Doctrines of Christ Jesus and Apostles/Disciples

Revelation 14:6-12 said:

So, if He [to be clear, not "I"] were to reveal to you that what the Roman Catholic church in her doctrines teaches are not in harmony with Him, you would follow Him instead and come out?

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Pythons said:

Of course Rev 14! Who wouldn't come out of their errors if it was demonstrated to them....
...By Scripture and simple logic they had been fed a bad batch of beef?
...I trust your own answer to this very question would be the same as mine, right? ...

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In a brief reply to, "Who wouldn't...", an answer would be, Those who are unwilling to walk in the light revealed and they also who reject knowledge because they choose to refuse to see and hear for whatever reason. For is it not said, "...this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." [John 3:19] and "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge..." [Hosea 4:6].

We should not be such as they are, for we should be as those who "...follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. ..." [Revelation 14:4], even as was said to Simon 'Peter' Barjona by Jesus, "...follow thou me." [John 21:22] and even to us all, "...Whosoever...", and "If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." [Luke 9:23; see also Matthew 16:24; Mark 8:34].

My own answer was previously stated that I indeed have followed after Jesus and continue to do so [by His Love and Grace].

If you would not mind, before we look at anything specific together, if you would not mind a few days apart for prayer, asking for His Holy Spirit for guidance and wisdom and fruit, and for reading and searching of the Scriptures, and other Christ-centered material and then we can come back together after such, to then begin, knowing that we each may converse with the right heart towards God and one another? If I may make a suggestion [and only such] as well?, that in whatever else we decide to read, study or listen to in the interim, could we also include the Gospel of John and 1 Corinthians 13 especially? [I would also be open to considering any suggestions you may posit as well.] Until the next post...[I do not know how many days it shall be...]

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1

And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 1 Corinthians 13:2

And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 1 Corinthians 13:3

Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 1 Corinthians 13:4

Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 1 Corinthians 13:5

Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 1 Corinthians 13:6

Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 1 Corinthians 13:7

Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away. 1 Corinthians 13:8

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 1 Corinthians 13:9

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 1 Corinthians 13:10

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 1 Corinthians 13:11

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Corinthians 13:12

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity. 1 Corinthians 13:13

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29

And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! John 1:36

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. John 12:32

Pythons said:

...Feel free to jump in with some specifics ...

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Let us look together at the scriptures on the subject of life/death, in what happens to those who have died, Old and New Testaments, resurrections, and the teaching of Christ and the Apostles and Disciples. By looking at this particular subject we can more fully understand several other subjects which are related.

What did Jesus, the author of Life, teach about this subject of death [2 examples]?

[Little Girl]

While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live. Matthew 9:18

He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. Matthew 9:24

But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose. Matthew 9:25

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While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's [house certain] which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further? Mark 5:35

And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. Mark 5:39

And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying. Mark 5:40

And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. Mark 5:41

*******

While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's [house], saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master. Luke 8:49

And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. Luke 8:52

And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. Luke 8:53

And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. Luke 8:54

Do we believe Jesus, or shall we also laugh Him to scorn for saying such?

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[Lazarus]

These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. John 11:11

Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. John 11:13

Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. John 11:14

Then when Jesus came, he found that he had [lain] in the grave four days already. John 11:17

Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. John 11:21

Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. John 11:23

Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 11:24

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. John 11:32

And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died? John 11:37

Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it. John 11:38

Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been [dead] four days. John 11:39

Then they took away the stone [from the place] where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up [his] eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. John 11:41

And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. John 11:43

And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. John 11:44

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What did Peter teach on this subject? Let us go to a powerful lesson in Acts 2:

The Apostle Simon 'Peter' Barjona, filled with the Holy Spirit, raises his voice and begins speaking, teaching and orating. He is not alone in this, for not only is this message signified and approved by the Holy Spirit Himself, he is also surrounded by the other 11 Apostles of Christ Jesus and the remaining Disciples that were with them. The Apostle Simon 'Peter' Barjona then before the crowd in Jerusalem, in a teaching and expounding manner, directly quotes from both the Prophets Joel and King David, as well as from the Psalms.

Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Acts 2:29

For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Acts 2:34

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 2 Peter 3:4

Good King David, a man after God's own heart, though he had his downfall, is Dead … Buried … not in Heaven … and even moreso his Tomb was still with them all. So says the Apostle Simon 'Peter' Barjona himself by the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures. Ought we then not to believe him? If not, how about the scriptures which agreed with him and others such as Paul and/or Jesus?

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 2:42

Shall we not want to continue stedfastly in the Apostle's doctrine and fellowship on this subject? What begins to happen if we do not?

What does Luke [physician/historian] teach and record about the Apostle and Martyr Stephen?

And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7:60

What does Paul teach on David, and others who have died previously?

For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: Acts 13:36

[Paul Agrees with Peter in Acts 2, which agrees with the OT scripture]

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:6

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1 Thessalonians 4:13

What did John the Apostle teach by the Holy Spirit in Revelation?

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Revelation 14:13

What did Daniel the Prophet teach?

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

What did Job teach?

There the wicked cease [from] troubling; and there the weary be at rest. Job 3:17

[There] the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor. Job 3:18

The small and great are there; and the servant [is] free from his master. Job 3:19

The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no [more]: thine eyes [are] upon me, and I [am] not. Job 7:8

[As] the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no [more]. Job 7:9

He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more. Job 7:10

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12

O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! Job 14:13

If a man die, shall he live [again]? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Job 14:14

His sons come to honour, and he knoweth [it] not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth [it] not of them. Job 14:21

If I wait, the grave [is] mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness. Job 17:13

They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when [our] rest together [is] in the dust. Job 17:16

One dieth in his full strength, being wholly at ease and quiet. Job 21:23

And another dieth in the bitterness of his soul, and never eateth with pleasure. Job 21:25

They shall lie down alike in the dust, and the worms shall cover them. Job 21:26

Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb. Job 21:32

What did Solomon teach?

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5

Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun. Ecclesiastes 9:6

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecclesiastes 9:10

What did God and other scripture teach?

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Genesis 2:17

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:19 [see also Genesis 3:22-24]

Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Psalms 104:29

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

What does the Old Testament teach?

So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David. 1 Kings 2:10

"slept with his fathers" [1 Kings 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20]

Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. Psalms 88:5

Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. Psalms 88:6

Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise [and] praise thee? Selah. Psalms 88:10

Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? [or] thy faithfulness in destruction? Psalms 88:11

Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? Psalms 88:12

Consider [and] hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the [sleep of] death; Psalms 13:3

The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115:17

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4

What does the serpent teach?

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Genesis 3:4

Who only hath "immortality"?

That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Timothy 6:14

Which in his times he shall shew, [who is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:15

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:16

Is man "immortal" in any way, or rather "mortal"?

Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker? Job 4:17

Please consider the texts and please take some time to think about the saying you hear every "Ash Wednesday" Mr. Pythons and really consider the words,“Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return.” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Ash Wednesday] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01775b.htm

We may look at more texts to fully consider this subject so that we have the full sense of the teaching of God out of His Word.

Deut 5:29 said:

This subject is way big for any one thread.
After all Jesus said in Mat. 4:4, quoting Deut. 8:3, that we must live by EVERY word of God.
That covers a lot of stuff.

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This thread's purpose is to discover the specific doctrines that Jesus taught and that the Apostles and Disciples also taught, and are consistently presented throughout scripture, in both the Old and New Testaments, and followed and believed.

As of this moment, a single very specifc doctrine [on the "Sleep of Death"] is presented before us, and so should we then not, as is written, "not live by bread alone, but by every word of God"?, for if we do not believe His word on this subject then we are susceptible to the deceptions of Satan and all his spiritualisms:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7564185-3/#post57664022