Is it a sin to hate ourselves if God hates us?

[Ultima4257]

Hello,

First off I am not sure if this the right board to post this question on, so my apologies in advance if that is the case. So basically I know someone who hates themselves and doesn't think it is a sin to do so because God seems to hate sinners. So my question to you is if this individual isn't saved, does that mean that it is okay to hate themselves since God hates sinners? The reference I am referring to is Psalms 5:5-6

[FONT=Arial, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]“The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”[/FONT]

Following that passage, it seems very clear that God hates sinners. Therefore, since this individual isn't saved and is a sinner, does that mean it is okay to hate themselves since God does?
[FONT=Arial, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]

 

[WinBySurrender]

Hello,

First off I am not sure if this the right board to post this question on, so my apologies in advance if that is the case. So basically I know someone who hates themselves and doesn't think it is a sin to do so because God seems to hate sinners. So my question to you is if this individual isn't saved, does that mean that it is okay to hate themselves since God hates sinners? The reference I am referring to is Psalms 5:5-6

[FONT=Arial, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]“The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”[/FONT]

Following that passage, it seems very clear that God hates sinners. Therefore, since this individual isn't saved and is a sinner, does that mean it is okay to hate themselves since God does?

My question would be, does he/she really hate him/herself, or is this just an excuse not to submit to God: "Oh, He hates me anyway so why bother?"

 

[Ultima4257]

No, this individual really does hate themself. As a matter of fact, things use to be better for this person, because they were seeking God and they felt closer to him, even though they did hate themselves. Then they heard some teaching on hell and this verse was used. Ever since then it has been a downward spiral for this person, since they obviously can't trust or be close to a God who hates them since they are sinners.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The love of God is given impartially to sinners. Indeed, the only people God loves here on earth are sinners: You, me, everyone. There is no other kind of person living on this planet.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BuffMonkey5]

We should all strive to be like God, and we should love the same things God loves and conversely hate the things God hates. If we assume God hates us, we can conclude that we should hate ourselves. A sin is anything we should do and don't, so it would be a sin to not hate ourselves.

Of course, this is assuming that God does hate us, which truth value is unknowable.

 

[Johnnz]

"For God so loved the world ..." i.e. sinners. "Even when we were still enemies God loved us" wrote Paul.

God has never given up on his beloved creatures.

John
NZ

 

[Ultima4257]

Thank you for the replies everyone. I will go and let that person know that if you follow the interpretation of the bible then it should be okay to hate themselves since God already hates them. This will be of some relief to them, knowing that everytime they hate themselves it isn't counted against them on judgement day.

 

[athenken]

This is one of the biggest problems with society's understanding of Christianity, which is not helped by groups like the WBC. God does not hate sinners, He hates sin. There is a huge difference.

 

[Ultima4257]

This is one of the biggest problems with society's understanding of Christianity, which is not helped by groups like the WBC. God does not hate sinners, He hates sin. There is a huge difference.

While I would love to believe that is true, the above verse in my post clearly states the opposite. God does hate the sinner. That is fine I guess, but at least I have a choice to not love him in return.

 

[athenken]

While I would love to believe that is true, the above verse in my post clearly states the opposite. God does hate the sinner. That is fine I guess, but at least I have a choice to not love him in return.

You apparently missed the point of the verse you quoted. It is not talking about all sinners, it is talking about those who are willful sinners. If we took your definition then God would hate everyone who has ever lived. This is simply not true. God hates those who are unrepentant and would cause others to stumble.

 

[Ultima4257]

You apparently missed the point of the verse you quoted. It is not talking about all sinners, it is talking about those who are willful sinners. If we took your definition then God would hate everyone who has ever lived. This is simply not true. God hates those who are unrepentant and would cause others to stumble.

That may be true to a certain extent, but everyone on this planet has WILLFUL sinned. Thus we are sinners hated by God.

 

[athenken]

That may be true to a certain extent, but everyone on this planet has WILLFUL sinned. Thus we are sinners hated by God.

Sin is in our nature. God loves us in spite of our nature. We are His creation, that is why He loves us. He is more concerned with the heart of the sinner than their actual deeds. If a person is unrepentant in their heart then they are lost to Him.

One other thought. If God truly hated us because we are sinners He would not have sent His Son to die for our sins. How do you reconcile that with your assertion?

John 3:16

 

[seeingeyes]

Psalms 5:
"Give ear to my words, O Lord,consider my sighing.
Listen to my cry for help,
my King and my God,
for to you I pray.
In the morning, O Lord, you hear my voice;
in the morning I lay my requests before you
and wait in expectation.
You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil;
with you the wicked cannot dwell.
The arrogant cannot stand in your presence;
you hate all who do wrong.
You destroy those who tell lies;
bloodthirsty and deceitful men
the Lord abhors.
But I, by your great mercy,
will come into your house;
in reverence will I bow down
toward your holy temple.
Lead me, O Lord, in your righteousness
because of my enemies—
make straight your way before me.
Not a word from their mouth can be trusted;
their heart is filled with destruction.
Their throat is an open grave;
with their tongue they speak deceit.
Declare them guilty, O God!
Let their intrigues be their downfall.
Banish them for their many sins,
for they have rebelled against you.
But let all who take refuge in you be glad;
let them ever sing for joy.
Spread your protection over them,
that those who love your name may rejoice in you.
For surely, O Lord, you bless the righteous;
you surround them with your favor as with a shield."

