25 years in Faith Movement:The TRUTH

"When God said that if you eat of the fruit of the tree you shall surely die, it was not a judgement but a statement of a spiritual law. "

I disagree. It was a commandment because to eat of the tree was not inherently wrong, to eat of it when God says not it was. the tree had a purpose, just not one it could fufill at that moment, thus it was sinful to eat of it. you can point me to Gal 6, but I don't see how that helps you at all. According to paul christians are not controled by the sinful nature, so that doesn't apply to them romans 8:9 "You (refering to christians) however, are controled NOT by the sinful nautre but by the spirit."

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"When God said that if you eat of the fruit of the tree you shall surely die, it was not a judgement but a statement of a spiritual law. "

I disagree. It was a commandment because to eat of the tree was not inherently wrong, to eat of it when God says not it was. the tree had a purpose, just not one it could fufill at that moment, thus it was sinful to eat of it. you can point me to Gal 6, but I don't see how that helps you at all. According to paul christians are not controled by the sinful nature, so that doesn't apply to them romans 8:9 "You (refering to christians) however, are controled NOT by the sinful nautre but by the spirit."

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So why then do you still sin.  You chose sin because you love it.  And if you sin then you will eat the fruit there of.  And you will be under the curse.

"And you will be under the curse."

Nope, wrong That's where grace steps in for the christian. You'll never be under the curse again thanks to grace, it covers you every time

Louis you have just contradicted yourself.  You have already said that we are under the curse of sickness, the curse of labor, the curse of pain in childbearing, and you have alluded to us being under the curse of the world in distruction.

You have argued with others and my self included who have said we are under no curses as christians.  I am only saying that by not following after the Spirit we then reap distuction in our lives.  All distruction is from the curse.

"You have already said that we are under the curse of sickness, the curse of labor, the curse of pain in childbearing, and you have alluded to us being under the curse of the world in distruction.
"

Not at all. Those have nothing to do with sin at all, it was God's judgement. The "curse" is death and comes directly from sin. God dealt out those things independant of the sin action in the garden. the reasons are listed not because they sinned. Read it for yourself in gen 3.

"under no curses as christians. "

Nope, i didn't say that at all, I said under the curse of the law, which is not really a curse but as slaves to sin through the law.

"Nope, i didn't say that at all, I said under the curse of the law, which is not really a curse"

Make up your mind what a curse is. The Bible says "curse of the Law". And you go against it by saying "which is not really a curse".

Curse of the Law is not a slaves to sin thing. Read Deu 28 which lists the curses of the Law.......... (these have nothing to do with Christians being slave to sin)

15 ¦ But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
16* Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.
17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.
18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.
21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.
22* The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
23* And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
24* The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
25* The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
26* And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.
27* The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
28* The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart:
29* And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.

17 And unto Adam he said,...cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;... Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee ...19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,


31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek, for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I see a contradiction with your theory and scripture, Louis.

"Curse of the Law is not a slaves to sin thing. "

yup, it is according to paul, I already showed you that in romans.

"I see a contradiction with your theory and scripture, Louis."

Not a contradiction at all if you read the context. that (vs 31-32) as I have already explained is about worrying for your needs. Those will be met. As sola pointed out, you are to work, or you won't be fed. No freeloading allowed according to God. If you read closely you will see there is no contradiction at all snup.

"romans 8:9 "You (refering to christians) however, are controled NOT by the sinful nautre but by the spirit.""

so this verse proves that the curse of the law in Ga 3:13 is slavery to sin? and you conveniently ignore Deu 28, which details the curses?

and how is it in another thread you now say curse of the law is "death".??

""I see a contradiction with your theory and scripture, Louis."
tell me something new!

"so this verse proves that the curse of the law in Ga 3:13 is slavery to sin? and you conveniently ignore Deu 28, which details the curses?"

