Another thread about segregation of men and women

If you are worried about having a Christain witness... then don't go.
If you are not worried about having a Christian witness... then go.
Seriously... in this day and age. Nobody outside of the pews gives a rip. In fact they would likely laugh at the idea that anyone even cared.

How would the neighbours of someone you go to visit know your religion anyway?

Unless you carry a massive cross with you everywhere you go!

BlackSabb said:

"But that's different-she's blood relations". But here's the rub-the neighbours don't know that!

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Well, it's not different! What's stopping you from getting up to hanky-panky with your cousin?! Sheesh.

You just shouldn't be alone with any female other than your wife ever! No exclusions, no exceptions. Not for your cousin, sister, sister-in-law, mother, mother-in-law, or daughter.

You may not be incestuous or adulterous but dirty-minded neighbors don't know that so you have to only do what could never be construed as evil by even the most puerile of unregenerate heathens.




/sarcasm

I'm not a big fan of "rules", but I am a big fan of "common sense".

I am a happily married man of almost 11 years with 2 incredible kids. God has blessed me with an astounding wife. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for me to visit the home of a single (or married) lady from my church, from work, or from anywhere for that matter by myself.

It's absolute foolishness to think that you're the one exempt from sensual temptation. So why even put yourself in a situation where it could be a problem?

It's simply not worth it to me. I Love my wife and my kids far too much to even place myself in a situation where something like that could happen.

I don't avoid situations like that because I care what the nosy neighbors think. I do it because I Love my wife, I treasure our relationship, and I would want to do NOTHING that could even POSSIBLY jeopardize that which God has blessed me with.

probinson said:

I don't avoid situations like that because I care what the nosy neighbors think. I do it because I Love my wife, I treasure our relationship, and I would want to do NOTHING that could even POSSIBLY jeopardize that which God has blessed me with.

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I like the old preacher who said.

A sign of immaturity is "How close can I get to this before it becomes sin."

A sign of maturity is "How far away from this thing can I get so it doesn't even come close to looking like sin."


It amazes me how many people (no anyone on this forum), that care more about what some neighbor has to say, and never considers what the Holy Spirit is saying.

Well, with all the homos in the world today, we probably shouldn't be caught talking with anyone at all because talking to anyone could have sexual connotations.

LaffyTaffy said:

Well, with all the homos in the world today, we probably shouldn't be caught talking with anyone at all because talking to anyone could have sexual connotations.

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Tamara224 said:

So the only thing keeping you from indulging in sensuality is avoiding the situation that might possibly lead to temptation?

Does your wife know that the only reason you don't cheat on her is because you're never alone with other women?

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That's not even close to what I said.

My wife and I have a Loving relationship, in which we both purposely avoid unnecessary temptation.

Tamara224 said:

Does your wife know that the only reason you don't cheat on her is because you're never alone with other women?

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How can you come to that conclusion from his post?

probinson said:

I'm not a big fan of "rules", but I am a big fan of "common sense".

I am a happily married man of almost 11 years with 2 incredible kids. God has blessed me with an astounding wife. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for me to visit the home of a single (or married) lady from my church, from work, or from anywhere for that matter by myself.

It's absolute foolishness to think that you're the one exempt from sensual temptation. So why even put yourself in a situation where it could be a problem?

It's simply not worth it to me. I Love my wife and my kids far too much to even place myself in a situation where something like that could happen.

I don't avoid situations like that because I care what the nosy neighbors think. I do it because I Love my wife, I treasure our relationship, and I would want to do NOTHING that could even POSSIBLY jeopardize that which God has blessed me with.

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Tamara224 said:

So the only thing keeping you from indulging in sensuality is avoiding the situation that might possibly lead to temptation?

Does your wife know that the only reason you don't cheat on her is because you're never alone with other women?


ETA: So there's no confusion... these are pointed rhetorical questions aimed at demonstrating the logical conclusion of what Pete has said. They do not in any way mean that I think that Pete is an adulterer and are not a personal attack against him. See my follow up post regarding this.

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What about the scripture that says to avoid even the appearance of evil, nothing about being tempted or not tempted. And BTW I think that was a poor answer given the connotation, I think if it was a member it would probably have been reported.

psalms 91 said:

What about the scripture that says to avoid even the appearance of evil, nothing about being tempted or not tempted.

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That's an often misunderstood passage of Scripture that in no way nullifies the rest of Scripture.

Only the KJV renders it "avoid every appearance of evil."

