More Bible contradictions

Kutte said:

1611AV wrote:

What contradiction do you find?
__________________

Is it not obvious to an open, uncluttered mind, that we find a clear difference between Genesis 1:26-27 and Genesis 2:15-17?

Genesis 1:27 declares: "So God made man like his Maker. Like God did God make man;
Man and maid did he make them."

Genesis 2:16-17 declares: "You may eat any fruit in the garden except fruit from the Tree of Knowledge - for its fruit will open your eyes to make you aware of right and wrong, good and bad."

With this command Adam and Eve no longer represented their maker as pointed out
in Genesis 1:27, "Like God did God make man."

Also, why should man remain ignorant of right and wrong, good and bad? At best, it represents an ultimate form of censorship practiced by dictators of all shades throughout man's history.

Kutte

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With this command Adam and Eve no longer represented their maker as pointed out

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Not sure what translation u r using . . . but the text in Hebrew is "image and likeness" for how man is LIKE God . . . NOT KNOWLEDGE. So the command does not contradict anything as the words do not connote the creation within man as being given the same knowledge as God.

Also, why should man remain ignorant of right and wrong, good and bad? At best, it represents an ultimate form of censorship practiced by dictators of all shades throughout man's history.

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Your dichotomy is false. Man did know BOTH GOOD AND RIGHT . . . it is bad and evil that man did NOT know of. Tho, that the good and right that they knew was, in actuality GOOD AND RIGHT, they did not know as they had nothing from which to measure good as good or right as right. It simply was what was.

I must also point out to you that the beginning must also be understood by the end as far as purpose goes. Redemption and salvation were understood within the command as God is sovereign. So it is not censorship, it is, in the long run, the path to freedom for individuals who have the power to choose actualized in the New Heavens and the New Earth as still having the power to choose yet without the reality of compromise. It is the path to true Freedom.

Kutte said:

1611AV wrote:

"right and wrong"? "good and bad"? Are you mistaking Santa Clause for God?

Where do you get that nonsense from"?

Response:

This, what you call "nonsense" is a direct quotation taken from my Bible, THE WAY edition. The verses I quoted begin with "The Lord placed the man in the Garden of Eden..."

Of course, we could debate which Bible represents accuratly the word of God, which in your opinion is the King James edition. But since you make your claim with red colored letters I do not expect from you to deviate from your views.

God bless, Kutte

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is a direct quotation taken from my Bible, THE WAY edition.

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"The Way" is a paraphrase . . . u should probably seek to use a more literal rendition based on the MT or something from the DSS's.

Ur citation is the gist of the text . . . but it is not close to what was really written. To debate the finer points of the text one should have a better translation, tho for devotion a paraphrase may be OK in conjunction with a better translation.

Kutte said:

Very, very interesting to read the various comments regarding the plight of Adam and Eve and the justification for them having sinned.

Let me just say that a neutral observer, perhaps an alien from outer space, will find two creation stories in Genesis.

> First, God created man in his image, according to his likeness, and told them to get off their behinds, start working and subdue the planet, to rule over animals and vegetation.
Needless to say that this task can not be accomplished without sweat, troubles and pain by simply waving some sort of magic wand. It also requires some basic awareness of good and bad.

> 2nd, God created man in a paradise setting called Eden, lacking any challenges whatsoever, with nothing much to do, since everything was allready perfect, and told them to remain ignorant, not to gain any knowledge of good and bad.

A neutral alien from outer space may ask him/herself why God wanted Adam and Eve
not to become aware of his love and goodness toward humans?

Kutte

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Way oversimplified and hugely errant.

I will respond with why when I can . . . thnx for patience

zeke37 said:

Gen1 and Gen2 are not speaking of the same individual man or same mankind..article missing in Gen1's adam (mankind)
not the same planting......

adam is a later planting...no contradiction
adam is not the first created person. (article present in Gen2's Adam)
he is formed from the dust after the 7th day of rest,
not before it.

there are no contradictions in the complete Word of God
if you (who ever you are) think that there is, then it is you (or the translation you are reading) that is incorrect,

man's honest mistakes/copyest errors/or willfull works of Satan and his scribes to attempt to thwart the perfect Word of God

these are things we can overcome with the proper study material and prayer.

that's what the Massorahs are for.

