Seal #1 rider is "Victorious" "Overcomer"

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HisdaughterJen

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Tell me if you see what I see:

Seal #1 is the Holy Spirit filled church taking the Gospel to the world. It is NOT the anti-christ which has erroneously been taught in church. There are no scriptures to prove it's the anti-christ. It was the last thing Jesus said to the disciples and the first thing He did when He ascended:

Act 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you (crown); and you will be my witnesses (white horse & bow=Word of God) in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (conquering)

(the Greek word is "nikeo" and it means "victory" or "overcomer")


Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.


Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

("Conquer" is the greek word "nikeo" meaning "victory" or "overcomer" so the rider of the white horse went forth in victory and to be victorious)
 

zeke37

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all you have to do is realize that the BOW that he has is not a weapon, but a "rainbow" or clothing / covering (you are always taking about the giving of the white robes).....it is what he is wearing....appearance


Jesus' appearance is described for us more than once...and it is the bestest bestest there is...




this first rider's "bow" is as follows...

G5115
τόξον
toxon
tox'-on
From the base of G5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric): - bow.


it is not a weapon, nor even anything true.....but a fake cheap rip off immitation appearance or covering....the kinda stuff we discourage in the West. We have laws against it....lol.

he is the fake Jesus, the antiChrist.....



it is NOT the Gospel going out as you claim....that will happen later when God speaks through the witnessing elect HIMSELF....then the whole world will hear the truth....Luke21, Rev10....and that happens right at the end, because THEN the end will come....


be honest with the Greek text and think on it.

in His service
c
 
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garry2

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Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Would God give satan a crown? I don't believe so.
Does satan conquer or is he conquered? he is conquered, chained in the abyss and later thrown into the lake of fire.
 
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zeke37

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many evil individuals have held crowns...see the history of Israel....the crown represents the authority...

but fyi, Satan conquers first (Rev11:7, 13:7), and then later is conquered by Christ at His arrival(2Thes2:8, Rev17:14).

now, today, Satan is this world's leader....unless you(anyone) are no longer of this world, then it is Christ who is you leader...

but it is Satan's playground now....and will be until Christ returns and defeats him.

in His service
c
 
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garry2

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many evil individuals have held crowns...see the history of Israel....the crown represents the authority...

But did God give these evil individuals their crowns, i know He has taken away some, king saul of old comes to mind.

but fyi, Satan conquers first (Rev11:7, 13:7), and then later is conquered by Christ at His arrival(2Thes2:8, Rev17:14).

now, today, Satan is this world's leader....unless you(anyone) are no longer of this world, then it is Christ who is you leader...

but it is Satan's playground now....and will be until Christ returns and defeats him.

in His service
c
...
 
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Brain Damage

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I believe Jesus had already opened the seals or at least reveiled their meaning in his olivet discourse , and therefore the fist seal or rider would be -

Mathew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
 
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zeke37

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Garry, God ordained King Saul...and he was pretty bad.

but the text does not say that GOD gave the crown...and it is very symbolic anyway...crown for authority....


and as we learn in Joel2, the end time locust army, although lead by Satan, is actually sent of the Father....it is His army....tot est His children.
 
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garry2

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Garry, God ordained King Saul...and he was pretty bad.

but the text does not say that GOD gave the crown...and it is very symbolic anyway...crown for authority....

But you said israels kings were given crowns by, assumeiably God because it was your answer to my saying "God would not give a crown to the rider of the white horse who had a bow if he were satan".

and as we learn in Joel2, the end time locust army, although lead by Satan, is actually sent of the Father....it is His army....tot est His children.

No , it's not Gods army, you said yourself it's satans army.

God sends a army led by satan, you are off your head to say it mildly, the angels are Gods army.
 
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Bible2

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HisdaughterJen posted in message #1:

Tell me if you see what I see:

Seal #1 is the Holy Spirit filled church taking the
Gospel to the world.

