Scripturally, what's wrong with polygamy?

Matthew 11:25-26
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

You know I am always amazed at how many people that engage in sin seek to be justified in that sin. But what amazes me more is how they'll turn plain words around just to justify themselves in their sin. The most famous line ever uttered "It depends on what 'is' is." Many will take out their lexicons and twist each word untill they feel better about what they've done before God, knowing all the while that God knows and He will judge all who have not repented.

I am but a simple man with a meger education but I do know the context of a word in sentence when I read it. I know when it is plural or singular.

water_ripple said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't these guys around before Christ?

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You mean David? Yes. Now, please allow me to ask you something: What did the coming of Christ change? Did He not fulfill the redemption of mankind rather than make a bunch of changes to the foundation of His moral absolutes? Again, yes.

And how are men to treat their wife?

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Treatment of wives has nothing to do with a plurality of wives, unless there is abuse. Feministic theology sees a man having a plurality of wives as being a form of abuse, but then we have only a handful of examples of problems and abuse when we are all literally surrounded by countless examples of abuse within monogamy. So, making abuse or neglect a rule rather than the exception in relation to polygyny is really an argument from silence.

And does Christ neglect the emotional or spiritual needs of those that follow Him while another comes into the picture? No Christ does not.

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We are not talking about Christ. However, for the sake of your bringing Him up, He is the one who gave David plural wives, so I would say that it is He who is the One to determine as to if polygyny is some sort of breach of His will for mankind when we see that He clearly had no problem with it, based upon His actions and His words.

He can be in a million different places at once. A human being cannot.

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Which then renders monogamy to be no more perfect than polygyny.

When a man who is already married to one when he is courting another the latter is what his attention is foucsed on. Courting someone takes quite a bit of commitment ya know.

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That varies from person to person. Not everyone fits into the same mold. I know men who courted their wife(s) for about two weeks, and are still happily together after more than 28 years of marriage. One of those men has three wives. I understand your inability to comprehend how this can work since you have never seen it firsthand. I, on the other hand, have been studying it for several years now, and therefore have some insight into this type of family structure.

Dr. Don Dean

swordman said:

You mean David? Yes. Now, please allow me to ask you something: What did the coming of Christ change? Did He not fulfill the redemption of mankind rather than make a bunch of changes to the foundation of His moral absolutes? Again, yes.

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Yes Christ came to fufill the words of the prohets. Did the prophets ever say that a man is entitled to more than one wife? Not basing on their actions, but on thier words.

swordman said:

Treatment of wives has nothing to do with a plurality of wives, unless there is abuse.

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Abuse also counts as emotional abuse or neglect.

swordman said:

Feministic theology sees a man having a plurality of wives as being a form of abuse, but then we have only a handful of examples of problems and abuse when we are all literally surrounded by countless examples of abuse within monogamy. So, making abuse or neglect a rule rather than the exception in relation to polygyny is really an argument from silence.

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Actually I see it as a form of emotional neglect. When a man goes off in pursuit of another he is not completely fufilling the wife he already has b/c his attention is divided between the two. He is lusting and actively pursing another woman as well.

swordman said:

We are not talking about Christ. However, for the sake of your bringing Him up, He is the one who gave David plural wives, so I would say that it is He who is the One to determine as to if polygyny is some sort of breach of His will for mankind when we see that He clearly had no problem with it, based upon His actions and His words.

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If one is a Christian Christ applies to every situation.

swordman said:

Which then renders monogamy to be no more perfect than polygyny.

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Both monogamy and polygamy have their share of abuse. People are not perfect, but when a man who already has a wife is actively seeking another what is this called?

swordman said:

That varies from person to person. Not everyone fits into the same mold. I know men who courted their wife(s) for about two weeks, and are still happily together after more than 28 years of marriage. One of those men has three wives. I understand your inability to comprehend how this can work since you have never seen it firsthand. I, on the other hand, have been studying it for several years now, and therefore have some insight into this type of family structure.

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I understand that it works b/c these women were brought into the circle, and have accepted this. Still even when a married man is seeking another it implies what? According to God.

water_ripple said:

Yes Christ came to fufill the words of the prohets.

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Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

I just wanted to demonstrate that you left out a key element in your statement, which is the Law. The prophets spoke of His coming, which He fulfilled, and the Law defined sin, from which He lived perfectly free. There is a difference between the two, but they are also inseperable where Christ's fulfillment is concerned.

Did the prophets ever say that a man is entitled to more than one wife? Not basing on their actions, but on thier words.