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Wow zeke . . . seems the only thing we agree on is "no pre trib rapture"


This is so far from orthodoxy . . .

Fireinfolding said:

Your welcome sis

A wholesome tongue is a tree of life (Prov 15:4) and as He is so also are we "in this world" Prov 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life


Ever count the fruits of the Spirit?

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Honestly, I do not do the number thing either, again, perhaps my bad. The thing is I love math, so I know that is not why I haven't gone that route.

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

I only count 8 there. Using self-control could be considered using an wholesome tongue. I know for sure it takes self-control until it becomes a natural reaction to abstain from the use of un-wholesome words.

Ezekiel 47:12 Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing."

Another thing I've not fully understood is the use of the leaves for healing, I think of aloevera everytime, but I have not been able to connect it fully spiritually. Food I can comprehend as GOD's word which enriches/nurishes our being. As we are corrected and learn to walk in HIS ways we are healed from our past transgressions, this I know for sure. Only GOD can heal and all things stem from HIS BEING. The use of a vine (Christ) and tree intermittently confuses me, yet they both do have leaves. The pruning done by GOD is where the bad leaves are cut off to make room for the new good shoots. These both having leaves could be a connection? Thoughts to ponder for sure.

The number 12 is interesting, 12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles of Christ, 24 elders pops to mind. 12 foundations (apostles), 12 gates (tribes of isreal). Just listing biblical fact, not trying to make any connections at this point. Not that the pondering of the facts does not lead me to a natural conclusion.

Anyway perhaps you can help me to find 12 fruits of the spirit? The fact that Ezekiel didn't say there were 12 doesn't mean there wasn't, but I do find his account more revealing than John's. I do not believe there is a contradiction there, it could just be the difference of one writer writing what is of importance to them, and the number 12 may not have been that important to Ezekiel? I don't know, I just somehow have a problem leaning on numbers for understanding and interpretations, therefore I lean more on the Spirit for truth.

NatalieJan777 said:

Honestly, I do not do the number thing either, again, perhaps my bad. The thing is I love math, so I know that is not why I haven't gone that route.

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

I only count 8 there. Using self-control could be considered using an wholesome tongue. I know for sure it takes self-control until it becomes a natural reaction to abstain from the use of un-wholesome words.

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Jesus words are wholesome words (we abide in) as we abide in Him (the vine) and we the branches we bear His fruits.

I believe elsewhere if you look it says....

Prov 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life .

Then here....

Phil 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

In this His Father was glorified that ye bear much fruit

12 altogether with these two verses combined

Gal 5:29 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Ephes 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)

I see one listed twice (differently) which is "goodness" verses "all goodness" (theres 12 there)

Have you checked that the word branches in Hebrew also can mean leaves as well in certain places?

Ezekiel 47:12

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Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing."



Another thing I've not fully understood is the use of the leaves for healing, I think of aloevera everytime, but I have not been able to connect it fully spiritually.

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Im not certain yet either except where "branches" (ye are) are also shown as leaves, it talks about the balm of Gilead (Is there "no physician")? Theres more then a few


Psalm 67:2 That thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving health among all nations.

Prov 12:18 There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.

Jerm 33:6 Behold, I will bring it health and cure, and I will cure them, and will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.

Food I can comprehend as GOD's word which enriches/nurishes our being. As we are corrected and learn to walk in HIS ways we are healed from our past transgressions, this I know for sure. Only GOD can heal and all things stem from HIS BEING.

