Iglesia Ni Cristo Replies

Originally posted by OldShepherd
There is a huge difference between being "altered", the implication being "false", and being translated correctly and efficiently into another language, supplying words not required in the original to make a more grammatical reading in the target language, Greek to English, in this case. As Louis has indicated by an example from Spanish. You do know the difference don't you Kain?

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Gosh, your a little slow. Let's see, the first time I said 'where the text is altered to make more English sense. But that wasn't good enough for you so I clarified by saying 'the structure needs to be altered to make more sense in English.' Which is essentially the same thing as your saying, but your too busy trying to make me look bad, so you press the point.


I'll just link to a site that puts it the same way.
Maybe you can write them a complaint letter.

http://www.innvista.com/scriptures/versions/clnt.htm

The word order and sentence structure of the early Greek manuscripts are followed more in this version than in most others. However, when needed, the Greek sentence structure is altered in order to achieve acceptable English.

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Originally posted by edpobre

Do you REALLY believe this? Ed

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A research study on Iglesia Ni Cristo

By: Chris Anna




Saved By the Church?

The Iglesia Ni Cristo claims to be 'the only true church which Christ Himself started. This
church was named after Christ, by Christ Himself. If you do not belong to this particular church, you
cannot be saved, since this church alone is the sheepfold of Christ. Let's see what the INC itself says
about this:

"The Church And Salvation
The Iglesia Ni Cristo believes that membership in the Church of Christ is
the only means to salvation, for all men have sinned, hence, all of mankind should
die in the lake of fire, the wages of sin (Rom 5:12; 6:23; Rev 20:14). For a man to
be saved, he should enter in by Christ, by becoming a member of His body or
church (Jn 10:9; I Cor 12:27; Col 1:18) because it is His Church that Christ will
save (Eph 5:23). Christ will not save anyone outside the Church of Christ because
it would be against the law of God. His law requires that sinners should pay for
their own sin (Dt. 24:16; Rev. 20:14)."(1)
They say that a man enters in by Christ "by becoming a member of His body or church." This
is backwards! When Christ began preaching, He did not tell people to become members of His body
first as a means of salvation. He told Nicodemus that if a person is not born again, he will not see the
kingdom of God (Jn 3:3). He did not say, "unless one joins my church or my body he cannot see the
kingdom of God." Also He told Nicodemus, "For God so loved the world, that he gave His only
begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life (Jn 3:16, emphasis
added). That is what Jesus said in regard to salvation. He did not say, "?that whoever joins my
church or my sheepfold should not perish?" He told people to repent! He told the Apostles 'follow
me! He did not say, 'become a member!' Once you believe and follow Christ, you are then a part of
His flock spiritually, and then you would join a Bible-teaching church for learning, growth,
fellowship, etc, but the regeneration by God comes first. Yes, Jesus is the door to the sheepfold. But it is
by God's grace that we enter through that door by faith.

So, the church itself is not the way to salvation, but a person is a part of the sheepfold once he is
saved by God's grace. God knows who His sheep are and they are His chosen ones. They are drawn
to Christ by God the Father and they believe when they hear the Word. For example, after Peter gave
his great sermon in Acts chapter 2, three thousand, who had received what he said, were added. So,
they believed first, from hearing the message of the Gospel, and then they were added to the
membership. Remember what Romans 10:17 says: "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word
of Christ." When Christ opens the ears and the truth of the Gospel is heard, the people believe.
Verse 47 of Acts chapter 2 says, "and the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were
being saved." It does not say, "the Lord was saving day by day those who were being added!" Yet
the INC teaches, "Those who will be saved on Judgment Day are the ones added by the Lord to the
Church. (2)"

Let us not confuse the order here. Being added to church membership does not save you. Rather,
Ephesians2:8 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is
the gift of God." Once again, here is another "not": Ephesians 2:8 does not say, "for by means of the
church you have been saved?" The Bible is clear on the means of salvation: it is by God's grace, not
by church membership.