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Did any of the prohets declare that all men are therefore limited to having only one wife? If so, which one, and what is the reference? I can show you that the Law made governing provision for man to have more than one wife.

Abuse also counts as emotional abuse or neglect.

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Actually I see it as a form of emotional neglect. When a man goes off in pursuit of another he is not completely fufilling the wife he already has b/c his attention is divided between the two.

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Well, I appreciate your honesty in admitting "...I see it as..." Thank you. Now I understand that this is your opinion rather than it being an experiential and/or knowledgable observation.

He is lusting and actively pursing another woman as well.

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Do you think lust was the basis upon which the Lord gave to David at least two of his 15(+) wives? Did the Lord go against His own will for mankind by giving David more than one wife, and perhaps many other men down through history? Does it violate your conscience to think that maybe the Lord did something of which you personally do not approve?

If one is a Christian Christ applies to every situation.

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This is very general.

Both monogamy and polygamy have their share of abuse. People are not perfect, but when a man who already has a wife is actively seeking another what is this called?

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Perhaps you should tell me what you think it is, then we will measure your thinking against the word of God. If you are going to call it fornication, then you have a hard road ahead of you. If you call it adultery, then you still have a hard road ahead of you, because the word of God does not define those terms the same way many people today think them to be.

I understand that it works b/c these women were brought into the circle, and have accepted this. Still even when a married man is seeking another it implies what? According to God.

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I know what God says about it in His Law, so I prefer not to guess what you think He said. What you think is quite an open field with many possiblities.

Thanks for your reply.

Dr. Don Dean

Palatka44 said:

In the Bible every one of these men who had many wives had a load of children that were always at each others throat. Just name the sin and it is found in these families.

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And that constitutes sin on God's part? After all, the Lord is the one who gave David at least two of his already plural wives. The prophet Nathan made this clear when he confronted David with, "Thus saith the Lord,..." Also, this observation you have made is not in keeping with the reality of the Old Testament patriarchs who had more than one wife. You will search in vain to find where, for instance, Gideon, who had many wives and many children, had such problems as you have indicated with your blanket statement. Therefore, your assesment of those with more than one wife is actually inaccurate. How do you get around God's governing provision for plural wives in His Law?

I have been a Dad for the past 20 years and have only two great children. I love children but the two that I have can be very hateful to oneanother at times and it is a full time job to keep things civil.

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It is good to see that you openly admit that the same rivalry can and does exist within both family structures. Murder has also been a reality in both family structures, as was the case between Cain and Abel, which only proves that neither one is superior in this respect.

I can just imagine having to put down the squabbles that sibblings can get into if my household consisted of 5 wives with 20+ children. Every one of these men of the Bible did not nor could not control their households.

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Fortunately, not all men think the same way. Some men can only handle so much, but not all men are so limited in their abilities simply because you personally do not see yourself as being able to handle such a household. You know your limitations, I do not. For me to assume upon you what I know that I can do would be utter foolishness and prideful, and it would be seen as arrogant by others. Perhaps you should then be more careful of your tendency to measure all other men by your own weaknesses and inabilities.

Wisdom dictates that 1 wife and few children is enough for one man.

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I accept this as being a statement concerning yourself and your own abilities, or lack thereof. To try and apply this to all other men is, as I said, an exercise in dishonesty and arrogance.

In Christ Jesus

Dr. Don Dean

Palatka44 said:

You know I am always amazed at how many people that engage in sin seek to be justified in that sin. But what amazes me more is how they'll turn plain words around just to justify themselves in their sin.

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I am equally amazed at how many freedoms pharasaical religionists have declared to be sin simply because those freedoms violate their socially engineered theologies that are based more upon their own man-made authority rather than being based upon Biblical authority. Did the Lord step down from His Throne so that you could usurp it from Him and make new rulings as to what sin is and is not? Can you find where the Lord declared a plurality of wives to be sin without adding to, or removing from, the context?

The most famous line ever uttered "It depends on what 'is' is." Many will take out their lexicons and twist each word untill they feel better about what they've done before God, knowing all the while that God knows and He will judge all who have not repented.

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What about those who refuse to accept the clear language of the scriptures, and force meaning into the word of God that is not there, all without any lexicons, therefore based upon their personal bias more than any lingual authority? There is usually always two sides to such arguments as you have put forth here.

I am but a simple man with a meger education but I do know the context of a word in sentence when I read it. I know when it is plural or singular.

