Do you have God?

LouisBooth · Nov 7, 2001

"Is Jesus God PrinceJeff? If you say he is, then you DON'T abide in Christ's doctrine that the FATHER is the ONLY true God. "

:lol: don't you see these aren't contracting statements...example: water is the only kind of H2O. Ice is also H2O..exactly the same thing..those statements don't contradict.

"Is the "local" church of which you are now a member of, the true body or church of Christ?"

Yes, from what I have read of PJ, it is. Where two or more are gathered together in his name.....

"Please show scripture to support your FALSE belief. "

Sure..it is written that Christ bapitses by the spirit and not with water..John the B said that himself.

PrinceJeff · Nov 8, 2001

You may shout to the world that you have God but in the eyes of God, you HAVEN'T.

How do you know what is in the eyes of God. You don't, therefore your statement is FALSE!

I do not understand you Edpobre. You start every thread out with "Dear Friends" but then you resort to such atrocities as calling us "blind" and "ignorant" among other things. You are nothing but a study on contradictions. The way you talk to us on here is very un-Christian. Hypocrite.

Josephus · Nov 8, 2001

I wonder ed, if you have a real relationship with God. What makes your relationship with God real? How do you know He's there?

edpobre · Nov 9, 2001

Josephus,

You wrote:

I wonder ed, if you have a real relationship with God. What makes your relationship with God real? How do you know He's there?

Anyone can say he has a "real" relationship with God. But to US, the only "real" relationship with God is what the Bible says.

One can only have a "real" relationship with God when one has been reconciled to God and has made peace with Him.

Rom. 5:1 says: "... having been justified by FAITH, we have peace with God THROUGH our Lord Jesus Christ."

Rom. 5:9 says: "Much more then, having NOW been justified by his BLOOD, we shall be saved from wrath THROUGH him."

Rom. 5:10 says: ' "For if when we were enemies we were RECONCILED to God THROUGH the death of his son, much more, having been RECONCILED, we shall be savedby his life."

Rom. 5:11 says: "And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom we have now received the RECONCILIATION."

You will note from these verses Josephus that for one to have a "real" relationship with God, one has to be "justified by faith." But is FAITH ALONE enough? No, you also have to be "justified by the blood" of Christ in order to be SAVED from the wrath of God.

Most people say that once they accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, they have been "justified by the blood" of Christ and now have a personal relationship with God - meaning Jesus.

This belief is FALSE! We do NOT make peace with Jesus. We make peace with God THROUGH Jesus. Jesus is NOT God. He is the ONLY mediator between God and man. And nobody can be "justified by the blood" of Jesus by merely "accepting Jesus as Lord and savior." This belief is NOT supported by the Bible.

Apostle Paul also says that those who have been "justified by faith and by the blood of Christ have now beemn RECONCILED to God. How were these people RECONCILED to God?

Eph. 2:15-16 sys: (15)"having abolished in his flesh the enmity, that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to a CREATE in himself ONE NEW MAN from the two, thus making PEACE, and that he might RECONCILE them both to God in ONE BODY through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity."

The Bible teaches that these people who were "justified by faith and by the blood of Christ" have made PEACE and have been RECONCILED to God in ONE BODY.

This ONE BODY is the church of which Christ is the HEAD (Col. 1:1

. Apostle Paul called members of this church, "churches of Christ" (Rom. 16:16) or IGLESIA NI CRISTO in Pilipino or its equivalent in Hebrew or Greek.

These members did NOT belong to different denominations or sects. They were NOT divided. They had ONE faith, ONE hope, ONE baptism, ONE God the Father who is above all, and ONE Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Cor. 8:6).

These members NOT only believed the gospel preached by apostles Peter and Paul. They were also baptized and ADDED to the church (Acts 2:41, 47).

Was this church a "universal, spiritual and invisible church" as Protestant pastors and evangelists teach? Definirtely NOT! The Bible teaches that "...At that time a great persecution arose against the church which was in Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. As for Saul, he made havoc of the church, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, committing them to prison." (Acts 8:1, 3).

Where do you find those who have "real" relationship with God the Father and with Jesus Christ, the Son of God? They are found in the only ONE BODY of Christ or only ONE church of Christ.

That church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO where I am a particular member of.

Ed

swimmase · Nov 9, 2001

audio prophecy "swimmase, that is an excellent quote from the bible"

thanks - i think it's one that should be brought out a bit more

ZoneChaos · Nov 9, 2001

That church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO where I am a particular member of.

Well.. since Paul seems to be a meber, long befroe the organization existed, that bares the name "IGLESIA NI CRISTO", then are you saying that anyone who is a Christian is a member of IGLESIA NI CRISTO? That it doe snot matter fi they attend a church with that marquee above the door, so long as they beleive as Paul did?

PrinceJeff · Nov 9, 2001

Anyone can say he has a "real" relationship with God. But to US, the only "real" relationship with God is what the Bible says.

