The Sabbath, our SIGN during the end?

freeindeed2 · Dec 3, 2007

RND said:
Yes, I think I have stated that on nummerous occaisions.

Just checking. Many do not realize that the covenant made with Israel was the 10 C's (at the very least the 10 C's).

Um, actually not following the ways of the Lord did indeed condemn Israel.

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Lev 26:14 ¶ But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;

Lev 26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, [but] that ye break my covenant:

Lev 26:16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

Lev 26:17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.

So the '10' DID condemn Israel (witnessed against them)...

Um, the Bible?

The Bible tells you that there was NOT a copy of the 10 C's in the 'Book of the Law' placed beside the ark of the covenant? Did they have to open the ark to read the 10 C's?

Nope, it all came from Jesus.

Wasn't Jesus born of the virgin Mary? Was Jesus 'Jesus' before he was Jesus? Or was he the Word? Didn't the Word become flesh later (at his immaculate conception)?

No, Jesus was the flame that did not consume the bush.

You know what I meant.

So Jesus (not God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit) is symbolized by the flame?

RND · Dec 3, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
So the '10' DID condemn Israel (witnessed against them)...

No. The 10 Commandments pointed out sin. The 'witness' against sin committed against the 10 Commandments was the Mosaic law.

The Bible tells you that there was NOT a copy of the 10 C's in the 'Book of the Law' placed beside the ark of the covenant? Did they have to open the ark to read the 10 C's?

No, I'm certain they didn't need to do that, in that they were written down a different way.

Deu 6:6 ¶ And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Deuteronomy 5 lists the 10 commandments in order.

Wasn't Jesus born of the virgin Mary?

Born through the virgin Mary.

Was Jesus 'Jesus' before he was Jesus?

No, he was called Michael.

Or was he the Word? Didn't the Word become flesh later (at his immaculate conception)?

The Word has always been with God. So the Word was before He was born.

You know what I meant.

So Jesus (not God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit) is symbolized by the flame?

I believe that to be true.

RND · Dec 3, 2007

Eila said:
Mark 12 "28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" 29Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these.""

These principals were part of the Old Testament correct?

On what basis do you draw the conclusion that the laws of the new covenant are the words of the old covenant?

The Bible?

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

What texts do you base this separation on?

Um, it can't be just a few text here and there but whole books and chapters.

See Exodus 21 to 24. See all of Deuteronomy, chapters 5 and 6 specifically

According to Matthew 5 the whole law would stand until all was fulfilled. Do you agree that even the 10C found it fulfillment in Jesus?

No. Common sense tells us that murder was just as wrong the day before Jesus died as it was the day after He died. Of course, this would hold true with any of the other 10 Commandments.

That would be a very shallow way to express love.

Indeed, but at the time this was the best that the violent and unforgiving nature of the world at that time could handle. It changed later when God sent His own Son to give us the picture of what God's love and the nature and character of God was really all about.

The moral command to love one another is based on one of the 10 commandments?

No. it is based on the 6 principals prescribed in the 10 Commandments.

workman · Dec 3, 2007

Here is something to think about as scripture gives light to scripture: (anything in parenthesis is my interpretation and emphasis in capitol letters is mine to draw attention to the wording being used.)
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Luke 2:14
"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests."

(God's favor/peace rests with those who trust in Jesus and are found "in Christ" for example....)

1 Peter 4:14
If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.

PROPHESY:
______________________
Isaiah 11:10
In that day the Root of Jesse (Jesus) will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest (eternal rest/heaven) will be glorious.

ANNOUNCEMENT BY JESUS:
___________________________

Matthew 11:28-29
"Come to ME, (The Christ- The Son of God-God's place of Rest)
all you who are weary and burdened, and
I (Jesus) will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and
you will find rest for your souls. (eternal rest/peace promised thus giving the soul rest on earth because of this knowledge of what will come in heaven.)

BUT...IT WAS PROPHESIED THEY WOULD REJECT CHRIST IN WHOM WAS FOUND GOD's REST:
______________________________________________________

Isaiah 30:15
This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.

