were in daniel ch 9 does it talk about the anti christ???

I can think of the 70 ad destruction of the temple as a flood, even though it was a fire, by way of:
The melting gold being a flood which seeped into the ground(cracks in street) as a flood would.
The text seems to me to indicate the people of the prince who destroyed the temple with a flood did this. The Jews Did not destroy their own temple, the romans did.
With that in mind, Rev. 12 appears to have already been fullfilled by the dragon flooding Israel, & the earth swallowing up the flood.(12:16).

Hello celtic,
I guess no one was going to answer your question. The Anti-christ is mentioned in Chapter 9. I will quote (STARTING IN THE MIDDLE OF VERSE 26). The first part of the verse happened in AD 70.

Dan. 9:26&27 - "The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. (27) He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing (of the temple) he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

The abomination that causes desolation happened once before, but it will happen again. The temple will be re-built, and this time it will be in the 7 year tribulation, after 3 1/2 years. There was no seven year agreement the first time.

Originally posted by jbenjesus
Sorry rollinThunder,

No antichrist in those verses. You'll have to look elsewhere for him. Daniel 9 is all about Messiah, not antichrist. The word "antichrist" is not even used in the Old Covenant. Only 4 places in the New Covenant at the end.

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Hello jbenjesus,
Do you actually believe that Jesus would be the one to set up the abomination that causes desolation?? Jesus will be the one who breaks the 7 year peace agreement?? Do you believe that Jesus will be the guilty party that defiles His Fathers temple?? You can't be serious, are you?? You must be joking, right?? If you are serious, I don't think you will have very many people that agree with you.

Originally posted by celtic_crusader
Why does everyone believe that denial was talking about the antichrist in Daniel 9???


I can’t see it at all???

I only see a prophesy about the coming of the messiah and that desolations are determined for Israel as a result of roman attack in 70 AD.

Let me go through this and I would apreasiante any one that is willing to show me were the anti Christ is in this scripture???

Daniel 9
22
And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23
At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to show thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
celtic.

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Hello celtic,
It's me again, the pain in your side,LOL. It would now appear that you are asking a trick question. I answered your question. And now that I have, you are changing it on me. This prophecy is about the 70 weeks of sevens. NOW - in Daniel 9, you see Messiah cut off, after only 69 weeks of sevens. Where is the 70 th week?? - - - You should remember that this is a mystery. You now say that because the bible doesn't talk about this all over the place, then it must be false. If that is correct, then Daniel must be a false prophet. But that is not correct. That would be the same as asking - Where is the name of Jesus in the entire Old Testament? There will be a 70th week - or Tribulation - or Jacobs Trouble, but it is a mystery. This is not all about AD 70.
If Daniel was a false prophet, then why would he be quoted by Jesus in Mathew, Mark and Luke?? Lets take a look. And you tell me if this is still about AD 70.

Matt. 24:15-22 - "So when you see standind in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of through the PROPHET DANIEL -- let the reader understand --- then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back and get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--- and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect - those days will be shortened."

If you want more : Mark 13: 14-20 and Luke 21 : 20-22. And yes, you could still make the claim that Mathew, Mark, and Luke were false teachers, but if you believe that, you might as well throw your bible in the trash.

So, the 70th week will come, and it will come like a thief in the night, so be ready. I should say the rapture will come like a thief, but that would bring more arguing. Just let me say, that no one will know the day or hour of the rapture, but they will know when the 70th week begins, and you could also calculate when the second coming would be after you were able to see what day the tribulation (70th week) began. So long friends.

Also celtic,
The destruction of the temple in AD 70 came after the crusifiction of Jesus. And now, since I have answered your question, here is one for you. When Jesus was cut off, what seven year (or 70th week) covenant were the Jews under?? Good luck

Hi.

Jesus Christ Fulfilled the 70 weeks of Daniel. The 70 weeks run consecutive. Just like EVERY OTHER prophetic time span in scripture.

The 70th week began the moment the 69th week ended.
Exactly as the 70th year of Babylonian captivity began the moment the 69th ended.

Exactly as the 40th Day & Night of Rain began the moment the 39th ended.

Exactly as the "3rd Day" that Jesus rose on began the moment the 2nd day ended.

There in no Gap between the 69th and 70th week., which is 100% consistant with ALL prophetic time periods

Before we can determine when the 70 weeks ended, we first must assertain when they began:

Daniel prophesied in verse 25 that from the commandment to restore and rebuild Israel to the coming of the Messiah is 483 years. The question comes to "which decree is it?"

