The TWO FLOODS of Revelation

1whirlwind · Feb 24, 2010

There are two floods. One from the serpent's mouth and one from the dragon's.

Revelation 12:15-17 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It appears to me that the flood (of lies) from the serpent continues to deluge the woman (Israel/church) till the end. The dragon's lies are taken in by the earth (righteous but misled people). How does this help the woman? Perhaps it is a help to the church as the lies from the dragon are the obvious things we, as believers in Christ, scoff at. Hinduism, Islam, Buddism, etc. The earth swallows those lies but not the woman/church/Israel and for this reason....the dragon is wroth with her.

The lies from the serpent's mouth continue to wash over the church....the deception from false prophets and false teachers. The very elect, the remnant of her seed, are away from that deception for they have His testimony. But they are those the dragon makes war with!

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

squint · Feb 24, 2010

1whirlwind said:
There are two floods. One from the serpent's mouth and one from the dragon's.

The serpent and the dragon are one and the same. What started as a single serpent in the beginning has, in the end, become a raging dragon.

Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan,

All of these terms are the same ANTI-Christ spirit. That serpent to Dragon has had one long and continual flood.

Revelation 12:15-17 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It appears to me that the flood (of lies) from the serpent continues to deluge the woman (Israel/church) till the end.

Indeed. Anyone who cannot see this flood nearly everywhere we look today is spiritually blind but that flood is NOT a physical flood of water.

The dragon's lies are taken in by the earth (righteous but misled people).

We all have head a piece of the Dragons head to eat:

Psalm 44:19
Though thou hast sore broken us in the place of dragons, and covered us with the shadow of death.

Psalm 74:
13 Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.
14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

We ALL have had our piece(s) of that DRAGON meat from our Father.

How does this help the woman? Perhaps it is a help to the church as the lies from the dragon are the obvious things we, as believers in Christ, scoff at. Hinduism, Islam, Buddism, etc. The earth swallows those lies but not the woman/church/Israel and for this reason....the dragon is wroth with her.

The earth is our bodies. That is the habitation of the Dragon and of every evil work. That habitation has been continually turned back to the dust and the Dragon seeks his next 'watered' 'oiled' habitations which is MANKINDS bodies.

The lies from the serpent's mouth continue to wash over the church....the deception from false prophets and false teachers. The very elect, the remnant of her seed, are away from that deception for they have His testimony. But they are those the dragon makes war with!

Indeed. It is in the church where THE WORD is sown and Jesus showed us where the Word is sown SATAN does assuredly enter. It is NOT an external war, though some battle damage will be apparent on the outside. The real battle is within the TEMPLE.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Indeed. In classic fashion, the enemies at the end, on the GREAT DAY OF WRATH will turn upon themselves in the most viscious fashions. They will do FAR worse to each others than us. The harlot of Babylon will be measured her own measures multifold and drink from her own cup unto damnation.

So be it. It is written for us to view.

s

1whirlwind · Feb 24, 2010

squint said:
The serpent and the dragon are one and the same. What started as a single serpent in the beginning has, in the end, become a raging dragon.

Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan,

All of these terms are the same ANTI-Christ spirit. That serpent to Dragon has had one long and continual flood.

Hi Squint,

I agree that Satan is all of the above yet God separated him into variously named entities...perhaps according to his roles and acts. And, although he has one looooong flood there is a distinctly separate flood in the end of days. I say that as....

Revelation 12:12-13 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The man child(ren) are the firstfruits that are in the last generation...."the first shall be last."

Indeed. Anyone who cannot see this flood nearly everywhere we look today is spiritually blind but that flood is NOT a physical flood of water.

Agreed. On this same topic someone added that the flood is not only lies and deception but we can add taxation, usury, cost of living, etc. to the flood of end times....it is upon us.

We all have head a piece of the Dragons head to eat:

Psalm 44:19
Though thou hast sore broken us in the place of dragons, and covered us with the shadow of death.

Psalm 74:
13 Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.
14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

We ALL have had our piece(s) of that DRAGON meat from our Father.

Yes, we all have to overcome his deception.

The earth is our bodies. That is the habitation of the Dragon and of every evil work. That habitation has been continually turned back to the dust and the Dragon seeks his next 'watered' 'oiled' habitations which is MANKINDS bodies.

Indeed. It is in the church where THE WORD is sown and Jesus showed us where the Word is sown SATAN does assuredly enter. It is NOT an external war, though some battle damage will be apparent on the outside. The real battle is within the TEMPLE.

That is what is so difficult for folks to realize....it is from within. From within the confines of being taught in churches, books, families, schools and consequently from within ourselves as we have to wade through the misconceptions and outright false teaching we've been inundated with. It is a battle, a battle for His truth!

Indeed. In classic fashion, the enemies at the end, on the GREAT DAY OF WRATH will turn upon themselves in the most viscious fashions. They will do FAR worse to each others than us. The harlot of Babylon will be measured her own measures multifold and drink from her own cup unto damnation.

So be it. It is written for us to view.

s

Well that's an interesting view Squint. Why do you see it that way?

squint · Feb 24, 2010

1whirlwind said:
Hi Squint,

I agree that Satan is all of the above yet God separated him into variously named entities...perhaps according to his roles and acts. And, although he has one looooong flood there is a distinctly separate flood in the end of days. I say that as....

Revelation 12:12-13 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The man child(ren) are the firstfruits that are in the last generation...."the first shall be last."