Other, IMHO more accurate translations, say "avoid every kind of evil."

Jesus told us to judge with righteous judgment, not according to appearances. (John 7:24)

And BTW I think that was a poor answer given the connotation, I think if it was a member it would probably have been reported.

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Why should I be judged by your conscience?

Tamara224 said:

That's an often misunderstood passage of Scripture that in no way nullifies the rest of Scripture.

Only the KJV renders it "avoid every appearance of evil."

Other, IMHO more accurate translations, say "avoid every kind of evil."

Jesus told us to judge with righteous judgment, not according to appearances. (John 7:24)




Why should I be judged by your conscience?

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You shouldnt, just by the rules

Tamara224 said:

But if you feel you have to avoid temptation altogether in order to not sin, then the only logical conclusion is that 1) you would be tempted to commit adultery just by being alone with another woman; and 2) you believe you are incapable of resisting that temptation.

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Jesus said;Now these are the disciples of Jesus we're talking about here, guys that spent every waking moment with the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and Jesus told them to watch and pray so that they wouldn't fall into temptation. It's rather presumptuous than to say that we'll never fall into temptation. So what should we do?
Scripture is quite clear. We are to FLEE from sexual immorality. Not resist it. Not claim we've overcome the temptation toward it. FLEE from it.

Why on earth would anyone put themselves in a situation that could possibly lead to sinful actions? (Now I'll wait for someone to extrapolate that statement beyond all common sense and reason...)

Tamara224 said:

Also, like I posted in the other thread... rules such as these are of NO VALUE in restraining sensual indulgence.

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Absolutely untrue. If you remove yourself from situations where you can not be tempted, then you will not have opportunity to sin.

Of course, dealing with one's own heart is far more important than setting a boundary, but just because your heart (or spirit) is willing, it doesn't mean your flesh won't fall in a moment of weakness.

It's just not worth it to me to even put myself in a situation where that might happen. Ever. No matter how negligible anyone thinks the risk might be.

Tamara224 said:

The truth is that sin starts in the heart, not the circumstances one finds himself in.

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Agreed. That still doesn't negate common sense, watching yourself so that you don't fall into temptation, fleeing situations that could potentially cause you to sin.

Tamara224 said:

Also, remember that to the pure, all things are pure. To someone who is walking according to the Spirit, being alone with a member of the opposite sex isn't even going to be a temptation.

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If you say so. I'm quite happy for you that you've successfully conquered all fleshly temptation. You've apparently excelled beyond all 12 disciples and even Paul, who said the things that he knew not to do, that was what he found himself doing, and the things he knew he should do, he didn't do them at all (Romans 7:15).

I just can't fathom why anyone would want to place themselves in a situation that could possibly harm their marriage, no matter how small the risk. It is because I treasure the relationship I've built with my wife that I would never be alone with another woman, not because I worry that I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation, but because I see no valid reason to even place myself in such a situation.

probinson said:

It is because I treasure the relationship I've built with my wife that I would never be alone with another woman, not because I worry that I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation, but because I see no valid reason to even place myself in such a situation.

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Yes, and we ought also to honor and love our wives,
even as Christ Himself loved the church.

Having such consideration for his wife also reduces
some temptations to his wife, like the possibility of jealousy.

Godly marriage is indeed an invaluable treasure,
and should be guarded more closely than all the treasure
in one's storehouses.

We should never let our freedom be a stumblingblock to others.

Ajax 777 said:

Yes, and we ought also to honor and love our wives,
even as Christ Himself loved the church.

Having such consideration for his wife also reduces
some temptations to his wife, like the possibility of jealousy.

Godly marriage is indeed an invaluable treasure,
and should be guarded more closely than all the treasure
in one's storehouses.

We should never let our freedom be a stumblingblock to others.

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It never ceases to amaze me the people that think they have counsel to offer me on marriage. I've had divorced people try to tell me I'm wrong, I've had friends ask me "rhetorical" questions to try to "make me think", I've had co-workers offer me suggestions when they can barely stand their own wives...

I don't claim to be an expert in marriage, but I can tell you I have been happily married for over 10 years, through all the highs and lows. God has blessed me immensely with my wife, and we grow together with Him every day. We minister to one another and have just about as close to a "perfect" Biblical marriage as I believe is possible. I Love her as Christ Loved the church, and she Loves and submits to me. The result is a peaceful, joyous, happy, Spirit-filled marriage that gets better with each passing day. My wife would tell you much the same thing if you talked to her.

