That Boat Don't Float!!

AV1611VET said:

I wasn't aware the Ark was a ship.

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I have no response to that.

dingdong said:

No they haven't but they have said that none of that stuff would be needed because god was looking after it,

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No, He wasn't.

He was looking after the Ark -- not a ship.

I can understand why you didn't catch that, in view of:

dingdong said:

they just move from illusion to illusion, when they need for god to step in he does,

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Calling it an "illusion" just sets up a mental block that comes back on you and confuses you to the point that you cannot even catch a rookie mistake.

That's why I point this out -- you guys confuse yourselves with your word choices -- we don't.

As I have said many times before, if I were to sponsor an expedition to find the Loch Ness Monster, and I happened to overhear someone calling her a "myth" -- I would demand that person be removed from the team.

Their bias could possibly keep them from finding a key piece of evidence.

dingdong said:

what a god!! what stupidity!!

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Wrong conclusion -- based on faulty word choice.

LightHorseman said:

Ah, right, the good ol "God magically suspended the laws of physics enough that a 500 foot wooden boat was possible, and enough that the rain could cover the Earth and then go away again, but not enough that the animals and some humans could survive without a boat" argument.

I suspected as much. Glad I didn't bother reading the whole thread then.

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WOW -- an argument is only as strong as the bias it contains, isn't it?

(I just made that up -- )

AV1611VET said:

WOW -- an argument is only as strong as the bias it contains, isn't it?

(I just made that up -- )

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From the guy trying to set himself up for a semantic argument to claim that a large, ocean going, hollow, wooden artefact, built in such a way as to maximise cargo and passenger capacity is not a "ship", I'm not sure whether to take this as a compliment or what.

LightHorseman said:

From the guy trying to set himself up for a semantic argument to claim that a large, ocean going, hollow, wooden artefact, built in such a way as to maximise cargo and passenger capacity is not a "ship", I'm not sure whether to take this as a compliment or what.

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Are you saying the Ark had a rudder? steering mechanism? sails? propeller?

dingdong said:

Didn't need any of them, a god was guiding it's every move just to make the old story go smoothly

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This is what happens when you take the Bible allegorically, isn't it?

Suddenly, a wooden containment vessel becomes a ship, then confusion sets in and demands to know how that ship can stay afloat and navigate in the rough seas, and so God is invoked to explain the gaps, when God could have been invoked earlier to explain why it only need be a wooden containment vessel --

SkyWriting said:

Yes. Just as any engineer creates solutions, any artist creates...well..."art", and any two people create babies, the source is evident in the qualities of the created.

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So you claim there is evidence in creation, some others claim there is no evidence in creation. Interesting...

We live in a 3 dimensional universe.

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A few more dimensions than that.

That seems to be infinite.

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"Seems to be"=/= "is"

Is not moving to self destruct.

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Not anytime soon anyway.

Has infinite complexity.

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There is no such thing as "infinite complexity". Could you define what "infinite complexity" is?

Is amazingly stable and capable.

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Except for all of those earthquakes, volcanoes, asteroids, supernovae, and other disasterous geological and cosmological events.

I'm not saying we have ALL the attributes of God.
Just as the image in a mirror is very very close to the real thing...yet is not the real thing.
It's an image of the original.

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So are chimpanzees created in 99% of God's image?

If the source knew right from wrong, we would know right from wrong.

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God didn't created us knowing right from wrong, remember?

AV1611VET said:

This is what happens when you take the Bible allegorically, isn't it?

Suddenly, a wooden containment vessel becomes a ship, then confusion sets in and demands to know how that ship can stay afloat and navigate in the rough seas, and so God is invoked to explain the gaps, when God could have been invoked earlier to explain why it only need be a wooden containment vessel --

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You might notice that the problems with the Ark have nothing to do with its (nonexistent) rudder, sails, propulsion or whatever it needs to be a "ship" in your terms.

Call it as you like it, a wooden construction of the measurements given would have these structural problems, rudder or not.

Freodin said:

Call it as you like it, a wooden construction of the measurements given would have these structural problems, rudder or not.

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That's right -- so why refer to it as a ship?

Are you familiar with the Telephone Game?

If it is a ship, then Noah and family are relegated to the status of crew members -- not passengers.

AV1611VET said:

That's right -- so why refer to it as a ship?

Are you familiar with the Telephone Game?

If it is a ship, then Noah and family are relegated to the status of crew members -- not passengers.

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Because constructions above a certain size meant to transport passengers and freight on major bodies of water are usually referred to as "ship".

Freodin said:

Because constructions above a certain size meant to transport passengers and freight on major bodies of water are usually referred to as "ship".

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I wasn't aware the Ark was for transportation.

AV1611VET said:

I wasn't aware the Ark was for transportation.

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So you think the Ark didn´t move at all?

Freodin said:

So you think the Ark didn´t move at all?

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Yes, it moved -- from New Jersey to Ararat; but not as a ship.

AV1611VET said:

I wasn't aware the Ark was for transportation.

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You have problems with the word transport too!

The Ark was designed to move, at the very least to rise up with the waves, and be carried along on the surface. It contained a cargo; of animals.

Freodin said:

Because constructions above a certain size meant to transport passengers and freight on major bodies of water are usually referred to as "ship".

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I believe the nautical convention is to call a sea-going vessel a boat, and an ocean-going one a ship.

Therefore, if the flood was localised, then the Ark can be safely regarded as a boat, and if it is worldwide, it is appropriate to use the term ship.

I do hope that helps everyone. And I expect Creationists to immediately leap upon the term 'ship' and use it consistently from now on.

Montalban said:

You have problems with the word transport too!

The Ark was designed to move, at the very least to rise up with the waves, and be carried along on the surface. It contained a cargo; of animals.

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All so you guys can call it a "ship"?

Suit yourselves -- you're just preventing yourselves from understanding, not me.

Catherineanne said:

I do hope that helps everyone. And I expect Creationists to immediately leap upon the term 'ship' and use it consistently from now on.

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Uh-huh.

That'll be the day I start believing the Bible is allegory.

Montalban said:

You have problems with the word transport too!

The Ark was designed to move, at the very least to rise up with the waves, and be carried along on the surface. It contained a cargo; of animals.

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This is correct.

Transport is a compound word, composed of the following two Latin elements: trans preposition denoting across and portare, verb to carry. Together, therefore, these compounds form a word which denotes 'to carry across'.

Given that the Ark did indeed carry the animals across the surface of the deep, it did indeed transport them, whether or not they ended up exactly where they started.

dingdong said:

They didn't know a god existed until some one told them, they are only taking some ones word for it,
they have no evidence other than 'isn't the world wonderful and it's so ordered that it must be made by some one'.

It's childrens logic accepted by supposed adults, or are they just adults trying to cling on to their childhood fantasies?

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Adam walked with GOD. HE certainly knew GOD from the beginning. And the reality is that Adam died while Noah was alive. Noah built the ark and survived the FLOOD and so he told his grandchildren the wonderful way GOD protected his family...

Catherineanne said:

I believe the nautical convention is to call a sea-going vessel a boat, and an ocean-going one a ship.

Therefore, if the flood was localised, then the Ark can be safely regarded as a boat, and if it is worldwide, it is appropriate to use the term ship.

I do hope that helps everyone. And I expect Creationists to immediately leap upon the term 'ship' and use it consistently from now on.

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There is no nautical convention, just a "rule of thumb", which is very generally based on size: "A ship can carry a boat, but a boat can´t carry a ship". Exceptions verify the rule.