What do you think of this scripture passage?

JimB · Aug 10, 2012

What do you think of this passage? Does it apply today or is it to be ignored as just another one of those annoying Old Testament scriptures?

Accept the way God does things,
for who can straighten what he has made crooked?
Enjoy prosperity while you can,
but when hard times strike, realize that both come from God.
Remember that nothing is certain in this life. (Eccl. 7.13-14 NLT)

Frogster · Aug 10, 2012

Exactly, ties right in with Paul, and knowing all comes from God, as God displayed him in the death arena.

1 Cor 4:9 For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to human beings.

Yahu · Aug 10, 2012

JimB said:
What do you think of this passage? Does it apply today or is it to be ignored as just another one of those annoying Old Testament scriptures?

Accept the way God does things,
for who can straighten what he has made crooked?
Enjoy prosperity while you can,
but when hard times strike, realize that both come from God.
Remember that nothing is certain in this life. (Eccl. 7.13-14 NLT)

No such thing as an irrelevant or annoying OT scripture. Of course it still applies today. Yah is the same yesterday, today and forever. It is a fact of life. Look at Job for example.

Of course many modern day Christians toss out the nature of Yah presented in the Old Testament and try to turn Him into some soft and fluffy God of nothing but love. They forget He has many attributes including Wrathful, Vengeful, Just, Righteous .... It makes me wonder what god they are following sometimes.

Just about everything in the Old Testament applies today. The only thing that comes to mind that isn't is the need for animal sacrifices to be in right standing with Him or the need to travel to the temple for the feasts. After all we are not the nation of Israel and there is no temple.

The new testament is based on the old testament. It is the foundation of all scripture.

Optimax · Aug 10, 2012

The NT is a better covenant based on better promises!

Source Scripture · Aug 10, 2012

Agreed, the old Covenant was abolished, as per Hebrews 10:9.

Source Scripture · Aug 10, 2012

However, the Old testament is not abolished as a whole, as we all know.

JimB · Aug 10, 2012

Optimax said:
The NT is a better covenant based on better promises!

But God is not "better." He is the God who changes not, the same yestrerday, today, and forever. I read that somewhere.

Yahu · Aug 10, 2012

Source Scripture said:
Agreed, the old Covenant was abolished, as per Hebrews 10:9.

Covenants were not abolished, the 'new' is an addendum that modifies the old. It doesn't replace it. That isn't how Hebrew covenants works. They overlay, not replace. Replacement is a Greek concept of contracts.

Yah didn't chance, just how we can be made right in His eyes changed.

ChrisLeishy · Aug 10, 2012

I dont think all verses apply to everyone all the time but different verses will speak to us when we need them and lay dormant until need again. All are valuable and needed, but at differing times.

BTW I love Ecclesiastes. I might go read it now.

Frogster · Aug 10, 2012

Yahu said:
Covenants were not abolished, the 'new' is an addendum that modifies the old. It doesn't replace it. That isn't how Hebrew covenants works. They overlay, not replace. Replacement is a Greek concept of contracts.

Yah didn't chance, just how we can be made right in His eyes changed.

he's right, it was abolished, no priesthood, no temple, no sacrifices, and that was the heart of the cov, but lets not derail.

Heb 10:9then he added, See, I have come to do your will. He abolishes the first in order to establish the second.

Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

2 Cor 3;13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

jiminpa · Aug 10, 2012

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.

Is it all completed? Has he come to set His kingdom fully in place yet? Even then the OT won't be done away with, it will be completed as will the New Testament.

Frogster · Aug 10, 2012

Well, without getting into a whole eschatological thing, we can also say..

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

However, we can agree that the old cov is over, but yes, we have the OT.

So Jim's usage of the OP verse is fine, it is not a covenantal stipulation.

jiminpa · Aug 10, 2012

I agree that the law does not and never has saved anyone. Even in the OT there were those like King David who were looking to Messiah for salvation. To say that it is done away with throws away the character of God. Salvation in Jesus was always God's plan, from before the beginning. We are not saved by upholding the law, and never have been, but how much do we miss by not observing His lessons? Do you know how Jesus's birth was supposed to be celebrated? It's in the OT. There is a fast, and a call to preparation, a shadow of how it really went, then we actually tabernacle with God who comes to meet us under the stars in a temporary dwelling, just like Jesus. That's just one example. God did not change. Each covenant was built on the previous ones, and if we remove the foundations the latter ones have nothing to stand on. If we remove the former things from our understanding, we miss the heart of God. I'm not saying to legalistically adopt the Old Covenant. I am saying that God gave us demonstrations to practice, so that we could see His heart, and the more of those we recognize as He gave us the better we know Him.