Isaiah 28:11-13

11 Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues
God will speak to this people,

12 to whom he said,
"This is the resting place, let the weary rest";
and, "This is the place of repose"
but they would not listen.

13 So then, the word of the LORD to them will become:
Do and do, do and do,
rule on rule, rule on rule;
a little here, a little there
so that they will go and fall backward,
be injured and snared and captured.

GOD PUTS FORTH THE QUESTION THEN:
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Isaiah 66:1
This is what the LORD says: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be? (Good Question!)

Matthew 11:28-29
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

WHAT WAS PURPOSE OF THE SABBATH COMMAND?
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Mark 2
27Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

WHAT WAS JESUS COMMUNICATING (PERHAPS TO FORESHADOW) WHEN HE HEALED PEOPLE ON THE SABBATH?
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Luke 6

Lord of the Sabbath

1One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
3Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." 5Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

{In heaven no one will be hungry: God provides food during his eternal rest)

6On another Sabbath he went into the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was shriveled. 7The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath. 8But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Get up and stand in front of everyone." So he got up and stood there.

9Then Jesus said to them, "I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?"

10He looked around at them all, and then said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He did so, and his hand was completely restored. 11But they were furious and began to discuss with one another what they might do to Jesus.

{In heaven those who are lame will be restored to perfection in God's eternal rest}

Luke 13
10On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. 12When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity." 13Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
14Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue ruler said to the people, "There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath."

15The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water? 16Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?"

17When he said this, all his opponents were humiliated, but the people were delighted with all the wonderful things he was doing.

{Those with diseases will be forever cured by Jesus when they enter His eternal rest}

John 5
5One who was there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked him, "Do you want to get well?" 7"Sir," the invalid replied, "I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me."

8Then Jesus said to him, "Get up! Pick up your mat and walk." 9At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked.
The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, 10and so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, "It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat."

11But he replied, "The man who made me well said to me, 'Pick up your mat and walk.' "

16So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

{Those who are crippled will walk again in heaven as they rest with Jesus}

John 7:23
Now if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath?

John 9:14
Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man's eyes was a Sabbath.

{The blind shall see when they get to heaven}

John 9:16
Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath." But others asked, "How can a sinner do such miraculous signs?" So they were divided.

THE APOSTLE PAUL CONFIRMS THIS FULFILLMENT:
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Colossians 2
8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

CONCLUDING VERSE (KEY VERSE) BECAUSE OF WHAT WAS SAID ABOVE:
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16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

AGAIN THE :SABBATH REST/INHERITANCE SPOKEN AS SPIRITUAL FULFILLMENT IN HEAVEN THROUGH TRUST IN CHRIST:
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Hebrews 3
5Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future. 6But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.'
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' "

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:

"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Hebrews 4

A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God

1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

"So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' "

And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words:

"And on the seventh day God rested from all his work."

5And again in the passage above he says,

"They shall never enter my rest."

6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:

"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts."

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

PROPHESY THAT JESUS WILL BE THAT "YEHOSHUA" WHO WILL GIVE US PEACE AND REST:
______________________________________________________

Joshua 11:23
So Joshua took the entire land, just as the LORD had directed Moses, and he gave it as an inheritance to Israel according to their tribal divisions. Then the land had rest from war.

freeindeed2 · Dec 3, 2007

RND said:
No. The 10 Commandments pointed out sin. The 'witness' against sin committed against the 10 Commandments was the Mosaic law.

So, the 10 C's command 'Thou shall not kill'. And then someone killed someone. The command (part of the covenant) that they vowed to keep does not condemn them? The 10 C's need the book of the law in order to condemn?

By that reasoning, since the book of the law no longer (according to the SDA church) can condemn, does that mean that the 10 C's cannot stand against us? (i.e. you can kill someone and NOT be condemned since the 'Mosaic law' has been fulfilled?)

No, I'm certain they didn't need to do that, in that they were written down a different way.

