America truly is the Greatest Country in the World

Nekoda · Jul 3, 2012

Before commenting, please read the article, taking into consideration it's date and comparative relevance to today, without judging by the title only.

America truly is the Greatest Country in the World.
By: Kitty Werthmann (85 yrs.old)

You simply can't ignore the parallels between Austria 1938 and the USA 2012...read and realize the end game is near! | Peace . Gold . Liberty | Ron Paul 2012

Thoughts, comments welcome.

Touma · Jul 3, 2012

KingCrimson250 · Jul 3, 2012

If there is any reason to fear for the end of the USA, it would not be the points the article makes but rather the fact that it exists at all. Like this is completely insane. It's just one big, long equivocation fallacy.

Nekoda · Jul 3, 2012

KingCrimson250 said:
If there is any reason to fear for the end of the USA, it would not be the points the article makes but rather the fact that it exists at all. Like this is completely insane. It's just one big, long equivocation fallacy.

Equivocation fallacies are built on ambiguous words to draw false conclusions from the use of those words in other contexts.

A comparison of relative circumstances and cause and effect do not an equivocation fallacy make.

The change in Austria took only a few years. There are some that argue that it takes generations of gradualism and cross generational indoctrination to make changes - permanently.

As far as the USA ending *some time in the future* - from the perspective of some of us - it already *has* ended to a large degree. One sees borders and states and names and they say "it exists". As a country, yes. As a Constitutional Republic which respects the rule of law and individuals rights - increasingly and ever gradually - no.

As time passes, the USA will remain in name - but ever increasingly will come under the umbrella of the UN Charter, as it has been for some time.

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · Jul 3, 2012

The author writes that people's freedoms were gradually taken away.

That sounds like how the U.S. has removed the Native Americans.

How can anybody call a nation-state that systematically removed people from their land or killed them "the greatest country in the world"? How can anybody call a nation-state that systematically destroyed culture after culture "the greatest country in the world"?

Going Merry · Jul 3, 2012

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
The author writes that people's freedoms were gradually taken away.

That sounds like how the U.S. has removed the Native Americans.

How can anybody call a nation-state that systematically removed people from their land or killed them "the greatest country in the world"? How can anybody call a nation-state that systematically destroyed culture after culture "the greatest country in the world"?

Israel

blackjellybean · Jul 3, 2012

Nekoda said:
Before commenting, please read the article, taking into consideration it's date and comparative relevance to today, without judging by the title only.

America truly is the Greatest Country in the World.
By: Kitty Werthmann (85 yrs.old)

You simply can't ignore the parallels between Austria 1938 and the USA 2012...read and realize the end game is near! | Peace . Gold . Liberty | Ron Paul 2012

Thoughts, comments welcome.

So is the point of the article about America being the next Third Reich? It doesn't even appear to be about America.

Oh well. I'm glad I live in New Zealand.

Nekoda · Jul 3, 2012

blackjellybean said:
So is the point of the article about America being the next Third Reich? It doesn't even appear to be about America.

Oh well. I'm glad I live in New Zealand.

The article doesn't have one point. It makes multiple points about bringing down societies/nation states through depressions, war, breakup of the family unit, state indoctrination of children etc. The person who quoted it on that website sees parallels with what is happening in the US on a gradual basis.

Change too fast and people notice, and resist. Do it gradually and people just think it's "normal".

Btw - The UN has plans for NZ and every other country on earth. Agenda 21 is not a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. It is a reality that is really being pushed. Again - on a gradual basis - and with nice sounding terms.

TheUnforeseen · Jul 3, 2012

blackjellybean said:
Oh well. I'm glad I live in New Zealand.

New Zealand is on the way to becoming a puppet to the USA.

blackjellybean · Jul 3, 2012

Wild Heart Like A Wolf said:
New Zealand is on the way to becoming a puppet to the USA.

Yeah, that's why we told them to shove it when they tried to bring their nuclear carriers here.

TheUnforeseen · Jul 3, 2012

blackjellybean said:
Yeah, that's why we told them to shove it when they tried to bring their nuclear carriers here.

Yes, that was a good government, but now the opposition is ruling. You see, they are even doing joint military training with the US now, fighting in wars that aren't our fight (Afghanistan). It's all politics, with the expansion of China through the Pacific, the US are looking to use us against them. Just give it time, it's all politics playing a game of chess.

MacFall · Jul 3, 2012

blackjellybean said:
Yeah, that's why we told them to shove it when they tried to bring their nuclear carriers here.

They might still invade you for that. (I do not use the word "we" with reference to the US even though I live here).