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Without abiding in Him (The vine) the branches can do nothing (Amen)

[/quote] The use of a vine (Christ) and tree intermittently confuses me, yet they both do have leaves. The pruning done by GOD is where the bad leaves are cut off to make room for the new good shoots. These both having leaves could be a connection? Thoughts to ponder for sure.[/quote]

Even as the olive tree shows branches "being grafted in". Ever see a branch grafter into a tree? Its so kool

The number 12 is interesting, 12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles of Christ, 24 elders pops to mind. 12 foundations (apostles), 12 gates (tribes of isreal). Just listing biblical fact, not trying to make any connections at this point. Not that the pondering of the facts does not lead me to a natural conclusion.

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Yes the numbers everwhere can make me dizzy, because I unlike you hated math so when it says, "Let him that hath wisdom COUNT" I feel SO DOOMED God help me really.

Anyway perhaps you can help me to find 12 fruits of the spirit?

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I hope I did that above though you could discount "all goodness" in the place of goodness and add in the self control to make it 12 "manners" of fruit. Unless you go with the "firstfruit" being Christ (as our fruit comes from him) yet he is the Vine (as well)

The fact that Ezekiel didn't say there were 12 doesn't mean there wasn't, but I do find his account more revealing than John's. I do not believe there is a contradiction there, it could just be the difference of one writer writing what is of importance to them, and the number 12 may not have been that important to Ezekiel? I don't know, I just somehow have a problem leaning on numbers for understanding and interpretations, therefore I lean more on the Spirit for truth.

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You have a great approach to scripture, it must be written elsewhere and pursue it by faith.

Our conversation is linked to salvation ever notice that?

Psalm 50:23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

Which is interesting where He says their conversation is located

Phil 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ

Mathetes,

Regarding your comment: Your dichotomy is false. Man did know BOTH GOOD AND RIGHT . . . it is bad and evil that man did NOT know of.

Response:
This allegation is unacceptable.
One does not recognize either good or bad if it can not be compared to the other, therefore, an awarenes of good and bad is necessary to appreciate either one.

I do not think it matters much which particular Bible one uses to find the commandment for Adam and Eve not gain any awareness, knowledge of qualities such as good and bad. All of them refer to either "good and bad" or "good and evil'.
If my particular edition is adding "right and wrong", then this can be seen as a detailed description of good and bad. (good = right, bad = wrong)

Kutte

Unless you look at it as God is good and obedience to Him is regarded as the same. They just had their "first experience" of evil (in departing from Him).

Like, wow, look we are naked (why had we never noticed that before?) and why do we feel the need to "cover" what we already were but knew it not?

Jerm 2:19 Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

Prov 14:27 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

Prov 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

Fireinfolding said:

I hope I did that above though you could discount "all goodness" in the place of goodness and add in the self control to make it 12 "manners" of fruit. Unless you go with the "firstfruit" being Christ (as our fruit comes from him) yet he is the Vine (as well)

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Not quiet, but I appreciate the time you took to respond to my questions. Not that I don't want to believe what you say, it is that I can't believe what you tell me until HE reveals the same truth to me. I have much food for thought and study, thank you again for sharing.

Anyway, my original question wasn't about the number of the fruits of the Spirit. It was about Jesus being the tree of life and the fact that one tree was on both sides of the river, and I am confused in that scripture of revelation how the Lamb can be on the throne (where the water of life comes) and be the tree at the same time. In the scripture it is just not a logical depiction for mans understanding, in my opinion of course, where I am right now spiritually, this doesn't mean that GOD cannot make that clearer to me at some point down the line.

I do not believe there are contridictions in scripture, I believe that our understanding is somehow incomplete at the time we notice a contridiction. If we do find a contridiction, if anything I think it would lead us not to say the WORD is contridicting, but should lead us to HIM to find out why it is contridicting and herein is where we have our spiritual growth, HIM leading and not us.

GOD BLESS!

Kutte said:

Mathetes,

Regarding your comment: Your dichotomy is false. Man did know BOTH GOOD AND RIGHT . . . it is bad and evil that man did NOT know of.

