Whats going to make all the Isreali's go back to Isreal?

applepowerpc said:

I don't even know where to start. First, you say not every Jew TODAY belongs to Judah or Levi, and you back that up by mentioning Jews from 2000 years ago. That is clearly flawed.

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Using the Bible as evidence is flawed?

applepowerpc said:

Second, Numbers 1 is the census of the tribes. The 12 tribes are listed out by name, and Levi is plainly not one of them:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=4&chapter=1&version=31&context=chapter

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There are twenty different listings of the tribes throughout the bible. It depends on the context who is present and who is absent. There are actually 13 tribes in all, Joseph was given a double blessing and his two sons were adopted by his father.

Since you are referring to the Numbers listing I have to ask, did you read What it said?

Num 1: The Lord spoke to Moses in the Tent of Meeting in the Desert of Sinai on the first day of the second month of the second year after the Israelites came out of Egypt. He said: 2 "Take a census of the whole Israelite community by their clans and families, listing every man by name, one by one. 3 You and Aaron are to number by their divisions all the men in Israel twenty years old or more who are able to serve in the army.

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This is clearly listing only men twenty and up and only those who are able to serve in the army. G-d made it clear that the Levites were to serve him only.

In Numbers 18:6 we read ( and many other places)

And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: to you they are given as a gift for the L-RD, to do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

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The 144,000 in Revelation cannot be relevant, since Jews don't even believe in the New Testament.

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We don't? ( there are many of us nowadays that do).

Third:


I'm sure you've got Aaron's DNA sitting around somewhere? Because first you've got the common-sense issue that before you can DNA test anything, you first have to produce the DNA of _one single Israelite_. Second, it's incredibly odd that "DNA testing" has proved the Levitical heritage of the black Ethiopian Jews, white Jews, and Yemenite Jews all at the same time. And third, common sense should raise anyone's eyebrow that 6 million white people, in a narrow strip of land surrounded by a bunch of Arabs, somehow share the same semitic DNA. For so many people with Middle Eastern descent, they sure don't look it. But that's just common sense talking....

If you want to debate the case further, I will be happy to share with the rest of this board how rabbinical Jewish history traces itself to the Khazar Empire, in RUSSIA. Not Israel. And how Gog and Magog can mean "north" and "from the north". Which is exactly where these rabbinical Jews invaded Israel from.

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No, I am not cohanim, only Levite, only under Yeshua am I but that's a different priesthood. As far as the markers, G-d is colorblind, yes there are many dark skinned Jews, I have personally met them and some that even believe in Yeshua as their Messiah! I am grateful that my G-d does not operate on 'common sense' but rather, uncommon.

Shalom

bytheway said:

Ezekiel 36
24 " 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will save you from all your uncleanness.


This doesnt sound like the current Israel!!!!!!!!! Is the current Israel not the real Israel?

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This is in the process of happening. First the bringing back, which is still going on. There are many Jewish believers across Israel, despite it being sort of illegal. G-d is being true to his word, the problem is, before you could look back in history and compare that to the bible, now you are actually living in the time of prophecy unfolding.

ByTheWay said:

Is the current Israel not the real Israel?

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Zayit said:

This is in the process of happening. First the bringing back, which is still going on. There are many Jewish believers across Israel, despite it being sort of illegal. G-d is being true to his word, the problem is, before you could look back in history and compare that to the bible, now you are actually living in the time of prophecy unfolding.

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You can't have a 'real Israel' without Jesus Christ.
'Real Israel' hath both the Son and the Father.

Or as John told us:

"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." I John 2:23

There continued coming to Christ then, is what is important. Not their location.

Dave Taylor said:

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You can't have a 'real Israel' without Jesus Christ.
'Real Israel' hath both the Son and the Father.

Or as John told us:

"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." I John 2:23

There continued coming to Christ then, is what is important. Not their location.

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Hi Dave,

“Real Israel” will have the wicked within her purged. Not one member of the "Israel" you see can be lost.

Frank

bytheway said:

Hi i've got some questions,

How many Isralites are there in the world that dont live in Isreal?

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I don't have the statistics--but most Jews who are not living in Israel, probably live in NYC/Brooklyn or the Bronx. Hitler pretty much wiped them out in Europe during the WWII Holocaust.

Gods going to bring all the Isralites back to Isreal, whats he going use to make them go to Isreal?

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God is in control and He will accomplish all that He has promised to the nation of Israel.
Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; (Isaiah 43:5)

I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; (Isaiah 43:6)

How is Isreal going to get the rest of its land back?

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The Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 12 & 15 is an everlasting covenant. What God has promised, He will do.


Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: (Genesis 12:1)


And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: (Genesis 12:2)

And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. (Genesis 12:3)

And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it. (Genesis 15:7)

And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? (Genesis 15:8)

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: (Genesis 15:18)
The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, (Genesis 15:19)
And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, (Genesis 15:20)
[FONT=&quot]And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. (Genesis 15:21)[/FONT]

And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. (Genesis 17:7)

Does everyone who is an Isralite know that they are one?

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Probably not--but God knows who the children of Israel are.

Do all the Isralites know what tribe they belong to?

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Since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, all the geneologies are also gone--God knows who and where all the tribes are. None are "lost"

Praise the Lord!!

Hi everyone,

I remember reading about some people living in India. They beleive they are Jews from Israel of long ago. Some believe them to be true decendents others do not. I would think dna would establish the truth, no?

Here is a link to the article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/17/windia17.xml

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/012/13.22.html

There is also some talk of the Pathans of Afghanistan being decendents?