*sigh* Andrew, you're not making any sence. paul clearly explains what he was talking about in romans when he refers to the curse of the law. he doesn't mention the deu passage at all so there is no need for it. As I have mentioned in the other thread you can't say that Paul was specifically refering to this passage in deu because it was not mentioned. He does say in romans what he means though, so that is the right answer.

"and how is it in another thread you now say curse of the law is "death".??
"

Because that's what the bible says. Please stop taking verses out of context and misapplying them just to rationalize your view.

Dear all,

Those under the law have to obey it perfectly or go to hell.
Christians are not under the law.
There is no sin where there is no law.
The only way to get out from under the law is to be born again from above.
You cannot be 'unborn' spritually, for He promises to never leave us or forsake us.

Therefore christians can never be under law no matter how they view themselves.
They might think they are under the law and try to obey it by their flesh instead of resting in the Spirit.

But they are God's children redeemed from the curse of the law.

Therefore the troubles they meet in life are due to the discipline of the Lord who is trying to correct their ungodly ways and thus conform them ever more like Jesus.

That the Lord allows us to reap sometimes what we sow does not mean we are under law.

Since by Jesus, we are redeemed from the Law AND the curse of the Law, we are free to walk by the Spirit. This redemption is not fully complete until we are given new bodies. BUT it is a sure thing for all those who have been saved.

Since we will not be redeemed in the body until physical seperation from this world, one could say that our bodies having not been redeemed are still subject to the law of sowing and reaping.

Some people are sick or crippled NOT because of any sin they or their parents commited. Therefore not all sickness is due to sin.

What here do any of you object to?

in Jesus alone,
mike

"It is just a matter being out from under His protection."

Nope. If you're a christian you are NEVER out of his protection.

"You can still be healed if you are in the light with Him. But not all sickness is caused by sin."

this is to say if you're not healed then either 1. you're not in the light with him or 2. you're not being faithful enough, and that is simply not true.

"Nope. If you're a christian you are NEVER out of his protection."

so why do Christians get robbed, murdered, car accidents, oppressed by demons etc. unless of course you mean God's protection is not 100%, 24/7.

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"Therefore christians can never be under law no matter how they view themselves.
They might think they are under the law and try to obey it by their flesh instead of resting in the Spirit."

I tend to disagree here. becos of this verse: "Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

Arent there certainly Christians who are still "of the works of the law"? If so, doesnt that put them "under the curse". There are so many Christians who still try to get the blessings of God by "doing things/self-effort" rather than relying on his grace and faith.

BTW: I wld like to ask Hobie and Mike this: When Ga 3:13 says "We are redeemed from the curse of the Law", what is this "curse" of the Law. There are some here who believe this "curse" has NOTHING to do with the curses in Deu 28 nor the curses in the garden of Eden. I believe they include both.

"so why do Christians get robbed, murdered, car accidents, oppressed by demons etc. unless of course you mean God's protection is not 100%, 24/7."

*chuckles* God allows it to happen. That's part of what it means to live in a fallen world. You seem to misunderstand how God works.

*chuckles* God allows it to happen. That's part of what it means to live in a fallen world. You seem to misunderstand how God works.
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dont chuckle too much or u might just choke one day.
ok IOW your god cant protect u 100% 24/7 and its got nothing to do with u walking right with him or not.

so let me get this straight: U say a Christian is NEVER out of God's protection (ie its not a matter of whether he's walking in the light or not -- he's just never out of God's protection), then you say God allows Christians to get robbed, murdered, car accidents, oppressed by demons.

So this means that when a Christian is being stabbed to death, he is still being protected by God. Wow!

"ok IOW your god cant protect u 100% 24/7 and its got nothing to do with u walking right with him or not."

LOL, Andrew, God can protect me 100% of the time. I'm always protects. Read Pslams 23

"then you say God allows Christians to get robbed, murdered, car accidents, oppressed by demons. "

Yup, God will never give you more then you can bare.

Pro 1:33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

So what about those christians who have commited suicide?

"So what about those christians who have commited suicide?"

What do you think? Do you think God abandons them?

Snup,

like Louis said, they were somehow protected by god!