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Then you better accept that the singular mention of a "son" therefore limits you to having only one son and one grandson. You cannot pick and choose the rules of interpretation and apply them wherever you choose. Rules of intertretation are always applied consistently by those who refuse to engage in twisting the word of God to their own ends. I only wish to warn you against doing the very things of which you accuse others. That is hypocrisy.

In Christ Jesus

Dr. Don Dean

swordman said:

I am equally amazed at how many freedoms pharasaical religionists have declared to be sin simply because those freedoms violate their socially engineered theologies that are based more upon their own man-made authority rather than being based upon Biblical authority. Did the Lord step down from His Throne so that you could usurp it from Him and make new rulings as to what sin is and is not? Can you find where the Lord declared a plurality of wives to be sin without adding to, or removing from, the context?



What about those who refuse to accept the clear language of the scriptures, and force meaning into the word of God that is not there, all without any lexicons, therefore based upon their personal bias more than any lingual authority? There is usually always two sides to such arguments as you have put forth here.



Then you better accept that the singular mention of a "son" therefore limits you to having only one son and one grandson. You cannot pick and choose the rules of interpretation and apply them wherever you choose. Rules of intertretation are always applied consistently by those who refuse to engage in twisting the word of God to their own ends. I only wish to warn you against doing the very things of which you accuse others. That is hypocrisy.

In Christ Jesus

Dr. Don Dean

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Mr Dean,

I look at it this way. I trust what I read. I have no answer as to why God allowed some men to have many wives. Frankly it is a question that I have struggled with also. Personaly, and I think that the answer that I am about to give is after my flesh, I can think of several women that I'd like to be married to. With that said my wife is all my desire it is she who God has blessed me with. She is of my heart and not just a fleshly desire. I want no other.
For me to desire in my heart another is to commit adultery. I will not as a born again Christian live after the flesh! Even though I struggle with this issue I wll not let it rule over the Holy Spirit within me which convicts me of sin. What is a sin with God is a sin to all men. He is not a respecter of persons. If this is in conflict with what He has let David and others do and has not allowed me to do that is His business and not mine. Frankly if there is a conflict in the scripture in this regard then so be it, God always reveals His purpose in due time.
Why He let David have many wives and demand that I should only have one? I honestly do not know. But I am not going to sit here and twist scripture until I feel justified to follow my flesh!
I tell you what, when we both arrive in Heaven lets ask God these questions I'll be satisfied with His answer will you? Meanwhile I'll live my life as a meger man with one wife and two great children and be satisfied with that.

swordman said:

Then you better accept that the singular mention of a "son" therefore limits you to having only one son and one grandson. You cannot pick and choose the rules of interpretation and apply them wherever you choose. Rules of intertretation are always applied consistently by those who refuse to engage in twisting the word of God to their own ends. I only wish to warn you against doing the very things of which you accuse others. That is hypocrisy.

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It sounds to me that you are angry that God has allowed others something that is denied to you. Your anger is not with me but with God. I am in no position, nor ever presume to be, to convict you of sin. Pharasitical? Who called who a hypocrite? Hypocrisy? I am only one man with questionable educational prowes. How are my statements hypocritical? I do not live one way and preach the other way, I practice what I preach.
This following verses will sum up what I feel about this subject;

1 Corinthians 7:2-4
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
Like I said I trust what I read and what I read is singular not plural. No lexicon will convince me otherwise.
And
1 Timothy 3:2-4
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
Again I trust what I read. Do these scripture apply to David and the others past? No they apply to me and those of us that hold Church offices. If you are not an officer of the Church then let me direct you back to 1 Corintians 7:2. 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Again I trust only what I read. I will not twist it to fulfill my flesh!

Palatka44 said:

I look at it this way. I trust what I read. I have no answer as to why God allowed some men to have many wives. Frankly it is a question that I have struggled with also.

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Please allow me to point out that God not only allowed it, and made governing provision for it, and GAVE more than one wife to men, but He also included Himself in the imagry of polygyny when He called Israel and Judah His wives (plural).

Personaly, and I think that the answer that I am about to give is after my flesh, I can think of several women that I'd like to be married to. With that said my wife is all my desire it is she who God has blessed me with. She is of my heart and not just a fleshly desire. I want no other.

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I understand. If I may add, polygyny is not for most men. Most men could not handle the responsibility of loving more than one wife.

For me to desire in my heart another is to commit adultery.

