Tithing/Speaking in Tongues

"1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret."

yes, andrew that is what is done in private. As seen later in the passage. This is not something you do in public. any tongues done in public MUST have a translator.

"Are you willing to open your mouth and speak or do you just want to rationalise the whole thing away as dumb. the choice is yours and God wont force it."

I know I don't have that gift, so I won't misuse the spirit and try to take it. I would prefer a gift that builds up the church



"Are you saying that a person can not pray in church, that threre is to be no pesonal comunication to God in church"

In tongues? That's right, it is not edifying to the church, it is something done in private.

"Also how do you explain the increase of the presence of God when there is praying in tongues in a service."

I don't because there isn't. There is an increase of an emotionalism, but that's all I see increase. The presence of God is just as full without tongues or praying in tongues. For you to even say this tells me that you're going to believe what you want no matter what the bible says

"If you do forbid praying in church then you are forbiding not only the use of tongues but also the use of prayer."

You're making an illogical jump. You are not to pray in tongues out loud, you can pray but you are NOT to pray in tongues at all, that's what the bible says. Its not edifying to the church, just to you. So you should do it in private.

"yes, andrew that is what is done in private. As seen later in the passage. This is not something you do in public. any tongues done in public MUST have a translator."

so are you saying a tongue speaker can interpret his own tongue in private but not in public? your point was that the one who speaks in tongues cannot also be the one to interpret ie must be a 2nd party. the verse i gave you just proves it is poss for a person who speak (the word speak is used not pray) to interpret himself.

of cse i agree that Paul's rule is that when a tongue is spoken in church, it shld be interpreted so that all may be edified. but that does not mean that there wont be tongues spoken without interpretation. simply becos there will be those who are tasked by the Holy Spirit to interpret the tongue just spoken but who dont obey the prompting of the HS to interpret. Also, there will be those who speak out there prayer language thinking its a message in tongues from God when its not (those new to the gifts and still learning/growing). so there's no interpretation again. but this does not have to cause confusion becos then they are just told to sit down.

"I know I don't have that gift,"

that's becos you dont reach out for it in faith. think abt it, God sent it when you asked for it. but then you simply didnt open your mouth in faith. so nothing manifests.

" You are not to pray in tongues out loud, you can pray but you are NOT to pray in tongues at all, that's what the bible says. "

so is it ok if i sit in church and pray in tongues quietly under my breath? how is that diff from someone praying silently in English? -- I cant really hear what he's praying (I'd be evesdroping btw) -- it doesnt edify me, so shld I tell him to shut up and do it at home?

And again, since you see tongues as only a foreign language rather then a spiritual language.

Would it be o.k. by you Louis, if a non-english speaking person prays to themselves in their native tongue in an english service?  Seeing how this would create the exact same 'confusion' as me praying to my self in tongues, would that be 'biblical'.

 

So what does the presence of God feel like to you anyway?

How do you know when you feel it?

hey Snup,

"So what does the presence of God feel like to you anyway?"

interesting question. i've always been intrigued by those who say they can feel God presence here now. im talking abt physical manifstations.

in my church, a very light cool breeze. at first i thot it was the air-conditioning but now i realise its not cos its just different. another is similar to hair standing -- except that the hairs on your arms dont stand.

once the chimes in the background played by itself as if to punctuate a sentence my pastor was preaching.

what abt you?

Tithing was commanded in the Old Testament for one thing: atonement and forgiveness of sins! Even then, God did not want it unless it was from a willing heart! I challenge any of those tithe commanding preachers to show me where a "commanded" tithe and offering was used for anything else. Even the support for the Levitical priesthood came from the tithes and offerings that were used for the atonement (covering up) and forgiveness of sins. That's why you NEVER hear of 10%'ing in the NT after Jesus said the words "it is finished". Jesus paid my tithes and offerings! The only place it's mentioned again is in Hebrews where Paul is saying that the Levitical system DID NOT work - so a change in the law was necessary!

These preachers that preach you HAVE TO tithe depend on a paycheck and do not have faith in God, or his people, to give the way that God intended. Look at the example in Exodus when they built the tabernacle... the people gave so much out of a willing heart - Moses HAD TO TELL THEM TO QUIT GIVING!!! Is tithing a good example to follow?! YES! Absolutely - the Bible says out preachers are to make their living from the gospel... but before I pitch in on your grocery bill - you better be preachin' the gospel right brother!

