To all athiests out there: bring it on
- Thread starter tacoman528
- Start date
Why does your status say "away" when you are here? You might want to change that in your CP, WinAce.
Upvote
0
"I challenge anyone who thinks that science disproves the bible."
I accept the challenge.
The Bible says that the sky is solid hard.
(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.
"dome" in original Hebrew:
Raqiya` (raw-kee'-ah)
extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
expanse (flat as base, support)
firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above
So how do we know "Raqiya`" doesn't mean "expanse"?
(Job 37:18 NRSV) Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
(Prov 8:28 NRSV) when he made firm the skies above, ...
"firm" in original Hebrew:
'amats (aw-mats')
to be strong, alert, courageous, brave, stout, bold, solid, hard
Atmospheric science does not say the sky is hard like a mirror (quite the contrary). Only the primitive superstition of Middle Eastern tribes say that the sky is a hard dome. This would lead us to at least one of the following conclusions:
1. The Bible is wrong in some parts.
2. The meaning of the Bible is vague enough that it cannot be contradicted by science in some parts, which can easily be extended to all parts.
It is based on this God-inspired writ that creation science is trying to force itself into our public schools. God help our children.
Abe
I accept the challenge.
The Bible says that the sky is solid hard.
(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.
"dome" in original Hebrew:
Raqiya` (raw-kee'-ah)
extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
expanse (flat as base, support)
firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above
So how do we know "Raqiya`" doesn't mean "expanse"?
(Job 37:18 NRSV) Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
(Prov 8:28 NRSV) when he made firm the skies above, ...
"firm" in original Hebrew:
'amats (aw-mats')
to be strong, alert, courageous, brave, stout, bold, solid, hard
Atmospheric science does not say the sky is hard like a mirror (quite the contrary). Only the primitive superstition of Middle Eastern tribes say that the sky is a hard dome. This would lead us to at least one of the following conclusions:
1. The Bible is wrong in some parts.
2. The meaning of the Bible is vague enough that it cannot be contradicted by science in some parts, which can easily be extended to all parts.
It is based on this God-inspired writ that creation science is trying to force itself into our public schools. God help our children.
Abe
Upvote
0
Actually, it was Babylonian science that made this claim. Biblical cosmogeny is Babylonian cosmogeny. The Biblical writers set their theology in the best science of the day. Yes, the science was wrong, but that does not make it "primitive superstition".
Upvote
0
"That is not a problem with science, but simply the data you have on hand at the time"
Noooo, the problem is science is ill equiped to deal with the issue. That's the problem.
"Methodological materialism has nothing to do with any possible flaws or lack of data in an specific theory."
Untrue with your application. Science cannot deal, nor produce, a correct theory when the supernatural is involved. why? Its not the right tool for the job.
"Take the rotational energy and transfer that to the motion of the molecules that make up the earth. You end up with motions of the molecules that correspond to a couple of thousand degrees centigrade."
You're assuming tons of other factors remained constant. Again, give me your paper, I'd love to read it.
"Covering up that consequence (hiding God's action) is actually covering up the miracle by another one so that it appears that God did not act. That is deception."
LOL, no its not, and I gave you an example showing as such. Like I said before science is ILL EQUIPED in dealing with these instances. Science would say the cancer just wasn't there before or something to that effect. It would be ill-equiped to explain the event, just as it would the other one. Your failed atempt at calling God a "deciever" did give me a chuckle though, thanks
"My language is telling it like it is. "
No, you're actually using loaded language. You also assume that I believe evolutionists are "bad guys". this is not so for anything scienitific isn't "bad or good" its correct and incorrect. Its not a moral issue and I find it pretty funny that you're trying to turn it into one being that you're an evolutionist yourself.
Noooo, the problem is science is ill equiped to deal with the issue. That's the problem.
"Methodological materialism has nothing to do with any possible flaws or lack of data in an specific theory."
Untrue with your application. Science cannot deal, nor produce, a correct theory when the supernatural is involved. why? Its not the right tool for the job.
"Take the rotational energy and transfer that to the motion of the molecules that make up the earth. You end up with motions of the molecules that correspond to a couple of thousand degrees centigrade."
You're assuming tons of other factors remained constant. Again, give me your paper, I'd love to read it.
"Covering up that consequence (hiding God's action) is actually covering up the miracle by another one so that it appears that God did not act. That is deception."
LOL, no its not, and I gave you an example showing as such. Like I said before science is ILL EQUIPED in dealing with these instances. Science would say the cancer just wasn't there before or something to that effect. It would be ill-equiped to explain the event, just as it would the other one. Your failed atempt at calling God a "deciever" did give me a chuckle though, thanks
"My language is telling it like it is. "
No, you're actually using loaded language. You also assume that I believe evolutionists are "bad guys". this is not so for anything scienitific isn't "bad or good" its correct and incorrect. Its not a moral issue and I find it pretty funny that you're trying to turn it into one being that you're an evolutionist yourself.