The white horse and rider of seal #1 (Revelation 6:2)
could very well be symbolic of the gospel of Christ
(the rider on the white horse in Revelation 19:11)
going forth to all the nations (Matthew 24:14).

HisdaughterJen posted in message #1:

It is NOT the anti-christ which has erroneously been
taught in church. There are no scriptures to prove
it's the anti-christ.

That's exactly right, for the Antichrist may not
appear on the world scene (as in Daniel 11:21) before
the great war of seal #2 (Revelation 6:4) which, with
its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up
killing one-fourth of the world (Revelation 6:5-8).
Instead, the Antichrist could first be given some
power (Daniel 11:21) sometime after that war, which
could be the same war in which Israel and Egypt will
be defeated (Daniel 11:15-16). The "great sword" of
that war (Revelation 6:4b) could refer to the nuclear
weapons of Israel, which it could use in its death
throes against the nations defeating it (which could
be Iraq, Syria, and Iran).

The attack on Israel could be led by a massive Iraqi
Army built up by the U.S. to attack Iran. But instead
of attacking Iran, the Iraqi Army could suddenly turn
on its heels and make a surprise attack on Israel (and
then Egypt), supported by the Syrian Army and missiles
shot from Iran. This attack could happen in 2010, by
which time the U.S. could have drawn down almost all
of its exhausted forces out of Iraq, letting the work
they did be taken over by a capable Iraqi Army.

So Israel needs to watch out for that Iraqi Army!
(mark those words). No matter how much its leader
pretends that he only wants to invade Iran, and is
friendly toward Israel, it could all be a ruse to get
the U.S. to build up, train, and equip the Iraqi Army
with all the latest and best weapons systems, to
ostensibly "take out Iran with its dangerous nuclear
program and crazy regime". But the real (and totally
secret) plan of the leader of the Iraqi Army could be
to take out Israel and Egypt and set himself up as the
leader of the Arabs. He could then turn to Russia and
China to back him up against the U.S. And Russia
could gladly agree, just to poke its finger in the eye
of the U.S. and to sell its weapons to the Arabs. And
China could gladly agree in exchange for promises of
cheap oil. And old Europe could stand at a distance
not wanting to get involved in any war. And the U.S.-
hating and Israel-hating U.N. could agree that the
action of the Iraqi Army leader was (as it could say)
"in the interests of Arab self-determination. Clearly
the Israel experiment was a complete failure, causing
more problems (most utterly intractable) than it
could ever hope to solve".

And so the world could allow the Iraqi Army leader to
set up an Arab confederation of Iraq, Syria (including
"Palestine", i.e. a defeated Israel), and Egypt. It is
this confederation that the Antichrist (who could be
Arab) could later be given control of (Daniel 11:21),
after the Iraqi Army leader disappears from the scene
(Daniel 11:19).
 
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Bible2

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vinsight4u posted in message #11:

The first seal rider was the first ruler of Iraq.

The first seal with its white horse (Revelation 6:2)
could be symbolic of the gospel of Christ (the rider
on the white horse in Revelation 19:11) going forth
to all the nations of the world (Matthew 24:14).

Regarding the first ruler of Iraq, who that was would
depend on how one defined Iraq, whether merely as the
territory which just happens to be encompassed by
modern-day Iraq or as the modern nation-state itself.

The first ruler of the territory which just happens
to be encompassed by the modern nation-state of Iraq
could have been Nimrod (Genesis 10:8-12).

The first ruler of the modern nation-state of Iraq
could be Faisal I, whom the British set up as king
of Iraq after World War I.

The first seal rider can't be Nimrod because he lived
thousands of years before Christ, and the first seal
event was one of the events "which must be hereafter"
(Revelation 4:1b) from the time of the first century
AD, when Christ spoke Revelation 4:1b to the apostle
John.