MacFall · Jul 3, 2012

Leonard Piekoff wrote similarly in The Ominous Parallels. It is true - we are in a similar condition as Germany was before they accepted the Nazi Party. But it goes deeper than economics. People accept the same principles. People scapegoat. People look to the same organization for solutions. And people think that their nation is too special to end up under the heel of a tyrant. When I hear Americans saying "it can't happen here", I can't help remembering the Jewish woman, a medical doctor, who was convinced that Hitler's Germany would be an unimaginable blessing to "educated Jews". She died in the holocaust.

blackjellybean · Jul 3, 2012

MacFall said:
Leonard Piekoff wrote similarly in The Ominous Parallels. It is true - we are in a similar condition as Germany was before they accepted the Nazi Party. But it goes deeper than economics. People accept the same principles. People scapegoat. People look to the same organization for solutions. And people think that their nation is too special to end up under the heel of a tyrant. When I hear Americans saying "it can't happen here", I can't help remembering the Jewish woman, a medical doctor, who was convinced that Hitler's Germany would be an unimaginable blessing to "educated Jews". She died in the holocaust.

Do you think a dictatorship could rise to power in the US without a big civil war?

leothelioness · Jul 3, 2012

Nekoda said:
Change too fast and people notice, and resist. Do it gradually and people just think it's "normal".

Didn't read the article, don't really care to, but I do agree with this statement. Satan is the master of subtlety.

MacFall · Jul 3, 2012

blackjellybean said:
Do you think a dictatorship could rise to power in the US without a big civil war?

Yes. Imagine people in a 9/12 attitude after a disaster like 9/11, having suffered years of economic depression, and someone comes along offering a scapegoat (who would it be, Mexicans? Muslims? Wall Street, or Wall Street protestors?) and a solution.

Hitler didn't become a dictator overnight. The Nazi Party was elected in full compliance with the Wiemar Constitution, and Hitler was appointed by a democratic plurality. It was months before Hitler did anything controversial, and years before he did anything unconstitutional. He had enough patience to wait until the Reichstag fire gave him an excuse - or, as some think, had someone to blame for the fire that his agents would actually cause - to seize dictatorial power.

Human nature is the same now and here as it was there and then.

KingCrimson250 · Jul 3, 2012

My country is significantly more leftist than the US.

My country is not lacking any non-trivial freedoms. Our gun laws are a bit more restrictive, but somehow life goes on.

My point is not to assert leftism as being better than rightism, or even to compare countries. My point is that to associate a shift towards more leftist policies with a rising dictatorship is a bizarre, unfounded view that seems uniquely American (more accurately, uniquely Republican).

Most countries in the western world have socialized health care now (because I just know Obamacare is what brought this on) and it's worked out rather well for us. Again, not trying to say that public health care is better, just trying to say that socialism /= a looming tyrannical dictatorship.

toastface_grillah · Jul 3, 2012

The article lost me as soon as I saw Ron Paul's name attached. If we as a country are worried about becoming a puppet to anyone, we should worry about becoming a puppet to corporate interests more than the UN.

MacFall · Jul 4, 2012

toastface_grillah said:
The article lost me as soon as I saw Ron Paul's name attached. If we as a country are worried about becoming a puppet to anyone, we should worry about becoming a puppet to corporate interests more than the UN.

Well, then you might consider listening to the only politician who is against the corporate state - namely, Ron Paul, who is completely against corporate welfare and the conference of legal privileges (esp. liability exemptions and the ability to write regulations that crush small businesses) that create corporations in the first place. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your bias if that's what makes you feel comfortable.

Thomas1984 · Jul 4, 2012

toastface_grillah said:
The article lost me as soon as I saw Ron Paul's name attached. If we as a country are worried about becoming a puppet to anyone, we should worry about becoming a puppet to corporate interests more than the UN.

MacFall said:
Well, then you might consider listening to the only politician who is against the corporate state - namely, Ron Paul, who is completely against corporate welfare and the conference of legal privileges (esp. liability exemptions and the ability to write regulations that crush small businesses) that create corporations in the first place. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your bias if that's what makes you feel comfortable.

Not to be argumentative, but I would also like to hear why you dislike (for want of a better word) with Ron Paul's stance in Politics?

As for the orginal article, I personally wouldn't draw direct comparisons between Pre-WW2 Austria and the current situation in the USA, mainly because I don't think Barack Obama can be compared to Adolf Hitler. Saying that, I do recognise the link between severe economic hardship and war, and the problems (huge national debts, inflation, a steady shift towards Corporatism etc) facing the US and Europe are on a historic scale.

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