Deu 6:6 ¶ And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Deuteronomy 5 lists the 10 commandments in order.

If the 10 C's were already written in their hearts (thus they did NOT need to open the ark to read them), then why the need for a new covenant? SDAism maintains that the new covenant is the same as the old covenant (basically) except that the law is written in the heart. If it was already written on their hearts then there would be no need of a new covenant where they are written on their hearts (and this is assuming that the law written on the hearts in the new covenant is the 10 C's written on stone as a covenant to Israel).

Born through the virgin Mary.

LOL. Whichever you wish. I can live with either.

No, he was called Michael.

I don't think this thread was intended for the whole Jesus/angel debate.

The Word has always been with God. So the Word was before He was born.

You know what I meant.

Two can play the semantics game.

I believe that to be true.

On what grounds do you believe Jesus/Word was the flame?

Eila · Dec 3, 2007

RND said:
These principals were part of the Old Testament correct?

The entire law and the prophets.

RND said:
The Bible?

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Do you base it all on this verse? Jesus doesn't change. I wasn't talking about Jesus, but the law. Do you believe all 613 commands in the law are the same yesterday, today, and forever?

RND said:
Um, it can't be just a few text here and there but whole books and chapters.

See Exodus 21 to 24. See all of Deuteronomy, chapters 5 and 6 specifically

I see the 10 commandments given and then more commands given. Do you base this separation on God speaking the 10C directly to the nation of Israel versus God speaking directly to Moses?

RND said:
No. Common sense tells us that murder was just as wrong the day before Jesus died as it was the day after He died. Of course, this would hold true with any of the other 10 Commandments.

If you don't believe the 10Cs were fulfilled then you should be keeping all 613 commands according to Matthew 5. Not one portion of the law would pass away until all was fulfilled.

Of course murder was wrong in the new covenant, but not because of a command given to Israel.

RND said:
Indeed, but at the time this was the best that the violent and unforgiving nature of the world at that time could handle. It changed later when God sent His own Son to give us the picture of what God's love and the nature and character of God was really all about.

If Jesus is the standard of love then why would anyone focus on what was given to those who did not understand love? Wouldn't it make more sense to go directly to Jesus?

RND said:
No. it is based on the 6 principals prescribed in the 10 Commandments.

So the command to love one another found in the Book of the Law is based on what you refer to as "the best that the violent and unforgiving nature of the world at that time could handle."?

RND · Dec 3, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
So, the 10 C's command 'Thou shall not kill'. And then someone killed someone. The command (part of the covenant) that they vowed to keep does not condemn them? The 10 C's need the book of the law in order to condemn?

The commandment agaianst a particular behavior was found in the 10 Commandments. The condemnation ans subsequesnt punishment was found in the book of the law.

By that reasoning, since the book of the law no longer (according to the SDA church) can condemn, does that mean that the 10 C's cannot stand against us? (i.e. you can kill someone and NOT be condemned since the 'Mosaic law' has been fulfilled?)

Unfortunately, I suppose one could come up with that conclusion but now, since the coming of the new covenant, one is condemned based on the fact that these laws are now written on everyone's heart.

If the 10 C's were already written in their hearts (thus they did NOT need to open the ark to read them), then why the need for a new covenant?

Yhe 10 commandments weren't written on their hearts but on tables of stone. God did not place them in the heart at this time.

SDAism maintains that the new covenant is the same as the old covenant (basically) except that the law is written in the heart.

And here's the difference: The law is written in the heart whereas before it was not.

If it was already written on their hearts then there would be no need of a new covenant where they are written on their hearts (and this is assuming that the law written on the hearts in the new covenant is the 10 C's written on stone as a covenant to Israel).

This is true, but we know that at the time the law was given the law was written on stone not flesh.

I don't think this thread was intended for the whole Jesus/angel debate.

You brought the question up, I just answered your question.

Two can play the semantics game.

I wasn't playing semantics.

You asked, "Was Jesus the burning bush?"

I responded, "No, Jesus was the flame that did not consume the bush."