Agreed. On this same topic someone added that the flood is not only lies and deception but we can add taxation, usury, cost of living, etc. to the flood of end times....it is upon us.

Yes, we all have to overcome his deception.

That is what is so difficult for folks to realize....it is from within. From within the confines of being taught in churches, books, families, schools and consequently from within ourselves as we have to wade through the misconceptions and outright false teaching we've been inundated with. It is a battle, a battle for His truth!

Well that's an interesting view Squint. Why do you see it that way?

There is a measure of TRUTH that only THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH in a person can speak.

Every single time any of us have AN EVIL THOUGHT that THOUGHT is SATAN in our minds...we have NO CHOICE in that matter. SATAN is within and no persons CHOICE can stop that working.

The Spirit of TRUTH tells us that we HAVE EATEN A PIECE OF THE DRAGON ourselves. God BROKE his head and GAVE US ALL a little SIN MEAL of that entity.

Satan is IN A PERSON when they CANNOT SPEAK this fact. Satan is A LIAR and cannot TELL THE TRUTH.

Those in whom THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH DWELLS can come forward with THIS FACT in hand because Gods Living Words have DIVIDED THEM from that working and we have NO FEAR to speak THE TRUTH. That is THE TESTIMONY that OVERCOMES and DIVIDES us from THAT WORKING...not the other people, not the unsaved...but IN us.

oh, and don't BURP at the table of Truth. It's impolite...

enjoy!

squint

1whirlwind · Feb 25, 2010

squint said:
There is a measure of TRUTH that only THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH in a person can speak.

Every single time any of us have AN EVIL THOUGHT that THOUGHT is SATAN in our minds...we have NO CHOICE in that matter. SATAN is within and no persons CHOICE can stop that working.

The Spirit of TRUTH tells us that we HAVE EATEN A PIECE OF THE DRAGON ourselves. God BROKE his head and GAVE US ALL a little SIN MEAL of that entity.

Satan is IN A PERSON when they CANNOT SPEAK this fact. Satan is A LIAR and cannot TELL THE TRUTH.

Those in whom THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH DWELLS can come forward with THIS FACT in hand because Gods Living Words have DIVIDED THEM from that working and we have NO FEAR to speak THE TRUTH. That is THE TESTIMONY that OVERCOMES and DIVIDES us from THAT WORKING...not the other people, not the unsaved...but IN us.

oh, and don't BURP at the table of Truth. It's impolite...

enjoy!

squint

I think I am understanding your reasoning on this subject a bit more. I agree that we all have been fed with pieces of his "meat." Actually, I see no way to avoid taking in his deception as we search for His truth. I also agree that it is His testimony that overcomes "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." [Rev.19:10] Only His Spirit can open revelation of His Word so we know truth and overcome.

Where I disagree is that it is Satan in us causing us to sin and that we have no choice in the matter. To me, choice is what this age is about. Do we choose our Father or choose Satan's garbage?

1whirlwind · Feb 25, 2010

squint said:
Indeed. In classic fashion, the enemies at the end, on the GREAT DAY OF WRATH will turn upon themselves in the most viscious fashions. They will do FAR worse to each others than us. The harlot of Babylon will be measured her own measures multifold and drink from her own cup unto damnation.

So be it. It is written for us to view.

s

Is this what you are referring to?

Revelation 17:16-18 And the ten horns (kings) which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

squint · Feb 25, 2010

1whirlwind said:
I think I am understanding your reasoning on this subject a bit more. I agree that we all have been fed with pieces of his "meat." Actually, I see no way to avoid taking in his deception as we search for His truth. I also agree that it is His testimony that overcomes "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." [Rev.19:10] Only His Spirit can open revelation of His Word so we know truth and overcome.

Where I disagree is that it is Satan in us causing us to sin and that we have no choice in the matter. To me, choice is what this age is about. Do we choose our Father or choose Satan's garbage?

Approach the fact this way. 1 John 3:8 connects the DEVIL to sin. There is no way to avoid this connection. You acknowledge we've been fed the 'meal.' Who as a believer CAN'T acknowledge that fact? You cannot CHOOSE to NOT SIN because YOU as Gods child are NOT THE ONLY PARTY involved in this matter. You do not MAKE A CHOICE for the DEVIL.

The devil makes YOU or I do nothing. The DEVIL DOES what the DEVIL DOES in MIND and in BODY. We are either SLAVES of that working, unknown or known, or we understand that by the Word of God WE are forgiven of that working, we are NOT THE SAME AS that working and we FIND OUR DIVISION from that working.

You can blame your choice, or should I say MORE ACCURATELY that the DEVIL in MANKIND will always BLAME someone or something ELSE other than himself because THE DEVIL in mankind cannot SPEAK THE TRUTH.

You will hear all kinds of SPIN on this matter in YOUR OWN MIND. ALL of those SPINS will revolve around JUSTIFYING YOURSELF, IMMUNIZING YOURSELF from THE DEVIL as if the DEVIL has nothing in you, and ultimately to BLAME your fellow man. This is in fact a path methodology OF THE DEVIL who is in fact working down that trail.

If your 'choice' is the deciding factor here and your 'choice' produces THE SAME THINGS THE DEVIL DOES, who is the DEVIL but YOUR CHOICE.

I don't find that scripturally tenable.