The first seal rider who went forth conquering
(Revelation 6:2) would picture Faisal I insofar as
he led the Arab armies in their successful revolt
against the Ottoman Empire during World War I. But
he died way back in 1933, and it would seem more
likely that the completion of the first seal would
be more closely connected in time with the beginning
of the second seal, which will be a horrible future
war which, with its aftermath of famines and
epidemics, will end up killing one-fourth of the
world (Revelation 6:4-8). That this war will involve
a "great sword" (Revelation 6:4b) could refer to the
use of nuclear weapons.

vinsight4u posted in message #11:

Go read the prophecy song of Moses in Deuteronomy 32.
v 34
sealed
laid up
with Me
among My treasures

Deuteronomy 32:34 could refer to the vengeance of
Deuteronomy 32:35, which could be God's vengeance on
the enemies of His people Israel (Deuteronomy
32:36-43).
 
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Bible2

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vinsight4u posted in message #11:

I agree too - watch out for the Iraqi military.
Iraq will attack Israel

The Iraqi Army very well could attack Israel, not as
the Iraqi Army is now, but as it could be by 2010.
For what the U.S. could do is begin to greatly
increase the size and capabilities of the Iraqi Army,
not only so that the Iraqi Army will be able to fully
take over the role now being filled by the exhausted
U.S. military forces in Iraq, but possibly also so
that the Iraqi Army (basically as a proxy for the
U.S.) will be able to invade and conquer Iran, in
order to rid the Middle East (especially Israel) of
the Iranian nuclear threat and extremist regime.

But what could happen is that right when a huge Iraqi
Army (fully trained and equipped by the U.S. with all
the latest and best weapons systems) is ready to
conquer huge Iran, it could suddenly turn on its heels
and conquer tiny Israel (and then Egypt) instead
(Daniel 11:15-16).

If this happens, it will he horribly ironic, for
Israel, the good friend of the U.S., will end up
being destroyed by U.S. weapons and training.

But then the question must be asked: If that could
happen, if a huge Iraqi Army could suddenly turn
and conquer Israel (and then U.S.-ally Egypt),
wouldn't the U.S. foresee that possibility and refuse
to make the Iraqi Army that large and powerful?

Not necessarily, in the sense that while the U.S.
would certainly foresee the possibility that a huge
Iraqi Army capable of conquering huge Iran could
certainly conquer tiny Israel instead, if it wanted
to, the U.S. could figure that the probability of that
happening is so low as not to be worried about.

But then someone could ask: "But why would the U.S.
assume a low probability of a huge Arab Army wanting
to conquer tiny Israel?"

What could contribute to that assumption could be the
assurance of the leader of the Iraqi Army to the U.S.
government that he is friendly toward Israel and only
wants to take out non-Arab Persian Iran, a rival of
the Arabs for dominance in the Middle East.

But then someone could ask: "Yeah, but if that guy is
lying, and really wants to use his huge army (given
to him by the U.S.) to take out Israel, wouldn't the
CIA, NSA, or Mossad pick up on that at some point?
I mean, he would have to talk to someone about his
plans to take out Israel, and everything he says in
his office or over the phone or in his car, or even
in the innermost privacy of his bedroom, will
certainly be picked up by ubiquitous U.S. and Israeli
bugs and taps. The guy would have to get caught in his
lie eventually".

Not necessarily. The leader of the Iraqi Army could be
smart enough to know that the U.S. (and Israel) are not
just going to take his word that he likes Israel and
only hates Iran, but will be bugging his every word,
even to his children as he kisses them goodnight in
their bedrooms. So he is not going to tell anyone at
all, ever, about his plans to invade Israel (and then
Egypt) and basically take over the Middle East on his
own terms. He will keep it a total secret, even from
his closest confidants.

