Living Without Recognition

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Spherical Time

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Today a federal amendment was passed to the Constitution. It was sort of a surprise, but it was quickly ratified by all fifty states within a few hours.

The amendment is long and involved and I can't tell you what it said because I'd have to copy and paste it into a few different posts, however, I can tell you what it did.

The first thing it did was dissolve the marriages of all Christians performed in churches. If you had a civil ceremony, that's fine, but if your marriage license was signed by a priest, minister or preacher then you will have to get a new one from a judge. No new marriage licenses will be issued to anyone. You can still tell people that you're married because of the First Amendment but people will know that's just a religious belief that you have. This may cause some small changes in your lives:

Hospitals will no longer let you visit your sick wife/husband unless you have expensive legal contracts drawn up that give you power-of-attorney in medical cases. This can cost a few thousand dollars (lawyers are expensive) and they aren't guaranteed to work in all 50 states. Some places will require you to actually present a copy of the paperwork to the hospital before allowing you access, so you'd better carry them at all times.

If you have kids, they are now automatically given into custody of the mother. If the father wants custody, he'll have to formally adopt them, which usually takes a few years. So he'd better be on his best behavior and I hope he can manage the further legal costs. The state doesn't particularly like it when single people co-adopt, so expect some hassle there. Especially if you live in Florida.

Be careful to learn your new tax status. Filing together may lead to tax evasion charges, and you wouldn't want to be like Al Capone, would you?

Oh, and if it comes to that, former "spouses" have to testify against each other now. Keep that in mind.

Then there's inheritance. You won't automatically inherit from your former "spouse" any more. Again, to have a will drawn up is going to cost more money and they're rarely "ironclad." Since this amendment passed, the bulk of your former "spouse's" property is probably going to go to any real family that he or she has left, like their parent, guardian, or siblings.

If your ex-husband or ex-wife leaves you money and it actually gets to you, you're going to have to pay inheritance taxes on it. No matter what. So if you are both on the mortgage and he dies, you'll probably owe thousands and thousands of dollars of taxes on the house in which you live trying to transfer it into your name.

Again, there isn't much that you can do about this. It just comes with the legal limbo that you've chosen to live in. Why couldn't you just learn to play by society's rules?

If you had a spouse that died before this amendment was passed, be aware that any benefits that they left to you are ending. Social Security, medicare, disability, that sort of thing. Those are restricted to real family members.

Don't even think of trying to sue for those benefits either. I mean, yeah, you might have lived with that person, but are we going to let roommates sue for benefits? I don't think so. That's ridiculous. You no longer have standing to sue for wrongful death and stuff like that.

Speaking of which, insurance benefits are probably going to go away for most former married people. This should be a big boon to the insurance companies. Also, family leave and bereavement time is now probably a thing of the past for you. That person that you were married to isn't family anymore. They don't matter. So show up to work or get fired.

Whew. That's a lot of stuff, and that only covers a few pages of this new amendment. I hope that no one that got married in a Christian ceremony minds this. After all, it's only fair, right?
 
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Battie

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Before I really let the anger sink in, I should confirm:

Is that what happened to the marriages affected by Prop 8? Were the current ones not even grandfathered in so as not to turn upside down the lives of those who thought they could enjoy a safe union?

If that's the case, then I am mad as heck. How can people so thoughtlessly tear apart the lives of others?
 
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Spherical Time

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Unlike this hypothetical "amendment," the ban on gay marriage was voted on and fairly passed by the majority of the population.
Then you just did to real people what this hypothetical amendment did to you. Congratulations.
 
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Spherical Time

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Before I really let the anger sink in, I should confirm:

Is that what happened to the marriages affected by Prop 8? Were the current ones not even grandfathered in so as not to turn upside down the lives of those who thought they could enjoy a safe union?

If that's the case, then I am mad as heck. How can people so thoughtlessly tear apart the lives of others?
We don't know yet what the ruling will be. This may be what happens. Those marriages may be grandfathered in. The courts may decide that the amendment is invalid because it is contradictory to other parts of the CA constitution.

We just don't know.
 
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Battie

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We don't know yet what the ruling will be. This may be what happens. Those marriages may be grandfathered in. The courts may decide that the amendment is invalid because it is contradictory to other parts of the CA constitution.

We just don't know.

Ah, thanks. I was not aware of this development. I feel just slightly better. I can hardly imagine how painful it would be to be married and then told none of it mattered.
 
