Pauls Mystery Revealed By Whom

rightlydividingtheword · Nov 7, 2006

yeshuasavedme said:
Peter saw it before Paul as has been pointed out here many times.

That the Salvation was also for the Gentiles, that they may be fellowheirs "in the True Israel of God" of the Promise of the Spirit, was long established before Paul came on the scene -which information [his marching orders] Paul received from Anannais, not from Jesus, and was established fact by the Jerusalem council when Paul and others were sent to Jerusalem by the Antioch Church to get the matter settled once, for all, and they returned with a letter of approval to Antioch and the other surrounding local assemblies.

Paul was ordained for his call to the Gentiles by the Antiochian brethren, BTW. He was no new bringer in of any new doctrines at all.

2 peter 3:15
15)And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Tell me if it was revealed to Peter before Paul. why is Paul's epistles hard to be understood by Peter

jeffweeder · Nov 7, 2006

Tell me if it was revealed to Peter before Paul. why is Paul's epistles hard to be understood by Peter

Click to expand...

How could he make that comment, and not know how it is twisted and distorted ?

Just imagine for 1 second please ,that you can hear the truth about salvation, from Jesus only. Out of all that has been written-, you only had , say the gospel of luke,-
Qu- Is the lords own word enough for you ?, to know the truth of salvation?- and be saved?
Was Jesus correct when he said that you do not need any to teach you, but the Spirit would lead you to all truth?
Or do you rely on this " mystery" , that was revealed to Paul only?
Do you have confidence in Peter's confession of "JESUS IS THE CHRIST"? and this is the principle of entering the kingdom body- His church?
Do you have confidence that they are witnesses-to the mystery of his ressurection?

Salvation is not in a message, savation came about by Jesus's life and ressurection, His obedience to God 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week for 33 or so commited years. The man sweated blood in anticipation of the horror to befall him- FOR YOU ONLY-...... After the event, he said to them, hey guys, this is what i was saying to you all along, But everthing spoken beforehand , by the prophets and Moses , MUST BE FULFILLED.- LOOK, They were saying that I had to suffer, be crucified, and rise from the dead the 3rd day.-Now that you know the gospel, and its power, wait for the promise that I tried to tell you about before, Then go into all the world and tell them-Make disciples of all nations, as my blood has covered a multitude of sins, and I hold the keys of death.

eph3Nine · Nov 7, 2006

rightlydividingtheword said:
2 peter 3:15
15)And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Tell me if it was revealed to Peter before Paul. why is Paul's epistles hard to be understood by Peter

Good question, rightly dividing. One that would tell us that Peter DIDNT know the mystery before Paul, and even AFTER Paul he shook hands with him at the Jerusalem council and agreed that he would limit his preaching to the little flock and go with Gods plan for PAUL (not the 12 as in the Kingdom program) to go to the nations.

yeshuasavedme · Nov 7, 2006

rightlydividingtheword said:
2 peter 3:15
15)And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Tell me if it was revealed to Peter before Paul. why is Paul's epistles hard to be understood by Peter

Peter didn't say He had trouble understanding the things Paul wrote: he said the unlearned and unstable did, and that they twisted what Paul wrote, to their destruction.
If Peter had no understanding -which belies what Jesus said to Him after His resurrection- then Peter could not make the judgment that some twisted what Paul wrote to their own destruction.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned [ignorant] and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

So, rightlydividingthe word, if you continue making this claim, you are calling Peter "unlearned" =ignorant, , which is opposite to Jesus' opening' the understanding after His resurrection, to Peter and all His disciples, and of sending the Holy Spirit to "teach them all things" -is that not what the Word does say?.

Are you, rightlydivingtheword, actually willing to be on record as saying that Jesus lied to Peter and the disciples in this passage -and that He did not keep His promise to them?
-Jhn 14:25¶These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you.
But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And John also agrees;

1Jo 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

rightlydividingtheword · Nov 7, 2006

eph3Nine said:
Good question, rightly dividing. One that would tell us that Peter DIDNT know the mystery before Paul, and even AFTER Paul he shook hands with him at the Jerusalem council and agreed that he would limit his preaching to the little flock and go with Gods plan for PAUL (not the 12 as in the Kingdom program) to go to the nations.

Ephesians 3:5-6

5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6)That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 2:13)

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Prior to the raising up of PAul when was the gentiles ever "fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

CAn you honestly tell me That Peter recieved this revelation before PAul?

