Why are there so many Christians, who have never read the bible?

trivista said:

• If the King James Version was truly divinely inspired, there would be no mistakes. This is not the case, however; the word "Sabbath" is dropped in Heb 4:9; in Acts 12:4, the KJV says "Easter" where the Jewish holiday of Passover is being referred to. Further, in Deuteronomy 8:9 the King James Version has Moses describing the Promised Land as having hills where "thou mayest dig brass". Brass is an artificial alloy of copper and zinc and cannot be found in nature. The correct translation should be 'copper'.

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Dropped from where, Trivista?

[bible]Hebrews 4:9[/bible]

Hebrews 4:9 - AV1587 Geneva Bible said:

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

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Hebrews 4:9 - AV1568 Bishop's Bible said:

There remayneth therfore yet a rest to the people of God.

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I think it might be because some people are "Christian" as in go to Church and observe Christmas and Easter, but don't really believe the religion or adhere to it's tenets inside themself, thus they don't really have an interest in reading the Bible. Since Christianity isn't really a lifestyle for them.

I know that was the case for practically everybody at the church where we used to go a few years ago. No one was really christian, they just went to church. I didn't get it at all, especially since my parents are atheists but said they wanted me to get a religious education so we all somehow ended up going to church for a couple years but none of us believed in anything Christian.

Christianity never interested me very much in terms of world Religions, and no one in the church seemed to know or care what was said in the bible. I remember one Sunday school class, we were asked to name the 10 Commandments and even together as a class we couldn't do it. :-D

Well we had two teachers, parents who volunteered to "teach" us about Christianity (Remember no one at the church really believed in it themselves or had read the Bible)

They both had to sort of consult with eachother and ended up just looking it up in the bible cause they didn't really know.


I don't get it, if you're not serious about a religion deep down, why bother going through the motions?

AV1611VET said:

Because all you need to pwn evolution is one page out of the Bible, the first one.

And to pwn atheism is even easier, all you need is one verse, the first one.

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hahahaha

I like that answer!

AV1611VET said:

That's because evolution is a game Satan is playing with God's creation, and God is going to have the final say.

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Why can't it simply be:
"Moses wrote Genesis in a poetic language. When it got translated into English, American Christians took it literally, and never even considered that God used the process of evolution to yield Adam" ?

I don't know that you have to read the bible to be a Christian. You certainly don't have to read it to be a follower of Jesus, or even a good Jew.

KJV Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O
man, what is good; and what doth the
LORD require of thee, but to do justly,
and to love mercy, and to walk humbly
with thy God?"

NRS Micah 6:8 "He has told you, O
mortal, what is good; and what does the
LORD require of you but to do justice,
and to love kindness, and to walk
humbly with your God?"

Not a thing in there indicates required reading or even requires literacy.

I have heard of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, but some of you folks have thrown out the baby and kept the bathwater.

Parogar said:

All that proves is that you don't need to read the bible to be a good Christian , according TO the bible.

But thinking in a logic-based manner, it is foolish to believe in things that you know nothing about... I mean, I wouldn't invite someone to a book discussion if they hadn't read the book. And since the entire Christian faith is based on a book, you damn well should read it.

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Actually, I have read it, although I am not a Christian. It was like refining ore. There is some gold to be extracted and some dross that was pretty much useless, and even some poisons that would make you sick or kill you dead if taken internally.

That the universe is conscious is self evident. I am part of the universe. I think, therefore the universe thinks. Of course my toenail doesn't think. But I do.

And speaking of believing in things you know nothing about: How do you stand on the question of homousion vs. homoiusion?

Parogar said:

For something to be self evident, it must be known to be true without the need of proof.

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Well, I am conscious. I am not a separate thing from the rest of the universe. In fact I am inseparable from it, a pattern of matter/energy in space/time. If I am conscious, though my toenail is not, then the universe is conscious, even though a stone is not. QED

Of course I may be a figment of your imagination, or a bot. In that case, you are conscious and the universe is conscious. QED

The "homousion vs. homoiusion" controversy rocked the early Christian Church and tore it apart. It was whether , insofar as spirit goes, the Son was of the same substance as the Father (homousion) or of a similar substance to the Father (homoiusion). Now both sides admitted that spirit is insubstantial, but they nevertheless, quarreled, fought, excommunicated, anathematized, and damned each other over the matter of the iota although some could not see that it made an iota of real difference.

In case you're interested, after the intervention of the Roman government, and a judicious use of lash and stake, it was decided in favor of the homousion folks. That controversy is one of several that was settled by the adoption of the Nicene Creed.

AV1611VET said:

PREAMBLE TO THE U.S. CONSTITUTION

• We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

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Dude. Read a book. That's the opening of the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

Just because someone states that something is self-evident, doesn't mean it IS.

I could state, "It's obvious that rain falls up." But does it?

So when the writers of the Declaration of Independence wrote what you quoted, they were stating their opinions, not facts. Whether you agree with them or disagree is also an opinion.

What is "Self-evident" to you may not be so to someone else.

Plus there is the ambiguity of the word "Creator". Who is this creator? and how exactly is it "self-evident" (as in, obvious to everyone) that one exists?

Well, back when that was written, there was no such thing as lifestyle choices. People all basically believed the same thing. Absolutism abounded. You've quoted an archaic document that expresses sentiments (ie, absolutism, universal belief in a Creator - the Christian God) that aren't as widespread today.

Point is, People have different perspectives and general beliefs of a time period change. People believed in self-evidence back then. Not as many people do now. Large claims need to be backed up by proof that is not dependent upon perception, proof that is tangible that everyone can agree upon.

The notion of something being self-evident is a simple idea. Too simple to work in real life.

RealityCheck said:

Dude. Read a book. That's the opening of the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

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Yeah, this is the preamble.

[SIZE=+1] We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.[/SIZE]

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And last time I checked, the Declaration actually holds little legal authority (I could be wrong).

The Declaration actually holds no legal authority. It would have if Britain had recognized it as such and recognized the colonies as a sovereign entity entitled to self-rule.

AV1611VET said:

PREAMBLE TO THE U.S. CONSTITUTION

• We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

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Aside: as already noted, that isn't from the constitution. Did you copy this from some source, and if so, what?

The important part of the "self evident" bit is probably the "We hold...". That is, it isn't stating a conclusion that is objective, but one that seems obvious to the people who wrote it. It probably is also worth pointing out, incidentally, that when they said "...all men are created equal..." they didn't actually mean it.

Gracchus said:

The "homousion vs. homoiusion" controversy rocked the early Christian Church and tore it apart. It was whether , insofar as spirit goes, the Son was of the same substance as the Father (homousion) or of a similar substance to the Father (homoiusion). Now both sides admitted that spirit is insubstantial, but they nevertheless, quarreled, fought, excommunicated, anathematized, and damned each other over the matter of the iota although some could not see that it made an iota of real difference.

In case you're interested, after the intervention of the Roman government, and a judicious use of lash and stake, it was decided in favor of the homousion folks. That controversy is one of several that was settled by the adoption of the Nicene Creed.

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Heh. Funny. I'd like to point out that the denomination that I belonged to when I was a Christian was formed out of a combination of disagreements over the clergy charging for premium seating, and slavery. That's why they called themselves Free Methodists.

RealityCheck said:

Dude. Read a book. That's the opening of the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

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I knew that ---

AV1611VET said:

PREAMBLE TO THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

• We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

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yes jefferson and the other founders believed this, whats your point?
some of them were christians and some where not, so if you are talking about the creator it could mean anyone they believe in
i find it funny that you think some people saying it makes it true, they believe it, i could believe they are wrong neither is true by that virtue