Are Mormons Christians?

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Sitswithamouse

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Swart said:
The fuss about Kolob comes from the Book of Abraham chapter three:


This is where the "God lives on Kolob" stuff comes from.

Thanks for the references.
I will look them up later as I am about to go out. As I said before I have never heard of Kolob, or was ever taught it by any missionaries or from anyone in the church I attended at the time.

Very interesting. Thanks :)
 
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A New Dawn

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Swart said:
The CoJCoLDS usues the standard KJV of the Bible.
I wouldn't say they use the "standard" KJV. They use a KJV with the changes of the JST added in at the bottom so that the JST is just as evident as the KJV verses. And the only reason they don't use the Inspired Version is because of copyright problems and not wanting to buy something from the enemy. ;)
 
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A New Dawn

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Swart said:
You'll need to take that one up with "A New Dawn", she's the expert in these parts on plural marriage and Joseph Smith. :)

Just don't go calling her a Mormon. ^_^
:thumbsup:

(especially not with that little "S" icon thingy up by my name.)
 
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Ephraimsdaughter said:
Since I cannot answer this in the Apologetics forum as I have to have 100 posts, I'll do it here.

If to you being a Christian means one who believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who is your personal Saviour, who atoned for your sins and gave His life upon the Cross, who arose from the dead after three days, and who after 40 days ascended into Heaven, and will come again then Yes, Mormons are Christians. :amen:

So let us break it down step by step. #1 being a Christian means one who believes that Jesus is the Christ. Yes, this is most important, but Jesus himself warned us, there were many false Christ, so it is more important to know the Christ of the Bible. #2 the Son of the Living God. Here we have two things which mormons and Christians differ on. (A) Son, the LDS Son has a brother name Satan, the Christian Son has no brother. The LDS Son has a heavenly mother, the Christian Son does not. #3 personal Saviour, The LDS personal Saviour visited Joseph Smith, The Christian Savior said, "As i go, shall i return. The Christian Savior has yet to return. the personal Saviour of LDS wants you to believe in a fairytale book called the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham. The Christian Savior said to watch out for False Prophets.
#4, who atone for your sins. In mormonism the atonement took place in a garden, and atones only for pass sins. For a Christian the atonement took place on the Cross, and Christ atonement covers all sins but one.
#5 gave his life upon the Cross. the question is, if he atoned for our sins in a garden, what was the Cross for? # 6,7,8, yes the Christain Savior did and will come again.
 
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OnTheWay

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DjDan said:
Well... as the exmormon that you are (or whatever colourful title you may wish to give yourself)... surely you should have learnt that we do not teach that God lives on Kolob.

and to your other point... i wonder... do you know the Mormon concept of God? (or did you attend church.. but not listen? - perhaps you misunderstood like the Kolob part above)

Explain the concepts found in scripture... and see if LDS concept does not relate (?)

Right, God lives on a planet the orbits the star Kolob.
John 4:24 God is Spirit. Mormonism is nothing but the reductionism of one rather intelligent, but highly uneducated, individual. If one traces the early history of the Mormon church Smith started off fulling embracing many aspects of Christianity such as the Trinity and later invented weird doctrines regarding the god that lives in the Kolobian star system. Not to mention the terribly sill doctrine that was taught regarding Adam as being god.
The polythesitic mormon religion has nothing to do with Christianity. Like the Shaker cult, JW's, 7th day's, and a host of others it is a sect loosely based on Christianity.
 
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OnTheWay

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DjDan said:
Question for you: where do you believe God lives?
(he must live somewhere right? is it so shocking to give this 'place' a name? not that that is what mormons have done.... but even if they said he lived on a place caled... 'such and such a name'... would that be heresy?)


The Living God, unlike the Mormon god, is omnipresent and beyond human understanding in essence. He does not live anywhere and yet is everywhere at once, as He is not limited by time and space like material beings of which He is not one. God is without beginning, the mormon god is nothing but a created being.
 
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OnTheWay said:
The Living God, unlike the Mormon god, is omnipresent and beyond human understanding in essence. He does not live anywhere and yet is everywhere at once, as He is not limited by time and space like material beings of which He is not one. God with without beginning, the mormon god is nothing but a created being.
Excerpt form something Ive written.