The 144,000 in Revelation cannot be relevant, since Jews don't even believe in the New Testament.

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We don't? ( there are many of us nowadays that do).

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If that's the case, then Revelation also has a passage regarding lukewarm people.

No, I am not cohanim, only Levite, only under Yeshua am I but that's a different priesthood.

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Well...I am.

I Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Zayit said:

[FONT=&quot] Not every Jew today belongs to only Levi or Judah. There are other tribes as well that are even mentioned in the Gospels who were know in Jesus' time. For a couple, Asher and Benyamin.[/FONT]

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It’s because a lot of people unfortunately confuse the term Jew with representing all Hebrew people. Look at it this way, you can be a Californian and also be an American. However just because you are an American does not mean you are a Californian. Such is the case with the Hebrew people. Jews are of a specific tribe primarily consisting of the tribe of Judah so Jews are also Hebrew. However not every Hebrew is a Jew because not all Hebrew people descend from the line of Judah. However all Hebrews descend from Jacob. This is where the understanding of the lost tribes that are scattered among the Gentiles comes from. They are not lost to God.

The term "Jew" has been redefined many times, the same way Mormons define themselves as "Christians" and Jesus as "a" son of God. Even many self-described Jews don't claim to be from Judah.

bytheway said:

Hi i've got some questions,

How many Isralites are there in the world that dont live in Isreal?

Gods going to bring all the Isralites back to Isreal, whats he going use to make them go to Isreal?

How is Isreal going to get the rest of its land back?

Does everyone who is an Isralite know that they are one?

Do all the Isralites know what tribe they belong to?

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Don't mean to sound rude, but what is the point of these questions?

Kingdom_Come said:

It’s because a lot of people unfortunately confuse the term Jew with representing all Hebrew people. Look at it this way, you can be a Californian and also be an American. However just because you are an American does not mean you are a Californian. Such is the case with the Hebrew people. Jews are of a specific tribe primarily consisting of the tribe of Judah so Jews are also Hebrew. However not every Hebrew is a Jew because not all Hebrew people descend from the line of Judah. However all Hebrews descend from Jacob. This is where the understanding of the lost tribes that are scattered among the Gentiles comes from. They are not lost to God.

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The above is incorrect.

Quite simply: The term Hebrew describes blood-line, ancestory.

The term Jew describes the belief, the religion.

The majority of the Jews in the world today are actually of Russian/European ancestory. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi). In any case, there are very few, if any, people alive today who can prove they are of true Hebrew descent, the blood line has been mixed and essentially lost over the centuries of the Jewish dispersion, as well as the records.

Affinity said:

The above is incorrect.

Quite simply: The term Hebrew describes blood-line, ancestory.

The term Jew describes the belief, the religion.

The majority of the Jews in Israel today are actually of Russian ancestory. In any case, there are very few, if any, people alive today who can prove they are of true Hebrew descent, the blood line has been mixed and essentially lost over the centuries of the Jewish dispersion, as well as the records.

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Excellent post. The muslims feel they have replaced Israel as God's chosen for example.

And don't forget that the 12 sons of Jacob came from 4 different women, 2 of them servant girls. The Nation/House of Judah itself consists of Benjamin, Levi [Priesthood] and Judah. Jesus replaced the the Priesthood of Levi. [genesis 49-Sceptre of Judah]

the blood line has been mixed and essentially lost over the centuries of the Jewish dispersion, as well as the records.

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Not to mention that a) According to Judaism's own religion, blood line is traced on the MOTHER'S side. How biblical is that? And b) all this really doesn't matter anyway.

bytheway said:

Gods going to bring all the Isralites back to Isreal, whats he going use to make them go to Isreal?

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"Behold, the days are coming , declares the LORD, when I shall raise up for David a righteous branch; and He will reign as king and act wisely and do justice and righteousness in the land. In His day Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely; and this is His name by which He will be called, the LORD our righteousness. Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when they will no longer say, as the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but, as the LORD lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them. Then they will live on their own soil" (Jer. 23:5-8).

The above restoration is in connection with Christ's reign at the second advent. Jesus further states in Matthew that Israel's regathering will be accomplished by angelic means.

"But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other" (Matt. 24:29-31).

In Christ,
Tracey

the blood line has been mixed and essentially lost over the centuries of the Jewish dispersion, as well as the records.

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How so?

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Many different ways. Way #1: Rabbinical Judaism, which is basically what Jews of today are, believe blood line is passed down on the MOTHER'S side. That is unbiblical. Just because you're a Jew in man's eyes or your own eyes does not make you Jewish in God's eyes. We're talking thousands of years, and if you traced your lineage through the mother's side even once, you're not legit. Agree?

Way #2: Research Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. Ashkenazis are converts; no two ways about it. They trace back to the Khazar Empire, which converted as an entire nation to Judaism around the time of the Crusades. 85-95% of today's Jews are Ashkenazi. Sephardic Jews, who at least had some blood claim way back around that same time, intermarried heavily with the Ashkenazis.

http://www.christusrex.org/www2/koestler/

Even Sephardic Jews, though, were mixed blood even back then. They were dispersed and intermarrying with a number of different ethnicities for a good thousand years since the Roman exile, and that's BEFORE the Khazars.

Way #3: Where are the records? No one has produced any.

Way #4: DNA testing is bogus. In order to do that you first have to produce authentic Jewish DNA from the BC times.


And finally, all this DOESN'T MATTER. When you're standing before Judgment, it's all about Christ. Whether your Mom or Dad is Jewish isn't going to save you.