The righteous are those who take refuge in God. This whole Psalm is a cry for help, a plea for rescue. And remember, David had some pretty serious enemies. He was in someone's crosshairs from the day Samuel annointed him all the way up to the day his own traitor of a son died hanging from a tree.

When even the people you are supposed to be able to trust are gunnin' for you, you need some serious God-sized intervention. And so David turned to the God of mercy, who rescues all who turn to Him in faith.

Did God love David when he was a cheeky shepherd with more faith than brains, and then start hating him when he turned out to be a lying murderous adulterer, and then start loving him again when he repented? Surely not. That would make God no more reliable than David.

God's grace is more sure than the ground beneath our feet. Whether we like it or not. God's grace is what tripped up Jonah who just wanted to see fire rain down on Ninevah. God's grace is what tripped up Job's friends who were quite certain that Job didn't deserve any. God's grace is what tripped up the Pharisees who thought that a true man of God wouldn't be caught dead hanging out with blatant sinners.

God shows grace to the undeserving and mercy to the unforgivable and love to the unlovable. Jesus said, "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful." We must love our enemies, even if that enemy is our own self. That's what our Dad would do.

 

[ViaCrucis]

While I would love to believe that is true, the above verse in my post clearly states the opposite. God does hate the sinner. That is fine I guess, but at least I have a choice to not love him in return.

You do realize the silliness that is taking one or two verses and then rejecting the grand sweep of Scripture don't you?

Perhaps if the verse you quoted was the only statement in the entire Bible, then sure, you'd have a point. But it's not. Throughout the course of many different books, from the pen of hundreds of different authors, and of course the clear apostolic testimony God loves sinners, that is, God loves everyone.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ultima4257]

You do realize the silliness that is taking one or two verses and then rejecting the grand sweep of Scripture don't you?

Perhaps if the verse you quoted was the only statement in the entire Bible, then sure, you'd have a point. But it's not. Throughout the course of many different books, from the pen of hundreds of different authors, and of course the clear apostolic testimony God loves sinners, that is, God loves everyone.

-CryptoLutheran

Fair enough, I only provided one verse, so let me provide you with a few more okay:

Leviticus 20:23 - "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them."

Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."

Deuteronomy 32:19 - "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters."
Psalm 5:5 - "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalm 5:6 - "Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."
Psalm 10:3 - "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalm 11:5 - "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

Psalm 53:5 - "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them."

Psalm 73:20 - "As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image."

Psalm 78:59 - "When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:"

Psalm 106:40 - "Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance."

Proverbs 6:16-19 - "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 22:14 - "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

Lamentations 2:6 - "And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest."

Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."

Zechariah 11:8 - "Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me."

Malachi 1:3 - "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

 

[ViaCrucis]

Fair enough, I only provided one verse, so let me provide you with a few more okay:

Leviticus 20:23 - "And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them."

Leviticus 26:30 - "And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you."

Deuteronomy 32:19 - "And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters."
Psalm 5:5 - "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity."

Psalm 5:6 - "Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."
Psalm 10:3 - "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth."

Psalm 11:5 - "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."

Psalm 53:5 - "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them."

Psalm 73:20 - "As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image."

Psalm 78:59 - "When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:"

Psalm 106:40 - "Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance."

Proverbs 6:16-19 - "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 22:14 - "The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein."

Lamentations 2:6 - "And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest."

Hosea 9:15 - "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."

Zechariah 11:8 - "Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me."

Malachi 1:3 - "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Romans 9:13 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

So what do you make of Jesus? How does Jesus fit into your theology?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Johnnz]

Those verses are about people who have rejected God's ways either individually or collectively. They in no way dilute the overarching message of both Testaments, more especially the New, of God's incredible love for his creations.

John
NZ

 

[MyLordMySavior]

Hello,

First off I am not sure if this the right board to post this question on, so my apologies in advance if that is the case. So basically I know someone who hates themselves and doesn't think it is a sin to do so because God seems to hate sinners. So my question to you is if this individual isn't saved, does that mean that it is okay to hate themselves since God hates sinners? The reference I am referring to is Psalms 5:5-6

[FONT=Arial, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]“The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”[/FONT]

Following that passage, it seems very clear that God hates sinners. Therefore, since this individual isn't saved and is a sinner, does that mean it is okay to hate themselves since God does?
[FONT=Arial, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]

God doesn't hate the sinner. He hates the sin. God loves us unconditionally, there is NOTHING we can do to separate His love for us.

Romans 8:37-39

"But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

 

[WinBySurrender]

While I would love to believe that is true, the above verse in my post clearly states the opposite. God does hate the sinner. That is fine I guess, but at least I have a choice to not love him in return.

So we get to the crux of the matter. It isn't "someone you know" who hates themselves, it is you. And you are using one verse out of over 7,000 to justify, not hating yourself, but hating God.

You could have posted that in the first place and our replies would have been more on point. God does not hate the sinner, and His blessings fall on the just and the unjust alike.

Matthew 5 NASB
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
​

You are under God's blessing for the basic necessities of life. I'm sure you think it's just an accident of environment and biology that you live, but I assure you it is not. God does not hate you, and He desires a relationship with you. So stop making excuses and seek out the God of the universe.

 

[fhansen]

Sheez. The entire point of the Christain faith is that God loves man in spite of his sin-God's always loved man, His creation. So He hates sin, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us". (Rom 5:8)) That's love, not hate. Man hated God without reason according to scripture, enmity comes from man while God loves unconditionally, whether we like it or not.