Arguments for and against the use of medicine

lnname said:

Key arguments for:

1) Medicine heals the sick, Jesus thought that healing the sick was a good thing and also did it.

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That is a big jump IMO. Yes Jesus healed, but not with drugs. Believing Jesus healed, and that He thought healing was a good thing, has nothing to do with supporting the use of drugs IMO.

2) There are well documented cases of prayer having a positive net effect on patient outcomes, suggesting that God doesn't mind you seeing a doctor.

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Again, this proves that healing and prayer have a connection, which is good I think, but jumping from that to saying we should go to doctors is a leap the premise simply doesn't support IMO.

Key arguments against:

1) Mark 15:18 suggests christians will have an immunity to snake venom, maybe if you are a good enough christian you will be immune to all diseases.

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That's what the radical Christian snake handlers believe...and then some of them die when they get bit.

2) You can be cured by God, he would never use medicine to cure you, but instead do it miraculously.

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I tend to agree with this statement. If God was healing you what need is there for drugs? But I would not go so far as to say that God will not keep you from exercising 'whatever level of faith you have' in a drug, instead of God. But if your faith is in the drug then I think it is a religious platitude to give glory to God...because the heathen, that's getting healed 'by the same drug' certainly isn't.

3) It makes your life harder to not use medicine, God wants your life to be as hard as possible to glorify him as much as possible.

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If you mean, it's a lot harder to spend the required time seeking God 'to attain the faith' necessary for a supernatural healing...I'd have to agree. I have gone to 'the dentist and M.D.' first, several times, simply because I knew I didn't have the faith to believe for divine or supernatural healing.

lnname said:

There is no evidence that God does not use medicine to cure you

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Yes there is, if we're talking of chemical reactions - it's already built-in to your body.

It is a fact that the more often you take meds, the weaker the immune system becomes. It becomes atrophied in a sense for lack of use because you let the meds do the work....

The problem is when new diseases come out like in outbreaks. It takes months at best to formulate a cure. If you have a habit on taking meds for just about every ailment, you'll likely succumb to new diseases due to your weakened immune system and while waiting for the cure to be made.

3) It makes your life harder to not use medicine, God wants your life to be as hard as possible to glorify him as much as possible

There is no scriptural evidence that God wants you to have as hard life as possible

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There is indeed no scriptural evidence for that but a true Christian life is very difficult in exceedingly most cases but a few.

Probably the easiest situation possible for a true disciple is to be trapped in an isolated island by him/herself, surviving on wits and I mean this literally! The 'world' in the context of the existing power/order/system is the greatest enemy of true Christians. Of course that system does not exist in isolated places to torment Christians.

And as I've said previously, abstaining from meds may not actually make your life more difficult. If you never took meds your whole life, you'll probably the only man or woman standing if new diseases break out!

It will be good for you in the long run!

lnname said:

In another thread it was pointed out that medicine was not something Christians should use. This scared me so I thought I would start a new thread where we can make sense of the issue


What are the arguments for and against medicine? Why do you choose to use it or choose not to?

Key arguments for:

1) Medicine heals the sick, Jesus thought that healing the sick was a good thing and also did it.

2) There are well documented cases of prayer having a positive net effect on patient outcomes, suggesting that God doesn't mind you seeing a doctor.

Key arguments against:

1) Mark 15:18 suggests christians will have an immunity to snake venom, maybe if you are a good enough christian you will be immune to all diseases.

The cannonicity of this scripture is debated as many reliable codecies omit it.As well as the premise of this argument being flawed, the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise
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2) You can be cured by God, he would never use medicine to cure you, but instead do it miraculously.

There is no evidence that God does not use medicine to cure you
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3) It makes your life harder to not use medicine, God wants your life to be as hard as possible to glorify him as much as possible

There is no scriptural evidence that God wants you to have as hard life as possible
​

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Jesus healed not only diseases but deformities from birth. He did this to show the power the spirit has over the physical. Since God created all things, he has power over all things. If we had the faith (as Paul eluded to) we could make changes on a molecular (physical) level (move mountains from one place to another, reconstruct bones, eradicate disease and rebuild tissue like leprosy destroys, etc.). We have that ability built in to us through our own spirit. But our faith needs to be strong enough to make it happen. The very word "faith healing" says it all. When the lady touched Jesus robe and was healed Jesus said that it was her "faith" that healed her. If we have enough faith, we could heal without medicine. Ourselves and others. Our lack of it shows how much we need to learn.

Medicine is okay, because it does good:

A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.
Proverbs 17:22

I read a pretty interesting essay a couple weeks ago about how refusing to take your kids to the doctor is the modern equivalent of human sacrifice.

I really can't say that I disagree.

Phoebe Ann said:

Medicine is okay, because it does good:

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Only until a new disease comes out.

By then, your left to the mercy of your own immune system until new medication is discovered months later...

If you've been taking meds to cure just about any ailments, you'd likely succumb to the new disease due to a weakened immune system. You'll also be less likely tolerant to the symptoms of a full-blown un-medicated disease, adding much stress to an already stressful situation...