Response:
This allegation is unacceptable.
One does not recognize either good or bad if it can not be compared to the other, therefore, an awarenes of good and bad is necessary to appreciate either one.

I do not think it matters much which particular Bible one uses to find the commandment for Adam and Eve not gain any awareness, knowledge of qualities such as good and bad. All of them refer to either "good and bad" or "good and evil'.
If my particular edition is adding "right and wrong", then this can be seen as a detailed description of good and bad. (good = right, bad = wrong)

Kutte

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This allegation is unacceptable.
One does not recognize either good or bad if it can not be compared to the other, therefore, an awarenes of good and bad is necessary to appreciate either one.

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Actually the perception of good and right has no bearing upon the phiosophical TRUTH of what IS good and right. So, while I agree with you that FOR MAN TO UNDERSTAND what good and right IS, he needs to see these in the light of evil and wrong in order to contrast them, this does not mean that good and right are not still good and right because of his lack of understaning. Philosophically, good and right are both good and right regardless of perception. So tho man does not understand them as both good and right, they ARE STILL BOTH GOOD AND RIGHT . . . and his experience is in these aspects, tho he cannot define them as such . . . so my assertion is logically, epistemologically and philosophically tenable and acceptable.

I do not think it matters much which particular Bible one uses to find the commandment for Adam and Eve not gain any awareness, knowledge of qualities such as good and bad. All of them refer to either "good and bad" or "good and evil'.

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No, translation matters in YOUR contention about being made like God. It says, in Hebrew, image (tseh'lem) and likeness (de'muth) of which neither contradict the later statement of becoming LIKE (ha'yah ech'ad) God. That is the point. The context of becoming like God in Chpt 3 has to do with knowledge, and the chpt 1 pericope does not . . . hence, due to linguisitcs and context, your apparent contradiction is not a contradiction at all. Easy enough.

If my particular edition is adding "right and wrong", then this can be seen as a detailed description of good and bad. (good = right, bad = wrong)

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It really matters not the content of the knowledge, as the passage does not establish the contradiction that you are thinking that you see anyhow . . . so the point is moot.

pax

MTK

Very interesting discussions in this thread. Gives me lots to think and pray about.

NatalieJan777 said:

Not quiet, but I appreciate the time you took to respond to my questions. Not that I don't want to believe what you say, it is that I can't believe what you tell me until HE reveals the same truth to me. I have much food for thought and study, thank you again for sharing.

Anyway, my original question wasn't about the number of the fruits of the Spirit. It was about Jesus being the tree of life and the fact that one tree was on both sides of the river, and I am confused in that scripture of revelation how the Lamb can be on the throne (where the water of life comes) and be the tree at the same time. In the scripture it is just not a logical depiction for mans understanding, in my opinion of course, where I am right now spiritually, this doesn't mean that GOD cannot make that clearer to me at some point down the line.

I do not believe there are contridictions in scripture, I believe that our understanding is somehow incomplete at the time we notice a contridiction. If we do find a contridiction, if anything I think it would lead us not to say the WORD is contridicting, but should lead us to HIM to find out why it is contridicting and herein is where we have our spiritual growth, HIM leading and not us.

GOD BLESS!

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God bless you too, He will reveal it, afterall how can Christ be on the throne and be formed in us? Sorta like being in two places at the same time right? Just as God was in heaven and God was in Jesus Christ recconciling the world to Himself.

Its the same with the Jasper stone, he that SAT was to look upon as that stone. Where is HE that SAT? Yet Her light was likened to that SAME STONE )I am THE LIGHT and YE ARE THE LIGHT as that is the precious stone which God LAID IN SION = CITY on a HILL/ MOUNT= YE ARE. YET...is also THE FIRST foundation stone (The Jasper again) (n revelation right? We are BUILT upon a foundation of APOSTLES (Christ is shown AS an Apostle (The Cheif corner stone). The building of the wall of it (the city) is of Jasper (again).

