Merry Christmas Bill

Merope · May 23, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
Nobody is taking away your right to not believe.

Don't let the door(or non existent door for you) hit you on the way.

I think pie might be a little too strong for you... I would cut back.

Redac · May 23, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
Political Correctness has no place in a civil society... We can't even say ghetto anymore.

Ghetto.

We have to say "working class neighborhood". People don't really work there. Hence the word ghetto -.-.

That is both factually incorrect and a load of biased bull-crap.

Besides, the actual meaning of ghetto is a place where minorities live. I don't see what's so bad about using the word.

The implication being, of course, that those minorities don't work.

The problem is that a ghetto originally described a portion of Renaissance Venice where Jews were forcibly moved and segregated from the rest of the city. In most of the past a ghetto was somewhere a particular group (usually Jews) would be moved to forcibly to keep them from "corrupting" the good Christian folk.

In America you see a lot of these black ghettos because societal racism (and often legal discrimination) essentially forced black families into the poorer parts of the city; it was the only place where someone would give them a mortgage or sell them a home. It has pretty negative historical connotations.

Of course now ghetto is often used to refer to things that are cheap or otherwise associated with poverty, and its connotations link it to inner-city black communities, and even blacks in general. Calling something "ghetto" is not generally a compliment.

It's something like calling a mixed-race person a mulatto. Yes, it means a mixed-race person, but don't get all indignant about it when that person gets angry at that usage.

I Eat Pie said:
Nobody is taking away your right to not believe.

Don't let the door(or non existent door for you) hit you on the way.

Having a state-run entity actively celebrate one particular religion's winter holiday to the exclusion of all else is acceptable to you? Or just when it's your religion's holiday?

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

I think I just get overexcited sometimes. I know I shouldn't have said that.

It's actually a nice treat really.

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

Really? A teacher saying "See you guys after Christmas vacation" is suddenly a state-run entity?

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

And woah there. Black people were forced into ghettos? Right... Let's look at all the black people not living there. My point is a ghetto is a place where minorities are, and yes, a lot of these places are poor, with people on government assistance, so why do we have to call it a working class neighborhood? It makes no sense.

Redac · May 23, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
Really? A teacher saying "See you guys after Christmas vacation" is suddenly a state-run entity?

I don't really care if a teacher says that, personally. But the teacher is an employee of the school, and a public school is a state-run entity.

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

Well see that's what I'm saying. They can get fired for saying that.

If you were about to get out of class for winter vacation and a teacher said "Bye kids. See you after Christmas vacation", would you really be offended? I mean they're kids and teens. I doubt they care either way.

Redac · May 23, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
And woah there. Black people were forced into ghettos? Right...

They weren't forcibly rounded up and put there, but they were often legally prevented from moving anywhere else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto#African_American_ghettos

Wikipedia said:
The "Racial" Provisions of FHA Underwriting Manual of 1936, included the following guidelines which exacerbated the segregation issue:
Recommended restrictions should include provision for: prohibition of the occupancy of properties except by the race for which they are intended ... Schools should be appropriate to the needs of the new community and they should not be attended in large numbers by inharmonious racial groups.[14][26]
This meant that ethnic minorities could secure mortgage loans only in certain areas, and it resulted in a large increase in the residential racial segregation and urban decay in the United States.[27] The creation of new highways in some cases divided and isolated black neighborhoods from goods and services, many times within industrial corridors. For example, Birmingham, Alabama's interstate highway system attempted to maintain the racial boundaries that had been established by the city's 1926 racial zoning law. The construction of interstate highways through black neighborhoods in the city led to significant population loss in those neighborhoods and is associated with an increase in neighborhood racial segregation.[28] By 1990, the legal barriers enforcing segregation had been replaced by decentralized racism, where whites pay more than blacks to live in predominantly white areas.[7] Some social scientists suggest that the historical processes of suburbanization and decentralization are instances of white privilege that have contributed to contemporary patterns of environmental racism.[29]

Let's look at all the black people not living there.

Much of that is thanks to the removal of legal barriers that prevented blacks who had the financial means to move out of the ghettos from doing so.

My point is a ghetto is a place where minorities are,

A mulatto is a mixed-race person. That doesn't mean it's kosher to go around calling people that, though.

and yes, a lot of these places are poor, with people on government assistance, so why do we have to call it a working class neighborhood? It makes no sense.