Here are the decrees:

The Decree of Cyrus - about 536 BC
* Ezra 1:2-4 Cyrus sends folks out to build the temple.
* The math: 536 - 483 = 53 BC.
* Guess what? No Messiah in 53BC.

The Decree of Artaxerxes - about 534 BC
* Ezra 4:17-22 Artaxerxes' decree here is actually to stop building and wait, not to start.
* Scratch that one.

Haggai and Zechariah Prophesy
* Ezra 5:1-3 Here Zerubbabel and Jeshua build, but no decree is mentioned.
* Scratch that.

Darius quotes Cyrus - about 520 BC
* Ezra 6:1-5 Darius simply quotes Cyrus, but in vv. 6-12, Darius sends out a decree.
* The math: 520 - 483 = 37 BC (some say 33BC...it's close enough I reckon).
* Maybe this was when Theudas popped up?
* Scratch this one, no Messiah.

Ezra 6:14
* "According to the commandment of God, of Cyrus, of Darius, and of Artaxerxes they builded and finished it."
* But look carefully at the decree above of Artaxerxes. His decree was to stop building and wait.
* So they couldn't have been talking about his decree.

Decree of Artaxerxes - 458 BC
* Ezra 7:12 - 26 Artaxerxes makes the decree.
* The math: 483-458 = 25, but there was no 0 AD nor 0 BC, so that makes 26 AD.
* What happened in 26 AD?

Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Messiah the Prince came and the Spirit, like a dove, descended upon Him. So began the ministry of Jesus Christ.
What is 483 + 7? 490 years. Simple.

Jesus' first coming and ministry on this earth, through to His death, burial and resurrection and subsequent 3.5 year Gospel message by the disciples to Jews alone fulfilled the 70th week of Daniel.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Who is The Prince?
A big argument is over who this prince is. In the 1769 KJV, the first prince is capitalized - Prince and the second is not. Unfortunately, not knowing the Hebrew, folks err and make a doctrine based on the translators' take. What they may not know is that the 1611 KJV had both of them as "Prince." It was changed later. The YLT (a really good word-for-word translation of the Textus Receptus/Masoretic) has this:

Daniel 9:25-26
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

Daniel 9:25 And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader is seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.

Daniel 9:26 And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations.

Clearly, in the word for word, he equates Messiah the Prince with the Prince that shall come.

In the KJV, we find that "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city." Does the prince destroy the city? No, the people of the prince. In 70 AD, the people of the prince rebelled and went against the Romans. What happened? The city was destroyed. Did they do it directly? Well, no one knows exactly who torched the temple. But, either way, the actions of the Jewish people in Jerusalem brought down the fury of the Roman armies. Whether the Jews burned it or the Romans did is rather a moot point.

Daniel 9:26 - Another Look
"...and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Desolations are determined to the end of the war. At the end, when Jerusalem was destroyed is when the desolation ended.

From the YLT....

Daniel 9:27 And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'

From the KJV...

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.
Jesus' and His apostles ministry to the Jews alone (most agree with this) was seven years...one week. "Confirm" as shown by the YLT, means "strengthen." This says "Covenant." Not treaty. Covenant. What covenant?

Look at Daniel 9 again...

Daniel 9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Note that Daniel does not say to all Israel. He says to them that love him and that keep his commandments. So again, what covenant? It's a covenant that Jesus merely strengthened. It is the covenant that He gave to Abraham.

Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

How would all nations be blessed through Abraham's seed? Through Jesus the Christ. Jesus Strengthened the Covenant.

Jesus strengthened the covenant that God had already made. Those believers in the Old Testament believed that God would do as He promised and provide His salvation, though they knew not the name of Jesus. Those who have believed since Jesus came, believed that Jesus' death, burial and resurrection paid the price for their (our) sins. It has always been the same. God has not changed. His mercy and grace has been extended in the same way, most folks, however, saw the physical or fleshly side and not the spiritual side and I must admit that I find it difficult somedays to see the spiritual too. I know we all do. The flesh wars against the Spirit all the time. Jesus confirmed the covenant that God had made with Abraham. In thee shall all nations be blessed. See also Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, and Luke 22:20.

He shall cause the sacrifice to cease...
In Daniel 9, we find that "he shall cause the sacrifice to cease." If this were the antichrist, as is taught by dispensationalists, then he has already been here because there has been no sacrifice in the temple for a long time. Not since 70 AD. Instead look at what Jesus' death meant. It meant that the covering of sins that the sacrifices did was no longer needed. He took all our sins upon Himself and once we accept that free gift, then ours sins are removed as far as east is from west.