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One thing you should know about me is that words mean things. When applying the wrong words to a statement, I am one to step up and make clarifications. The word of God is very clear when it said that for a man to LUST after a woman is to commit adultery. Desiring and lusting after are two different things. I say this because it obviously was not lust for David to desire more than one wife, or any of the other patriarchs who had more than one. If they had "lusted" after a woman, then they had a problem, as was the case with David and Bathsheba. She was another man's wife. That CLEARLY is a breach of God's moral absolutes.

I will not as a born again Christian live after the flesh!

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That applies to us all. You personally choose not to engage in this for yourself, for your own reasons, and I accpet that. I have no problem with it.

Even though I struggle with this issue I wll not let it rule over the Holy Spirit within me which convicts me of sin.

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I agree. However, I also know that your own struggle with this does not make it sin in the lives of all the men who have, had, or ever will have more than one wife. The Holy Spirit will not testify against the written word of God. You personally may have a conviction against it for your own life, which I accept, but to say that such a conviction is a mandate from the Holy Spirit, and therefore is sin for all other men is to set the Holy Spirit at odds with the inspired record we call the Bible. God did not only allow men to have more than one wife, but He even GAVE plural wives. That is not the actions of a God who is against polygyny.

What is a sin with God is a sin to all men. He is not a respecter of persons. If this is in conflict with what He has let David and others do and has not allowed me to do that is His business and not mine.

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Agreed.

Frankly if there is a conflict in the scripture in this regard then so be it, God always reveals His purpose in due time.

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Please understand that I am not being obtuse. The only conflict I can see is in your own thinking. You have learned that the Lord does not fit into a nice, neat little theological box of your own making. You thought the Lord was against a plurality of wives, then you find out that He not only actively GAVE plural wives, but He also involved Himself in the imagry of polygyny. The Lord would never give or involve Himself in the imagry of anything He thought to be sin, upon which I think we can both agree.

Why He let David have many wives and demand that I should only have one? I honestly do not know. But I am not going to sit here and twist scripture until I feel justified to follow my flesh!

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What one man had is not at all a measure of what all other men should have where the number of wives is concerned. Adam was given only one wife, Abraham, David, Gideon, et al, were given more than one, and you have adopted a viewpoint that it is wrong for you. I simply accept these things without figuring that there is a cinflict somewhere.

Your struggle was placed inside your mind by an outside influence that is powerful. We live in the middle of an overwhelmingly monogamy-only cultural mindset. Never underestimate the power that social and cultural bias has in the minds of all people, myself included. Western Christianity has within its thinking a plethora of socially engineered theologies that clearly are not Biblically based. You do not have to twist the scriptures to understand that the Lord is not against a plurality of wives, contrary to a monogamy-only mindset that has enjoyed an almost completely unchallenged history since the mormons sought to include Utah as a state. (Many people talk as if the mormons invented polygyny.)

I tell you what, when we both arrive in Heaven lets ask God these questions I'll be satisfied with His answer will you? Meanwhile I'll live my life as a meger man with one wife and two great children and be satisfied with that.

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Well, I do have my doubts that the Lord will contradict His inspired word, but I am content that you are content. As for meager, well, that is a tragic choice because nobody lives a meager life if they are in Christ. In Him we are partakers of His glorious love and wisdom. He has made us fellow heirs with Him. What a joy.
As to your question about anger, no. I was never angry at you. Do not be fooled by a mere computer screen. I was speaking in strictly conversational tones.

Dr. Don Dean

That applies to us all. You personally choose not to engage in this for yourself, for your own reasons, and I accpet that. I have no problem with it.

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THEN STOP TRYING TO TEMPT ME INTO SIN! I'll have no part in it! You apparently do. Go right on and enslave all the women and children you wish and, as I stated before, we will face God together someday and I'll be totaly pleased with His answer to this question. And some how I do not think that He is going to fault me for remaining true to my one and only wife and two children.
Good Day Mr Dean!

swordman said:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

I just wanted to demonstrate that you left out a key element in your statement, which is the Law. The prophets spoke of His coming, which He fulfilled, and the Law defined sin, from which He lived perfectly free. There is a difference between the two, but they are also inseperable where Christ's fulfillment is concerned.

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IMO the law and words are the same. Sorry if my lumping of terms was confusing.

swordman said:

Did any of the prohets declare that all men are therefore limited to having only one wife? If so, which one, and what is the reference? I can show you that the Law made governing provision for man to have more than one wife.

