the redeemed who took part in the resurrection of the dead that was initiated by Christ after his resurrection.

Therefore we are clearly shown that there existed side by side two sanctums. The inner measured sanctum being where Christ dwells with the resurrected angelic host and his seated 24 judges who were given kingly priestly crowns after the order of Melchizedek. The outer unmeasured court given to the unbelieving and yet to be redeemed Gentile world at large were assigned to the priesthood of the great commission who would minister as the two symbolic witnesses the gospel of Jesus in their priestly sackcloth from neck down to toe, until the fullness of time towards the end of the great harvest, where they are to be martyred by Satan (beast of the bottomless pitt) when he comes as the incarnated messiah in the second coming doctrine.

Revelation 11:1-3
Chapter 11
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

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I agree with Serpentslayer.

But the 12 Apostles will include Matthias instead of Judas.


Hmmm... (looking around) Where's Paul?

Oh! I know! I know!

1. Timothy
2. Polycarp
3. Saint Valentine
3. Saint Nicholas
4. Saint Augustine
5. Saint Francis of Assisi
6. Thomas Aquinas
7. John Wycliffe
8. John Bunyan
9. John Huss
10. Jacobus Arminius
11. John Wesley
12. Isaac Newton
13. Blaise Pascal
14. William Penn
15. Jonathan Edwards
16. Robert Sheffey - Saint of the Wilderness
17. William Seymour
18. Smith Wigglesworth
19. Billy Sunday
20. Billy Graham
21. RW Schambach
22. Joel Osteen
23. Saint Patrick
24. Zig Ziglar

HisSparkPlug said:

thanks for your thoughts serpantslayer

There are some who think the 24 elders are created beings such as angels or some such thing.. which makes no sense considering these 24 are given white robes (have become righteous) and sit on thrones (have been given authority).

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And they have crowns so that tells me that these elders are overcomers. It is pretty clear that they are saints just like John and the real mystery is why people try so hard to make them something else.

Mazock said:

I agree with Serpentslayer.

But the 12 Apostles will include Matthias instead of Judas.


Hmmm... (looking around) Where's Paul?

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Yes absolutely when they threw lots. The Jewish council the heavenly judges is seated with Christ and how proud does that make us to know we have 24 elder brothers there who can vouch for us when we are tied to this realm fighting against darkness of the mind and heart of many who have been made captive to Satan's deceptions of this age.

The truth is in you for salvation came to the Jews first then to the Gentiles. The Jewish King the King of Judah is already reigning with his 24 judges unbeknown to the Christian world at large.

New Jerusalem New Jerusalem the heavenly city of the saints of God.

heavenlessstar said:

And they have crowns so that tells me that these elders are overcomers. It is pretty clear that they are saints just like John and the real mystery is why people try so hard to make them something else.

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Yes brilliant your are spot on. They are the true Saints and the Holy Priests after the order of Melchizedek.

Noah

Abraham

Isacc

Jacob

Joseph

Moses

Joshua

David

Isaiah

Jeremiah

Ezekial

Daniel

Twelve Apostles including Paul not Judas

Optimax said:

Noah

Abraham

Isacc

Jacob

Joseph

Moses

Joshua

David

Isaiah

Jeremiah

Ezekial

Daniel

Twelve Apostles including Paul not Judas

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Wow interesting I am going to copy this one down and memorise it.

Optimax said:

Noah

Abraham

Isacc

Jacob

Joseph

Moses

Joshua

David

Isaiah

Jeremiah

Ezekial

Daniel

Twelve Apostles including Paul not Judas

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Intereting but we all klnow you really don't know because God does not tell us. You are adding to Gods word unless you have sod BIBLICAL evicence instead of only your opinion.

What about Matthias. He was an apostel before Paul and God personally selected him.

frogman2x said:

Intereting but we all klnow you really don't know because God does not tell us. You are adding to Gods word unless you have sod BIBLICAL evicence instead of only your opinion.

What about Matthias. He was an apostel before Paul and God personally selected him.

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Peter got bored, anxious and looking for something to do instead of wait.

Peter did an OT thing with lots.

Christians are not led by lots but by the Spirit.

Notice the difference in Acts when they are led by the Holy Spirit.