Anyone with a 75 IQ knows that, Ed.

One can only have a "real" relationship with God when one has been reconciled to God and has made peace with Him.

See my above statement.

You will note from these verses Josephus that for one to have a "real" relationship with God, one has to be "justified by faith." But is FAITH ALONE enough? No, you also have to be "justified by the blood" of Christ in order to be SAVED from the wrath of God.

Ed you just contradicted yourself. :lol:

Most people say that once they accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, they have been "justified by the blood" of Christ and now have a personal relationship with God - meaning Jesus.

This belief is FALSE! We do NOT make peace with Jesus. We make peace with God THROUGH Jesus. Jesus is NOT God. He is the ONLY mediator between God and man. And nobody can be "justified by the blood" of Jesus by merely "accepting Jesus as Lord and savior." This belief is NOT supported by the Bible.

Jesus is God, and you know it. 1 John 5:7 Says Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one. Are you trying to say we literally need the blood poured on us? Your idea is the one that is false and heretical.

Apostle Paul also says that those who have been "justified by faith and by the blood of Christ have now beemn RECONCILED to God. How were these people RECONCILED to God?

By faith which is accepting that his blood was shed for you.

The Bible teaches that these people who were "justified by faith and by the blood of Christ" have made PEACE and have been RECONCILED to God in ONE BODY.

This ONE BODY is the church of which Christ is the HEAD (Col. 1:1 . Apostle Paul called members of this church, "churches of Christ" (Rom. 16:16) or IGLESIA NI CRISTO in Pilipino or its equivalent in Hebrew or Greek.

Iglesia Ni Cristo is a literal translation like "feliz cumpleanos" is "happy birthday". The Iglesia Ni Cristo as you belong to is a denomination and more accurately a cult which has brainwashed you to hades and back.

Where do you find those who have "real" relationship with God the Father and with Jesus Christ, the Son of God? They are found in the only ONE BODY of Christ or only ONE church of Christ.

That church is the IGLESIA NI CRISTO where I am a particular member of.

Ed again it is a denomination. Jesus built his church, not Felix Manalo, a loon who claimed to be the 5th angel in revelation. Why have you bought into this horse manure?

savinggrc · Nov 9, 2001

No, don't have God. He has me and isn't that a much better thing!!!

PrinceJeff · Nov 9, 2001

Good point there!

savinggrc · Nov 9, 2001

Thanks Prince...I have my moments...

LouisBooth · Nov 10, 2001

"But is FAITH ALONE enough? "

Yes, that's why Paul wrote this.."For by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-Not by works, so that no one can boast."

Do you realize that you are limiting God by saying we have to do something else? You're saying God couldn't save us, we have to help. This is NOT biblical.

"Where do you find those who have "real" relationship with God the Father and with Jesus Christ, the Son of God? They are found in the only ONE BODY of Christ or only ONE church of Christ. "

That's right, and the ONLY thing that you have to do to get into it are believe. You don't have to go to any specific church, for that is limiting God. You're wrong in your theology ed, the bible clearly shows that.

PrinceJeff · Nov 10, 2001

He is wrong in more than theology. :lol:

edpobre · Nov 11, 2001

LouisBooth/PrinceJeff,

How can you believe your theology is right when you don't even have faith and trust in what Jesus says?

Jesus says he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). But you don't believe him! You believe Thomas and Isaiah more than him. Yet you say you accept Jesus as your LORD and EXPECT him to save you.

Is this your way of showing Jesus how you trust him and accept his authority over you as your LORD? And you want me to think and behave like you?

Ed

ZoneChaos · Nov 11, 2001

Ed.. who has denied beleif in the scriptures you posted above? Me? LB? Who? We accept that Jesus is a man.. we accept that the Fathe ris the inly true God. I have said this many times, and yet you still claim that we do not believe what we keep saying we beleive.

Also, thre are a few posts of mine you have not responded to...

PrinceJeff · Nov 11, 2001

How can you believe your theology is right when you don't even have faith and trust in what Jesus says?

I ask you the same question. By the way I do believe what he says. Get your facts straight.

Jesus says he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). But you don't believe him! You believe Thomas and Isaiah more than him. Yet you say you accept Jesus as your LORD and EXPECT him to save you.

1 John 5:7 says the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one. Are you calling John a liar? Oh by the way Ed, He has already saved me and is my Lord.

Is this your way of showing Jesus how you trust him and accept his authority over you as your LORD? And you want me to think and behave like you?

We don't think and behave like a heretic (you), who says his little group of people with some misinterpreted marquee above their church door is the only people who are saved. We also do not behave like someone who denies scriptures and prooftexts the Word to fit his FALSE beliefs. We also don't call people names like you do. We do not exclude anyone from Heaven just because they do not worship as we do.