The earth in the Rev. flood account is the entirety of MANKINDS BODIES who have in fact been FED the DRAGON meal and SWALLOWED it up, to eventually turn ALL of those workings of THE DEVIL back to the DUST where those things belong. Eventually, when God is finished THIS PRESENT TIME OF JUDGMENT upon that evil worker and his workings...we will ALL be given NEW BODIES not subject to that working, the DEVIL and his messengers will be utterly destroyed and put away, and we will go on to the AGE TO COME without that working.

enjoy!

squint

squint · Feb 25, 2010

1whirlwind said:
Is this what you are referring to?

Revelation 17:16-18 And the ten horns (kings) which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

None can understand the book of Rev. unless they enter the ground of SEEING through the lens of the HOLY and SPIRITUAL working against the ANTI-CHRIST spirits who work 'in the earth' that is OUR MINDS AND BODIES. These are, in essence NOT PHYSICAL or EXTERNAL views. We may see some of the 'results' of these workings on the OUTSIDE, but the 'real' scriptural activity transpires WITHIN the HEARTS of ALL mankind, God and Satan.

We have 3 parties to THIS PRESENT drama.

Trying to view your unsaved neighbors as 'the wicked' is utterly FUTILE. They are the HOST of the wicked no different than WE are. They just happen to be UNknowing hosts whereas WE as believers can take THE TRUTH that where THE WORD is sown, SATAN does assuredly ENTER, unseen, invisible, but ENTERS.

The 'kings of the earth' are the DEVIL and his messengers. They are the 'rich men.' THEY make trade with the 'souls' of mankind, their slaves.

These matters will NOT be perceived other than by spiritual INsight.

The Kingdom of God does not and WILL NOT come by observation, EXTERNAL. His is an INNER arrival, and it will be A POWERFUL arrival upon the SUMMATION, equating to both A FLOOD and A FIRE (Noah and Lot) but it will NOT be a VISIBLE coming.

All of these matters are and always have been between The Holy Spirit and the Anti-Christ spirits who BOTH work quantifiably in mankind. God Himself did MAKE the Anti-Christ spirits for HIS PURPOSES. Those purposes will be fulfilled and God Himself WILL extract from the entire process of this present life, EXACTLY what He WILLS to be done, to the benefit of us, mankind.

enjoy!

squint

1whirlwind · Feb 25, 2010

squint said:
Approach the fact this way. 1 John 3:8 connects the DEVIL to sin. There is no way to avoid this connection. You acknowledge we've been fed the 'meal.' Who as a believer CAN'T acknowledge that fact? You cannot CHOOSE to NOT SIN because YOU as Gods child are NOT THE ONLY PARTY involved in this matter. You do not MAKE A CHOICE for the DEVIL.

Yes, the devil is connected to sin and yes, we sin. But, if I murder...I choose to murder, I choose to lie, to deceive, to sin. I choose for me...not for him. Because he is associated with sin doesn't mean he is the sin in me.

The devil makes YOU or I do nothing. The DEVIL DOES what the DEVIL DOES in MIND and in BODY. We are either SLAVES of that working, unknown or known, or we understand that by the Word of God WE are forgiven of that working, we are NOT THE SAME AS that working and we FIND OUR DIVISION from that working.

But that is what I'm saying Squint...the devil doesn't make us do anything. We choose our actions, we choose our destiny.

You can blame your choice, or should I say MORE ACCURATELY that the DEVIL in MANKIND will always BLAME someone or something ELSE other than himself because THE DEVIL in mankind cannot SPEAK THE TRUTH.

I don't blame the devil and I don't blame mankind for my sins. They are my sins.

You will hear all kinds of SPIN on this matter in YOUR OWN MIND. ALL of those SPINS will revolve around JUSTIFYING YOURSELF, IMMUNIZING YOURSELF from THE DEVIL as if the DEVIL has nothing in you, and ultimately to BLAME your fellow man. This is in fact a path methodology OF THE DEVIL who is in fact working down that trail.

I believe it is the opposite. The false justification would be in blaming anyone other than oneself for what one does.

If your 'choice' is the deciding factor here and your 'choice' produces THE SAME THINGS THE DEVIL DOES, who is the DEVIL but YOUR CHOICE.

I don't find that scripturally tenable.

The earth in the Rev. flood account is the entirety of MANKINDS BODIES who have in fact been FED the DRAGON meal and SWALLOWED it up, to eventually turn ALL of those workings of THE DEVIL back to the DUST where those things belong. Eventually, when God is finished THIS PRESENT TIME OF JUDGMENT upon that evil worker and his workings...we will ALL be given NEW BODIES not subject to that working, the DEVIL and his messengers will be utterly destroyed and put away, and we will go on to the AGE TO COME without that working.

enjoy!

squint

Then I would ask....why go through this go-round? Why bother at all. If all the wrongs are caused by Satan then what do I have to repent of? What do I have to be sorry for? What changes does He need to make in my life if it is not me sinning?

1whirlwind · Feb 25, 2010

squint said:
None can understand the book of Rev. unless they enter the ground of SEEING through the lens of the HOLY and SPIRITUAL working against the ANTI-CHRIST spirits who work 'in the earth' that is OUR MINDS AND BODIES. These are, in essence NOT PHYSICAL or EXTERNAL views. We may see some of the 'results' of these workings on the OUTSIDE, but the 'real' scriptural activity transpires WITHIN the HEARTS of ALL mankind, God and Satan.