Upvote
0
lucaspa: "Actually, it was Babylonian science that made this claim. Biblical cosmogeny is Babylonian cosmogeny. The Biblical writers set their theology in the best science of the day. Yes, the science was wrong, but that does not make it "primitive superstition"."
I stand corrected!
I stand corrected!
Upvote
0
posted by lucaspa: "One problem with that is that if that happens, then in many instances there are going to be consequences that we can study today. For instance, if God really had stopped the rotation of the planet to let Joshua continue the battle, the heat generated by doing that would melt the planet. If you try to save that by saying that God tinkered with everything so that there were no consequences so that it looks like there was no direct action, then you have made God into a deceiver. A liar. Now, while science can accept a deity that plays such games, Christianity cannot. At the price of "proving" God exists, you have destroyed the trust of God that is the basis of Christianity."
You've got to be kidding right? Obviously, if God knew it would burn up everything--then He wouldn't let that happen. So, the account did indeed happen, and the miracle was the whole process in general. Miracle: The whole stopping ordeal, and not letting the earth burn up. So, there you have it... God the deciever--yea right!
Believe
FOW
You've got to be kidding right? Obviously, if God knew it would burn up everything--then He wouldn't let that happen. So, the account did indeed happen, and the miracle was the whole process in general. Miracle: The whole stopping ordeal, and not letting the earth burn up. So, there you have it... God the deciever--yea right!
Believe
FOW
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Ultimo, I believe the answer you are looking for is "Yes, but He could still lift it" (He can make it so heavy it is impossible for Him to lift, but He can also do the impossible).
Upvote
0
"God can do anything right? Could he make a rock so big, he couldn't even lift it?
"
Yes, he could. Its called limiting yourself. If Micheal jordan wanted to let me beat him at basketball he would have to limit himself.
"
Yes, he could. Its called limiting yourself. If Micheal jordan wanted to let me beat him at basketball he would have to limit himself.
Upvote
0
Outspoken, after your sniping attack you seem to have little to contribute to reasonable argue ment
Upvote
0
"Outspoken, after your sniping attack you seem to have little to contribute to reasonable argue ment"
I was just commenting on your "sniping" attack, not making one
I was just commenting on your "sniping" attack, not making one
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Jerry Smith: "(He can make it so heavy it is impossible for Him to lift, but He can also do the impossible)."
You're kidding, right? If He can do it then it is not impossible.
You're kidding, right? If He can do it then it is not impossible.
Upvote
0
Hey guys, mind if I jump in?
Personally, I think there is a much easier answer than what has been said. God cannot do anything. There are a number of things God cannot do. He cannot lie or cease to exist, for example, since if He did He would cease to be God and would never have been God (since He is outside of time). To lie would be to deny His nature, doing something that He by our definition (assuming the Biblical definition is true) does not do.
The ability to do anything is obviously a logical contradiction. This is because the ability to do anything precludes inability to do things. Since something is precluded, we have something God can't do. The real trick with this dumb question is that it is a word game that effectively states "Is God so powerful He can limit Himself?" Now, one attempting to show God can do anything could argue that God is outside of logic, but you still have the problem of those things He can't do (unless you disagree with that).
What do you guys think about this? (Thx from the newb)
Personally, I think there is a much easier answer than what has been said. God cannot do anything. There are a number of things God cannot do. He cannot lie or cease to exist, for example, since if He did He would cease to be God and would never have been God (since He is outside of time). To lie would be to deny His nature, doing something that He by our definition (assuming the Biblical definition is true) does not do.
The ability to do anything is obviously a logical contradiction. This is because the ability to do anything precludes inability to do things. Since something is precluded, we have something God can't do. The real trick with this dumb question is that it is a word game that effectively states "Is God so powerful He can limit Himself?" Now, one attempting to show God can do anything could argue that God is outside of logic, but you still have the problem of those things He can't do (unless you disagree with that).
What do you guys think about this? (Thx from the newb)
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
It certainly makes sense to say that there are certain things which are logically impossible; eg: black cannot be red, good cannot be bad, acid cannot be alkili, etc. It isn't a case of "God could do xyz if He wanted to, but He would never want to." it's more "God cannot do xyz not because of a case of lacking the power to do so, but because doing xyz is incompatable with the state of being God.", eg: "God cannot be inferior to humans" is not about something God cannot do, it is a description of the quality of God.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