But then someone could ask: "Okay, let's say he
actually fools the U.S. and Israel, and they agree
that he can have a huge army to conquer Iran with.
Once he gets that army (from the U.S.), how could
he just suddenly invade Israel? I mean, he'd have
to tell his army at some point to roll west instead
of east, and wouldn't the Iraqi Army leaders under
him balk at that command and say 'No way. What are
you doing? We can't invade Israel. The U.S. will
destroy us. Israel will nuke us. You're mad.' "

Some of the leaders of the Iraqi Army could say that
to him, but others could jump at the chance to
(as they could say) "finally throw Israel into the
sea". And he could answer the fearful leaders as
follows (remember this would be in 2010):

"Look, the U.S. Army is all bogged down in
Afghanistan and western Pakistan, and the U.S. Navy
is all bogged down defending Taiwan from the current
threats from China to finally take it over. If we
move quickly, we can be occupying Israel and Egypt
long before the U.S. is able to mount a counter-
attack to take back Egypt and Israel. And by the time
they try to make that counter-attack, we'll be dug in
all along the shores of Egypt and Palestine, and I'll
get Putin to back us up. I'm sure he'd love to in
his hatred for the U.S. The U.S. will probably try
to make a dangerous amphibious assault somewhere along
the shore of Egypt, where we can cut them to ribbons
in the water, killing 20,000 or 30,000 of them in a
single day. The U.S. people will wail and moan;
they're total weaklings. They'll say 'What the hell
are we doing? Who cares about Egypt? And who cares
about Israel? Let all the Jews come and live with
us here in the U.S. where they'll be safe. My God,
we can't let any more of our children be slaughtered
in this madness!' And so the U.S. won't have the
stomach or the willpower to make any more all-out
assaults against us."

But then one of the leaders of the Iraqi Army could
speak up: "Sir, let us assume that we are successful
in occupying Israel and Egypt, and successful in
defeating a first major counter-attack by the U.S.
What about Israel's nuclear weapons? Wouldn't they
have used them against our major Iraqi cities in
retaliation while we were defeating them?"

"Yes, they very well could do something like that,
they are so evil. So all of you might want to tell
your families to evacuate Baghdad and Mosul and Basra
and An Najaf and Arbil and Kirkuk until we have full
control of Israel and its nuclear weapons."

"Sir! You are willing for millions of innocents in
Iraq to be incinerated just so we can defeat Israel?"

"Look. Israel probably won't use its nuclear weapons
against us because of the recent claims by Iran that
it has developed nuclear weapons and will use them
against Israel if Israel ever uses its nuclear weapons
against any Muslim nation."

"But isn't that just a bluff on Iran's part?"

"There's no way to know for sure. Why do you think the
U.S. and Israel are so eager for us to invade Iran?
Because they are so scared of Iran's nuclear
capability. They know that only we will be able to
take over all of the deep-underground nuclear sites
in Iran and actually determine what's going on down
in every last one of them. Their bombs can't reach
that deep and their spies can't infiltrate all of the
many different sites. And wasn't there a seismic
reading some months ago near the location of one of
the sites, which Iran said was a successful test of a
nuclear weapon, while the U.S. and Israel claimed
that that was just a bluff, that it was only a natural
earthquake? They just said that because they're so
embarrassed that Iran could actually have developed a
nuclear weapon. And by now Iran could have built
five or six of them, enough to obliterate Israel."

"But what about delivery? Doesn't Israel know that
Iran has no way of delivering those bombs against
Israel?"

"No. Israel doesn't know that at all. Hasn't Iran
proved that it has missiles that can reach Israel?
So it can send missiles with nuclear bombs over to
Israel."

"But what if Israel is so mad when we defeat them
that they will send their nuclear bombs against
our Iraqi cities without caring if Iran nukes Israel
in return?"

"No. Israel is too small. It knows that if it's
nuked it's ruined for good. It would rather suffer
conventional defeat and hope that it can return on
the back of a U.S. counter-invasion sometime down the
road."

"Sir, some U.S. soldiers are breaking down the front
door of this building."

"Of course. The CIA and Mossad have heard our every
word. We've talked too long. One of you, quickly, call
the nearby barracks to send enough of our troops over
to kill the U.S. soldiers before they can get up to
this office. And all of you, hurry, get on your phones
and get your divisions moving out of Baghdad as soon
as possible and on their way toward Israel. And let's
kill all of the U.S. soldiers left in Baghdad on our
way out. There's so few of them left it shouldn't take
very long. Come, let us hurry."