We have 3 parties to THIS PRESENT drama.

Trying to view your unsaved neighbors as 'the wicked' is utterly FUTILE. They are the HOST of the wicked no different than WE are. They just happen to be UNknowing hosts whereas WE as believers can take THE TRUTH that where THE WORD is sown, SATAN does assuredly ENTER, unseen, invisible, but ENTERS.

My "unsaved neighbors" are not the wicked. The wicked are the wicked...they have nothing to do with being saved or unsaved.

The 'kings of the earth' are the DEVIL and his messengers. They are the 'rich men.' THEY make trade with the 'souls' of mankind, their slaves.

On that....we agree! That is the buying and selling.

These matters will NOT be perceived other than by spiritual INsight.

I like that....INsight.

The Kingdom of God does not and WILL NOT come by observation, EXTERNAL. His is an INNER arrival, and it will be A POWERFUL arrival upon the SUMMATION, equating to both A FLOOD and A FIRE (Noah and Lot) but it will NOT be a VISIBLE coming.

Again, I agree. He dwells in us now. We are of His kingdom NOW.

All of these matters are and always have been between The Holy Spirit and the Anti-Christ spirits who BOTH work quantifiably in mankind. God Himself did MAKE the Anti-Christ spirits for HIS PURPOSES. Those purposes will be fulfilled and God Himself WILL extract from the entire process of this present life, EXACTLY what He WILLS to be done, to the benefit of us, mankind.

enjoy!

squint

But why did God make the anti-christ? We are to be proven Squint. That is what this flesh life is about. And, we're proven by the choices we make.

Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

squint · Feb 25, 2010

1whirlwind said:
My "unsaved neighbors" are not the wicked. The wicked are the wicked...they have nothing to do with being saved or unsaved.

Who ARE unquestionably THE WICKED and WHERE ARE THEY?

Again, I agree. He dwells in us now. We are of His kingdom NOW.

That is the case when we are IN TRUTH.

Being IN TRUTH means we HAVE SIN. SIN is OF THE DEVIL.

Now where oh where are THE WICKED and WHO are they?

But why did God make the anti-christ?

God bound ALL MANKIND to DISOBEDIENCE so that HE MAY HAVE MERCY UPON ALL MANKIND. (Romans 11:32)

He, God, made and USES the DEVIL to bring DISOBEDIENCE in us that is NOT US, but we are BLINDED to this fact because of THAT PRESENCE, falsely thinking IT'S JUST US.

Where the Word is sown, SATAN arrives on cue and on glidepath every single time and that arrival is IN US all.

We are to be proven Squint. That is what this flesh life is about. And, we're proven by the choices we make.

IF you think you have some PRODUCE that GOD IS IN NEED OF then you merely serve A GOD WHO IS IN NEED. I serve no such God nor is God in 'need' of 'my' choices.

He HAS BEEN, IS and forever WILL BE PERFECT. The only 'needy one' involved with this matter is ME of HIM. Not vice versa.

1whirlwind · Feb 25, 2010

squint said:
Who ARE unquestionably THE WICKED and WHERE ARE THEY?

They are His enemies.....

Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

That is the case when we are IN TRUTH.

Being IN TRUTH means we HAVE SIN. SIN is OF THE DEVIL.

Now where oh where are THE WICKED and WHO are they?

Yes, we have sin and yes, sin is of the devil. No he doesn't make us sin.

There are three types Squint....the wicked, the righteous and the elect.

God bound ALL MANKIND to DISOBEDIENCE so that HE MAY HAVE MERCY UPON ALL MANKIND. (Romans 11:32)

All mankind is not bound in disobedience! In the following just who is in unbelief (NOT DISOBEDIENCE)...for it is NOT all mankind.

KJV Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.

11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes. But as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

He, God, made and USES the DEVIL to bring DISOBEDIENCE in us that is NOT US, but we are BLINDED to this fact because of THAT PRESENCE, falsely thinking IT'S JUST US.

Where the Word is sown, SATAN arrives on cue and on glidepath every single time and that arrival is IN US all.

Sorry Squint. Our Father DOES NOT WANT US TO DISOBEY. That is just so strange to believe.

IF you think you have some PRODUCE that GOD IS IN NEED OF then you merely serve A GOD WHO IS IN NEED. I serve no such God nor is God in 'need' of 'my' choices.

He HAS BEEN, IS and forever WILL BE PERFECT. The only 'needy one' involved with this matter is ME of HIM. Not vice versa.

I don't think He needs anything Squint. He wants us to be with Him. As the scripture I quoted previously told us....we are to be proven.

squint · Feb 25, 2010

1whirlwind said:
They are His enemies.....

1whirlwind said:
Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Identification missing in action. The devil is Gods MADE enemy and that working is IN mankind.

The Wicked/Their Location.

Yes, we have sin and yes, sin is of the devil. No he doesn't make us sin.

So, you posture that in ADDITION to the DEVIL being connected to every sin, you also SIN in behalf of the DEVIL?

There are three types Squint....the wicked, the righteous and the elect.

So say you. Romans 11:26-32 teaches that there are ENEMIES of the GOSPEL pertaining to the ELECTION are in fact LOVED and SAVED.

Imagine that?

All mankind is not bound in disobedience!

So says you. All have sin. All have sinned. Sin is of the devil. Sin is certainly DISobedience. Christians are NO exception.