Dependence on medicines is only good if:

1. Your place never runs out of medicines, never experiences disasters, calamities and
2. New strain of deadly virus or bacteria is never unleashed and
3. It's free!

Unfortunately, that is a hardly a realistic scenario.

3) most medicines, will not harm your immune system, or give you nasty sides. Most medicines work alongside your bodies natural defenses, and work by enhancing them where they need it.

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Not in my experience.

When I stopped taking medicines(to cure any disease), vitamins, food supplements, etc and switched to lean diet, my immune system was improved dramatically!

I've skipped the last several colds and flu season but the last one... The last colds and flu season, I was only sick for one day with colds and flu but completely healed the other day without doing any remedies!

My co-workers were actually amazed at how I seemed to dodge every outbreak in the office!

Before the transition when I took medicines for curing ailments, food supplements, etc, I got sick just as easy as most people! I'm just as normal as any of you!

So I'm not speaking as a matter of opinion but based on personal experiences.

And in my experience, I'm way better off, disease-free, and healthier by NOT taking artificial chemicals into my body

And I believe, it also helps immensely to be freed by the Gospel!

lnname said:

I feel like I should clear some things up
2) some medicines have harmful side effects, e.g.antibiotics will kill the freindly bacteria that live inside you to, potentially weekending you.

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There is no "potentially weakening" about it. 60% of the immune system is in the gut. 'Anti''biotic' means 'anti' 'life'. How much good bacteria life they kill...weakens you...period. How weak you were prior to taking them determines how bad it affects you. Ely Lilly, president of the Lilly drug manufacturing company once said; "If it doesn't have an ADVERSE side effect, it isn't a PRESCRIPTION drug!" I agree with him, ALL RX medicines have harmful side effects, just read the labels. But I know we're not just talking about prescription medicines here. The decision simply has to be made; are the side effects worth the potential benefits.

3) most medicines, will not harm your immune system, or give you nasty sides. Most medicines work alongside your bodies natural defenses, and work by enhancing them where they need it.

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I should also mention that I am a little biased in this discussion, but so far have been impressed by peoples critiques of my opening statement

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I must admit I too am biased. Neither of my two kids were vaccinated and none of my 5 grand kids are either. My daughter just called last week to say my grandson is home sick from school for the first time in 2 1/2 years. Then my daughter in law (who is a school nurse) called and said there is a whooping cough going around. And if the 'powers that be' declare it to be an 'epidemic', our grand daughter either has to get her first shot ever, or stay out of school for 21 days. Baloney, if those shots work then what are they worried about her for?

I take medicine and I hardly ever get sick. I like to wash my hands, put my food in the fridge before it grows bacteria, and stay away from sick people.

Matthew 15:17-20
Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to (take medicine) ...defileth not a man.

Food is like medicine. It gets put into the body.

I used to really believe medicine is a form of witchcraft.

People do idolize substances and I see that as problematic...
How much alcohol did Jesus drink? The Jews called him a drunk and a glutton.

I didn't take medicine for a long time because I felt that medicine was evil. It got to a point that if I didn't take medicine, I felt like I was committing suicide.

Medicine is neither good nor evil.
Good and evil comes from out of the heart.

Peace be with the Church.

Phoebe Ann said:

I take medicine and I hardly ever get sick. I like to wash my hands, put my food in the fridge before it grows bacteria, and stay away from sick people.

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It's somewhat ironic I am exactly the opposite of you and yet I hardly ever get sick too!:

- I don't take medicines, even when I'm sick(which was a very long time ago)

- I don't wash my hands unless I handled something nasty like engine oil, grease, and garbage, etc.

- Once I ate a cheeseburger that was stuck in my bag for one week and did not get sick!

- I don't avoid sick people, nor scorn filthy places. If I avoided sick people, filthy and desperate places, how can I be a follower of Jesus? How can I love the least of our brethren as Jesus commanded?

I even ate with a sick person once using the same spoon and eating the same food and did not get sick!

How can you explain that? All I'm saying is that God already gave us a body designed to repel diseases even if you never take medicines (saving you money too!)

I was far sicklier when I was taking taking medicines, vitamins, and food supplements!

eachallberg said:

I used to really believe medicine is a form of witchcraft.

People do idolize substances and I see that as problematic...
How much alcohol did Jesus drink? The Jews called him a drunk and a glutton.

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I had similar thoughts but more like conspiracy so don't dismiss your ideas yet...

And I was able to put theory to test and proved the body's natural defenses combined with the correct understanding of the Gospel works better than any artificial cure!

Idolatry comes if you value anything above God. What's the first thing you do if you got a headache? Where you get additional strength to get you through a busy day? The answer will only be one, not two!