What do you feel was 'semantical' in this exchange?

On what grounds do you believe Jesus/Word was the flame?

Flames make light. That light pierces the darkness.

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

workman · Dec 3, 2007

INTERESTING FACTS ABOUT SUNDAY IN THE BIBLE:

1) Mark 16:9 (Jesus Rose on First Day of the Week)

When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

2) John 20:19 (Declared Peace to his Disciples on this day/Resurrection day)

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

3) Acts 2:42 (The early church after Pentecost)

They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

Acts 20:7 (Sunday Observance noted among believers)

On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

Revelation 1:10 (John's prophetic revelation)

On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

freeindeed2 · Dec 3, 2007

RND said:
The commandment agaianst a particular behavior was found in the 10 Commandments. The condemnation ans subsequesnt punishment was found in the book of the law.

Unfortunately, I suppose one could come up with that conclusion but now, since the coming of the new covenant, one is condemned based on the fact that these laws are now written on everyone's heart.

Then (making the assumption that the new covenant is the exact same thing as the old covenant/10 C's only written in a different place), without the book of the law to condemn and punish, how can we possibly be condemned? Were the condemnations and punishments of the old covenant also recorded somewhere in the new covenant, or just the 10 C's?

And...can the law no longer condemn us then?

Yhe 10 commandments weren't written on their hearts but on tables of stone. God did not place them in the heart at this time.

But now we have the 10 C's in our hearts?

And here's the difference: The law is written in the heart whereas before it was not.

This is true, but we know that at the time the law was given the law was written on stone not flesh.

And you can show that the 'law' written on the heart is the covenant made with Israel?

You brought the question up, I just answered your question.

I didn't bring up the arcangel thing.

I wasn't playing semantics.

You asked, "Was Jesus the burning bush?"

I responded, "No, Jesus was the flame that did not consume the bush."

What do you feel was 'semantical' in this exchange?

It wasn't a 'feeling'.

Flames make light. That light pierces the darkness.

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Nice 'dance'. I thought we weren't supposed to do that!?

Off to bed...

RND · Dec 3, 2007

Eila said:
The entire law and the prophets.

So then you agree that "Love God with all your heart, mind, soul..." and "Love thy neighbor as thyself" are principals of the Ten ommandments then?

Do you base it all on this verse? Jesus doesn't change. I wasn't talking about Jesus, but the law.

No there are others. Um, who made the law if it wasn't Jesus?

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Do you believe all 613 commands in the law are the same yesterday, today, and forever?

No, because some of those laws were ceremonial that prophesied the coming of the Messiah. Once Messiah came and was sacrificed then those laws were unnecessary.

I see the 10 commandments given and then more commands given. Do you base this separation on God speaking the 10C directly to the nation of Israel versus God speaking directly to Moses?

No.

If you don't believe the 10Cs were fulfilled then you should be keeping all 613 commands according to Matthew 5. Not one portion of the law would pass away until all was fulfilled.

Well, obviously just because I believe that the 10 commandments haven't been done away with doesn't mean that I need to sacrifice a lamb if I sin, God already did that for me, nor do I need to partake in stoning adulteresses either.

Of course murder was wrong in the new covenant, but not because of a command given to Israel.

Uh, you're kidding right?

"Thou shalt not kill' ring a bell?

If Jesus is the standard of love then why would anyone focus on what was given to those who did not understand love? Wouldn't it make more sense to go directly to Jesus?

Sure. But just because I have a personal relationship with the traffic court judge doesn't give me the right to speed whenever I want does it?

The speed limit signs still apply to you and me right?

So the command to love one another found in the Book of the Law is based on what you refer to as "the best that the violent and unforgiving nature of the world at that time could handle."?

No, I didn't say that.

First off, the admonishment to love one another and to love God isn't specifcally found in the Mosaic law. Second, I was referring to the specific 10 Commandments and not the general principals of them.

I said, "But can we not infer that by NOT killing our neighbor or coveting their goods, or fornicating with their spouse or bearing false witness against them that we work toward loving them?"