2 Cor 9:7 says - Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. I do not see any percentile's in this statement. Take it for what it says!! It's all God's, but He gave it to you as blessing - See Ecclesiastes - Just be careful with what you do with it and support your preacher!!

Andrew I have started a new thread for this topic:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21081

I will give my answer but I want to see what other people come up with first.

Originally posted by Andrew
hey Snup,

"So what does the presence of God feel like to you anyway?"

interesting question. i've always been intrigued by those who say they can feel God presence here now. im talking abt physical manifstations.

in my church, a very light cool breeze. at first i thot it was the air-conditioning but now i realise its not cos its just different. another is similar to hair standing -- except that the hairs on your arms dont stand.

once the chimes in the background played by itself as if to punctuate a sentence my pastor was preaching.

what abt you?

Click to expand...

I agree the same has happen to me, plus when the Glory fell there was a very bright light, and I have also heard of a cloud falling around worshippers. I have seen bright colored lights also.
A sense of well-being far beyond normal. Once I had a vision of the throne room, it was awesome white and irrestable, I felt light headed afterwards! Praise God !

"so are you saying a tongue speaker can interpret his own tongue in private but not in public? "

Yes, because later he can tell people what he ment if he wants to talk about it.

"simply becos there will be those who are tasked by the Holy Spirit to interpret the tongue just spoken but who dont obey the prompting of the HS to interpret. "

then the speaker needs to be quiet. That's what Paul says.


"that's becos you dont reach out for it in faith. think abt it, God sent it when you asked for it. but then you simply didnt open your mouth in faith. so nothing manifests."

Here you assume to know that I haven't done that, which is completely wrong.


"Would it be o.k. by you Louis, if a non-english speaking person prays to themselves in their native tongue in an english service? "

Out loud? I'd probably so no because no one can understand him and it doesn't edify the church, thus it shouldn't be done.


"So what does the presence of God feel like to you anyway?

How do you know when you feel it?
"

First of all you don't have to "feel" it. Second, to think you have to have some emotional high during a service is wrong. Third I always feel the presence of God with me. For its who I am, I am of God he never leaves me, neither does his presence.

As for tongues I have given you what is straight from scripture, if you don't want to accept that, don't blame me.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Would it be o.k. by you Louis, if a non-english speaking person prays to themselves in their native tongue in an english service? "

Out loud? I'd probably so no because no one can understand him and it doesn't edify the church, thus it shouldn't be done.

Click to expand...

Maybe you don't understand when I say prays to themself, I mean speaking under their breath.  Talking so softly that only someone real close would be able to hear.  This is what we have been talking about the entire time.

But you answer reveals a greater problem with your doctrine.  You would hinder a person from reaching God simply because they don't speak the language.  What if they are praying the sinners prayer?  My wife says that your responce is silly (her word for foolish).

"So what does the presence of God feel like to you anyway?

How do you know when you feel it?
"

First of all you don't have to "feel" it. Second, to think you have to have some emotional high during a service is wrong. Third I always feel the presence of God with me. For its who I am, I am of God he never leaves me, neither does his presence.

Click to expand...

your right, you don't have to feel it.  But how did you feel when your father gave you a big hug?  Was it wrong for you to feel an emotional high then?  Do you know when His annointing comes upon you?  I think you are trying to establish doctrine for things that you don't understand.  Walk in my shoes, maybe then you will understand what I'm talking about.

As for tongues I have given you what is straight from scripture, if you don't want to accept that, don't blame me.

Click to expand...

Correction:  You have given me your interpretation of scripture.  An interpretation with many whole and a lot of prejudgist.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"so are you saying a tongue speaker can interpret his own tongue in private but not in public? "

Yes, because later he can tell people what he ment if he wants to talk about it.

"simply becos there will be those who are tasked by the Holy Spirit to interpret the tongue just spoken but who dont obey the prompting of the HS to interpret. "

then the speaker needs to be quiet. That's what Paul says.


