AIDS clock

RenHoek · Jan 12, 2006

we want to call many things that are normal sin

Most sin is normal to a sin nature.

1Co 10:13 -

No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

Communication and education are certainly the key. But just as you cant force someone to read the Bible, you cant force worldly views of sex either in a scholastic environment. Again, proper parenting is the key.

But Sex is NOT the only to get infected......

But is it not that, and drug use, that account for most of where it is today? I certainly have an easier time feeling bad for those who got it from a dentist or Chinese blood vats(???). But again this is me.

I am surprised no one has brought this up yet, and I did not want to be the one to do it, but here goes: :help:

Is it not possible that this is a result of (in my understanding of the Bible) a lifestyle not in conjunction with the guidelines set in the Bible?

It seems to me this is, at least, a possibility, and, at most, cause and effect.

I am not saying this is Gods judgment, although I cannot say it is not. Rather I think God knew this type of thing would be brought on by that lifestyle so He warns us to stay away from it. Just like when we steal, there is an innocent victim, so to with this sin (obviously there are those who disagree with this) there are the innocent victims. This lines up well in my head, although I am sure I will hear about it

All this said. Christianity was spread around the world by the compassion that Christians showed to the weak and the sick. This is not to say we go out and slam people for what they did, or are doing. We need to reflect Christs love and let them come to Christ, if they do, based on that. Throwing Bibles never did anything but leave bruises.

I stand tall waiting for the fiery arrows. :prayer:

Phred · Jan 12, 2006

fact: People are addicted to illegal drugs
fact: HIV can be transmitted via the sharing of needles

While I don't wish to condone IV drug use I also am realistic enough to recognize that there are people out there who are addicted and will be shooting up with whatever they can find. Of course, the best solution would be to take each and every IV drug user and clean them up, get them jobs and restore them to a way of life that isn't dangerous to anyone. Well, that's nice but in the real world we have neither the resources nor the will to do this. The reality of the situation is that there are going to be IV drug users no matter what I do.

So what do I do? I would choose to mitigate the transmission of HIV by giving IV drug users clean needles in exchange for old. This doesn't in any way address the drug problem as they're going to shoot up whether I give them needles or not. What it does is it brings them in contact with people who care everytime they trade needles and it hinders the transmission of HIV.

Or, I can refuse to give them clean needles and protect my precious morality at the cost of infecting others.

So it's either about me, or it's about them.

What would Jesus do?

.

Phred · Jan 12, 2006

RenHoek said:
Is it not possible that this is a result of (in my understanding of the Bible) a lifestyle not in conjunction with the guidelines set in the Bible?

Nope. If it were you'd see Muslims, atheists and Hindus affected far more often than Christians. I know you'd love to see people punished for not having to follow the same rules you do... but that's ridiculous.

RenHoek · Jan 12, 2006

I know you'd love to see people punished for not having to follow the same rules you do

This is what I was expecting. Where exactly did I say this

.
This was a hypothesis. I think all countries and peoples have problems in conjunction with sin. Different problems for different sins. Just like people have different problems based on the sins they are given to.

Phred · Jan 12, 2006

RenHoek said:
This is what I was expecting. Where exactly did I say this .
This was a hypothesis. I think all countries and peoples have problems in conjunction with sin. Different problems for different sins. Just like people have different problems based on the sins they are given to.

Countries don't have problems with sin, religions have problems with sin. Only a theocracy like Iran gives a hoot about sin.

RenHoek · Jan 12, 2006

Countries don't have problems with sin

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but just because you say it, does not make it fact. My contention is that they do. A country is more than the government, or do want to be held accountable for W? Perhaps we should agree to disagree.

Phred · Jan 12, 2006

RenHoek said:
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but just because you say it, does not make it fact. My contention is that they do. A country is more than the government, or do want to be held accountable for W? Perhaps we should agree to disagree.

I'd rather we just posted more accurately. A country is usually referred to as a group of people tied together by a common government. If you don't mean that "Germany has problems with sin" but rather than "Most people in Germany have a problem with sin" then please say so.

I'm not trying to be picky and avoid the topic. What I said earlier about following rules... is it accurate in your case or not?

RenHoek · Jan 12, 2006

All people have a problem with sin. That should keep us on the same page.

LittleNipper · Jan 12, 2006

belladonic-haze said:
That is the problem....we want to call many things that are normal sin...that confuses young people....AND not all people are Christian and believe in the biblical sins.....and there are Christians that do not believe in many biblical sins
You can not force children to read the bible if they are not Christian....or even if they are.

What we can do is stop acting like sex is a dirty thing. Teens explore, discover and learn...better to learn it the right way then end up in a coffin because sex education is censured......(or pregnant or another STD or whatever can go wrong...not to mention the suicide because kids are homosexual and treated like dirt and thrown out of the house by their parents).....

I think parents need to be educated as well....Calling sex before marriage sin and not talk about it or just preach to be abstain is NOT what keeps teens from not having sex......and the risk that they have unsafe sex, because they use the pill instead of condoms is not worth keeping silent or acting on old...very old ideas about sexuality and sin...

But Sex is NOT the only to get infected......

Let's think about that and talk about that as well here...or we forget a large group of HIV+ and AIDS patients!!!

Well, you cannot force anyone to do anything but, if they wish to attend the party, they can be invited only IF they will play by the rules. I find that this works.

ottaia · Jan 12, 2006

LittleNipper said:
Well, you cannot force anyone to do anything but, if they wish to attend the party, they can be invited only IF they will play by the rules. I find that this works.