You responded, "That would be a very shallow way to express love. "

I said, "Indeed, but at the time this was the best that the violent and unforgiving nature of the world at that time could handle. It changed later when God sent His own Son to give us the picture of what God's love and the nature and character of God was really all about."

workman · Dec 3, 2007

The Mark: Right hand/forehead verses

REVELATION 13:15-17
He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
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Ok, So that means that one may hunger if one can't buy food because one lacks the mark on the right hand or forehead. But what does God say...
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EXODUS 13:8-9 (Passover Observance Instructions)

8 On that day tell your son, 'I do this because of what the LORD did for me when I came out of Egypt.' 9 This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that the law of the LORD is to be on your lips. For the LORD brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand.
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WHY? WHAT LESSON DID THEY LEARN?
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DEUTERONOMY 8:3
3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD .

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EVEN JESUS PASSED THIS TEST FOR OUR EXAMPLE:
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Jesus answered, It is written: Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. [ Deut. 8:3]

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JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD = BREAD FROM HEAVEN
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John 6:33
For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.

John 6:35
Then Jesus declared, I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.

John 6:48
I am the bread of life.

John 6:51 (New meaning for Passover emblems)
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

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PROMISE TO THE ONE WHO OVERCOMES:
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Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.

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LEARNING FROM THE PAST
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Psalm 81
8 "Hear, O my people, and I will warn you  
if you would but listen to me, O Israel!
9 You shall have no foreign god among you;  
you shall not bow down to an alien god.
10 I am the LORD your God,  
who brought you up out of Egypt.  
Open wide your mouth and I will fill it.
11 "But my people would not listen to me;  
Israel would not submit to me.
12 So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts  
to follow their own devices.
13 "If my people would but listen to me,  
if Israel would follow my ways,
14 how quickly would I subdue their enemies  
and turn my hand against their foes!
15 Those who hate the LORD would cringe before him,  
and their punishment would last forever.
16 But you would be fed with the finest of wheat;  
with honey from the rock I would satisfy you."

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JESUS REASSURES US TO TRUST HIM
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Matthew 6:
25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

RND · Dec 3, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
Then (making the assumption that the new covenant is the exact same thing as the old covenant/10 C's only written in a different place), without the book of the law to condemn and punish, how can we possibly be condemned?

By not accepting the free grace and mercy offered as part of the atoning sacrifice of Christ Jesus. Theology 101.

Were the condemnations and punishments of the old covenant also recorded somewhere in the new covenant, or just the 10 C's?

Yes. In the heart, i.e. conscienseness.

And...can the law no longer condemn us then?

The law does now as it did then, it points out sin ti the sinner.

But now we have the 10 C's in our hearts?

Indeed.

And you can show that the 'law' written on the heart is the covenant made with Israel?

Yes.

Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I didn't bring up the arcangel thing.

You asked what Jesus' name was before He was Jesus. I merely answered this question.

It wasn't a 'feeling'.

What was 'semantical' in this exchange?

Nice 'dance'.

Nice dance? That's uncalled for and unnecessary. I have been nothing but kind to you during this exchange.

Since when is using scripture to clearly show that Jesus is light and that flames make light a dance? Do you have a different interpretation you'd care to share?

I thought we weren't supposed to do that!?

You mean use scripture to make a point?

workman · Dec 3, 2007

TRUST IN GOD; TRUST IN HIS WORD TO PROVIDE AND REFUSE THE MARK:

Genesis 25:29
Once when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau came in from the open country, famished.

Genesis 25:32
"Look, I am about to die," Esau said. "What good is the birthright to me?"

Genesis 25:34
Then Jacob gave Esau some bread and some lentil stew. He ate and drank, and then got up and left. So Esau despised his birthright.

Hebrews 12:15-17

15See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears.

Psalm 17:14
O LORD, by your hand save me from such men,
from men of this world whose reward is in this life.
You still the hunger of those you cherish;
their sons have plenty,
and they store up wealth for their children.