Oh yeah Ed you have ducked me in the past before as well. And your arguments are useless and wrong.

edpobre · Nov 11, 2001

ZoneChaos,

You wrote:

Well.. since Paul seems to be a meber, long befroe the organization existed, that bares the name "IGLESIA NI CRISTO", then are you saying that anyone who is a Christian is a member of IGLESIA NI CRISTO? That it doe snot matter fi they attend a church with that marquee above the door, so long as they beleive as Paul did?

No Zone. I'm not saying that anyone who is a "Christian" is a member of Iglesia Ni Cristo. On the contrary, what I'm saying is anyone who is a member of the Iglesia Ni Cristo is a TRUE Christian.

And only members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo believe as Paul did. Paul believed that for Christians, there is only one God and that is the Father. The Iglesia Ni Cristo in these last days believe in that too.

Ed

edpobre · Nov 11, 2001

Savinggrc,

You wrote:

No, don't have God. He has me and isn't that a much better thing!!!

I'm afraid you have been DECEIVED into believing this LIE.

The Bible says that he who "does NOT abide in the doctrine of Christ does NOT have God. He who ABIDES in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son" (2 John 9).

It follows that anyone who does NOT have God does NOT have the son as well. And anyone who does NOT have the son does NOT have life (1 John 5:12).

I can't see how someone who does NOT have God can claim that God has him or her. I can only feel sorry for someone who believes in this LIE.

Ed

edpobre · Nov 11, 2001

ZoneChaos,

You wrote:

Ed.. who has denied beleif in the scriptures you posted above? Me? LB? Who? We accept that Jesus is a man.. we accept that the Fathe ris the inly true God. I have said this many times, and yet you still claim that we do not believe what we keep saying we beleive.

You say you accept Jesus is a man and you accept that the Father is the only true God.

You also said so many times that Jesus is NOT the Father and the Father is NOT Jesus.

Yet you INSIST that Jesus is God?

Do you and LB TRULY believe what you keep saying you believe?

Please enlighten us again why you say Jesus, the SON, is God despite YOUR saying that the FATHER is the ONLY true God.

Ed

edpobre · Nov 11, 2001

PrinceJeff,

I wrote: How can you believe your theology is right when you don't even have faith and trust in what Jesus says?

Your reply:I ask you the same question. By the way I do believe what he says. Get your facts straight.

If you TRULY believe that Jesus is a MAN (John 8:40) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3) because Jesus said these, why do you PERSIST in your doctrine that Jesus is God? Are you being honest or are you simply a hypocrital blind fanatic?

I wrote:Jesus says he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). But you don't believe him! You believe Thomas and Isaiah more than him. Yet you say you accept Jesus as your LORD and EXPECT him to save you.

Your reply:1 John 5:7 says the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one. Are you calling John a liar? Oh by the way Ed, He has already saved me and is my Lord.

YOU are the LIAR PJ. the verse does NOT say that all three are one "God." Read the verse again and you will SEE (if you are not blind and ignorant) that there is a period AFTER the word "one."

And no matter how loudly you may shout that Jesus has already saved you, you CANNOT change what the Bible says: "...he who does NOT believe is condemned already..." (John 3:1 .

And there is a world of difference between your saying that Jesus is your Lord and Jesus believing that you have TRULY accepted him as your Lord. Listen to what Jesus says to you: "But why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do NOT do the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46) Anyone who HEARS these sayings of mine and does NOT do them, will be like a foolish man..." (Matt. 7:26).

I wrote: Is this your way of showing Jesus how you trust him and accept his authority over you as your LORD? And you want me to think and behave like you?

Your reply:We don't think and behave like a heretic (you), who says his little group of people with some misinterpreted marquee above their church door is the only people who are saved. We also do not behave like someone who denies scriptures and prooftexts the Word to fit his FALSE beliefs. We also don't call people names like you do. We do not exclude anyone from Heaven just because they do not worship as we do.

YOU have been the one calling Bro. Manalo and me names. I only quote what the Bible says about people like you.

You say you do not behave like someone who denies scriptures yet you deny John 8:40 and John 17:3 which say that Jesus is a MAN and the FATHER (not the son) is the ONLY true God.

You say you do not behave like someone who prooftexts the Word to fit his FALSE beliefs yet you prooftext 1 John 5:7 and ADD the word "God" after the sentence to make the verse FIT your FALSE Trinity belief. You also substitute the word "Jesus" for "word" in John 1:1 to make the verse FIT your FALSE belief that Jesus is God. Who is the LIAR and the LOON PJ?

Ed

ZoneChaos · Nov 11, 2001

No Zone. I'm not saying that anyone who is a "Christian" is a member of Iglesia Ni Cristo. On the contrary, what I'm saying is anyone who is a member of the Iglesia Ni Cristo is a TRUE Christian.

What came first, the True Christian or the "Iglesia Ni Cristo"?

Do you have God?

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