Peace to you all

I am not against medicine,it was and is used by OT people, but I am in love with NT Jesus way because he showed the power of Holy Spirit of God, I soo want to live eat breath that. One reason why I have my doubts on medicine is. My oldest son was very sick not long ago. And that scared me all I did was pray cry and just worrie. He had asthma that literally on cough would make him stop breathing, he would look at me with his eyes so scared, but he prayed all the time in his head. Cause he could not even talk, I took him several times to the hospital and my husband as well, and when we got there they just said his fine now, nothing wrong with him. I was like he cannot breath at all. Venotolin opens his lungs but it closes over one cough.. I just want to trust my god. I had myself personally very bad experience..and I nearly died cause of they did not believe me, I tell you I have never in my life felt so much pain oh my, I have had 5 children, but this pain , wow. but I just prayed prayed and trusted god anyway, and I got chance to pray for people that were sick in hospital with me. But I believe god is personally showing me that I should only trust in him, I don't say medicine is bad, but world needs it, christians, all people in fact need and could have Jesus Christ. We must grow in faith, even be very easy to believe what Jesus says, not too be argumentative but believe in freedom and healing. I truly believe god will heal my son so he can and will whole heatedly follow and serve and testify of the great thing God done for him, when? On Gods time. For now I pray for him and he does take medicine and I also teach him about god and the things he did for me. I was wondering why god does not heal my son, and my answer is when he needs he will glorify his name through my son when it is his time not my time, my time would be now, but God wants true connection with him, and it will happen, like it happened with me. So more prayers and fire of Holy Spirit.

I remember When I woke up from my surgery my son 5 at time came and said to me God is the boss not you, you cannot do anything with out him, That made me think.
Our faith must grow, must, in the power of God not by knowledge, Otherwise we die, and start believing the world medicine more than what Jesus and NT shows us and teaches us. By belief. Hospital are hospitals they try provide help some better than others, but I want to trust in God in small needs as well as they huge life and death ones. I don't want to be scared to trust God. He helped me when people could not in another thing, how on earth would I not trust him with everything else Is this not what bible teaches? We must be light. I believe also in sickness that God allows on us, but that is different, to depressive hateful sickness that you get out of sin...and Jesus did heal and free people that was caused by sin. We all have our reasons why we are sick. I sure wanted to be free, I just could not go on otherwise, and God was truly amazing to me . I cannot even believe sometime why did he help me. But I am amazed, so what I say is there are people that give up on everything and scream to god, because I just cannot go on. And I left my life in his hands. And he heard me. And I will never say anything else but God truly heals and hears. But people doubt and want proof. I feel very sad and sorry for sick and hurt people, some have great pains that I also tasted for couple of days but nothing what some people have to live in, lots of pain for years, that breaks my heart. I feel sad for the, and ask God to help and bless them, one thing I learned from my pain is not to undermined other peoples pains, but bless, cry with them and pray with them.
Sorry long post. Ask to be anointed with the power of god and victory is yours. God is Good.

Peace

lnname said:

I don't mean to diminish your experience but a dietary change explains all those effects. Unless you were taking some pretty unusual drugs (like immunosuppressants)

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No drugs for me!

But the dietary change is not that very dramatic. Only put more veggies, less meat (fish and chicken only, no red meat if possible), reduced sugar, and a lot less in weight! From 500 to 600 grams of food per day to between 300 to 400 grams of food + two glasses of milk per day.

It's a lean diet I formulated to save money when I lost some hours in my job.

I was partly influenced by scientific research that less food equates to longer(reduced aging) and healthier life and that excess food makes your whole body work harder through digestion and accelerating cell renewal(and hence aging too).

If your theory is true, it only proves that God is great always! Perhaps, the setbacks were meant to educate me to discover natural and better means to keep healthy and save money altogether!

eachallberg said:

Matthew 15:17-20
Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to (take medicine) ...defileth not a man.

Food is like medicine. It gets put into the body.

I used to really believe medicine is a form of witchcraft.

People do idolize substances and I see that as problematic...
How much alcohol did Jesus drink? The Jews called him a drunk and a glutton.

I didn't take medicine for a long time because I felt that medicine was evil. It got to a point that if I didn't take medicine, I felt like I was committing suicide.

Medicine is neither good nor evil.
Good and evil comes from out of the heart.

Peace be with the Church.

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Peace
Who called Jesus and drunk and glutton? The liars that Jesus said your father is devil himself, they lied about lots of things, and just for the fact that Jesus says that about them. I do not believe Jesus was an alcoholic or a wine drinker, but grape juice drinker. he broke so many traditions of the Jews. but alcohol he did not drink, my hard belief, and a glutton he surly was not, you believe what Pharisees say? Believe what they say about scriptures, thats what Jesus taught about them.
He never drank alcohol.


Peace

I think medicine is a good thing. If you don't take medicine for an ailment, you're putting God to the test. He never promised to cure everyone of everything (otherwise, there'd be no death). If you don't have your children take medicine you're probably guilty of child endangerment.

If you get sick, it's because your body isn't working as it's supposed to. This is a result of the curse. The skilled scientists, doctors, nurses, etc., can create and administer medicines to minimize the effects of the curse. If you have diabetes and don't take insulin (assuming the diabetes is bad), then you'll die. If you have high blood pressure and don't take medicine to counteract it, you will likely have a stroke. If you step on a rusty nail and don't get a shot, you'll likely get tetanus. Etc.

"Take a little wine for your stomach's sake". And take other medicinal marvels for other ailments.