Psalm 34:8-10
8 Taste and see that the LORD is good;
blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.

9 Fear the LORD, you his saints,
for those who fear him lack nothing.

10 The lions may grow weak and hungry,
but those who seek the LORD lack no good thing.

--------------------------------
SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS:
--------------------------------
Isaiah 8:19-22
19 When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?

20 To the law and to the testimony! (THE WORD OF GOD: 2 TESTAMENTS)

If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn. 21 Distressed and hungry, they (not us) will roam through the land; when they are famished, they will become enraged and, looking upward, will curse their king and their God. 22 Then they will look toward the earth and see only distress and darkness and fearful gloom, and they will be thrust into utter darkness.

freeindeed2 · Dec 3, 2007

RND said:
By not accepting the free grace and mercy offered as part of the atoning sacrifice of Christ Jesus. Theology 101.

Yes. In the heart, i.e. conscienseness.

The law does now as it did then, it points out sin ti the sinner.

Indeed.

Yes.

Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You asked what Jesus' name was before He was Jesus. I merely answered this question.

What was 'semantical' in this exchange?

Wow...

Nice dance? That's uncalled for and unnecessary. I have been nothing but kind to you during this exchange.

Since when is using scripture to clearly show that Jesus is light and that flames make light a dance? Do you have a different interpretation you'd care to share?

It wasn't meant as an insult. Sorry if it came off that way. It was meant to invoke a humorous emotional response. Apparently it didn't work! :doh:

Those who aren't attempting to defend man-made organizations with their second sources of authority for truth are free to accept what the Bible ALONE says without bias, and as led by the authority of the Holy Spirit ALONE.

You mean use scripture to make a point?

From my perspective I would have to say it's misusing Scripture to make a point. Sorry. But your agenda is clear, even if you don't realize it.

Sophia7 · Dec 3, 2007

RND said:
freeindeed2 said:

The ark of the __________? (What was that word again???)

Click to expand...

Covenant.

And the 10 C's were IN it, right?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Did the 10 C's witness against the COI?

Click to expand...

No. The book of the law did this.

Were the 10 C's (a copy or two, anyway) in the "book of the law" which was a witness against the COI?

Click to expand...

No, not specifically. Exodus 20 deals with the 10 Commandments. Exodus 21 to 24 deals with the ordinances dictated by God to Moses. The 10 Commandments are not listed therein.

RND said:
freeindeed2 said:

So the '10' DID condemn Israel (witnessed against them)...

Click to expand...

No. The 10 Commandments pointed out sin. The 'witness' against sin committed against the 10 Commandments was the Mosaic law.

The Bible tells you that there was NOT a copy of the 10 C's in the 'Book of the Law' placed beside the ark of the covenant? Did they have to open the ark to read the 10 C's?

Click to expand...

No, I'm certain they didn't need to do that, in that they were written down a different way.

Deu 6:6 ¶ And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Deuteronomy 5 lists the 10 commandments in order.

You really shouldn't quote Deuteronomy here. It doesn't support your argument that the Ten Commandments were not included in the Book of the Law that was placed beside the Ark, as well as being written on stone by God and kept inside the Ark. You missed the point when I quoted these texts before, so take a look at them again:

DT 4:1 Hear now, O Israel, the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Follow them so that you may live and may go in and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.
_____________________________________________________

DT 4:44 This is the law Moses set before the Israelites. 45 These are the stipulations, decrees and laws Moses gave them when they came out of Egypt 46 and were in the valley near Beth Peor east of the Jordan, in the land of Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon and was defeated by Moses and the Israelites as they came out of Egypt. 47 They took possession of his land and the land of Og king of Bashan, the two Amorite kings east of the Jordan. 48 This land extended from Aroer on the rim of the Arnon Gorge to Mount Siyon (that is, Hermon), 49 and included all the Arabah east of the Jordan, as far as the Sea of the Arabah, below the slopes of Pisgah.

DT 5:1 Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, O Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:

DT 5:6 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

DT 5:7 "You shall have no other gods before me.