Ephesians 3:2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Was this dispensation given to Peter, and the eleven.

yeshuasavedme · Nov 7, 2006

yeshuasavedme said:
Peter didn't say He had trouble understanding the things Paul wrote: he said the unlearned and unstable did, and that they twisted what Paul wrote, to their destruction.
If Peter had no understanding -which belies what Jesus said to Him after His resurrection- then Peter could not make the judgment that some twisted what Paul wrote to their own destruction.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned [ignorant] and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

So, rightlydividingthe word, if you continue making this claim, you are calling Peter "unlearned" =ignorant, , which is opposite to Jesus' opening' the understanding after His resurrection, to Peter and all His disciples, and of sending the Holy Spirit to "teach them all things" -is that not what the Word does say?.

Are you, rightlydivingtheword, actually willing to be on record as saying that Jesus lied to Peter and the disciples in this passage -and that He did not keep His promise to them?
-Jhn 14:25¶These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you.
But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And John also agrees;

1Jo 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Can you reply to this, rightlydividing?

s0journ3r · Nov 7, 2006

rightlydividingtheword said:
Ephesians 3:2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Was this dispensation given to Peter, and the eleven.

Paul was not the only steward of the mysteries or the grace of God. He himself denies this when he says,

1 Corinthians 4:1 :: This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Peter states:

1 Peter 4:10 :: As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God's varied grace.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

Apollos1 · Nov 7, 2006

Sojourner -

I am certain that you do not expect a reply to your logical and truthful post. Whenever a dispy see such plain truth, the attempt will be made to bury it under 5 or 6 other posts. They won't attempt to answer that plain truth.

Please allow me to share with you what you already know...

1 Corinthians 2

6 We speak wisdom, however, among them that are fullgrown: yet a wisdom not of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, who are coming to nought:
7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, [even] the [wisdom] that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory:
8 which none of the rulers of this world hath known: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory:
9 but as it is written, Things which eye saw not, and ear heard not, And [which] entered not into the heart of man, Whatsoever things God prepared for them that love him.
10 But unto us God revealed [them] through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. - ASV

I don't know how long I have been asking, but I have NEVER got a dispy to answer me...

WHO is the "WE" and the "US" that Paul mentions in the verse above?????????????????????????????????????????

Dispys don't rightly divide the word, they just divide it !

s0journ3r · Nov 7, 2006

Apollos1 said:
Sojourner -

I am certain that you do not expect a reply to your logical and truthful post. Whenever a dispy see such plain truth, the attempt will be made to bury it under 5 or 6 other posts. They won't attempt to answer that plain truth.

Please allow me to share with you what you already know...

1 Corinthians 2

6We speak wisdom, however, among them that are fullgrown: yet a wisdom not of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, who are coming to nought:
7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, [even] the [wisdom] that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory:
8 which none of the rulers of this world hath known: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory:
9 but as it is written, Things which eye saw not, and ear heard not, And [which] entered not into the heart of man, Whatsoever things God prepared for them that love him.
10But unto us God revealed [them] through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. - ASV

I don't know how long I have been asking, but I have NEVER got a dispy to answer me...

WHO is the "WE" and the "US" that Paul mentions in the verse above?????????????????????????????????????????

Dispys don't rightly divide the word, they just divide it !

I know exactly what you're saying, Apollos. In fact, I've ignored a couple of them already because they don't address anything that's brought up with honesty & integrity...rather, they merely repeat the same ol' MAD rhetoric that's already been dealt with - even to the point of drowning out good threads for the sake of discouraging people from painfully plodding through the posts to get an idea of the teachings against MAD theology. One poster specifically constantly adds new threads regarding the same exact topic she spoke of yesterday (and the day before)...causing other threads that bring the MAD theology into question to fall off the front page of the forum. Such tactics speak for themselves, in my opinion.

I do appreciate you and other people here who are shedding light on this topic, though. I pray that it'll shine throughout all the ruckus that's constantly posted & reposted on here.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

yeshuasavedme · Nov 7, 2006

Act 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, [and] mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

1Cr 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Cr 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

1Cr 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

1Cr 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

1Cr 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

1Cr 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and [to] Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think [of men] above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

1Cr 16:12 As touching [our] brother Apollos, I greatly desired him to come unto you with the brethren: but his will was not at all to come at this time; but he will come when he shall have convenient time.

Tts 3:13 Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be wanting unto them.

yeshuasavedme · Nov 7, 2006

JMWHALEN said:
__________

Where did you come up with that heathen name "Apollos"?

