Is it a sin to hate ourselves if God hates us?

fhansen said:

Sheez. The entire point of the Christain faith is that God loves man in spite of his sin-God's always loved man, His creation. So He hates sin, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us". (Rom 5:8)) That's love, not hate. Man hated God without reason according to scripture, enmity comes from man while God loves unconditionally, whether we like it or not.

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I think some ignore this. They see the enmity between God and man as coming from God's end; when it is from our end. The enmity between God and man is our enmity toward God. Otherwise, why Christ? Jesus is the Testimony of God's unflinching and uncompromising love for sinners.

-CryptoLutheran

Ultima4257 said:

Okay I confess it is me we are talking about. Also, for the record I am not an athiest and don't believe in evolution, although sometimes I wish I could.

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Why would you want to believe in evolution?

Ultima4257 said:

Sorry, let me be more specific. I wish that I couldn't believe in the God of the bible. However, I have seen and experienced too many things for me to discount him. I don't think evolution on the other hand is a sound theory, and I think this universe was created by intilligent design.

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Why would you not want to believe in God?

Ultima4257 said:

Okay I confess it is me we are talking about. Also, for the record I am not an athiest and don't believe in evolution, although sometimes I wish I could.

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I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I've been in hell, too. It ain't fun. Jesus promised that we would all be salted with fire...and sometimes it sure feels like God's just making popcorn.

Be sure to be honest with your God. Tell him all these things and don't try to pretty it up. It might be that the Spirit is smashing up all the cutesy cliches of God that you no doubt have in your head. (We all do, trust me.) When our sacred cows get torched, it hurts like hell.

I'll be praying for you, brother.

Ultima4257 said:

Sorry, let me be more specific. I wish that I couldn't believe in the God of the bible. However, I have seen and experienced too many things for me to discount him. I don't think evolution on the other hand is a sound theory, and I think this universe was created by intilligent design.

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I know it's not the point of your thread, but it's worth pointing out that evolution isn't atheistic and isn't at odds with belief in an intelligent designer. Some of great minds at the forefront of science (including evolutionary science) are devout Christians: physicists (such as John Polkinghorne), paleontologists (such as Robert Baker), geneticists (such as Francis Collins), etc. That's important to understand, just from a matter-of-fact perspective.

Let's get to the point though. Where does Jesus fit into the structure of your present belief? You've presented a litany of biblical passages in order to claim that God hates us, but there remains a distinct problem here: Jesus. What do you do with Jesus? After all, Christianity isn't about a series of biblical passages strung together, but about the Child born to Mary who grew up in Nazareth in Galilee and spent His time with prostitutes, tax collectors, and sinners talking about the God who loves the unloved.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

I know it's not the point of your thread, but it's worth pointing out that evolution isn't atheistic and isn't at odds with belief in an intelligent designer.

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We interrupt this post to point out that this opening statement is incorrect. Thanks for your attention. Please carry on.

ViaCrucis said:

Some of great minds at the forefront of science (including evolutionary science) are devout Christians: physicists (such as John Polkinghorne), paleontologists (such as Robert Baker), geneticists (such as Francis Collins), etc. That's important to understand, just from a matter-of-fact perspective.

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We interrupt this post to point out that agreement with an unbiblical belief nonetheless supported by a Christian does not make the belief biblical. It makes the Christian incorrect. Thanks for your attention. Please carry on.

ViaCrucis said:

Let's get to the point though. Where does Jesus fit into the structure of your present belief? You've presented a litany of biblical passages in order to claim that God hates us, but there remains a distinct problem here: Jesus. What do you do with Jesus? After all, Christianity isn't about a series of biblical passages strung together, but about the Child born to Mary who grew up in Nazareth in Galilee and spent His time with prostitutes, tax collectors, and sinners talking about the God who loves the unloved.

-CryptoLutheran

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From the point of last interruption, excellent post. We now conclude our current monitoring of the thread. Thank you for your attention.

Sorry, I'm feeling somewhat silly this morning.

WinBySurrender said:

Sorry, I'm feeling somewhat silly this morning.