Well, ignoring that "working class" just refers to the lower end of the class system, most people on government assistance are not, in fact, unemployed.

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

Well then why not call middle class neighborhoods working class neighborhood too? are they not working? Same with rich neighborhoods. We're not sitting in a plantation you know.

Besides, we live in the 21st century. people could get out of those places if they wanted to.

Redac · May 23, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
Well see that's what I'm saying. They can get fired for saying that.

If you were about to get out of class for winter vacation and a teacher said "Bye kids. See you after Christmas vacation", would you really be offended? I mean they're kids and teens. I doubt they care either way.

I had a JROTC instructor once tell the class rather emphatically the certainty of God's existence and something to the effect of how we should be thankful (implication: to God) for what we have. I also had a history teacher (also in high school) make a remark once about how complex the human eye was, and how he couldn't see how such a thing could come about through evolution (obvious implication: God did it). That no one took offense to either of those things doesn't mean it was really an acceptable thing to bring up.

Like I said, I don't care if teachers say "Christmas" or whatever, but it becomes a problem when the school actively promotes the celebration of Christmas over anything else.

Most of us just said "winter break" anyway (teachers included). Rolls off the tongue easier.

Redac · May 23, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
Well then why not call middle class neighborhoods working class neighborhood too? are they not working?

Because "working class" most generally is used to refer to lower-income workers in unskilled or otherwise lower-skilled, blue-collar jobs who generally work for hourly wages instead of, say, a salary.

I generally refer to middle class people as "working class" as well, but it has a whole 'nother meaning when I say it.

Same with rich neighborhoods. We're not sitting in a plantation you know.

The way many rich people come upon their money, they may as well be.

Besides, we live in the 21st century. people could get out of those places if they wanted to.

That legal barriers preventing people from moving have been removed does not mean they are capable of moving just because they "want to".

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

Ok, if a teacher is trying to promote a religion to the class, then I agree with you there.

But all I'm saying is, there's nothing wrong with a teacher saying have a good Christmas vacation. The kids always run out the door as the bell rings anyways, so I doubt it makes a difference anyways. It's just one little line. Besides, it makes some kids happy. It made me happy. And I never grew up religious.

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

Redac said:
Because "working class" most generally is used to refer to lower-income workers in unskilled or otherwise lower-skilled, blue-collar jobs who generally work for hourly wages instead of, say, a salary.

I generally refer to middle class people as "working class" as well, but it has a whole 'nother meaning when I say it.

The way many rich people come upon their money, they may as well be.

That legal barriers preventing people from moving have been removed does not mean they are capable of moving just because they "want to".

Maybe not now because of the bad economy, but even middle class people are struggling now. One of my friends in middle school was black, and he was middle class, but when his mom lost her job in 07, they had to move to the south. Bad things happen in life.

morningstar2651 · May 23, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
Really? A teacher saying "See you guys after Christmas vacation" is suddenly a state-run entity?

Public schools are run by the state.

Redac · May 23, 2013

I Eat Pie said:
Maybe not now because of the bad economy, but even middle class people are struggling now. One of my friends in middle school was black, and he was middle class, but when his mom lost her job in 07, they had to move to the south. Bad things happen in life.

Indeed, but I'd be willing to bet many of those struggling in the middle class are doing somewhat better than a lot of people toward the bottom of the economic ladder. Still, it's tough.

I also feel sorry your friend had to move to the South. That's rough.

morningstar2651 · May 23, 2013

Bubbahotep said:
Well, I'm glad we've solved every other problem so that this was the most pressing issue for us.

This. Glad to see time well spent on the pressing issues.

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

Redac said:
Indeed, but I'd be willing to bet many of those struggling in the middle class are doing somewhat better than a lot of people toward the bottom of the economic ladder. Still, it's tough.

I also feel sorry your friend had to move to the South. That's rough.

It's fine. He's actually pretty happy there lol.

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

morningstar2651 said:
Public schools are run by the state.

Ya but they're not forcing religion down our throats with that small line.

I Eat Pie · May 23, 2013

I'd actually be ok with "Happy Holidays" too.

But winter break sounds like it's not a vacation. When someone says break, it reminds us that we have to get back to work.

TheOtherHockeyMom · May 23, 2013

Have there been any actual cases of teachers being fired for simply wishing a student has a nice Christmas vacation?

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