Now, the INC not only claims that church membership is the way to salvation, but it must be
membership in the INC! Membership in just any church that names the name of Christ is not the true way
to salvation, as shown in the INC publication, God Message, "Hence, to become a member of just any
variety of religion that worships God and glorifies Jesus as Lord is not guarantee enough for a man to
enter the heavenly kingdom."(3) Why not Baptist, Reformed, Presbyterian, etc? Because we believe
that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. According to the INC, this and
other Scriptural, Biblical truths make these churches false religions! As one INC writer says,



"The principal and foremost belief of the Protestants is that salvation can be
achieved by faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ; there is no need for church
membership." (4) "The faith-alone-in-Christ concept is one of the basic tenets of
Protestantism and the chief weapon by which the self-professed "Born-Again Christians"
belittle the importance of the Church. This concept is unscriptural. Again, this and
many more Protestant doctrines such as their belief in the Trinity and the divinity of
Christ, and their disunity and factionalism dismiss them and "Born-Again
Christians" as false religions for their adherence to unscriptural doctrines."(5)

Protestant churches have been dismissed by the INC as false religions because of doctrines that
are Scriptural and true! So, according to the INC, what is the true church? We'll let them answer:



"The problem or issue today is that there are various preachers claiming to belong
to the true Church, thus causing people to be confused. But there would be
absolutely no problem if we would all agree with and accept the teachings of the Holy
Scriptures. Which church, then, will Christ save? Apostle Paul teaches:
'?Christ is the head of the church and He is the saviour of the body.' Eph. 5:23
[KJV])

And He is the head of the body, the church.' (Col. 1:18 Ibid)

The Church, which is Christ's body, He being the head thereof, is the one which
Christ will save. What is the name of the church which Christ considers as Hid
Body and what assures its salvation?

'Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy
Spirit has appointed you overseers, the feed the Church of Christ which He has
purchased with His blood.' (Acts 20:28, Lamsa)

The name of the Church, which is assured of salvation because it was purchased
by the precious blood of Christ, is the Church of Christ." (6)


It goes without saying that Christ will save His Church! This gets confusing when we see
that the INC appears to be telling the truth, and yet they are misinterpreting the Scriptures to
limit the church of Christ to The "Church of Christ" (or "Iglesia Ni Cristo"). There is a
subtle twist here. Yes there is such a thing as the church of Christ in the Bible. The body of
believers is referred to as the church of Christ Because it came from Christ and it belongs to
Christ. If it had come from Buddha, it would have been referred to as the church of Buddha.
The significance of the reference, "church of Christ,' means a body, or congregation, of
people belonging to Christ. The name could be Baptist, Reformed, etc, but only true
believers from those churches are really part of the body of Christ. Members of various
denominations could belong to Christ because it is the relationship that the sheep have with the
Shepherd that counts! The Shepherd knows His sheep and He calls them by name. They hear
His voice and they follow Him (see John chapter 10). That is the evidence of those who are
members of Christ's body; not that they belong, as members, to a church called "Church of
Christ".

Here is a really simple example. If Jim buys a car, then it belongs to Jim, right? Even
though the name of the car is something other than "Jim's Car" (such as "Cadillac" etc) then
it is still Jim's car isn't it? It still belongs to Jim. If I say, "that's Jim's car," it does not
mean that I am saying the literal name of the car. It is simply a reference to whom the car
belongs. When the Bible says, "church of Christ" it is a reference to whom the church
belongs, and not necessarily the literal name of the Church. For example, the church is also
referred to by other names such as the church of God, the "Way" (Acts 9:2; 19:9), the flock,
etc. These are all references to the church that is Christ's. The INC is legalistic and wrong
in saying that the literal name of the church that Christ will save is the "Church of Christ,"
or Iglesia Ni Cristo.

Notes:
1. Santiago, Bienvenido C. "What We Believe and Why." God's Message, Special Issue, "Iglesia Ni Cristo, 25 Years In The West: All For God's Glory!", 1993, pp. 23-27
2. Catangay, Tomas C. "Are You On The True Path to Salvation?" God's Message, International Edition. April, 1997, Pg. 14
3. Bocabo, Antonio E. Jr. "On Choosing The True Religion." God's Message, October - December 1991, pg. 12
4. Ibid, Pg.13.
5. Ibid, Pg.13.
6. Catangay, Tomas C. "Are You On The True Path to Salvation?" God's Message, International Edition. April, 1997, Pg. 14

Iglesia Luring Method Exposed


This article will familiarize you with the basic method employed by Iglesia's leadership to lure and deceive members into its 'fold'.
Outline:
1. Method of Communication
2. Luring Formula
3. Conclusion

1. Method of Communication
Iglesia propagates its doctrines through print (Pasugo, 'God's Message' magazines), radio, television, and bible gatherings usually called Grand Evangelical Mission (GEM).
2. Luring Formula (commonly executed in 'bible studies' labelled 'Grand Evangelical Mission'(GEM)):




Luring Formula

(Note: Different from Manalo's doctrinal deception formula exposed in NICA's main article.)

Rattle the audience with what appear to be newfound anti-Catholic 'biblical teachings' or 'revelations'.
Deceive audience into thinking Felix Manalo had a 'special God-given spiritual insight' to 'unravel' or 'discover' these 'new teachings'.
Provide reason why joining INC rather than other religions is different and 'beneficial'.