I'll have to view Paul as more of an authority on this one kid. Sorry. You are welcome to COMPARE your reflection to his.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

In the following just who is in unbelief (NOT DISOBEDIENCE)...for it is NOT all mankind.

Well, I CAN read a little from time to time.

KJV Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.

Unbelief and disobedience seem to be generally similar. Sorry.

11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes. But as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Amazing isn't it?

You do know that ALL of Israel were taught to be Gods children in the O.T? (Deut. 14:1 Psalm 82:6)

I WONDER IF THAT IS WHY GOD LOVES THEM? hmmmm......? Does GOD love HIS CHILDREN? hmmmmm.....?

YEP!

next

Sorry Squint. Our Father DOES NOT WANT US TO DISOBEY. That is just so strange to believe.

Jesus told us clearly that where The Word is sown SATAN enters to STEAL the Word from hearts. Had the 'sin of theft' happen IN YOU lately?

Here are a few more THEFTS:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Wouldn't you consider THEFT of Gods Words to be the WICKEDNESS of SATAN in MANKIND...a SIN that happens without the man even knowing?

Hey, don't we ALL see only IN PART and DARKLY?

hmmmm?

I don't think He needs anything Squint. He wants us to be with Him. As the scripture I quoted previously told us....we are to be proven.

I don't disagree. You have to understand that most of my time posting is spent trying to convince other believers to love their unsaved neighbors as themselves and to understand there are OTHER legitimate avenues to understand not only JUDGMENT but the UNseen entities with whom YOUR THREAD is engaged.

We are to shine REGARDLESS of THEM being upon us ALL.

Just food for thought for the child of God, but SATAN in mankind gets VERY RILED when these things are pointed out. It's natural for Satan to be so IN mankind, especially in believers.

enjoy!

squint

1whirlwind · Feb 26, 2010

squint said:
Identification missing in action. The devil is Gods MADE enemy and that working is IN mankind.

The Wicked/Their Location.

All sin, all do not wilfully sin.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Those that sin are mankind for sin is in us all. Those that don't wilfully sin after receiving knowledge are the elect. Those that knowingly, wilfully sin are the wicked. They are the tares.

Identification....the tares, the wicked.
Location....among the wheat, among mankind.

They control through four dynasties....Politics, Education, Finance and Religion. Look there and you find them as well as in the paper and on the news. The beasts of the earth are those that rape and murder, those that blow up innocent people and take pleasure in the act.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The (tares/wicked), the (wheat/righteous) and who is gathering? The elect. Three types.

So, you posture that in ADDITION to the DEVIL being connected to every sin, you also SIN in behalf of the DEVIL?

I don't wilfully sin Squint. And, I NEVER sinned on behalf of the devil. I sinned because of my own weakness, desires, shortcomings, selfishness and sheer stupidity for I didn't have Him in my life. I only thought about me..not Satan.

So say you. Romans 11:26-32 teaches that there are ENEMIES of the GOSPEL pertaining to the ELECTION are in fact LOVED and SAVED.

Imagine that?
[/b]

No Squint, what He is saying is that Israel is blind IN PART for a reason. He will turn ungodliness from Jacob...not from the wicked. We don't have full knowledge of the truth for a reason.....

Romans 11:25-26 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:"

11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.

If a soul knows the truth and wilfully sins then, as written, there is no more sacrifice for sins. For that reason there is blindness in part. His mercy is given to those that don't know. Sort of...what you don't know won't hurt you. So, His elect are fed His truths as we mature, as we are able to absorb them, as He is certain we can stand on our feet with that knowledge. It is to protect us....O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! [11:33]

So says you. All have sin. All have sinned. Sin is of the devil. Sin is certainly DISobedience. Christians are NO exception.

I'll have to view Paul as more of an authority on this one kid. Sorry. You are welcome to COMPARE your reflection to his.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Well, I CAN read a little from time to time.

Unbelief and disobedience seem to be generally similar. Sorry.

They aren't at all similar. As parents we may not tell our children the whole truth for a time to protect them. As an example....on sex. Do you unload the whole story on a six year old? Of course not. At the same time do you EVER want them to disobey you? Of course not. Two entirely different things.

Amazing isn't it?

You do know that ALL of Israel were taught to be Gods children in the O.T? (Deut. 14:1 Psalm 82:6)

I WONDER IF THAT IS WHY GOD LOVES THEM? hmmmm......? Does GOD love HIS CHILDREN? hmmmmm.....?

YEP!

I'm sorry....I don't understand your point???

next

Jesus told us clearly that where The Word is sown SATAN enters to STEAL the Word from hearts. Had the 'sin of theft' happen IN YOU lately?

Here are a few more THEFTS:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Who are those being blinded by the god of this world? The lost, not God's children.

11 Corinthians 4:3 But, if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost.

Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Here, those blinded are not the lost...they are Israel and they are blinded, not by the god of this world, but by our Father for their protection.

2 Corinthians 3:14

Click to expand...

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Read farther into the passage Squint....

11 Corinthians 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Wouldn't you consider THEFT of Gods Words to be the WICKEDNESS of SATAN in MANKIND...a SIN that happens without the man even knowing?

Hey, don't we ALL see only IN PART and DARKLY?

hmmmm?

Yes, we do see only in part. Wilful sin, by definition, doesn't happen without man knowing. Wilful is wilful.