DT 5:8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

DT 5:11 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

DT 5:12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

DT 5:16 "Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

DT 5:17 "You shall not murder.

DT 5:18 "You shall not commit adultery.

DT 5:19 "You shall not steal.

DT 5:20 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

DT 5:21 "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor's house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

DT 5:22 These are the commandments the LORD proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.

DT 5:23 When you heard the voice out of the darkness, while the mountain was ablaze with fire, all the leading men of your tribes and your elders came to me. 24 And you said, "The LORD our God has shown us his glory and his majesty, and we have heard his voice from the fire. Today we have seen that a man can live even if God speaks with him. 25 But now, why should we die? This great fire will consume us, and we will die if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any longer. 26 For what mortal man has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? 27 Go near and listen to all that the LORD our God says. Then tell us whatever the LORD our God tells you. We will listen and obey."

DT 5:28 The LORD heard you when you spoke to me and the LORD said to me, "I have heard what this people said to you. Everything they said was good. 29 Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever!

DT 5:30 "Go, tell them to return to their tents. 31 But you stay here with me so that I may give you all the commands, decrees and laws you are to teach them to follow in the land I am giving them to possess."

DT 5:32 So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left. 33 Walk in all the way that the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.

DT 6:1 These are the commands, decrees and laws the LORD your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, 2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the LORD your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life. 3 Hear, O Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the LORD, the God of your fathers, promised you.

DT 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

DT 6:10 When the LORD your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you--a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, 11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant--then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the LORD, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
______________________________________________________

DT 31:24 After Moses finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end, 25 he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD: 26 "Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.

Where did the Law begin and end in Deuteronomy?

woobadooba · Dec 3, 2007

I think it is safe to say that perhaps it's not so much the Sabbath day itself that identifies our relationship to God as it is the manifestation of the presence of the Holy Spirit in our character which discloses whether we are truly walking with Christ or not.

Of course, this will be made known in how we keep God's commands. And since the Sabbath day is a command of God, like any other command of His, we are to honor it if we are to show that we are His children.

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. (Eph 5:1-7)

RND · Dec 3, 2007

Sophia7 said:
You really shouldn't quote Deuteronomy here. It doesn't support your argument that the Ten Commandments were not included in the Book of the Law that was placed beside the Ark, as well as being written on stone by God and kept inside the Ark. You missed the point when I quoted these texts before, so take a look at them again:

Click to expand...

Sure it does. It just doesn't fit your paradigm Sophia.

Deu 4:44 This is the law Moses set before the Israelites. 45 These are the stipulations, decrees and laws Moses gave them when they came out of Egypt

When did Moses give the Commandments to the people? When they came out of Egypt?

When Moses gave the word of the law to the people here in Deuteronomy they were no longer in Horeb, as you were kind enough to point out. Furthermore the actual book of the law was not presented

Where did the Law begin in Deuteronomy?

Click to expand...

As a written book? Not until Chapter 30.

The Ten Commandments were originally spoken to the people by God Himself on Mt. Sinai. Those tablets contained the very words God spoke to the COI.

Deu 9:10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them [was written] according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

RND · Dec 3, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
Wow...

I agree. Hard to answer.

It wasn't meant as an insult. Sorry if it came off that way. It was meant to invoke a humorous emotional response. Apparently it didn't work!

Apology accepted. Maybe in the future when making an attempt at being funny you might think about including one of those cute little emoticons to help you better express your thought and mood!

Those who aren't attempting to defend man-made organizations with their second sources of authority for truth are free to accept what the Bible ALONE says without bias, and as led by the authority of the Holy Spirit ALONE.

That's a good thought.

Do you agree that it several places in the Bible God is seen as a pilar of fire to light the way in the darkness?

Exd 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Hoe come Moses wasn't burnt by theis pillar of fire when it engulfed Mt. Sinai?

Exd 19:17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.

Exd 19:18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

From my perspective I would have to say it's misusing Scripture to make a point. Sorry. But your agenda is clear, even if you don't realize it.

Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

freeindeed2 · Dec 3, 2007

RND said:
I agree. Hard to answer.

LOL. No. I've just been down this road enough to recognize the slippery slopes.

I've spent quite a bit of time discussing beliefs with LDS's that show up at my door. Now I have a sheet of paper that I've compiled just for such an occasion. It always proves to be a 'slippery' conversation. Much the same when discussing this topic on the forums here.

Apology accepted. Maybe in the future when making an attempt at being funny you might think about including one of those cute little emoticons to help you better express your thought and mood!

No prob! It was late and I was passed ready to go to bed. Most everything I post is done so in a light-hearted way, at least based on my perceptions on this end. I realize that that is lost sometimes because of the forum. If we were talking face-to-face though, I would bet you'd be smiling with me as we discussed this. I don't see the point in getting mad or upset about it.

(I'm not really mad or upset...) :sorry:

That's a good thought.

Do you agree that it several places in the Bible God is seen as a pilar of fire to light the way in the darkness?

Exd 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Yes. Where are the other places where God presents himself as a pillar of fire, or are you simply referring to the same thing only recorded in other places?

Hoe come Moses wasn't burnt by theis pillar of fire when it engulfed Mt. Sinai?

Exd 19:17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.

Exd 19:18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

It wouldn't have been too prudent of God to burn the messenger of his covenant to Israel. However, his face did glow so brightly for a time. In fact, he put a veil over his face so that they wouldn't see the glory fading away. So, the experience did alter Moses physically for a time.

Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

After almost 40 years of Adventism it's not difficult to see.

I wonder what it would be like if we were ONLY entitled to have ONE opinion?

Eila · Dec 3, 2007

RND said:
So then you agree that "Love God with all your heart, mind, soul..." and "Love thy neighbor as thyself" are principals of the Ten ommandments then?

No, all the law and the prophets.

RND said:
No there are others. Um, who made the law if it wasn't Jesus?

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

No, because some of those laws were ceremonial that prophesied the coming of the Messiah. Once Messiah came and was sacrificed then those laws were unnecessary.

Here is where I don't see the connection. You say that Jesus made the law and since Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever the law stands forever. Yet in the next section you say that some laws that Jesus made were unnecessary after He died. Do you believe that God gave the whole torah?

RND said:
No.

Then what do you base this separation on?

RND said:
Well, obviously just because I believe that the 10 commandments haven't been done away with doesn't mean that I need to sacrifice a lamb if I sin, God already did that for me, nor do I need to partake in stoning adulteresses either.

What part of the law did Jesus not fulfill?

How do you reconcile that part of the law was fulfilled and part was not according to Matthew 5?

" 17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

RND said:
Uh, you're kidding right?

"Thou shalt not kill' ring a bell?

The command in the new covenant is to love. Love does no wrong to one's neighbor.

RND said:
Sure. But just because I have a personal relationship with the traffic court judge doesn't give me the right to speed whenever I want does it?

The speed limit signs still apply to you and me right?

Not sure of your analogy here.

RND said:
No, I didn't say that.

First off, the admonishment to love one another and to love God isn't specifcally found in the Mosaic law.

I disagree. Jesus was quoting the 2 greatest commands.

Lev 19 "17'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. 18'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.
19'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together."

Deut 6 ""Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
5"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."

How are these not part of the Book of the Law?

RND said:
Second, I was referring to the specific 10 Commandments and not the general principals of them.

I said, "But can we not infer that by NOT killing our neighbor or coveting their goods, or fornicating with their spouse or bearing false witness against them that we work toward loving them?"

You responded, "That would be a very shallow way to express love. "

I said, "Indeed, but at the time this was the best that the violent and unforgiving nature of the world at that time could handle. It changed later when God sent His own Son to give us the picture of what God's love and the nature and character of God was really all about."

Jesus said all the law and the prophets hang of those commands not just the 10 commandments. If the 10Cs are an expression of the principle of love and therefore binding how are the rest of the law and the prophets any different?

The Sabbath, our SIGN during the end?

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