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And just a touch on the sardonic side.

athenken said:

And just a touch on the sardonic side.

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A tad, perhaps.

But I did compliment the balance of the post.

Dear Ultima4257. God is Love, and God does abhor all sin and wrongdoings, but I believe " hate" is the wrong word to use. As for God abhorring all sin, it is always the sin which God frowns upon, it is never the sinner. God loves us, and God wants us to let go of all sinning, and repent and change for the better. Jesus our Saviour is ever-ready to help us to become " born-again" and change from selfish and wilful, to loving and caring. " Loving God with all our hearts, and loving our neighbour as ourselves. To hate is not a word which God would use to us, God is Love and and God loves us.
We all know " what we sow we will also reap," and it is God`s eternal Law which will deal with us. God wants our Love for God our Heavenly Father, and love for our neighbour, ( all others) as we love ourselves, never hate yourself.
I say this with love, Ultima. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Ultima4257 said:

Sorry for the late reply, but I haven't monitored this thread for the past few days. Personally I don't have much of a problem with Jesus. He is the only reason why I am so torn on this issue, because his life showed us a complete opposite picture than the God of the Old Testament. However, that being said, God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Jesus also said in Matthew 5:18

"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

So this is the problem I have. On one side you have God, who does hate sinners and on the other side you have Jesus, who was God, loving sinners and dying for them. I don't get how you reconcile the two versions of God presented in the bible. I don't see how God who commanded the destruction of entire nations (women, children, infants), when Jesus said to turn the other cheek. I don't understand how God could approve of slavery and rape victims marrying their rapists when Jesus said do unto others as you would have them due unto you for this sums up the law and the prophets.

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The Christian faith has consistently recognized and proclaimed that the God revealed by Jesus Christ is a God of unconditional, inexhaustible love and that's the testimony we're bound to acknowledge, while scripture by itself isn't always easy to understand.

Personally I believe that the OT through to the NT is, in part, the history of mans' coming to know more and more fully just who God really is-as humankind becomes ready to accept more and more of His light. When we still prefer anger and vengeance, then our God will likewise be angry and vengeful.

But the Atonement is all about demonstrating the true nature of God-that He really does exist, that He's trustworthy and just beyond our imagination, that He's always loved man and that enmity and mistrust came from man, not Him, and that man's mistrust has been his problem all along and the reason for his sin since the beginning, starting with the original sin. This is why faith is so important, in order to re-establish the relationship between God and man lost and destroyed at the Fall.

Anyway, God will always hate evil-but always love man. And Jesus proved this by dying for us while we're yet sinners.

Listen to these talks sometime. They contain some very healthy teaching and perspectives.

Steve McVey: The Father Gets a Bad Rap | Grace Communion International
Steve McVey: What Is God's Wrath? | Grace Communion International
Gary Deddo: Is It Hard to Be Saved? | Grace Communion International
Cherith Fee Nordling: Image Bearers for God | Grace Communion International

The really good news of the Gospel will give you a far healthier mindset.

Bless you
John

Ultima4257 said:

Thank you for the replies everyone. I will go and let that person know that if you follow the interpretation of the bible then it should be okay to hate themselves since God already hates them. This will be of some relief to them, knowing that everytime they hate themselves it isn't counted against them on judgement day.

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Also remember the reason why we have Christ. Our sins are cleansed through him. That is why we must accept him as our lord and savior and ALL sins are cleansed. Faith is Gods key to respond to his beloved. If you hate yourself, and swear that God hates you, than one has no faith in God at all. God forgives, tell your friend that, but the grace of god and the power of Jesus Christ is not only to clean your sins but to give to power to NOT sin. transformation is effortless. Its christ who does it. All we need to do is have faith in the word and keep moving forward instead of looking back at the bad and the sins. God loves all of his believers. We slip up many times but that is why we have his grace. Its a process...day by day. But in the end its all gravy.

Ultima4257 said:

Thank you for your replies everyone. It seems I will never be able to reconcile this view of God, but I appreciate your attempts in trying to show me.

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It is possible you are trying to do it all on your own. Ask God to show you the truth as you read through the Bible. He will be faithful to lead you down the right path.