Example:
Rattle-When attending a Grand Evangelical Mission (GEM), Iglesia opens by rattling its mostly Catholic visitors/audience with 'eye-opening' teachings that could be any of:

refutation of the 'Trinity' (by 'proving' Christ was biblically cited as being a man who made reference to God)
biblical forbiddance of 'worshipping of idols'
the 'mark of the beast--666' (allegedly the Catholic Pope)
Biblical passages are cited to 'prove.' This portion normally occupies atleast half of a bible study session.
Deceive--Once the audience is rattled, Iglesia attempts to deceive by falsely implying the teachings they've just heard (about 'worshipping of idols' and 'the mark of the beast') were discovered by Felix Manalo. This devious effect is accomplished by transitioning the topic from these 'eye-openers' to Felix Manalo's 'prophecy' as the 'last messenger' ascending from the 'Far East' (see NICA's main article for more details including topic of Christ's deity and Trinity).





Truth about Manalo



Prior to establishing Iglesia ni Cristo in 1914, Felix Manalo migrated from one religious group to another including Protestants and Adventists. Iglesia will sometimes mention this part of his history but will omit mentioning the fact that he merely learned the teachings on 'forbiddance of worshipping of idols' and the 'mark of the beast (666)' from these two groups. Instead, in apparent attempts to further deceive with the 'last messenger' doctrine, Felix Manalo is falsely portrayed as a man who had a 'special God-given spiritual insight' to discover these doctrines after being 'dissatisfied' with his former religions' teachings.

Beware of this utter deception! (On the other hand, now that it's exposed, you probably need not worry anymore.)


Benefit-To convince that the Iglesia religion is different and 'beneficial' to join, Iglesia continues with claims that Iglesia ni Cristo by Felix Manalo is the only Christian organization today whose members have a chance of attaining salvation on Christ's 'second coming'. This portion is normally integrated with the previous step which covers any doctrines and 'prophecies' involving Felix Manalo as the 'last messenger', 'Church of Christ name', denial of Christ's deity, and INC's 'place of origin'. Members of any other Christian organizations are supposedly hopeless unless they join the Iglesia ni Cristo by Felix Manalo.

3. Conclusion
Guests of Iglesia bible studies are rattled then deluded into thinking Felix Manalo had a 'special God-given spiritual insight' on the bible's forbiddance of 'worshipping of idols' and the teaching on the 'mark of the beast (666)' "because" he was 'God's last messenger'. The truth is, these are merely teachings Felix Manalo stole/borrowed from Protestants and Adventists--two groups he once belonged to prior to starting Iglesia ni Cristo in 1914. Not surprisingly, most of the few who actually convert to Iglesia are unaware of this fact.
Other 'unique' teachings used to convince people to join Iglesia crumble under biblical scrutiny. (See NICA's main article regarding Manalo's 'prophecy' and Christ's deity). Thus, converting from any religion INTO the deceitful and erroneous Manalo's doctrines plainly cannot be a path to the truth.

Beware of the Iglesia lure!




Copyright 1998 by The Non Iglesia ni Cristo Association (NICA)

All rights reserved. You may copy, reproduce, and distribute the contents of this page provided that it neither be sold for profit nor altered in any way without prior permission from NICA.

Ed, please give us a comprehensive list of all people that are going to Hell.

Originally posted by edpobre
The following will NOT be saved:

1) Those who do NOT do the WILL of the Father in heaven will NOT enter the kingdom of heaven (Matt. 7:21);

2) Those who do NOT enter the FOLD where Jesus is the door wiil NOT be saved (John 10:9,7);

3) Those who are NOT translated into the "kingdom of God's Son" will NOT be REDEEMED through Christ's blood and will NOT be saved because their sins are NOT forgiven (Col. 1:13-114);

4) Those who do NOT believe Jesus shall NOT see life (John 3:36) because thay are CONDEMNED already  (John 3:18);

5) Those who are NOT baptized (into the CHURCH that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood - Acts 20:28) will NOT be saved (Mark 16:15-16) because they are NOT reconciled to God in the one BODY (Eph. 2:16);

6) Those who do NOT know the ONLY true God and do NOT obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ will NOT  be saved (John 17:3; 2 Thess. 1:8-9);

7) Those who do NOT abide in the DOCTRINE of Christ will NOT be saved because they do NOT have God (2 John 1:9);

8) Those who say to Jesus 'Lord, Lord' but do NOT do the things which he says will NOT be saved (Luke 6:46) because Jesus will say to them on that day, "I NEVER knew you; DEPART from me, you who PRACTICE lawlessness (Matt. 7:23);

9) Those who HATE their BROTHERS in the faith will NOT be saved because LIFE does NOT abide in them (1 John 3:15);

10) Those who PRACTICE: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissentions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries and the like will NOT enter the kingdom of heaven (Gal. 5:19-21);

11) Those who do NOT endure UNTIL the END will NOT be saved (Matt. 24:13).

