When does WRATH begin because WE'RE GONE BEFORE it begins!

onwingsaseagles said:

Show one passage from any of Paul's writing that would support this chronology.

locboxx says that
1st is the rapture
2nd is the signing of the covenant
3rd is the start of the tribulation
4th is the 2nd coming.
5th is the end of the tribulation.

This is not the teaching of Paul, nor is this taught any where else in scripture.

You Bro in Christ, say Paul teaches this, show me where.

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Hismessenger said:

Then we which are alive denotes that those who are with him have already died in the flesh, not raptured, the rapture is at the end just as the verse spells out. WE WHICH ARE ALIVE. If the church is gone, then who are the we!

The church isn't gone, these verses are about the rapture.
Those who come with Christ are the spirits of those who have died in Christ.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The church which goes though the wrath and tribulation protected by the seal of the Holy Spirit.

hismessenger

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locboxx said:

rapture
signing of the covenant/start of tribulation
2nd coming/end of tribulation

thats as much as i know lol

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onwingsaseagles said:

The question is who taught you that, it was definitely not from the Bible

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A Brother In Christ said:

What are the Pauline mysteries?

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onwingsaseagles said:

Show one passage from any of Paul's writing that would support this chronology.

locboxx says that
1st is the rapture
2nd is the signing of the covenant
3rd is the start of the tribulation
4th is the 2nd coming.
5th is the end of the tribulation.

This is not the teaching of Paul, nor is this taught any where else in scripture.

You Bro in Christ, say Paul teaches this, show me where.

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A Brother In Christ said:

comes down to defining scripture.... 2peter 1:19-21, Ps 89:34

I do agree with rough outline ... but the Rapture starts with rev 4
the Church is the elders rev 5:8-11

love for some one to try to make them who they are not.... angels, cherubs, OT saints .... The NT church are the firstfruits

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Hismessenger said:

Then we which are alive denotes that those who are with him have already died in the flesh, not raptured, the rapture is at the end just as the verse spells out. WE WHICH ARE ALIVE. If the church is gone, then who are the we! The church which goes though the wrath and tribulation protected by the seal of the Holy Spirit.

hismessenger

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onwingsaseagles said:

First I will note not one of these verses are from the Pauline epistles, secondly I will quote all of these these four passages to show that not one of them gives any credence to the time line you support.

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break nor alter the thing that has gone out of my lips.

2nd Peter 1:19-21
19 We have also a more sure world of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.
20Knowing this first, that no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men of God spake as they were moved on by the Holy Ghost.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice I heard was like a trumpted talking to me; which said, come up hither, and I will shew you the things that must come here after.

Revelation 5:8-11
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;


Notice 2 things
#1 Not one of your scripture were Pauline
#2 Not one of these verses supports your view



So once again I ask show me one scripture from Paul or any where else in the Bible that supports the time line locboxxx said was true and you support

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defintions of a mystery ... eph 3:9, col 1:26, romans 16:25-26

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LittleLambofJesus said:

Mystery...........Who is left after the Fury of YHWH is poured out?

Revelation 10:7 But in the Days of the voice of the seventh messenger, when-ever he may be being about to be trumpeting, also is finish/telesqh <5055> (5686) the Mystery of the God, as He brings good-news to His bond-servants, the prophets.

Reve 15:1 And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Messengers, seven, having stripes/blows, seven, the last, that in them are is finished/etelesqh <5055> (5681) the Fury of the God.

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Then we which are alive denotes that those who are with him have already died in the flesh, not raptured, the rapture is at the end just as the verse spells out. WE WHICH ARE ALIVE. If the church is gone, then who are the we! The church which goes though the wrath and tribulation protected by the seal of the Holy Spirit.

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LittleLambofJesus said:

Ephes 4:30 and no be ye sorrowing the spirit, the holy, of the God in which ye were sealed into a Day of loosening/redemption/apo-lutrwsewV <629>.

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet these-things to be becoming, up-bend ye! and lift-up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the loosening/redemption/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye.

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Hismessenger said:

People are always trying to relate what Christ has said, to the nation Israel. The fact is that Christ was talking to the members of the church Who happened by His choosing to be Jewish. How do you separate the fact that the first memebers of the church were hebrews. Logically, you can't for they are one and the same. The scriptures which I gave from Luke, Matt and Mark are speaking to the church. There is only one church made up of jews and gentiles.

There is an apostate church but they will receive the same end as the unbelieving gentiles for that is what they truly are. Unbelievers. Finally

Christ spoke of the end in this manner, First gather all the tares in a bundle to be burned, Then the church will be made manifest in all it's glory, right here on the earth for they will shine forth just like the Son. This is the rapture.