Optimax said:

Peter got bored, anxious and looking for something to do instead of wait.

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You are adding to God'sd word.

Peter did an OT thing with lots.

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But he left the decision up to God to cause the lot to fall in the right pace.

Christians are not led by lots but by the Spirit.

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Are you suggeting that Peter was not a Chrisian?

Notice the difference in Acts when they are led by the Holy Spirit.

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IN selectding Matthais Peter was not led by the HOly Spirit. He left the decision up to God.

kermit

HisSparkPlug said:

Are they people?

Are they created beings?

Who are they?

(Yes I have an opinion but seeking feedback first)

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I believe it is clear that these are humans - and not angels. Some of those reasons have been discussed already. However, I certainly do not believe that this group is a mixture of 12 OT saints and 12 NT saints (or any combination in-between). There is no exegetical reason to assume this. These elders always appear in a unified group, never as two groups of 12.

The number 24 is used in Scripture to speak of completion and representation. There were 24 officers of the sanctuary representing the 24 courses of the Levitical priests (1 Chron. 24:4–5, 7–18), as well as 24 divisions of singers in the temple (1 Chron. 25). Whoever the 24 elders are, then, they likely represent a larger group.

Some believe the elders represent Israel. But while individual Jews have been and will continue to be redeemed throughout history, at the time of this vision the nation as a whole had not yet been redeemed. Their national judgment and salvation (Rom. 11:26) comes during the Tribulation (chaps. 6–19), largely as a result of the evangelistic efforts of the 144,000 (introduced in chap. 7). When the twenty-four elders are first introduced, those events are yet to take place.

Similarly, the elders cannot be Tribulation saints, since they too had not yet been converted. The elders are already in heaven when the Tribulation saints arrive. Revelation 7:11–14 describes the scene:

And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen." Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

The elders are also seen in heaven when other momentous events of the Tribulation take place, such as when the kingdoms of the world become the kingdom of Christ (11:15–18), when the 144,000 gather on Mount Zion (14:1–3), and when God destroys the Babylonian economic and religious system (19:1–4).

Therefore, it doesn't make good sense to assume that this group represents Israel, the Tribulation saints, or a mixture of Israel or the church.

The most plausible answer is that they represent the raptured, glorified, coronated church, which sings the song of redemption.

The reference to the 24 thrones on which the 24 elders sat indicates that they reign with Christ. Nowhere in Scripture do angels sit on thrones, nor are they pictured ruling or reigning. The church, on the other hand, is repeatedly promised a co-regency with Christ (Rev. 2:26–27; 3:21; 5:10; 20:4; Matt. 19:28; Luke 22:30; 1 Cor. 6:2–3; 2 Tim. 2:12).

Jig said:

I believe it is clear that these are humans - and not angels. Some of those reasons have been discussed already. However, I certainly do not believe that this group is a mixture of 12 OT saints and 12 NT saints (or any combination in-between). There is no exegetical reason to assume this. These elders always appear in a unified group, never as two groups of 12.

The number 24 is used in Scripture to speak of completion and representation. There were 24 officers of the sanctuary representing the 24 courses of the Levitical priests (1 Chron. 24:4–5, 7–18), as well as 24 divisions of singers in the temple (1 Chron. 25). Whoever the 24 elders are, then, they likely represent a larger group.

Some believe the elders represent Israel. But while individual Jews have been and will continue to be redeemed throughout history, at the time of this vision the nation as a whole had not yet been redeemed. Their national judgment and salvation (Rom. 11:26) comes during the Tribulation (chaps. 6–19), largely as a result of the evangelistic efforts of the 144,000 (introduced in chap. 7). When the twenty-four elders are first introduced, those events are yet to take place.

Similarly, the elders cannot be Tribulation saints, since they too had not yet been converted. The elders are already in heaven when the Tribulation saints arrive. Revelation 7:11–14 describes the scene:

And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen." Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

The elders are also seen in heaven when other momentous events of the Tribulation take place, such as when the kingdoms of the world become the kingdom of Christ (11:15–18), when the 144,000 gather on Mount Zion (14:1–3), and when God destroys the Babylonian economic and religious system (19:1–4).