I hope this is comprehensive enough.

Ed

 

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No, I mean by virtue of denomination...

Which denominations are going to Hell?

Originally posted by edpobre
I cannot fault you OldShepherd for NOT believing. As Jesus said, the mystery of the kingdom of heaven was given to his disciples to know. Because if the Bible says explicitly that everyone should join the Iglesia Ni Cristo to be saved, you would probably be the first to join.

Jesus SAID that ANYONE who ENTERS by him will be saved (John 10:9). Tell me OldShepherd, WHAT should one ENTER in order to be SAVED?

The Bible teaches that Christ PURCHASED the CHURCH with his own blood (Acts 20:28). I say the CHURCH is the Iglesia Ni Cristo. If you say this is false, tell me what's true.

The Bible teaches that Christ LOVED the CHURCH so much that he GAVE his life for it (Eph. 5:25). I say the CHURCH is the Iglesia Ni Cristo. If you say this is false, tell me what's true.

The Bible teaches that Christ is the SAVIOR of the CHURCH (Eph. 5:23). I say the CHURCH is the Iglesia Ni Cristo. If you say this is false, tell me what's true.

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What is truth? Here is the Greek word translated "church" in the N.T. I see absolutely nothing there about a Philipino religious group, named "Iglesias ni Christo" primarily for Pinoy, speaking mostly Tagalog.

1577 ekklesia, ekklesia
1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
2. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
3. the assembly of the Israelites
any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously in a Christian sense
4. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake.
5. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
6. The whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven.

Originally posted by OldShepherd
What is truth? Here is the Greek word translated "church" in the N.T. I see absolutely nothing there about a Philipino religious group, named "Iglesias ni Christo" primarily for Pinoy, speaking mostly Tagalog.

1577 ekklesia, ekklesia
1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
2. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
3. the assembly of the Israelites
any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously in a Christian sense
4. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake.
5. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
6. The whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven.

Posted by El Pobre
Just so we don't have any misunderstanding OldShepherd, which of these 6 definitions of churh is the TRUE church that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood? Which of these 6 definitions of church do you belong to OldShepherd?

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All six definitions are the "true definition" of church. If you look real carefully you will see that I answered that already. Why don't you tell me where there is anything resembling a prophecy which foretells the blasphemous cult you belong to, the "Iglesias ni Manalo"

Originally posted by edpobre

Bible PROPHECIES point to the IGLESIA NI CRISTO as the CHURCH that Christ PURCHASED with his own blood, the CHURCH that Christ GAVE his life for, the CHURCH that Christ will SAVE.

Everyone who DESIRES to be SAVED is INVITED to ENTER the CHURCH that Christ will SAVE on judgment day.
Ed

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Salvation? By what way Let Us Reason Ministries

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

Jn.20:31 " But these things are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that believing you may have life in his name."

Not so says Iglesia Ni Cristo!

They teach Christ's purpose was to establish his Church and since Christ is the savior of the Church for one to be saved we must be in the true Church. They have it backwards we become part of the Chrirch AFTER one is saved, not join the Church to be saved.

Manalo believed the true church was led astray by false prophets after the apostles, therefore a complete apostasy.

In their pamphlet "Are all the Christian churches ways to God" Throughout its writing it emphasizes that one must be in the true church to be in Christ in classic cultic fashion they cut and paste scriptures together to get their personal point across. "How could a baptized member of the church of Christ be certain of the promised salvation? According to the apostle Paul:

1 Cor. 15:1-2: "Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-- unless you believed in vain."

Notice they stopped short of quoting the very thing that Paul is about to address, the Gospel which saves. Its not obeying the commands that save, since this is done after one is saved. Just as it is not works that save but are done after the fact!

Paul continues Gods word 1 Cor. 15:3-4: "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures." Paul writes in Rom.1:16-17 " For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes."

In the attitude of promoting fear they go on to say, We should do what Christ commands us.What does he command? He commands us to enter the church of Christ to be saved (Jn.10:9) While they quote Jn.10:9 if we read through in context which they rarely ever do unless it serves their purposes .

John 10:9-11"I am the door.(Jesus) If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

Its not the church that dispenses salvation but Christ the person. Manalo took Jn10:16 applying to their church alone...