And yet, you'll have people, who are so enamored with their own "freedom", that they think they need to impose their revelation of this "freedom" on you. Nevermind the fact that the boundaries my wife and I have mutually put in place are in large part responsible for our successful marriage. We're free, goshdarnit! And you need to know it, and practice it, to prove how free you are!

The thing people seem to have missed somewhere along the line is that Love does not demand its own rights or its own way. So while it may be perfectly acceptable for me to be alone with another woman, and I may be "free" to do this, it is in no way profitable to me, my wife, or our marriage to exercise my freedom in a way that could potentially cause either of us to stumble;
We also should not watch that our freedom does not become a stumbling block to someone else;
This is far more about whether or not I think I can resist a fleshly temptation. The Bible is clear that we are not just to resist sexual temptation, but rather to FLEE from it. If that means I limit my freedom to never being alone with a another woman, that's an incredibly small freedom to surrender to help protect the sanctity of my marriage.

Pete I think you have shown a lot of grace in your responses and I agree with all that you are saying. Every aspect of marriage has to be protected and I admire you for that.

Tamara are you actually married? You don't display that icon. I'm just asking because a lot of what you are saying would suggest to me not. It's all too easy to be a so called expert on a situation yon know nothing about!

I would add to what has already been said that a man visiting a woman alone has to really think what message he may be giving her. I have seen a tragic situation where a completely innocent pastoral visit by a church elder was taken in the wrong way by the woman who was being visited and things got very messy!

I also think it is completely wrong to be judging others who may have more strict moral standards than we may have. Perhaps instead we should be asking ourselves if there is a message there for us or something we can learn.

1Th 5:22 AbstainG567 fromG575 allG3956 appearanceG1491 of evil.G4190

G1491
εἶδος
eidos
i'-dos
From G1492; a view, that is, form (literally or figuratively): - appearance, fashion, shape, sight.

Oh that's ok I can be alone with him/her cause we are not doing anything and we are behind closed doors.

you just destroyed your "christian" witness. that's number one number two is why put yourself into a situation where you could even be tempted.

That's ok daddy I can put my hand closer to the flame and won't get burned. see watch. Hey daddy watch me put my hand even closer to the flame. Yes doctor I know that is a bad burn but he said he can play with fire and not get burned.

To play with the fire assuming you will not get burned shows utter and complete immuturity. Folks it's time to GROW UP.

BlackSabb said:

Hi everyone. I was reading all the posts in the thread "Talking to the Pastor alone?" and it gave me an idea.

During my time in the Pentecostal/Charismatic church, I heard a number of times people say that a person (especially a young person) shouldn't go to the home of a member of the opposite sex-when that person is home alone. Because the neighbours might see and might become suspicious and cause a bad witness. I always found it interesting that the primary reason for not going to the home of a member of the opposite sex was not that it would lead you into adult temptations. You know-just you and the other person alone together away from prying eyes. But that the neighbours might see. Honestly, I wish I had a dollar for everytime I heard this. And I also found it hard to believe that any but the most pesky and nosey neighbour would give two hoots who was entering the front door next to them. I know I don't.

But I've asked this question before and nobody has ever being able to answer me. So in light of this other thread, I'll ask it again.

"How do I visit my single and alone living attractive female cousin?" If I have to worry about the neighbours seeing me enter her front door. Now, you may say to yourself:

"But that's different-she's blood relations". But here's the rub-the neighbours don't know that!

So if anyone around here believes we should not enter the home of a member of the opposite sex, can you please explain to me how do I visit a blood relation of the opposite sex when they are living alone? As I said, the neighbours don't know I'm family. Therefore if they don't know that, a bad Christian witness is established.

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The basic problem, IMNHO, is with the supposedly "spiritual" people giving those warnings. Infidels don't give a flying fig who comes and goes through the door of the pretty girl's house. The only time they even notice is when they're thinking, "Dang, I wish *I* was hittin' that!"

In my experience, it's the "Christians" who speculate and wonder and whisper and mutter and slander. They don't really care what unbelievers think, because they know the unbelievers aren't the ones who even notice. And the "Christians" really know it's not wrong, they just like having a reason to point fingers, manipulate, and try to make themselves look better by comparison.

Ya shoulda seen the sideways glances and heard the whispers when I used to give the wife and baby daughter of one of my best friends a ride to church every Sunday when he was working, or when she was my "date" for our class reunion because he didn't want to go.