And so the leader of the Iraqi Army could convince his
subordinates to invade Israel suddenly, without any
warning.

(Continued in next post)
 
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Bible2

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But someone could say: "Okay, let's assume that a
huge Iraqi Army makes a surprise attack on Israel in
2010. Couldn't Israel still defend itself by sending
its Air Force to destroy the columns of the Iraqi Army
rolling toward Israel? It would be like shooting fish
in a bucket".

Not necessarily. Between Baghdad and Israel it's
basically flat desert, so that the Iraqi Army could
spread out into huge, staggered formations that will
not be able to be easily bombed and strafed by planes.
And the Iraqi ground formations could be packed with
mobile anti-aircraft weapons systems. So Israel could
end up losing most of its Air Force while only being
able to take out a fraction of the Iraqi ground
forces. And by the time the Iraqi ground forces reach
Israel, they could still be overwhelmingly huge
compared to the Israeli ground forces, for the Iraqi
ground forces will have been made large enough by the
U.S. to be able to conquer huge Iran.

So poor Israel (and then Egypt) could end up being
defeated (Daniel 11:15-16), all because the U.S.
(no doubt with Israel's agreement) wanted to send an
Iraqi proxy army into Iran.

vinsight4u posted in message #11:

but not till Daniel 11:21 is the time of the ac stands
up in Iraq (as the vile person)

That's right, insofar as the leader of the Iraqi Army
won't be the Antichrist, even though many will no
doubt think that he is when he defeats Israel. After
he defeats Israel and Egypt (Daniel 11:15-16), he will
go off and defeat some other countries (Daniel 11:18a),
possibly including Libya and Tunisia, until he is
finally held off by one country (Daniel 11:18b),
possibly Algeria. Then, as the leader of the Iraqi
Army is retreating he will disappear from the scene
(Daniel 11:19), possibly in some vast sandstorm in
Libya.

But a confederation of Iraq, Syria (including
"Palestine", i.e. a defeated Israel) and Egypt which
will have been put together could survive his
disappearance. His subordinates could appoint a new
leader over this confederation, who could then die
after only a few days (Daniel 11:20), possibly while
having coffee in the office of an Arab prime minister
of Lebanon, whom he could have been persuading to
bring Lebanon into the confederation.

It could be this Arab prime minister of Lebanon who
could have murdered the new leader of the
confederation by secretly poisoning his coffee, but
with a substance that caused a natural-looking heart
attack. This Arab prime minister of Lebanon could then
make such overtures (as in gigantic bribes) to the
subordinates of the original leader of the
confederation who disappeared that they will then
appoint him as the new leader of the confederation,
but with the caveat that his position will only be
"pro tempore".

But little will they know who they are dealing with
(just as little did those Germans know who they were
dealing with when they first gave some power to
Hitler), for this Arab prime minister of Lebanon, and
now the new leader of the entire confederation, will
be none other than the Antichrist himself (Daniel 11:21).
 
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Bible2

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vinsight4u posted in message #15:

Hi

Hi.

vinsight4u posted in message #15:

What if we let the first seal rider be about Iraq,
and each of the other seals also be about Iraq?

The first seal rider on the white horse (Revelation
6:2) could represent the gospel of Christ going forth
to the world (Matthew 24:14), for Christ is the rider
on the white horse in Revelation 19:11.

The second seal represents a great war (Revelation
6:4), which, with its aftermath of famines and
epidemics will end up killing one-fourth of the world
(Revelation 6:8). This war could involve Iraq
attacking Israel, and then Egypt, after the U.S. has
built up a huge Iraqi Army to attack Iran instead.
Israel could retaliate with nuclear weapons, which
could be the "great sword" of Revelation 6:4b.