The sacrifice ceased literally in 70 AD, but the need ended at Calvary.

"And for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Poured upon the DESOLATE, not upon the "Desolator".

Indeed, Jerusalem was made desolate. The Romans overran the city, destroying all that was in their wake. This has been done. History proves it.

ALL 70 weeks are behind us. There is no Gap

Peace in the reigning Lord,

P70

Perhaps I can Illustrate how absurd the "gap" theory is:

Lets say I lived in Seattle, you came to visit me from Japan, having never been to USA before and knowing nothing about our geography you ask me:
"How many miles is it to Minneapolis?"

I answer:
"70 Miles east of here"

You say "GREAT!, I'm going there today" and you get in the car and start driving east. 60 miles pass, then 70, then 80, then 100 and so on... Finally, after about 250 miles you call me up on your cell phone complaining that I lied to you about the distance to Minneapolis.

I answer:
No, I did not lie. Minneapolis IS only 70 Miles from Seattle, it's just that there is a 2000 mile GAP between the 69th mile and the 70th mile.

Is this the method of our God? Deliberate Deception with the scapegoat of an unmentioned "Gap"?? I should think not.

What about the 70 Years of Babylonian captivity?
God said there would be 70 years and guess what? He was right! 70 CONSECUTIVE years.

There is no Gap, the 70 weeks run consecutive,100% consistant with ALL OTHER TIME PERIODS in scripture. EVERY SINGLE ONE, without fail, ALWAYS.

Peace,
P70

Okay, I'll wait celtic. But while I'm here, let me ask you one more question, if you don't mind.

Who set up the first abomination in the temple??

Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
Okay, I'll wait celtic. But while I'm here, let me ask you one more question, if you don't mind.

Who set up the first abomination in the temple??

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Well, It wasn't asked of me, but i guess thats ok.....

I do not understand the question anyway.

First Abomination? If you are referring the the "Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" there can only be one.

Nowhere in scripture do we find "multiple AoD's" prophesied.

Daniel Prophesied ONE AoD, and Jesus confirmed that, as of His ministry, Daniels prophesy had NOT been fulfilled in any way shape or form, that it 's fulfillment was yet future at that time He spoke.

If I'm missing some prophetic truth here, by all means enlighten me. I am a "truth seeker" after all and will gladly recant ANY "doctorine" I now hold if it can be shown to me to be untrue.

If you are not referring to the AoD spoken of By Daniel, but to any Temple abomination, I guess there have been several.... The Destruction of Solomons Temple(the 1st Temple) certainly would qualify as an abomination I should think!

Peace in the reigning Lord,
P70

HI, just reading through the arguments and someone mentioned the "flood" that is written in Revelation & Daniel; I see these as being symbolic as we are shown throughout Revelation, when explaining the beast:

And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood, which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remenent of her seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Is see this; The Dragon is (satan), the flood is a multitude of (people) that he sends after the woman (Israel) and the earth that swallows the flood, signifies a great earthquake.
The dragon (satan) then seeks those who keep the commandments of God; (who bear the sign of God in their right hand and in their forehead)

Dueteronomy explains the importance of keeping the commandments in chapter 6;
And thou shall bind them for a SIGN upon thine hand and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes (forehead).
Exodus 31;
Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep, for it is a SIGN between me and you throughout your generations, that ye may know I am the LORD thy God that sanctify you.
(didn't mean to get off the subject folks!)

I will admit I haven't read responses throughly so don't know what has already been stated. But I do believe that he will confirm the covenant for seven years, and it will be broken in the "midst" of the seven years. The covenant could be an evil, Antichist covenant or it could be the covenant just like made with Abraham and Sarah, in order to deceive the Jews into thinking he is their long-awaited Messiah. Anyway, the "midst" of the seven years, I believe will be shortly after confirmation, kicking off the last horrible three and one half years of Antichrist's reign. A whole seven years never has to happen, but at least three and a half years does, from the time of confirmation.----placesofrefuge

The only entity empowered to make, or "confirm" a covenant with the Jews is God.

People make treaties, only God can make Covenants.

YBIC,
P70

Here is my view of the Daniel 9:25-27, the Seventy Weeks:

Daniel 9:25 is the first 69 weeks (483 years)
Daniel 9:26 is "After" the 69 weeks, but not quite the 70th week (a gap of undetermined length, the Church Age)
Daniel 9:27 is the 70th week (the final 7 years before the Kingdom)

(Many Christian groups believe the 70th week has been fulfilled, and that when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D.70, that was the Abomination of Desolation.)