"that's becos you dont reach out for it in faith. think abt it, God sent it when you asked for it. but then you simply didnt open your mouth in faith. so nothing manifests."

Here you assume to know that I haven't done that, which is completely wrong.


"Would it be o.k. by you Louis, if a non-english speaking person prays to themselves in their native tongue in an english service? "

Out loud? I'd probably so no because no one can understand him and it doesn't edify the church, thus it shouldn't be done.


"So what does the presence of God feel like to you anyway?

How do you know when you feel it?
"

First of all you don't have to "feel" it. Second, to think you have to have some emotional high during a service is wrong. Third I always feel the presence of God with me. For its who I am, I am of God he never leaves me, neither does his presence.

As for tongues I have given you what is straight from scripture, if you don't want to accept that, don't blame me.

Click to expand...

It is hard to follow who is saying what in this post.

Elnaam,

get watcha mean -- everyone seems to be speaking in tongues...*LOL

Originally posted by Andrew
Elnaam,

get watcha mean -- everyone seems to be speaking in tongues...*LOL

Click to expand...

LOL true! Blessing Andrew

Tithing does not have to be all money. It can be the first fruits of our labor. Our time and talents. In giving, you recognize where everything you have has really come from. God.
I believe that the gifts of tongues is given to some. It doesn't mean you are more or less Spirit filled if you do. Romans 12:1-8 explains it well. We are all members of the body of Christ, and no one is more or less important than another. (see also 1 Corinthians 12)

"Tithing does not have to be all money. It can be the first fruits of our labor. Our time and talents."

exactly! its the Biblical principle of firstfruits -- where if you want the whole batch to be holy, you just give God the first 10% (firstfruits) and he'll bless the entire whole. so it doesnt have to be just your salary, but your family (eg firstborn), career, time, business, etc. Always give God the firstfruits and he'll consecrate/bless the rest. that's a spiritual principle.

as for tongues, it is also said that if you want God to have/bless your whole physical body, give him the firstfruit -- your tongue. yield your tongue. that's why proverbs says "life and death is in the power of the tongue" and "he that will love life and see good days, let his tongue refrain from speaking evil/doubt".

firstfruits and tithes are NOT the same thing. "you just give God the first 10% (firstfruits)" Don't combine 10% with firstfruits.

We're not "required" to give anything to God in order to recieve God's blessings! - there are no percentages attached to NT verses like 2 Cor. 9:7. In fact, after Jesus said "it is finished" you never see the word tithe (tenth, 10%) again. Except in Hebrews where Paul is saything the "commanded" tithing system did not work.

Don't get me wrong - we are to support our preachers, but "tithing" didn't come around again until churches saw an opportunity to get rich. That's why you see a building on every street corner taking the name of our Lord in vain - claiming to be His church in order to collect a paycheck.

OT "commanded" tithing was for the atonement and forgiveness of sins - ALWAYS! Jesus paid my tithes and offerings. Don't forget that God wants faithful stewardship of your personal income. He always tells us in Ecclesiastes - He gave us an income to enjoy, as a blessing from Him.

Support your preachers, and the spreading of the gospel - but do not fall into the lie that God wants your 10% or He won't bless you. Don't take my word for it - study it yourself.

"It is hard to follow who is saying what in this post."

Well the main jist is that you are not to speak in tongues in public unless there is an interpreter and that must be someone else.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"It is hard to follow who is saying what in this post."

Well the main jist is that you are not to speak in tongues in public unless there is an interpreter and that must be someone else.

Click to expand...

Not according to 1 Cor14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

"Support your preachers, and the spreading of the gospel - but do not fall into the lie that God wants your 10% or He won't bless you. Don't take my word for it - study it yourself."

Yeah we've studied, thanks.

"Well the main jist is that you are not to speak in tongues in public unless there is an interpreter and that must be someone else."

Tha's Louis' jist of it, but not mine, Snup or Elnaam's. *LOL

"Not according to 1 Cor14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret."

As I explained that is something to be done IN PRIVATE. did you not read my thread? It is not benefical for the church. Again, you didn't read the WHOLE passage in Cor as Paul very specifically says that doesn't edify the church and thus should be done in private.

oh, sorry Andrew, I didn't think I was speaking for you..did it come off that way?