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sealacamp

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We don't know yet what the ruling will be. This may be what happens. Those marriages may be grandfathered in. The courts may decide that the amendment is invalid because it is contradictory to other parts of the CA constitution.

We just don't know.

You can make your silly stance all you like. God says marriage is between a man and a woman. No matter what sort of legal hocus pocus you conjure up God will continue to say this. Ah but you don't believe in God now do you, or right and wrong as far as families are concerned either. I have no doubts that the litany of baloney is a mile long with you and your likes. God is in control and people voted their conscience after this was thrown out the first time by activist judges. You can accept what society deems right and normal, what Gods deems right and normal and morally correct or you can continue in your rebellion until you reap your harvest. Justify your position all you like it is beyond justification except to those that have a warped sense of truth and righteousness.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a
man soweth, that shall he also reap.


And that sowing is of Gods design not mans.

Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar,

And so we stand all liars and unworthy of life. Only Gods word is true and is to be followed. So go ahead and spread around your deception for in the end you will reap what you sow.

Sealacamp
 
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KCKID

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You can make your silly stance all you like. God says marriage is between a man and a woman. No matter what sort of legal hocus pocus you conjure up God will continue to say this. Ah but you don't believe in God now do you, or right and wrong as far as families are concerned either. I have no doubts that the litany of baloney is a mile long with you and your likes. God is in control and people voted their conscience after this was thrown out the first time by activist judges. You can accept what society deems right and normal, what Gods deems right and normal and morally correct or you can continue in your rebellion until you reap your harvest. Justify your position all you like it is beyond justification except to those that have a warped sense of truth and righteousness.

And that sowing is of Gods design not mans.

And so we stand all liars and unworthy of life. Only Gods word is true and is to be followed. So go ahead and spread around your deception for in the end you will reap what you sow.

Sealacamp

Have YOU actually read about God in the Bible? That you would almost grovel to someone who behaved far worse than Adolph Hitler ever could speaks volumes about you and other Bible literalists.
 
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Allegory

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Yes, and it is also a democracy. Everyone gets a vote, and in this case the gays lost fair and square.

You know an awful lot of things would have lost in a popular vote. Women getting the vote would have been one of them.
 
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revanneosl

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You can make your silly stance all you like. God says marriage is between a man and a woman. No matter what sort of legal hocus pocus you conjure up God will continue to say this.
Sealacamp

Well, what we're discussing here is the law, not the Bible, or God's will, or church doctrine, nor any other thing but the law. So it really doesn't make any diffeence what God says. God will say what God says. That's fine. But that's not the law of the United States of America, nor any of the several states.


Yes, and it is also a democracy. Everyone gets a vote, and in this case the gays lost fair and square.

Actually, we're not a democracy. Under normal circumstances we're a Republic, which is to say that you & I don't vote on the laws, we vote on the representatives and they vote on the laws. The State of California is the current winner in loving the whole ballot-initiative thing though.

You going to celebrate if the voters change their minds in two years & go the other way.

Will we see your post here, "Everyone gets a vote, and the gays (and their friends like me) won fair and square"?

Are you into democratic decision-making, or do you just like winning?

You know an awful lot of things would have lost in a popular vote. Women getting the vote would have been one of them.

Integrated schools
The end of Jim Crow
Equal pay for equal work

and, oh yeah - Interracial Marriage
 
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wanderingone

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Unlike this hypothetical "amendment," the ban on gay marriage was voted on and fairly passed by the majority of the population.

Strange, nobody voted for my right to marry, some activist judges got together and said that the states were not allowed to discriminate on my right to marry someone who doesn't look like me... did somebody vote for your right to get married?
 
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wanderingone

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Yes, and it is also a democracy. Everyone gets a vote, and in this case the gays lost fair and square.

We don't have one person, one vote in this country no matter how much we like to claim it. We're a republic, the folks we vote into office are supposed to act on behalf of everyone, including minorities. Allowing a public vote to grant or refuse minority rights is obscene.
 
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Spherical Time

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Yes, and it is also a democracy. Everyone gets a vote, and in this case the gays lost fair and square.
Would you vote for the amendment in the OP? Why or why not?
 
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Pliny the Elder

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Unlike this hypothetical "amendment," the ban on gay marriage was voted on and fairly passed by the majority of the population.
But having a majority dictate the civil rights of the minority is against the founding principle of the Constitution which is why prop 8 will be overturned.
 
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