I don't disagree. You have to understand that most of my time posting is spent trying to convince other believers to love their unsaved neighbors as themselves and to understand there are OTHER legitimate avenues to understand not only JUDGMENT but the UNseen entities with whom YOUR THREAD is engaged.

We are to shine REGARDLESS of THEM being upon us ALL.

Just food for thought for the child of God, but SATAN in mankind gets VERY RILED when these things are pointed out. It's natural for Satan to be so IN mankind, especially in believers.

enjoy!

squint

That is a terrific goal Squint and follows exactly His instructions for we are to love even our enemies and....should not judge.

squint · Feb 26, 2010

1whirlwind said:
All sin, all do not wilfully sin.

You are not LIKE the unbelieving SINNERS though are YOU?

Those that sin are mankind for sin is in us all. Those that don't wilfully sin after receiving knowledge are the elect. Those that knowingly, wilfully sin are the wicked. They are the tares.

Yeah, YOU are not LIKE those OTHER PEOPLE are you? Your SIN is JUSTIFIED. It is the OTHER PEOPLE who are the WICKED isn't it?

Identification....the tares, the wicked.
Location....among the wheat, among mankind.

They control through four dynasties....Politics, Education, Finance and Religion. Look there and you find them as well as in the paper and on the news. The beasts of the earth are those that rape and murder, those that blow up innocent people and take pleasure in the act.

Yeah, ALL THEM other UNbelieving sinners are NOT LIKE YOU are they?

I don't wilfully sin Squint. And, I NEVER sinned on behalf of the devil. I sinned because of my own weakness, desires, shortcomings, selfishness and sheer stupidity for I didn't have Him in my life. I only thought about me..not Satan.

Yeah, YOU are not like all them OTHER SINNING UNbelieving PEOPLE are you whirlwind?

No Squint, what He is saying is that Israel is blind IN PART for a reason. He will turn ungodliness from Jacob...not from the wicked. We don't have full knowledge of the truth for a reason.....

Yeah, God is going to BURN ALL THEM OTHER UNbelieving SINNING people forever, but THEY are NOT LIKE you are they?

If a soul knows the truth and wilfully sins then, as written, there is no more sacrifice for sins. For that reason there is blindness in part. His mercy is given to those that don't know. Sort of...what you don't know won't hurt you. So, His elect are fed His truths as we mature, as we are able to absorb them, as He is certain we can stand on our feet with that knowledge. It is to protect us....O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! [11:33]

Yeah, YOU are not LIKE THEM are you?

They aren't at all similar. As parents we may not tell our children the whole truth for a time to protect them. As an example....on sex. Do you unload the whole story on a six year old? Of course not. At the same time do you EVER want them to disobey you? Of course not. Two entirely different things.

Yeah, it is always THOSE OTHER UNbelieving SINNERS who are NOT LIKE YOU who are the problem, aren't they? You are not LIKE them AT ALL are you?

I'm sorry....I don't understand your point???

Uh, my sin is THE SAME as any other persons. ALL of the DEVIL and NO I am NOT immune and neither are THEY, them other UNbelieving people.

I ask God for MERCY because I NEED HIS MERCY and SO DO THEY.

Who are those being blinded by the god of this world? The lost, not God's children.

Yeah, you are JUSTIFIED and THEY, those BLINDED Unbelievers are DEVILS. Certainly not LIKE YOU.

11 Corinthians 4:3 But, if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost.
Here, those blinded are not the lost...they are Israel and they are blinded, not by the god of this world, but by our Father for their protection.

Ah, so OUR FATHER is going SAVE ALL OF ISRAEL? Every LAST ONE OF THEM who has ever lived?! Even the BLINDED CAPTIVE ENEMIES OF THE GOSPEL? Do you really believe THAT?!

For the record, I do.

Read farther into the passage Squint....

11 Corinthians 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Yeah, those OTHER BLINDED PEOPLE, off with them eh? THEY are not 'like' you are they? YOU are justified in YOUR SIN and they are NOT, right?

Yes, we do see only in part. Wilful sin, by definition, doesn't happen without man knowing. Wilful is wilful.

I see, so YOUR SIN is NOT wilful but THEIRS, all of them UNbelieving BLINDED BY the god of this world people, ALL of their sin is WILFUL but YOURS is NEVER wilful? You NEVER sin WILFULLY. Ever. Never. NO, not like THEM.

That is a terrific goal Squint and follows exactly His instructions for we are to love even our enemies and....should not judge.

Oh, no, you CERTAINLY don't JUDGE....but you MIGHT say in YOUr view, that GOD certainly JUDGES THEM, but NOT YOU...you are NOT like THEM.

lol

enjoy

1whirlwind · Feb 26, 2010

All sin, all do not wilfully sin.

You are not LIKE the unbelieving SINNERS though are YOU?

No, Squint I'm not for I believe. I was like them but no longer.

Those that sin are mankind for sin is in us all. Those that don't wilfully sin after receiving knowledge are the elect. Those that knowingly, wilfully sin are the wicked. They are the tares.

Yeah, YOU are not LIKE those OTHER PEOPLE are you? Your SIN is JUSTIFIED. It is the OTHER PEOPLE who are the WICKED isn't it?

If I sin it is unintentional and not wilful. And no...I am not like them for I don't murder, I don't steal, I don't rape, I don't terrorize. Those are acts of the wicked. They have nothing to do with most "other people," who are good people even if they are misled. Again...there are three. The wicked, the righteous and the elect. The wicked and righteous are still carnal...of the flesh.

