What do we need it to get to? 500,000? A million?
How about having more robust individuals with many less mutations built up and a cleaner genetic makeup than we have today?
We don't need to get to anything since we already have data showing us what happened. The human population is so genetically diverse today that it is physically impossible for it to have gone through two bottlenecks (Adam and Noah) in the past 6,000 years. Simple as that. The genetic diversity that we have today can only be the result of a population size that remained stable in the dozens of thousands to hundreds of thousands for at least half a million years.
That actually goes against your argument. To generate the high genetic diversity that our population has today, you would need individuals with more mutations and a "dirtier" genetic makeup that everybody else alive today. It would help a lot if you read a few paragraphs about genetics before you proposed these "ideas".
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. I mean, I am too of course.
If God created Adam and Eve to populate the Earth from just two people, I am sure they were perfectly able to. Noah was not too far from Adam.
You can't base your whole argument on things we find in genetics today. Or man's inference of that evidence. We've only just starting unlocking DNA, have we not?
God creating Adam and Eve is an assumption. DNA being more similar between people that are closely related and less similar between those that are not is not an assumption, it is an observation. You draw your conclusions based on your assumption (that God created Adam and Eve), I draw mine based on observation. That is the big difference between our arguments.
No, actually, we know a lot. We can debate it when you learn a tad bit more about it.
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. I mean, I am too of course.
If God created Adam and Eve to populate the Earth from just two people, I am sure they were perfectly able to. Noah was not too far from Adam.
You can't base your whole argument on things we find in genetics today. Or man's inference of that evidence. We've only just starting unlocking DNA, have we not?
You can't base your whole argument on things we find in genetics today. Or man's inference of that evidence.
What do we need it to get to? 500,000? A million?
So we all look very similar and there is only one color shade of a white person and one color shade of a black person and so on? Is that what you are saying?
I though humans had a great number of varying characteristics.
None of the things he said were assumptions. Methinks you need to look up that word in the dictionary.You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. I mean, I am too of course.
Ah yes, you cannot explain the facts, so you make stuff up.If God created Adam and Eve to populate the Earth from just two people, I am sure they were perfectly able to. Noah was not too far from Adam.
No, we have not. We know quite a bit about DNA, how it works, and what it can and cannot do. Perhaps you should first study this? You know, before, making up stuff? Why don't you?You can't base your whole argument on things we find in genetics today. Or man's inference of that evidence. We've only just starting unlocking DNA, have we not?
Nope. I am saying that this is what we should look like if the Noah's ark story really happened. The fact that we do not, is something you need to explain if your story is to hold water.
Here are the facts:
Humans have only two alleles for each gene.
For many genes, the human species as a whole has thousands of alleles.
If your story is true, you had at one point a population bottleneck of 8 humans. These 8 humans would have had at max 16 alleles.
Somehow, you have to get from those 16 alleles to the thousands we have now. That is what you have to explain.
I don't understand this post.Here are the facts:
Humans have only two alleles for each gene.
For many genes, the human species as a whole has thousands of alleles.
If your story is true, you had at one point a population bottleneck of 8 humans. These 8 humans would have had at max 16 alleles.
Somehow, you have to get from those 16 alleles to the thousands we have now. That is what you have to explain.
I'm totally lost here.It is even tighter than that as three of those people were offspring of Noah and his wife. So for most genes five of them shared at max the same four alleles.
Cabvet said:God creating Adam and Eve is an assumption. DNA being more similar between people that are closely related and less similar between those that are not is not an assumption, it is an observation. You draw your conclusions based on your assumption (that God created Adam and Eve), I draw mine based on observation. That is the big difference between our arguments.EternalDragon said:If God created Adam and Eve to populate the Earth from just two people, I am sure they were perfectly able to.
Euh, no?I don't understand this post.
Are you saying that we currently only have "thousands" of humans?
Nope, because many humans have the same alleles.If each human has two alleles, and there are 7 billion humans; wouldn't the 'human species as a whole' have 14 billion alleles; not 'thousands of alleles' as you said?
Without evolution, 16.If 'these 8 humans' have a maximum of 16 alleles, then how many maximum alleles would 7 billion humans have?
Euh, no?
Nope, because many humans have the same alleles.
Let's make up a simple example for a moment, and pretend that eye-color is depended on one gene (in reality it is not, but this is for illustration purposes). So you have one gene for eye-color. For that gene, you have two varieties (or alleles). Each variety codes for "blue", "black", "brown" or "grey" eyes (again, this is too simple, but for illustration purposes). So you might have one allele coding for blue eyes, and another coding for black eyes. Eey might have two alleles coding for blue eyes. With me so far?
Now, each allele of a gene is situated on a chromosome. You have two sets of chromosomes, one from your mother, one from your father. So far you to have a "blue" allele and a "black" allele, you needed to get one of these from your mother, and one from your father. So either your mother had one or two "blue" alleles, and your father had one or two "black" alleles, or vice versa. In my case, both my mother and father had to have at least one "blue allele". With me so far.
So, more than one person can have a version of the same allele. Suppose my mother and father both had one "blue allele", but my mother also had a "brown" allele and my father a "gray" allele. All possible combinations from my mother and father are: "blue - blue", "blue - gray", "blue - brown" and "gray brown". But it might happen by chance, that both all my sisters and brothers got the "blue-blue" set. But suppose I had 10 brothers and sisters, at maximum we could have 4 different sets of alleles between us.
Which leads to the answer of your question below:
Without evolution, 16.
Yup, two per person.Again, excuse my ignorance, but for the record, I still don't understand.
(And I'm not playing games, either. I truly don't understand.)
You said a minute ago that Noah and his family -- 8 people -- had a maximum of 16 alleles.
Each gene codes for different things. You have different genes for hair color, eye color, etc... Of each gene, you have two alleles.But now it looks like you're saying that alleles code for eye color and, by extension, hair color, skin color and whatever else.
So a lot of genes in your body, coding for trait that your body has. Of each gene, you have two alleles.That's more than 2 alleles per person, isn't it?
No, because you have a different gene that codes for eyes and one that codes for hair.A person who has green eyes has 2 alleles, now they have green eyes and brown hair, shouldn't that be 4 alleles now?
Each gene codes for different things.
Now wer're talking genes?
Which is it? genes or alleles?
Or are these two alleles responsible for manipulating all the genes?
You have two variants of each gene. Each variant is called an allele.