And those rules would be your rules (or at least your definitions of the rules which is the same thing) right?

belladonic-haze · Jan 12, 2006

LittleNipper said:
Well, you cannot force anyone to do anything but, if they wish to attend the party, they can be invited only IF they will play by the rules. I find that this works.

What rules? There are 6 billion people and more in this world.....and it is filled with different cultures, different religions, poverty and with low educated people....They ALL should be treated the same, with respect love and compassion, no matter how they got AIDS.

I really do not understand why it is such a BIG issue on how they got it....and that people have more compassion with those who got it by something else then sexual intercourse. All these people are somebody's son or daughter. Would you tell a mother who's gay son got infected that he got it because he did not go by rules? Would you treat her son less compassionate because he got it through gay sex? I wonder if you can look her straight in the eyes and say that....What is that with these double standards? Do you treat a patient with lungcancer different because he or she got it by smoking. They did not follow the rules....so be it????

That really ****es me off, that so-called Christianity that uses double standards.....

Phred · Jan 12, 2006

RenHoek said:
All people have a problem with sin. That should keep us on the same page.

I don't. Sin is defined as "missing the mark" which, in this case, is God. I don't much care who "misses the mark" of God because that's completely open to interpretation. Saying "God damn" is blasphemous according to some... yet I don't have a problem with it.

Sin is a religious label I'm not willing to use to describe secular issues.

Phred · Jan 12, 2006

LittleNipper said:
Well, you cannot force anyone to do anything but, if they wish to attend the party, they can be invited only IF they will play by the rules. I find that this works.

That's why we have a constitution that prevents you from defining who gets invited.

reverend B · Jan 12, 2006

can someone who feels that aids is God's way of weeding out the chaf explain to me how we lost an american like arthur ashe to this pernicious disease?

rahul_sharma · Jan 12, 2006

belladonic-haze said:
So ABC

Abstain
Be faithful
use Condoms

and educate...educate teens....adults....everybody!!!!

yes!!!

Know Aids

for

No Aids

kiwimac · Jan 12, 2006

Unfortunately,

God, in Christ, has thrown out the rules in favour of simple inclusion. Christ by in His life made quite clear that the 'Imperial Rule of God" was about those whom the religious folk of his day (and seemingly today as well) would have nothing to do.

In His day he was called a 'glutton and a drunkard', today probably he would be called any number of names including an "abetter in sin" because he was then and is now more interested in PEOPLE than in the rules.

Kiwimac

RenHoek · Jan 12, 2006

Would you tell a mother who's gay son got infected that he got it because he did not go by rules?

No, but to some of us, this is how it appears. Again, this does not mean we should have any less compassion on the sufferer. But it is frustrating to see so many people succumb to the disease when they know how not to get it. This is also not to say that they deserve it, that everyone knows how not to get it, or any of the other inevitable responses I will get. I will liken it to a drunk driver that gets maimed in a one-car accident. Am I the only one who has a hard time feeling bad for them? I suppose it is more my issue than theirs as I am not a sympathetic person by nature. Please throw rocks at me if you have no struggles of your own.

Do you treat a patient with lungcancer different because he or she got it by smoking.

Treat them different, no. Feel different inside, yes. Just being honest.

herev · Jan 12, 2006

reverend B said:
and i see what you are doing as the "...boasting of what he has and does". your conviction that you are right to the exclusion of all others that are obviously operating from an intent to save the lost to me is prideful and in the way it is expressed lacks either kindness or gentleness. my posts have sadly carried the same weakness. i have prayed on it and have decided that one of us being unfriendly is too much, but i only have control of half the situation. i hope your last paragraph is not an implication that i am not a Christian. that is strongly against the rules here and can get you removed from the forums altogether. it seems we all step out of the light now and again. i have in this thread. i extend my hand and an apology to you and to everyone on this thread that has watched my catty behavior. my positions i stand by, of course, but not my attitude.

you are a big man, rev.

praying · Jan 12, 2006

reverend B said:
can someone who feels that aids is God's way of weeding out the chaf explain to me how we lost an american like arthur ashe to this pernicious disease?

I thought he died of a heart attack?

kdet · Jan 12, 2006

While in the hospital for brain surgery, Arthur received the overwhelming news that he was HIV-Positive. He had contracted the virus through a tainted transfusion during his two heart surgeries, almost certainly the second in 1983. Wishing to maintain his and his familys privacy, and well-aware of the prejudice and paranoia that was often associated with the disease during its first years of existence, the Ashes, with help from close friends and trusted medical advisors, were able to keep the startling information from the publics awareness. At issue were Arthur and Jeannes desire to raise their daughter Camera in as normal an environment as possible, a desire that would have been made impossible with a public disclosure.

Because of pressure from a national newspaper that was indicating they had on good record that he had AIDS, Arthur, rather than let the rumors persist, elected to make his condition known to the world through a scheduled a press conference on the morning of April 8, 1992. The knowledge that his life and the lives of his family members would forever be altered was foremost on Arthurs mind. After his admission to the world, an outpouring of compassion and support arrived, inspiring Arthur to begin AAFDA. This outpouring can only perhaps be compared to the day Lou Gehrig announced his retirement and contraction of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Arthur Ashe passed away on February 6, 1993, having raised awareness of AIDS to a level where paranoia was no longer the overriding emotion.

http://www.cmgww.com/sports/ashe/about/bio2.htm

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