John 10:16"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. He argued this is prophecy of guess who. But Christ is speaking of other sheep that are not immediately present with them, the Gentiles since he came first to his own the house of Israel. Jesus never meant that they will hear Christ through another but that they would hear his voice personally and that he would oversee their care as their personal shepherd. He would not depend on another to bring them into his fold Christ said I will build my church, no man no angel 'wanna be' can do this. He alone deserves the right to do this since as the verse before all this states John 10:15-"As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep." Felix Manalo did not lay his life down for the sheep no did his Son Erdie. He fulfilled it and for one to claim otherwise proves they are not submitted to Christ as the head.

The pamphlet ends with this note Dear reader, it is, therefore, Gods command that we all should enter the church of Christ or Iglesia ni Cristo , in Philippine, if we want to enter the kingdom of heaven to enjoy eternal life."

What of the apostles did they enter this church, was there even a church in ancient times in the Philippines? Obviously not.

In the same pamphlet it says "To be certain of salvation, every member of the church of Christ must obey the doctrines he heard and received all the days of his life, "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life" (Prov.6:23) Obey always is commendable but hardly realistic.

INC teaches that membership in their organization plus complete submission to the Executive Minister and the rest of the Church administration is the only way to be saved:

"Each member ... should submit himself to the Administration of the Church in order to be saved."(PASUGO, January 1976, p. 9)

The following quotes confirm the INC requirement of total submission by all members.

"Unity in the Iglesia Ni Cristo ... transcends and encompasses all aspects of the life of an Iglesia Ni Cristo......(PASUGO, January 1976, p. 5)

"For opposing the Administration of the Church is tantamount to opposing not only Christ but also God."(PASUGO, January 1976, p. 190

"So we should therefore demonstrate complete submission, obedience and loyalty to the Administration..." (PASUGO, January 1976, p.1)

I find this no different than the Mormons or J W’s of which are only a few who claim restoration and being the only true church. Iglesia like others exercise unbiblical control over their members showing that the Christ of Scriptures cannot be their head. Jesus' model was by servanthood not as the gentiles rule by submission.

The author of Hebrews writes in 5:9 "He is the author of eternal salvation to ALL WHO OBEY HIM." The HIM is Jesus .

They hold to the infallibility of scripture as long as it agrees with their own teaching. This is why they will use numerous bibles although their favorite is Lamsa’s and Moffatts which deny the deity of christ. They believe the common Christian cannot understand the bible so it must be interpreted for them by authorized ministers. It is this similarity they have with the Catholic Church, as well as other aberrant groups

"...some of the verses of the Bible were wrongly translated." (PASUGO, February 1973, p. 16)

"No, it is beyond man's power and intelligence to study and understand the truth, which is God's word (John 17:17), by himself, without the guidance of God's messenger."(PASUGO, November 1973, p. 19, 20)

"A doctrine is not of God if it is different from what is written in the Holy Scriptures, or even if found written but is not the present truth it becomes vain before God if used as the basis ,or worshipping God."(PASUGO, Jan. 1976, p. 12)

It is common for authoritarian groups to undermine anything that might threaten their position as the ultimate source of truth in the life of the member. They should take note to apply what they say to themselves.

What they have done is trained their people to hear the voice of their own shepherds. Christ says come unto me and it is through the gospel (his work on the cross for mankind). we enter the Church by Christ who is the door, and the way. we don't join the church to be in Christ.

Jn.10:27: "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow Me." Jesus never said to join this Church or that one. Salvation is found in the person and work of Christ alone. There are many people who unfortunately have another shepherd other than Christ.

Sources used witnessing to the cults by Alex Wilson and Christine Tetley, Iglesia ni Christo A. Leanord Tuggy

Originally posted by edpobre
I read "Iglesia Ni Cristo" in my Tagalog New Testament  Bible OldShepherd. What church do you belong to OldShepherd? Does its name appear in theNT.

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Well let's see, if I named my own personal sect "Church of Christ", then yeah, my church's name would be in the NT.

Is MALIGNING people and MISREPRESETING things the best you can do OldShepherd?

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It's interesting that you should say that ed, because that's exactly what the Iglesia ni Cristo does to the Pope and the Catholic Church.

"That would narrow the choices to your church and mine and make it easier for people to determine which one is true and which one is false. "

LOL, I still don't see how you can do this since the name of your church is not in greek and therefore is a wrong name according to scripture.

"RE-EMERGED "

so no one before 1700 in your church was saved though they shared your ideas and the only difference was the wording? wow..and those are english letters ed, not greek ones, so your church still has the wrong name and thus are not saved.