SavedByGrace3 · Aug 10, 2012

JimB said:
What do you think of this passage? Does it apply today or is it to be ignored as just another one of those annoying Old Testament scriptures?

Accept the way God does things,
for who can straighten what he has made crooked?
Enjoy prosperity while you can,
but when hard times strike, realize that both come from God.
Remember that nothing is certain in this life. (Eccl. 7.13-14 NLT)

I think these are the words of a fallen preacher who is regurgitating all of his errors in life. The entire book is tongue in cheek and is not what we should believe, rather a reciting of his mistakes and what we should not believe... like the verses that follow your quote.

Do not be excessively righteous, and do not be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16

At some point in his life he held these things to be true.
Most are obviously wrong headed.
I am always surprized when people quote Eccl as what we should believe.
They need to study the entire book and find out what it is all about.

Frogster · Aug 10, 2012

jiminpa said:
I agree that the law does not and never has saved anyone. Even in the OT there were those like King David who were looking to Messiah for salvation. To say that it is done away with throws away the character of God. Salvation in Jesus was always God's plan, from before the beginning. We are not saved by upholding the law, and never have been, but how much do we miss by not observing His lessons? Do you know how Jesus's birth was supposed to be celebrated? It's in the OT. There is a fast, and a call to preparation, a shadow of how it really went, then we actually tabernacle with God who comes to meet us under the stars in a temporary dwelling, just like Jesus. That's just one example. God did not change. Each covenant was built on the previous ones, and if we remove the foundations the latter ones have nothing to stand on. If we remove the former things from our understanding, we miss the heart of God. I'm not saying to legalistically adopt the Old Covenant. I am saying that God gave us demonstrations to practice, so that we could see His heart, and the more of those we recognize as He gave us the better we know Him.

Well yes, we certainly have alot we can learn from the OT, and as per the OP verse.

Frogster · Aug 10, 2012

didaskalos said:
I think these are the words of a fallen preacher who is regurgitating all of his errors in life. The entire book is tongue in cheek and is not what we should believe, rather a reciting of his mistakes and what we should not believe... like the verses that follow your quote.

Do not be excessively righteous, and do not be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16

At some point in his life he held these things to be true.
Most are obviously wrong headed.
I am always surprized when people quote Eccl as what we should believe.
They need to study the entire book and find out what it is all about.

History bears witness, is this true? So we see that inspiration comes from many vantage points.

3:3 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:

2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

Simon Peter · Aug 10, 2012

Optimax said:
The NT is a better covenant based on better promises!

But what has the passage to do with covenant?

The passage is about how God sends both prosperity and trouble.
Do you think God stopped sending trouble in New Testament times?

peace,
Simon

Yahu · Aug 10, 2012

jiminpa said:
I agree that the law does not and never has saved anyone. Even in the OT there were those like King David who were looking to Messiah for salvation. To say that it is done away with throws away the character of God. Salvation in Jesus was always God's plan, from before the beginning. We are not saved by upholding the law, and never have been, but how much do we miss by not observing His lessons? Do you know how Jesus's birth was supposed to be celebrated? It's in the OT. There is a fast, and a call to preparation, a shadow of how it really went, then we actually tabernacle with God who comes to meet us under the stars in a temporary dwelling, just like Jesus. That's just one example. God did not change. Each covenant was built on the previous ones, and if we remove the foundations the latter ones have nothing to stand on. If we remove the former things from our understanding, we miss the heart of God. I'm not saying to legalistically adopt the Old Covenant. I am saying that God gave us demonstrations to practice, so that we could see His heart, and the more of those we recognize as He gave us the better we know Him.

I agree!

Frogster · Aug 10, 2012

Simon Peter said:
But what has the passage to do with covenant?

The passage is about how God sends both prosperity and trouble.
Do you think God stopped sending trouble in New Testament times?

peace,
Simon

troubled on every side, 2 Corinthians 4.

Yahu · Aug 10, 2012

didaskalos said:
I think these are the words of a fallen preacher who is regurgitating all of his errors in life. The entire book is tongue in cheek and is not what we should believe, rather a reciting of his mistakes and what we should not believe... like the verses that follow your quote.

Do not be excessively righteous, and do not be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16

I don't have a problem with that verse. I see it as being super self-righteous and arrogant in your wisdom. Excess and extremism leads to error in many ways.

What do you think of this scripture passage?

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