John M. Whalen

Act 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, [and] mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

1Cr 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Cr 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

1Cr 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

1Cr 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

1Cr 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

1Cr 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and [to] Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think [of men] above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

1Cr 16:12 As touching [our] brother Apollos, I greatly desired him to come unto you with the brethren: but his will was not at all to come at this time; but he will come when he shall have convenient time.

Tts 3:13 Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be wanting unto them

OldShepherd · Nov 7, 2006

[size=+1]All members please read and heed. If members cannot discuss this topic without insulting, belittling, and demeaning language the thread will be closed and official action will be taken.

Any post that includes personal pronouns, "you, your, you're" almost invariably violates forum rules. Address the topic, not other members. e.g. "This post/reply..." "The doctrine of..." "The teaching that..."

For example,
"The opposition teaching, doctrine, belief, etc. of ....... is false, contradictory, unbiblical, unscriptural, because < scripture, other references, etc.>"[/size]

Apollos1 · Nov 8, 2006

My thanks to the shepherd for his remarks - although I am just one of those people that are NOT easily offended.

And to Yes-----me... for his post in my reagrd!

The frustration of the opposition to my point of view has cetainly shown through.

I would further suggest the opposition spend more time in Bible study - and attempting to ANSWER the points of truth presented to them - rather than slinging insults.

I can only hope to give the name "Apollos" the honor that this past disciple deserves...

Now a certain Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by race, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the scriptures. - Acts 18:24.

yeshuasavedme · Nov 8, 2006

Apollos1 said:
My thanks to the shepherd for his remarks - although I am just one of those people that are NOT easily offended.

And to Yes-----me... for his post in my reagrd!

The frustration of the opposition to my point of view has cetainly shown through.

I would further suggest the opposition spend more time in Bible study - and attempting to ANSWER the points of truth presented to them - rather than slinging insults.

I can only hope to give the name "Apollos" the honor that this past disciple deserves...

Now a certain Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by race, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the scriptures. - Acts 18:24.

-Welcome -may you be also be "mighty in the Scriptures, "proving that Jesus Christ is the Messiah", always anointed by the Holy Spirit to be "His witness".

But I'm a she, wife of Tom for 43 years and mother of 7, who have themselves borne 14 and adopted 2. -because I am now with an empty nest and 'grandmom' I can spend time on this thing, but would never have had the time when I "had my children about me".

jeffweeder · Nov 9, 2006

-Welcome -may you be also be "mighty in the Scriptures, "proving that Jesus Christ is the Messiah", always anointed by the Holy Spirit to be "His witness".

But I'm a she, wife of Tom for 43 years and mother of 7, who have themselves borne 14 and adopted 2. -because I am now with an empty nest and 'grandmom' I can spend time on this thing, but would never have had the time when I "had my children about me".

But you sound so young, why is that?.....

yeshuasavedme · Nov 9, 2006

jeffweeder said:
But you sound so young, why is that?.....

Because the 'spirit' is 'ageless' -only our cursed bodies are effected by time -which bodies can also be so effected by illness that the spirit cannot express itself through it, but nevertheless, the spirit of a man, itself, is ageless.
My neighbor once reminisced that it seemed like only a couple weeks ago that she and her sis would take thier little wagon [loaded with pretend household goods], down to the creek and play house, at ages 8 and 4; she was in her 80's at that time and of sound and sharp mind -which she still has at 94.

foundinHim · Nov 9, 2006

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

timlamb · Nov 10, 2006

foundinHim said:
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

good word foundinHim, if I detect one who will endanger a soul, we'll call on the Lord and stand together, circle the wagons as it were.

GLJCA · Nov 10, 2006

Prior to Paul, when was gentiles equal with a jew, when did we become fellowhiers?

In the Jerusalem council, which was before Paul was given the ministry to the Gentiles, Peter said,
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven (Matt 16:19) to open the Kingdom of Heaven to the Jews in Acts 2 and the Gentiles in Acts 10, making one new man.

GLJCA

jeffweeder · Nov 10, 2006

The mystery revealed by Christ

15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper[6][Gr Paracletos, one called alongside to help; or Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor ], that He may be with you forever;
17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 "After[7][Lit Yet a little and the world ] a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.
20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Paul
25 Of this church I was[35][Lit became ] made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,
26 that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints,
27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally[1][Lit in the flesh ] seen my face,
2 that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that[2][Lit of the full assurance ] comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument.

3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. (eph 1)
4 By[1][Lit To which, when you read ] referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into[2][Lit in ] the mystery of Christ,
5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in[3][Or by ] the Spirit;
6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

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