So He is beneathe her (upholding) the glory of God in the midst of her (the city= ye are) and that which surrounds her and being the head of her (His body) He is also HE that SAT (which is above her) All of the same stone and all at the same time.

So where is He?

Psalm 11:4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Psalm 48:9 We have thought of thy lovingkindness, O God, in the midst of thy temple.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Psalm 36:4-5 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High. God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.

He is the fountain of living waters

Jerm 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Its like everything begins to melt together capturing (at least in part till we see clearly) what can actually boggle our minds (as we say, well how can that be? he is here, and over there, and up there but here too...?) Maybe its more of a revelation of Him which surpasses knowledge because knowledge is listed as that which is in part anyway (and thats ALL knowledge if we are lucky enough to have that) but its still in part.

I just add pieces where I see them God teaches us, He's the best thats for sure. Besides its Him who gives us understanding, I love it when He makes sense of something I cannot make sense of, thats kool when He does that.

Mathetes,

Thanks for your elaborate reply.
When delving into the philosophical 'truths' of what is good and right, things tend to become a bit murky. In this way qualities perceived as bad can actually be good.
For instance, a bad forest fire can be a 'good' thing, because it gets rid of dead and dry underbrush and promotes new growth.

Much of what we consider to be 'bad' can be translated into something good. For this reason, it is the lion in Africa's wilderness who promotes gracious, alert, and fast creatures such as gazelles.
Without a lion, gazelles may have developed into lame ducks. At the same time, lions never hunted gazelles into extinction.

What we as human beings face is a lion spirit which acts as an instigator, promoting thinking, analyzing, and creativity after coming to a sensible conclusion. Many people tend to look at this lion spirit as the devil, which, from a philosophical stand-point can also be considered a "good" thing.

My best, Kutte

God is all around all of HIS creation, this I cannot deny. I too know that HE is the living water.

Acts 17:26 From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Here Jesus says that the Kingdom of God will not come by careful observation (Of course it will not, because HIS final dwelling place with man is not complete), yet, he points to HIS return as a careful observation (which I believe that it will be a physical return of HIM in HIS uncorruptible flesh observed by all GOD's creation).

Luke 17:20-25 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation."

It appears that the more we discuss the more confused I am becoming in regards to the New Heaven and New Earth. This is not a bad thing and in most cases brings new light. I've found that my confusion is a shaking of what I've come to believe so that I am able to understand what it is HE want's me to understand more clearly. What I am experiencing right now, tells me that more spiritual insight is close at hand for me personally. And I Thank You! For sharing.

Ezekiel 37:23-28 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God. "'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.'"

I am overwhelmed with the feeling of a breakthrough in my spiritual understanding coming soon and I must continue the study I started months ago in the book of Ezekiel. I had a red light for so long and it is now a green light. I am not exactly sure of what you wrote that triggered this, even after re-reading what you wrote, I am still unsure, but I know that HIS Spirit in me just triggered the green light. I probably sound crazy to all reading this right now, but it is okay I am not ashamed. Thank You! And I praise HIM for you and what you've written that has triggered my spirit to go take a look again into the Kingdom of GOD (New Earth/Heavens) depicted in the last chapters of Ezekiel.

GOD BLESS!

Nat i understand completely, forgive me if I made you more confused by any of my postings. He does the same thing to me, overturns the way I have built something linking things incorrectly. Not nessesarily wrong as His words are truth but it was HOW I built upon what He is saying. So I build a thing and let the scripture "correct me". Sometimes what I do is run certain things, for instance the Jasper stone (compare it everywhere) notice its "placement" where it changes its placement what is it "around" and is there mention by the apostles that would further clarify etc. The study "the city" Jesus says YE ARE a city. Then theres the city of the living God "the new Jerusalem" which COMETH DOWN out of heaven right? And your like, will we SEE that? WE REASON with it right? I get that we ALL do it seeing things spiritually is not something we can do (just giving the scriptures a "glance" but the way the Holy Spirit teaches us (as I can see in your posts you do the same) is by "by comparing spiritual things WITH spiritual" its RIGHTLY DIVIDING the word of truth right? In regards to the New Jerusalem HE WRITES the NAME of the CITY of MY GOD upon one. Makes sense (as a freind of mine blessed my heart to catch this). As Mount Sion IS the heavenly city (a City on a hill/ MOUNT).

