Suicide a sin?

God forgives for any sin , repented or not. If a Christian person commits suicide ,they will still go to Heaven.

If the suicide is commited without a clear mind, muddled by despair, depression and other things, it is possible that the sin was not really a rebellion against God.

However, if someone willfully and consciously destroys their own life, I don't see how they couldn't be making a final and ultimate act of rebellion against Him.

Dying for a cause is a whole different matter, though.

I do not concern myself with who is and is not doomed to hell for eternal torment, that is for God's sole discretion.

However, I do see suicide as an incredibly selfish act. I would think that the pain and suffering of loved one that results from the action will be on the head of the offender. Perhaps I am abrasive, but I have little patience for most people who claim 'suicidal' tendancies. Is life so utterly unenjoyable? Are ones loved ones not enough to make one consider a serious attitude adjustment?


... anyway ...

I agree with your last post kennedychick.
As for your first post, I'm sure we sin a lot more than we repent anyway, so for a Christian, forgiveness necessarily comes before repentance.

kennedychick2004 said:

you've obviously never been, nor known someone that has been diagnosed with depression.

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Does clinical depression free someone of accountability? There are avenues for treating clinical depression, and I am not just talking about drugs. Does someone who is depressed need to be constantly handled with white gloves? I believe that disorder would often best be treated by a method of psychology that will encourage taking honest insightful looks at behavior, and cognitive steps toward improvement. Too often I believe people who suffer depression latch on to those (including psychologists) who will enable them, not challenge them, support them in their misery or dole out placebo.

I have known people who are clinically depressed, and call me completely abrasive but I would have a very difficult time opting to live with someone who has these tendancies.

One example of an officially diagnosed 'depressed' person with whom I have had close contact has test driven every drug, seen several psychologists (changing every time one rubs her the wrong way) over years, willingly destroyed her marraige, knowingly caused every person in her wake as much greif as possible, and learned to take advantage of the government (disability) to the point that she does not leave her bed. She is resourceful, intelligent and aside from her ever increasing weight a very physically healthy indivivual. She has used these God given resources to abuse the system and enable her problem.

This case is extreme, but it is one very obvious reason why I do not think of 'depression' as 'freedom from accountability.'

I think when someone tries to take their life they've by definition reached such a state of depression and self destruction that loading on them the additional belief they will be ****** to Hell is only making things worse....

Many people also engage in semi destructive acts much of the time such as by over eating, smoking when they know it's harmful, being involved in reckless endangering behaviour such as speeding in their cars and so... Most of these behaviours stem from a shaky and weak self image as it is...so adding that they are sinning and going to Hell only compounds the wretched view they have already of themselves.

There is an expression i heard once that "the church shoots it's wounded" and i think this belief that suicidal people are going to Hell and so on could be an example of this.

First we need to see that suicidal depressed people are identified and treated... They need God's healing not condemnation from their Church.

Maybe special prayers or services could be held in churches asking for healing for these depressed people.... and it is also the love of the fellow believers that can help turn them around I think.

- Art

holo said:

I agree with your last post kennedychick.
As for your first post, I'm sure we sin a lot more than we repent anyway, so for a Christian, forgiveness necessarily comes before repentance.

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holo, do you know what a cynic is?

cyn·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snk)
n.
A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.
A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative.
Cynic A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achieving virtue.

http://dictionary.reference.com/



I do not consider myself a cynic. I am surprised you would advertise yourself as such when your opinions clearly do not jive with the label, and you would disagree with someone who's opinion is a bit more on the 'cynical' side.

Just a thought.

Since I believe that we are always convered by grace once we enter into a saving relationship with Christ, suicide would be forgiven by a non believer.

Suicide is cleary against God's will for the believer, (1)because such a person is the temple of the Holy Spirit, an (2)God has 5 purposes for our lives (Purpose Driven Life),

Hi all!

We (orthodox Jews) infer the ban on suicide from Genesis 9:5 ("And surely your blood of your lives will I require..."). The Jewish attitude towards suicide, as opposed to selfless martyrdom, is rather complicated. On the one hand, while voluntary and premeditated suicide is considered to be reprehensible and an affront to God, all suicides are a priori assumed to have done so without the necessary premeditation, whether from pathological depression, not being in possession of his faculties, or from having been under duress, etc. until it can be proven otherwise. "Duress" mainly means the necessity of having to kill one's self (or consent to your being killed) rather than violate one of the three sins that a Jew must never commit even at the cost of his/her life (murder, adultery/incest, and idolatry), or to prevent being captured alive by heathen if this would involve a desecration of God's Name and would, in itself, be a sanctification of God's Name. The suicide of King Saul is a good example of the latter (our Sages do not condemn King Saul, "because he knew that the Philistines would do with him as they pleased, and put him to death"); the suicide of Samson is another. The mass suicides which took place during the Middle Ages in order to avoid forced baptism, or the March 1190 mass suicide by the Jews of York, England (see http://www.bispham2.freeserve.co.uk/castles/york.htm, scroll down to the last 3 paragraphs), are generally deemed to be martyrs who died in the sanctification of God's Name.