[font=&quot]
Apexs' real name said:
For “Ancient philosophy could not comprehend the creation of the world by God. God’s supreme perfection prevented his entering into direct relation with the world; nature is too weak to sustain the immediate action of the divinity. God could not create or act upon his creature except through an intermediary… This intermediary is the Word or Logos, necessarily unequal to the supreme God.” (Mourret-Thompson, History of the Catholic Church vol. 2 p.13). From this Greek idea, or philosophy, we get the idea that God is intangible, unthinkable, unchanging and other similar ideas come from. It was this kind of assimilation of foreign ideas that Paul warns of in Colossians 2:8 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” Another example is the idea that matter is evil therefore God may have no part in it. At first Christianity believed that God is, or at least, resembled a man. Origen Writes “The Jews indeed, but also some of our people supposed that God should be understood as a man, that is, adorned with human members and human appearance.” (Origen, Homilies on Genesis 3:1, translated by Ronald E. Heine (Washington DC.: The Catholic University of America Press, 1982), 89.). However the philosophers had a different, conflicting, idea. The previous quote by Origen continues with “But the philosophers despise these stories as fabulous and formed in the likeness of poetic fictions.” (See previous source.). It was no the early Christians who believed God to not have, or resemble, a human body but the philosophers who believed so. “For Plato, the Supreme Being is absolute goodness, and since matter, for him, is evil and a hindrance to the perfect expression of the ‘idea’ God is immaterial” (Barker, James L. The Divine Church vol. 2, p.25.).
[/font]
 
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buddy mack

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Ephraimsdaughter said:
Since I cannot answer this in the Apologetics forum as I have to have 100 posts, I'll do it here.

If to you being a Christian means one who believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who is your personal Saviour, who atoned for your sins and gave His life upon the Cross, who arose from the dead after three days, and who after 40 days ascended into Heaven, and will come again then Yes, Mormons are Christians. :amen:

i leave it up to the individuall on words as to whether they think of themself's as Christian. Only God knows our hearts and minds. If someone asked me if i thought they were Christians the answer i would give is: as a person what make you a Christian, and then go on from their answer whether i might agree or not.
once again it is really up to the individual.
 
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A New Dawn

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Apex said:
Is that a threat?;)
Swart was remembering back to when, as an RLDS, I had to note in practically every post that I was not LDS. He says not to call me LDS for that reason. I added another reason to not call me LDS. :p
 
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Apex said:
Not really... I havent really had time to post here much anyways. Wont have much latter this week either because of exams... :( All I have to do is just get through this week with out going insane. Two exams, a lab practical, a paper, and a group speech, on top of all the normal work.

remember to drink your coffee black it helps keep u awake during exams. and a really good cheat sheet can't hurt.:) just kidding on that one
 
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A New Dawn

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Apex said:
Not really... I havent really had time to post here much anyways. Wont have much latter this week either because of exams... :( All I have to do is just get through this week with out going insane. Two exams, a lab practical, a paper, and a group speech, on top of all the normal work.
Well, yes, it is me, Jenda. ^_^

Good luck with the exams. :thumbsup:
 
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Swart

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Melancholy said:
Thanks for the references.
I will look them up later as I am about to go out. As I said before I have never heard of Kolob, or was ever taught it by any missionaries or from anyone in the church I attended at the time.

That's probably because it has no exegetical application. The only way most people know about it is by reading the BoA, anti-mormon literature or when singing "If you could hie to Kolob". :sick:

Similarly, you probably also weren't directly taught about Elijah condemning the priests of Baal to death, Elisha cursing his detractors and causing bears to tear them to pieces or Josiah ordering the non-temple priests sacrificed on their own altars.
 
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OnTheWay

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Apex said:
Excerpt form something Ive written.

That has to be the worst peice of "theology" I've ever seen.
1.Assumption of foreign notions. During the American 19th century it was very much a part of the pop culture that the American aborignials were "lost tribes of Israel." This absurd, and long discredited, belief is the basis of Mormonism. Smith simply wrote his own version of "A View of the Hebrews" and passed it off as historical reality.
2.That God has common elements with man in no way means He is a created being with a body. God as a will, emotions, and so on like a man. God is without beginning and without end. He is not merely a created being. He is not one of many gods, He is the only God.
This Mormon tripe theology has nothing in common with Christianity. Furthermore, it is only recently that the Mormons have even wanted to be considered part of Christianity. Simply using the name Jesus Christ does not make one a Christian, it merely means you use a very strange construct of Jesus.
 
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OnTheWay said:
That has to be the worst peice of "theology" I've ever seen.
1.Assumption of foreign notions. During the American 19th century it was very much a part of the pop culture that the American aborignials were "lost tribes of Israel." This absurd, and long discredited, belief is the basis of Mormonism. Smith simply wrote his own version of "A View of the Hebrews" and passed it off as historical reality.
2.That God has common elements with man in no way means He is a created being with a body. God as a will, emotions, and so on like a man. God is without beginning and without end. He is not merely a created being. He is not one of many gods, He is the only God.
This Mormon tripe theology has nothing in common with Christianity. Furthermore, it is only recently that the Mormons have even wanted to be considered part of Christianity. Simply using the name Jesus Christ does not make one a Christian, it merely means you use a very strange construct of Jesus.
What I wrote had nothing to do with America or Mormons. All you did was rant about stuff you didnt even support and talked about things that were not even mentioned in what I wrote.
 
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