Jesus said, IN my Fathers HOUSE (we are HIS HOUSE we are the HOUSEHOLD OF GOD) are MANY MANSIONS... HOLD... Split that WORD...

MANSIONS = MAN SIONS= Even MOUNT SION (The City of God= YE ARE A CITY) on A MOUNT, the MOUNT of GOD, YE are written upon (The name of MY GOD and NAME OF THE CITY of MY GOD) Which IS the NEW Jerusalem right? Having HIS FATHERS NAME upon their FOREHEADS. This speaks to their virginity (these are virgins) which speaks to their MINDS as Paul wanted to present THEM as a CHASTE VIRGIN unto ONE HUSBAND To Christ,(he feared THEIR MINDS would be corrupted from the simplicity thats In Christ

He that HATH the Son HATH THE FATHER they HAVE His Fathers name on their foreheads.

These things are so kool after their similititudes He adresses them fearing AS EVE (The female similitude of the mystery of the church) was deceived who heard another (the serpent in this case) SHE SAW and TOOK. Paul is speaking in this context of receiving another gospel (another doctrine). In the case of revelation (as it is in Genesis) its the similitude after "the sons of God" (which did not defile themselves with women) returning back to Genesis (as these also represent the Church in the male form of the similitude) THEY TOO (as EVE) SAW and TOOK (as it pertains to the "daughters of men").

God adresses preferring STRANGERS over your OWN HUSBAND theres STRANGE DOCTRINES and STRANGE WOMEN Theres THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN (the marrying or joining oneself with (receiving INTO your house another doctrine) as there are THE DOCTRINES OF MEN etc. We must only abide in the Doctrine of Christ (Which is the Doctrine of God) as Jesus said, "My doctrine is NOT MINE but HIS that sent ME" thats why He that does not abide in the doctrine of Christ hath NOT GOD whereas they which are virgins (which pertains to their minds not corrupted) even as Paul speaks of desiring to present them as chaste virgins speaks to the same (the mind). Its after the doctrine (not another, or us not preferring strangers to our own husband, or (after the similitude of men) in not defiling themselves with women/ daughters of men/ doctrines of men).

The Church (As Eve/ The Woman made up of both male and female in Christ) Receiving NOT ANOTHER (as it pertains to the doctine) after the similitude of "an husband" and "The Sons of God" in relation to the daughters of men, or doctrines of men (not defiling themselves with women).

The defiling is in "the profession" because SOME PROFESSING is wherein they ERR as its what comes OUT of a man mouth is that which DEFILES a man. Wherein in THEIR MOUTH is NO GUILE they are without fault (before the throne). You can really catch how these things are in sync with one another throughout depending on the similitude used to express them and its always brought back to Christ and our cleaving unto Him.

The more you see the more you catch in accord with the OT and the NT and in accord with what Jesus said in ways I never could see before.

He is continually teaching us and theres no better place to abide then in Him. He can make all things clear to us, definitely cling to Him as you are doing, you cannot go wrong in that sis.

Fireinfolding said:

The more you see the more you catch in accord with the OT and the NT and in accord with what Jesus said in ways I never could see before.

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I will be honest, I comprehended very little in your last post, I am sure it all has meaning, the fact that I didn't comprehend it doesn't make any of it invalid. But I have a question for you and it is in reference to this you said that I qouted above. In relation to what scripture I am going to share below:

Revelation 11:1-3 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."