Romans 8:8-10 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

If we are spiritually alive then we are justified. [Romans 8:30]

Identification....the tares, the wicked.
Location....among the wheat, among mankind.

They control through four dynasties....Politics, Education, Finance and Religion. Look there and you find them as well as in the paper and on the news. The beasts of the earth are those that rape and murder, those that blow up innocent people and take pleasure in the act.

Yeah, ALL THEM other UNbelieving sinners are NOT LIKE YOU are they?

Unbelieving sinners are not the tares. And NO THEY ARE NOT
LIKE ME.

I don't wilfully sin Squint. And, I NEVER sinned on behalf of the devil. I sinned because of my own weakness, desires, shortcomings, selfishness and sheer stupidity for I didn't have Him in my life. I only thought about me..not Satan.

Yeah, YOU are not like all them OTHER SINNING UNbelieving PEOPLE are you whirlwind?

Nope....I'm not...I was but no more.

No Squint, what He is saying is that Israel is blind IN PART for a reason. He will turn ungodliness from Jacob...not from the wicked. We don't have full knowledge of the truth for a reason.....

Yeah, God is going to BURN ALL THEM OTHER UNbelieving SINNING people forever, but THEY are NOT LIKE you are they?

Please separate the unbelieving from the wicked. It is the wicked HE TELLS US (it's not me telling) He will burn....And NO they are not like me. I am not a tare. I am not wicked.

If a soul knows the truth and wilfully sins then, as written, there is no more sacrifice for sins. For that reason there is blindness in part. His mercy is given to those that don't know. Sort of...what you don't know won't hurt you. So, His elect are fed His truths as we mature, as we are able to absorb them, as He is certain we can stand on our feet with that knowledge. It is to protect us....O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! [11:33]

Yeah, YOU are not LIKE THEM are you?

If one has been purposefully partially blinded and can't see the minute details...does one know one can't see them? If one is a little deaf does one know one can't hear all the sounds around them? None of us know Squint how much has been revealed to us. So....as He reveals more each day I realize I have more and more to learn. But, I also realize I am His and as such....I am not like the wicked or those without His Spirit.

They aren't at all similar. As parents we may not tell our children the whole truth for a time to protect them. As an example....on sex. Do you unload the whole story on a six year old? Of course not. At the same time do you EVER want them to disobey you? Of course not. Two entirely different things.

Yeah, it is always THOSE OTHER UNbelieving SINNERS who are NOT LIKE YOU who are the problem, aren't they? You are not LIKE them AT ALL are you?

I am not one of the "other unbelieving sinners" for I do believe. No, I am not like them nor are they like me if they continue to not believe. Why does that upset you?

Would you prefer me to be an unbelieving sinner?

I'm sorry....I don't understand your point???

Uh, my sin is THE SAME as any other persons. ALL of the DEVIL and NO I am NOT immune and neither are THEY, them other UNbelieving people.

I ask God for MERCY because I NEED HIS MERCY and SO DO THEY.

An unbeliever wouldn't ask God for mercy. He needs God's mercy as do we all but...he wouldn't ask. Nevertheless....he will receive it during the millennium.

Who are those being blinded by the god of this world? The lost, not God's children.

Yeah, you are JUSTIFIED and THEY, those BLINDED Unbelievers are DEVILS. Certainly not LIKE YOU.

Squint, it is not me saying this. Our Father blinds those He will have mercy on. Satan, the god of this world, blinds the lost and they are the tares (not the unbelieving but the wicked ones).

11 Corinthians 4:3 But, if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost.

Here, those blinded are not the lost...they are Israel and they are blinded, not by the god of this world, but by our Father for their protection.

Ah, so OUR FATHER is going SAVE ALL OF ISRAEL? Every LAST ONE OF THEM who has ever lived?! Even the BLINDED CAPTIVE ENEMIES OF THE GOSPEL? Do you really believe THAT?!

For the record, I do.

Certainly I believe it....it is written. They are not the tares.

Read farther into the passage Squint....

11 Corinthians 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Yeah, those OTHER BLINDED PEOPLE, off with them eh? THEY are not 'like' you are they? YOU are justified in YOUR SIN and they are NOT, right?

I have turned to the Lord. We pray all others will turn to Him too. Once they do then...they too are saved and will not wilfully sin.

Yes, we do see only in part. Wilful sin, by definition, doesn't happen without man knowing. Wilful is wilful.

I see, so YOUR SIN is NOT wilful but THEIRS, all of them UNbelieving BLINDED BY the god of this world people, ALL of their sin is WILFUL but YOURS is NEVER wilful? You NEVER sin WILFULLY. Ever. Never. NO, not like THEM.

No...I don't wilfully sin. Remember Squint, that applies to those that have come to knowledge of the truth...not to unbelievers.

That is a terrific goal Squint and follows exactly His instructions for we are to love even our enemies and....should not judge.

Oh, no, you CERTAINLY don't JUDGE....but you MIGHT say in YOUr view, that GOD certainly JUDGES THEM, but NOT YOU...you are NOT like THEM.

lol

enjoy

Dear Squint....it sounds to me like the judging is coming from you as you judge me. Have you read anywhere any condemnation or judgment I have made?

I am not like unbelievers for I believe. I know who I am and I know I will not be separated from Him.