Therefore, it doesn't make good sense to assume that this group represents Israel, the Tribulation saints, or a mixture of Israel or the church.

The most plausible answer is that they represent the raptured, glorified, coronated church, which sings the song of redemption.

The reference to the 24 thrones on which the 24 elders sat indicates that they reign with Christ. Nowhere in Scripture do angels sit on thrones, nor are they pictured ruling or reigning. The church, on the other hand, is repeatedly promised a co-regency with Christ (Rev. 2:26–27; 3:21; 5:10; 20:4; Matt. 19:28; Luke 22:30; 1 Cor. 6:2–3; 2 Tim. 2:12).

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Yeah, basically what he said. One has to really reach beyond the clear clues given in the book of Revelation itself to find another explanation for who the elders are.

Rev.4:4, "24 elders" = Personification that signifies God's providential work an d His agents (given into men's hands) pointing to the ministry of the Word. The Word that is committed to the holy ministry as God's own Word rules the whole world and thereby glorifies God, ie, governs in the Church, and judges also those who reject it (Jn.12:48a).

Just ol' old Jack

It is a Jewish wedding and the bridegroom the Christ, has placed in his inner measured heavenly court room when he ascended up on high the 24 kingly judges who are the redeemed of the Jews both Old and New.

Thereby fulfilling his word that salvation came to the Jews first.

That is why Christ is called the King of kings for these kings do not allude to earthly kings within the unmeasured (yet to be redeemed) unbelieving gentile court of the world at large.

The resurrection of the dead and the establishment of the heavenly kingdom that shall never be destroyed is all tied to Christ's ascension when he took with him the many captives after opening their tombs (Matthew 27:52-53).

Ephessians 4:8
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

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To deny the cohesive exegetical solid powerhouse doctrine owing to fulfillment of Christ's Kingdom in heavenly New Jerusalem is to deny the following:

1) Christ's kingdom has not yet been established in Heaven
2) The resurrection of the dead has not yet commenced
3) The heavenly measured court of the 24 kingly judges has not yet been established by Christ
4) Christ's white throne judgement with his seated inner court of 24 judges has not yet commenced in separating the sheep from the TARES in judging all nations.
5) There is no first judgement after death immediately when the earthly body is dissolved.
6) Departed Saints are not reigning with Christ

Yet scripture both Old and New Testament supports that all the above have been fulfilled and established in Christ when he said it is finished.

Daniel 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

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John in the past tense verb says "I SAW" thrones and they sat upon them.

Revelation 20:4-5
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

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This is proof positive that Christ needs not to come back the second time to establish what he has already established and put in place within the first century church.

The only thing that separates the faithful from being in the presence of Christ, who are living in the unmeasured outer court of the gentile world at large is to pass through death onto the first judgement in front of the heavenly inner court of the 24 angelic elders with Christ in the heavenly realm and then onto eternal life through the power of the resurrection.

2 Corinthians 5:6-10
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

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If we carefully study the two groups the Old and the New we see they are given to distinct labels:

New Covenant Saints WITNESS OF JESUS
Old Covenant Saint FOR THE WORD OF GOD

QUOTE]Revelation 20:4-5
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.[/QUOTE]

Also if we refer to Chapters 6 and 7 in Revelation of John we can easily distinction the two groups:

Revelation 7:3-4
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed:and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

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Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

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It is quite easily discernible that after the fifth seal that Christ opened he sealed through the resurrection of the dead both the Old and New Covenant Saint.

144,000 are those who are said to be THE SERVANTS OF OUR GOD
Great multitude from all nations who go through the great tribulation are said to have washed their robes by the blood of the lamb.

The 24 judges are comprised of both 12 Old Testament angelic elders and 12 1st Century disciples who all were sealed though the resurrection of the dead and that is why they wear the white angelic resurrection robes within the measured inner heavenly sanctum.

These same Old Testament Saints were those who were crying under the altar in:

Again these old Covenant Saints who were in Abraham's Bosom would be said to be SLAIN FOR THE WORD OF GOD and as they cried they were raised and given white angelic resurrection robes and told to also be patient for the New Covenant brother and sisters who had not yet born, killed and had part in the resurrection of the dead.

Revelation 6:9-11
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

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