Jews who (God forbid!) commit voluntary, willful and premeditated suicide (and who are ruled as such by an orthodox rabbinical court; see above) are not to be mourned for; i.e. surviving first-degree relatives do not observe the usual Jewish mourning rites & practices. There is a custom that the kaddish prayer be said for 12 months (it's usually said for 11 months only) for a willful suicide, the assumption being that his/her soul needs the extra month of having kaddish recited for it for an additional month.

The above being said, as an orthodox Jew, I strongly oppose "assisted suicide" a la "Dr." Jack Kevorkian. What he does is cold-blooded murder. Judaism teaches that we do not enjoy proprietary rights over either our bodies or our souls, neither is ours to do with as we please. (Orthodox) Judaism does not hold "quality of life" to be a valid consideration in this context. We believe that ALL life is precious & holy and that such as we are incapable of deciding when "quality of life" is such that ending the life in question is warranted.

While nothing may be done (under Jewish law) to shorten the life of an ill person, if someone is really terminal & is really at death's door (or "has one foot in the next world" as we say), one need not, should not, take measures that would detain a soul that has already begun its journey to the next world. There's an account in the Talmud of a great sage who was terminally ill & was clearly dying. His students were gathered around him praying for him. Only their prayers were keeping their teacher's soul in this world. The teacher's maidservant understood this. She took a glass dish, held it up & then let it go. It fell to the floor & shattered. The sudden, sharp noise startled the students & interrupted their prayers. In that instant, their teacher died. The Talmud says that what the maidservant did was praiseworthy & what the students were doing was wrong.

My wife has a cousin here in Israel whose wife gave birth prematurely to twin boys. One boy was much stronger than the other & spent many months in the premie ward in a local hospital. He is now a healthy toddler (thank God!). His twin brother was not so fortunate. He was very weak, had severe, multiple, developmental problems. The doctors gave him absolutely zero chance of surviving more than a few weeks even with the best of care, heroic measures, etc. The parents consulted a very prominent (orthodox) rabbi who is an expert in such matters. He ruled that given what the doctors said, that the infant should be fed/hydrated but that nothing else need be done. The boy died after only a few days in this world (may God bless and keep him!).

I believe that the general principle in (orthodox) Jewish law is that one need not be hooked up to lifesaving machines but that once hooked up, they may not be turned off or unhooked.

Be well!

ssv

Great question!

A Catholic would tell you that a person is not fully culpable if not in full control or overcome by their emotional faculty when they commit suicide. However, by necessity, this can only be used to alleviate the anguish of those who remain after that person departs. Ultimately, no one can know what God's judgement will render.

For the person planning on suicide, she cannot really know if she is in full control, or if she is just trying to justify her decision with "it's not my fault due to my biochemical depression". You just can't know for sure, so it isn't worth the risk.

That is one of the reasons why Catholics confess sins regularly... we know that some things we do will distance ourselves from God, and God wants us to use this opportunity on earth to recognize those decisions, confront them, and purge them forever. This keeps us reconciled with Him, and it heals us spiritually. Suicide precludes that option and leaves you only with doubt, which is perhaps the greatest evil of suicide.

What comfort and explanation does God give to people who have lost some Family member to suicide?

Are there Scripture References that go into this?

CaptainMatt

kennedychick2004: I think there is a sin being forgotten when it comes to suicide. I feel there is a burden being carried on those who may have abused or neglected someone in such a way that would lead them to self hatred.

I read a story about a 8 year old boy who hung himself in his closet after school. My son is 8 and has no concept or understanding of such self destruction. The mother was brought up on charges because the house was Ungodly. The childs room was in such shambles he slept in the closet. Her home was covered in filth and waste. The boy had several signs of depression and was being tormented at school daily. Only to come home to an uncaring, neglectful mother. The very idea that an 8 year old would even consider such a thing, says a lot. We must remember those who suffer from depression and mental illness, who may not have been abused or neglected. Again, this is a topic with so many variations.

I just feel this illustrates why we should reach out and care for one another. I also feel we should never be afraid to report abusive and neglectful behavior against children, animals, or adults.

Excellent topic, btw ...

I believe that everyone here needs to decide what their salvation actually means. This topic also probably hinges on what some may believe about losing salvation. I fully believe that salvation cannot be lost. In John 4:13-14 it says "Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsy again, but whoever drink the water I give him will never thirst..." If this is true (which is it) then how could someone "lose" their salvation? If we have drank the waters of eternal life once, Jesus says we will NEVER thirst again.

The Bible does not say there is any "unpardonable sin" for believers. The blood of Jesus Christ has covered all sins of believers--past or future. This does not give us the right to continue in our sins, however, but we know that Jesus has paid the price for them. His blood was so powerful that it has washed us white as snow--we don't need to continually "become saved" to have that happen.

Forgiveness is very important, but it should not be confused with eternal life. "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life" John 6:47 Our sins can no longer send us to hell. We will face consequences for our sins, but believers do not need to worry about going to hell. Heaven is our only destination--our choices, though, will affect certain aspects of our afterlife. God certainly has rewards ready for those who stay faithful. Suicide, for a believer, is no different than someone who dies without confessing a lustful thought--a Christian's eternal life cannot be taken away due to a sin, or anything else. God promised us that.