See what I've bolded? Has it ever entered your mind or thoughts that the Old Testament and the New Testament are these two witnesses? I ask partly to validate my sanity for thinking this is the meaning. But the Spirit is the one who has lead me to my thoughts on this, I did not go there on my own. I've felt for a while now that these two witnesses are the Old and New testaments of The Holy Scriptures. Again I don't get into the number of days or months or the size of God's temple, just the basic's on the two witnesses. Clothed in sackcloth indicates to me mourning for the non acceptance of GOD and HIS Ways. As hard as I try I can't get away from my thinking this is what the two witnesses are.

NatalieJan777 said:

I will be honest, I comprehended very little in your last post, I am sure it all has meaning, the fact that I didn't comprehend it doesn't make any of it invalid. But I have a question for you and it is in reference to this you said that I qouted above. In relation to what scripture I am going to share below:

Revelation 11:1-3 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."

See what I've bolded? Has it ever entered your mind or thoughts that the Old Testament and the New Testament are these two witnesses? I ask partly to validate my sanity for thinking this is the meaning. But the Spirit is the one who has lead me to my thoughts on this, I did not go there on my own. I've felt for a while now that these two witnesses are the Old and New testaments of The Holy Scriptures. Again I don't get into the number of days or months or the size of God's temple, just the basic's on the two witnesses. Clothed in sackcloth indicates to me mourning for the non acceptance of GOD and HIS Ways. As hard as I try I can't get away from my thinking this is what the two witnesses are.

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He is been witnessed by the law and the prophets, thats two for sure. Who appeared with Jesus speaking of His decease but Moses and Elijah.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets

Theres two witness as they testified of Christ

Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Mark 9:5-6 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

Mark 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Mark 9:8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.


Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

Which agrees with what God said as Moses said "Hear ye Him"

Duet 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

So this makes sense

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets

It was Christ who is manifested, the law and the prophets prophesied until John but testified of Him. Moses and Elijah appear with Him (Peter seeing them as separate) and then suddenly they vanish as if showing they are fulfilled in Him followed by a "Hear ye HIM" by The Father (To which Moses Agrees)

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Okay, I was hoping for a simple yes or no, but I take it that it is a no. I know many believe that these two witnesses are Moses and Elijah. Christ Jesus to me is part of both old and new, for HE was before it all.

Revelation 22:12-18 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

John 8:17-18 "In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

For now, I shall just remain thinking that I am insane =) but I cannot let go of what the Spirit has shown me, until and unless I am shown different.

NatalieJan777 said:

Okay, I was hoping for a simple yes or no, but I take it that it is a no. I know many believe that these two witnesses are Moses and Elijah. Christ Jesus to me is part of both old and new, for HE was before it all.

Revelation 22:12-18 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

John 8:17-18 "In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

For now, I shall just remain thinking that I am insane =) but I cannot let go of what the Spirit has shown me, until and unless I am shown different.

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Im not one out to convince anyone of anything, or out to say hear ye me, if you show two witnesses and the possibility of these being the law (Moses) and the Prophets figured in Elijah its sorta up to you in the way you figure it, but saying yes or no without showing how I might arrive at it would basically not help anyone else. If I share I hope to help the hearer of the conversation (besides you) and often the way you answer on forums like this invites an argument (and I try to not go that way)


Yes if they speak not to the law or to the testimony, they have no light as the law is a light as the more sure word is which is the spirit of prophecy... the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Even Paul says, "Do I say these things AS A MAN or saith not THE LAW ALSO"? Because cursed is the man who trusteth IN MAN. So Paul would say, I speak AS A MAN (When he did speak as one)

Those who desired to be under the law he would say do you NOT HEAR THE LAW?

Paul speaks of this those who are under the law (that hear the law) and those led by the Spirit (which are not under the law) but hear what the Spirit is saying.

Even the Son and the Father are as witnesses. Even heaven and earth are as witnesses just as the law and the prophets are witnesses.

So it just depends how you are working it

I don't believe that the bible has any contradictions, what I do believe is that some are not understanding it properly which is why some may believe that it is full of contradictions.