Romans 8:33-35 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God That justifieth; Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ That died, yea rather, That is risen again, Who is even at the right hand of God, Who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness or peril, or sword?

squint · Feb 26, 2010

1whirlwind said:
No, Squint I'm not for I believe. I was like them but no longer.

Yeah, I've heard that one before:
"stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. "

If I sin it is unintentional and not wilful.

Certainly YOU do not sin like THEM other blinded captive slaves of the DEVIL. No...not one bit similar. the "I" sin for you is MUCH DIFFERENT.

And no...I am not like them for I don't murder, I don't steal, I don't rape, I don't terrorize.

No, not at ALL. YOUR sin is ENTIRELY different than those other peoples.

Those are acts of the wicked.

Yeah, YOU are not like them OTHER people. No way. YOUR sin is much different than THEIRS.

They have nothing to do with most "other people," who are good people even if they are misled. Again...there are three. The wicked, the righteous and the elect. The wicked and righteous are still carnal...of the flesh.

Yeah, YOUR sin is different. YOU are not LIKE theirs.

If we are spiritually alive then we are justified. [Romans 8:30]

Yeah, YOUR sin is not counted like THEIRS is.

Unbelieving sinners are not the tares. And NO THEY ARE NOT LIKE ME.

No, not at ALL.

"-I am not as other men are,"

Nope....I'm not...I was but no more.

Yes, thank God!

"-God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, "

Please separate the unbelieving from the wicked. It is the wicked HE TELLS US (it's not me telling) He will burn....And NO they are not like me. I am not a tare. I am not wicked.

Yes, thank God...

"God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, "

If one has been purposefully partially blinded and can't see the minute details...does one know one can't see them? If one is a little deaf does one know one can't hear all the sounds around them? None of us know Squint how much has been revealed to us. So....as He reveals more each day I realize I have more and more to learn. But, I also realize I am His and as such....I am not like the wicked or those without His Spirit.

Yes, thank God you are NOT LIKE THEM.

"God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, "

I am not one of the "other unbelieving sinners" for I do believe. No, I am not like them nor are they like me if they continue to not believe.

No, thank God, YOU are not LIKE THEM...no.

"God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, "

Why does that upset you? Would you prefer me to be an unbelieving sinner?

Oh, no, I certainly don't believe you would have to think you are JUST LIKE THEM....no...I hear who you are clearly:

"God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, "

An unbeliever wouldn't ask God for mercy. He needs God's mercy as do we all but...he wouldn't ask. Nevertheless....he will receive it during the millennium.

You mean like the 'publican?'

Squint, it is not me saying this. Our Father blinds those He will have mercy on. Satan, the god of this world, blinds the lost and they are the tares (not the unbelieving but the wicked ones).

Yes, thank GOD you are not LIKE THEM.

I have turned to the Lord. We pray all others will turn to Him too. Once they do then...they too are saved and will not wilfully sin.

YES, thank God you are not like THE OTHER SINNERS. YOU don't WITHOLD GODS MERCY on ANY BASIS [except to BLAME them for not asking and STOP UP Gods Mercy from them as if YOU or THEY control Gods Eternal Divine Mercy.]

No...I don't wilfully sin.

No, all YOUR SIN is UNwilful and ALL theirs is WILful. Your SIN is MUCH better than THEIRS.

Remember Squint, that applies to those that have come to knowledge of the truth...not to unbelievers.

No, thank God you are not LIKE THOSE OTHERS SINNERS.

Dear Squint....it sounds to me like the judging is coming from you as you judge me. Have you read anywhere any condemnation or judgment I have made?

Oh no. YOU are not LIKE ALL them other blinded by the god of this world sinners. NO, your SIN is DIFFERENT. YOUR SIN is TOTALLY justified because of WHAT YOU DID and WHAT YOU DO....

I am not like unbelievers for I believe. I know who I am and I know I will not be separated from Him.

Yes, thank God that YOU believe YOUR SIN is not like the SIN of UNbelief. YOUR sin is ENTIRELY justified because of what YOU did and DO. Theirs however, NO. Those other sinners, WOE is THEM.

Yeah, I hear your prayer very well.

"-stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. "

Thank GOD YOU are not LIKE THEM.

enjoy!

squint

1whirlwind · Feb 26, 2010

Squint, you're a dear soul but you will not make me feel guilty for knowing who I am and who lives in me.

Romans 9:23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,

Ephesians 5:5-8 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light,

squint · Feb 26, 2010

1whirlwind said:
Squint, you're a dear soul but you will not make me feel guilty for knowing who I am and who lives in me.

Yes, thank GOD you are not like those other blinded captive unbelieving slaves of THE DEVIL.

Your sin is NOT LIKE theirs.

1whirlwind · Feb 26, 2010

squint said:
Yes, thank GOD you are not like those other blinded captive unbelieving slaves of THE DEVIL.

Your sin is NOT LIKE theirs.

No indeed it's not. I wouldn't be much of an example of Christ dwelling in someone if I was like a tare...now would I?

John 17:14 I have given them Thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shoulest keep them from the evil.

Blinded souls are NOT slaves of the devil. The wicked tares are his children...not the righteous sinner. The devil DOES NOT control the lives of the righteous. They, as did I, choose to sin...or not. The devil tempts but he doesn't force.

Hebrews 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

The TWO FLOODS of Revelation

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