The third seal represents a great famine (Revelation
6:6) which will affect one-fourth of the world
(Revelation 6:8) after the war (Revelation 6:4).

The fourth seal represents all the death which will
occur in one-fourth of the world from the war, the
famine, and from epidemics (Revelation 6:8).

vinsight4u posted in message #15:

Moses sang to Israel about a sealed up nation for the
end.
Deuteronomy 32

Deuteronomy 32:21b refers to the figurative nation of
saved Gentiles (Romans 10:19, 11:11).

Deuteronomy 32:34 is referring to God's vengeance
being sealed up until he's ready to unleash it.

vinsight4u posted in message #15:

So let Iraq be the nation unsealed in Rev. 6.

Revelation 6:4 doesn't refer to a nation being
unsealed, but to a great war involving various
nations (such as Iraq, Israel, Egypt, Syria, Iran)
being allowed to happen at that time.
 
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Bible2

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vinsight4u posted in message #16:

Some say that Daniel 11 has already been done with
all the way to at least verse 36 or verse 40, or such.

Daniel 11:21-45 refers to the career of one man, the
Antichrist; it has never been fulfilled. Jesus said
in Matthew 24:15 that we will see the abomination of
desolation spoken of in Daniel 11:31,36 (cf.
2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The great war of Daniel 11:15-16, when Israel and
Egypt will be defeated (probably by Iraq), will be
all over with before the Antichrist even arises on
the world scene in Daniel 11:21.

vinsight4u posted in message #16:

The war in Iraq will fail.
Democracry wil fail - as Daniel 11 shows that in
verse 16 the ruler will do according to his own will.

It's not that the war in Iraq will fail, it's that
the U.S. will give up on the hopeless task of trying
to impose democracy on Iraq, and will change its goal
in Iraq into making Iraq a weapon with which to attack
Iran while the U.S. tranfers its own forces in Iraq
over to Afghanistan and the border area with Pakistan.

By 2010, the U.S. could have built up a huge Iraqi
Army to take over all of the reponsibilities formerly
shouldered by U.S. forces, and then a friendly Iraqi
General could be placed in "temporary" charge of all
of Iraq. The U.S. could then declare "Mission
Accomplished" (again), saying that the war has been
won, the U.S. has brought about peace and stability
and self-government in Iraq, and has completely
defeated the insurgents and Iranian influence in Iraq.

Then the "democracy" charade in Iraq could be put on
hold indefinitely due to a crisis in Iran, such as its
declaring its first successful test of a nuclear
weapon. The huge Iraqi Army could then be fully
mobilized and equipped by the U.S. for an invasion of
Iran "for Iraq's self-defense, and for the safety of
the entire region [read Israel]".

But before Iraq invades Iran, another crisis could
suddenly erupt in Israel, where some ultra-Orthodox
Jews in Jerusalem could blow up the Dome of the Rock,
the third holiest site in Islam (after Mecca and
Medina), to make way for the rebuilding of the temple.
The huge Iraqi Army, made up of Muslims, could then,
in its rage, turn on its heels and make a surprise
attack on tiny Israel, and succeed in defeating
Israel, and then take over Egypt as well (Daniel
11:15-16).
 
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jellybean99

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Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

Rev. 6:1-4

The "crown" is a wreath, like the kind ancient athletes would be awarded for winning an athletic contest. It does not denote royalty.

George W. Bush was "given" the presidency by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000 by a vote of 5-4. Since 9/11, the Bush war machine has went forth conquering and to conquer.

We are approaching the time where the rider on the red horse takes peace from the earth with his "great sword" (weapon). The U.S. armada, along with France and Great Britain, are forming a blockade around Iran to choke out supply routes. War seems inevitable.

The time for idle speculation grows short. The 4 horsemen are upon us. The fulfillment of the 70th 7 (Dan. 9:27) through the ENP agreement pegs this point in history as the last 7 years before Christ's return. I suggest that you prepare yourselves for the Great Tribulation that is closing in on the world at this very moment.
 
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