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The receiving of your reward of eternal life. Being translated into you glorified bodies. being remade in His Image without spot or wrinkle.

We are here during the wrath to preach the gospel. We are here during the tribulation to show forth Christ in our lives and our actions. God gives us every chance to come to Him but there is a limit to His mercy.

hismessenger

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A Brother In Christ said:

I answered One question of two... then you jump me for not answering #2

yet you did not answer..... who are the elders ?

Pauline mysteries...
#1 Romans 16:25-26, eph 6:19 Mystery Gospel

#2 Eph 3:2,9 Mystery of the dispensation of grace from God

#3 Colssians 1:27 Mystery of Christ in you the hope of glory

#4 ephesians 3:3-6 Mystery of thee Christ

#5 Colossians 2:2-3 Mystery of the God even the Father and the Christ

#6 1 thim 3:16 Mystery of Godliness

#7 1 tim 3:9 ... Mystery of thee faith

#8 romans 11:25 Mystery of Israel hardness

#9 1 cor 15:51-54 Mystery of the rapture of the church

#10 eph 5:25-32 Mystery of Christ and His bride

#11 2 thes 2:2-7 Mystery of lawlessness

#12 eph 1:9-10 mystery of God's will

defintions of a mystery ... eph 3:9, col 1:26, romans 16:25-26

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onwingsaseagles said:

Show one passage from any of Paul's writing that would support this chronology.

locboxx says that
1st is the rapture
2nd is the signing of the covenant
3rd is the start of the tribulation
4th is the 2nd coming.
5th is the end of the tribulation.

This is not the teaching of Paul, nor is this taught any where else in scripture.

You Bro in Christ, say Paul teaches this, show me where.

Click to expand...

A Brother In Christ said:

comes down to defining scripture.... 2peter 1:19-21, Ps 89:34

I do agree with rough outline ... but the Rapture starts with rev 4
the Church is the elders rev 5:8-11

love for some one to try to make them who they are not.... angels, cherubs, OT saints .... The NT church are the firstfruits

Click to expand...

onwingsaseagles said:

First I will note not one of these verses are from the Pauline epistles, secondly I will quote all of these these four passages to show that not one of them gives any credence to the time line you support.

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break nor alter the thing that has gone out of my lips.

2nd Peter 1:19-21
19 We have also a more sure world of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.
20Knowing this first, that no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men of God spake as they were moved on by the Holy Ghost.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice I heard was like a trumpted talking to me; which said, come up hither, and I will shew you the things that must come here after.

Revelation 5:8-11
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;


Notice 2 things
#1 Not one of your scripture were Pauline
#2 Not one of these verses supports your view



So once again I ask show me one scripture from Paul or any where else in the Bible that supports the time line locboxxx said was true and you support

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onwingsaseagles said:

I didn't ask but one question and you did not answer it, and still have not. There is not one solitary scripture you have quoted that says the rapture is first, the signing of the covenant second, the trib third, the 2nd coming fourth and the end of the trib fifth. Not does none of your scripture say all these things even if you put them together none of those scriptures say any of these things.

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A Brother In Christ said:

Show one passage from any of Paul's writing that would support this chronology.

locboxx says that
1st is the rapture ... Next prophectic event ... 1 cor 15:51-54, 1 thes 4:16-18, 1 thes 1:10, 1 thes 5:1-2,9

2nd is the signing of the covenant 2 thes 2:1-4 most bible have terrible translations

3rd is the start of the tribulation Rev 6 , OT scriptures... like Daniel

4th is the 2nd coming. rev ...

5th is the end of the tribulation. rev...

who inspires all writer of the bible... Holy Spirit... 2 peter 1:19-21

the reason when they disagree.... usually someone taking it out of context

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Mat 13:1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

Mat 13:2And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

Mat 13:3And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

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Mat 13:28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

Mat 13:29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Mat 13:30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

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Hismessenger said:

Jesus teaching




Now that we have established that Christ spoke in that manner, the word is truth. The wicked are taken out before any rapture occurs. The church, saints are surrounded by Satan and His army. God comes to fight for the church and dispatches Satan. Gather first the tares, the enemy who sowed them is Satan. Now comes the rapture. This Christ spoke Himself of the future when He would come again to gather His people and bring judgement upon unelieving man. Do you trust in the word or what some man has told you to be what they believe is the truth. The word says I am the way, the truth and the light. If you don't accept his word then you have no light in you. Only darkness brought on by sinful flesh

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