Here are some charts from my web page, if this helps, in how I view things:


"24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself; and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the convenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." Daniel 9:24-27

The weeks in this prophecy refer to weeks of years. The starting point of the prophecy in Daniel 9:25 is the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem. Artaxerxes, emperor of Persia, made such a decree . This decree is recorded in Nehemiah Chapter 2, in the month of Nisan, 20th year of Artaxerxes, which was in 445 B.C. Scholars have pinpointed the date to March 14, 445 B.C.(See http://www.direct.ca/trinity/king.html)

The time from the decree of Artaxerxes until Messiah the Prince according to the prophecy in Daniel 9:25 was 7 weeks (49 years) plus threescore and two weeks (62 weeks or 434 years), totaling to 69 weeks, or 483 years. Allowing for leap years and the 360-day prophetic year, scholars have shown that the prophecy pinpoints the time of Messiah the Prince, and the end of the 69th week, to Palm Sunday, April 6, 32 A.D. , the Triumphal Entry of Jesus into Jerusalem, which was also in fulfillment of Zechariah 9:9.(See http://www.direct.ca/trinity/king.html)

The first part of Daniel 9:26 tells about Messiah being "cut off, but not for himself". (Notice in Daniel 9:26, Messiah is not longer called Prince. I believe this coincides with John 19:15 when the chief priest answered Pilate "We have no king but Caeser.")

The second part of Daniel 9:26 tells about the city and the sanctuary being destroyed, that is Jerusalem and the Temple being destroyed. It also tells us that the "prince that shall come" will come from the people who destroy the city and the sanctuary and that "the end thereof shall be with a flood, and "unto the end of the war desolations are determined". This "prince that shall come" is the Antichrist, also called the Son of Perdition.
The Romans are the people who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D.70. So the Antichrist will come from Rome, or a revived Rome.



I believe that the gap between the 69th and 70th weeks was hinted at by Daniel in Daniel 10:1, when referring to the 490 year prophecy, he said the "thing was true, but the time appointed was long" (KJV). (NOTE: some of the newer Bible versions have changed this wording!)

The gap was confirmed by Paul:

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" II Thessalonians 2:3

Paul wrote his second epistle of Thessalonians about 20 years after the Triumphal Entry of Jesus into Jerusalem, which ended Daniel's 69th week, and the Crucifixion. Since the "man of sin" had not yet been revealed when Paul wrote the epistle, this proves the gap between the 69th and 70th weeks.

This gap is the Church Age, described by Paul as a mystery. From Ephesians Chapter 3:

"For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) When in other ages was not made known thto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit." Ephesians 3: 1-5

Furthermore, Paul says that "Wicked one' cannot be revealed, in other words, the Abomination of Desolation cannot occur, until after the Church has been taken out of the way. The event where the Church is taken out of the way is the Rapture.

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." II Thes 2:7-8

John, who received and wrote the Revelation on the Isle of Patmos about A.D. 95, also saw the 70th week of Daniel as future. The earlier destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D. 70, therefore, could not have completed Daniel's prophecy, as some have suggested.



It is interesting what Jesus said in John 5:43: "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." Perhaps the 70th week will begin where the 69th week left off, on a "Palm Sunday". Perhaps the Antichrist will enter Jerusalem just like Jesus did, but on a "False Palm Sunday". We know he will come "after the working of Satan withall power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thessalonians 2:9). Satan is well versed at scripture, although he tends to twist it! I am sure he will seem to fulfill many messianic prophecies..and this Antichrist, who comes in his own name, will be received as "king"..this could also be the event confirming "the covenant with many".



Daniel 9:27 tells us "he shall confirm the covenant with many" for one week, one 7-year period. The "he" refers to the last prince mentioned in Daniel 9:26, that being the "prince that shall come", or the Antichrist. And in the middle of the week "he" shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. The Abomination of Desolation of Daniel 9:27 (and Daniel 12:11) is referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14, and also by the apostle Paul in II Thessalonians 2:3-4, when the "man of sin", the "son of perdition", "sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God". This Abomination of Desolation will occur at the midpoint of the week. The final 3 1/2 years of this 70th week is referred to as the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21, and will be "such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

At the conclusion of the 70th week, 3 1/2 years after the Abomination of Desolation, the Lord shall "consume that Wicked one with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming." The Antichrist, his system, and those who worshiped the beast will be destroyed with the wrath of Almighty God (Revelation 19:15), the Kingdom will be established on Earth, and that will be the consummation of the Seventy Weeks of Daniel.