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To the first ? no. I would appreciate if you would show me the law for a man having more than one wife along with the reference please.

swordman said:

Well, I appreciate your honesty in admitting "...I see it as..." Thank you. Now I understand that this is your opinion rather than it being an experiential and/or knowledgable observation.

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My opininon is based on some of the calamity that went on with some of the OT people who had numerous wives. David as an example...(other factors as well that I will explain if you would bear with me..)

swordman said:

Do you think lust was the basis upon which the Lord gave to David at least two of his 15(+) wives? Did the Lord go against His own will for mankind by giving David more than one wife, and perhaps many other men down through history? Does it violate your conscience to think that maybe the Lord did something of which you personally do not approve?

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Firstly I am not offended by God in the least. David first lusted after Bathsheba even though she was married to another. Then David had the man killed. God allows even for holy men to gain enough rope to hang themselves. Hence the writ of divorce that Moses directed for divorce.

water_ripple said:

If one is a Christian Christ applies to every situation

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swordman said:

This is very general.

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Christians are called to model their lives after Christ so that makes Him appliable to any situation in one's life.

swordman said:

Perhaps you should tell me what you think it is, then we will measure your thinking against the word of God. If you are going to call it fornication, then you have a hard road ahead of you. If you call it adultery, then you still have a hard road ahead of you, because the word of God does not define those terms the same way many people today think them to be.

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Good thing that you have all of the answers..A hard road? I walk a hard road every day of my life, but it is a good road and one which I cherish....God calls it lust. Fornication happens with the act. Adultery happens when a man puts away his wife. (I think a married man who is seeking another is lusting after the other woman, and if he has sexual relations with the other woman he is commiting fornication. Adultery by putting away of the spouse comes from more ways than the literal...emotinal neglect is a form of putting her needs aside.) A married man who is seeking another is effectively lusting after another woman or vice versa. Remember David lusted after Bathsheba (already married BTW). David's attention was completly focused on her, and then lost sight of God. Bad things happen when one puts their own desires ahead of focusing on God. I know it happened to me as well.

swordman said:

I know what God says about it in His Law, so I prefer not to guess what you think He said. What you think is quite an open field with many possiblities.

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True I have never experienced a polygimist marriage, so the things that I form my opinion from are the calamities that ensued from polygimsit marriages in the bible. Unfortunately, we all fall short of perfection and things like lust, jealousy, resentment creep in and divide our households. A monogamus relationship becoming one flesh is quite the task itself. Just like the marriage of God to a Christian to become one is a very difficult task. It takes a complete personal commitment every day of our life. Other people mixed into this kind of a personal intamacy can spell disaster. A house that is divided cannot stand, and since we all fall short of perfection....human nature gets in the way.

tyreth said:

Palatka44, thanks for sharing your thoughts.



You have almost certainly promised to your wife to live for her alone and love her alone. She almost certainly expects you to give her all your attention, without any going to another woman - you have promised her as much. Your children also expect to live this way.

Could this be the source of your feelings that it's wrong? It is no small thing to break a promise you make before men and God, and you did promise your wife that she was the only one. There is no way I would ever recommend someone to break their marriage vows against their wife's wishes if they've already made a monogamous commitment. A man is bound to his promises.

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Likewise I thank you Tyeth, you have calmed a heart in which it's blood was about to explode. Now if you gentilmen will excuse me I think I've contributed all that I can to this subject. My apologies to Mr Dean for my display of anger. I will now take my leave and live according to the dictates for the office of a bishop and a member in the blessed Church of my Loving Savior Jesus Christ.

Palatka44 said:

THEN STOP TRYING TO TEMPT ME INTO SIN! I'll have no part in it! You apparently do.

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Please understand that I am not at all trying to tempt you. If a plurality of wives is not for you, then do not seek it. Like Tyreth said, stick to what you promised to your wife. You have some issues that you need to deal with. The fact that I have pointed out God's not being against a plurality of wives is not a means of temptation. There is something else going on here, and I suspect what it may be. Find contentment in your life and your marriage. There is no reason to believe that anyone is tempting you to do otherwise.

Go right on and enslave all the women and children you wish

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Polygyny is no more an enslavement of women and children than monogamy. I have heard this argument before, and it is nothing but a form of emotional sophism that does nothing but keep people from accepting truths they do not like.

and, as I stated before, we will face God together someday and I'll be totaly pleased with His answer to this question. And some how I do not think that He is going to fault me for remaining true to my one and only wife and two children.

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By all means, stay with them. I have never encouraged you to do otherwise. The conflict is within your own heart, not with me. Like I said before, you have some issues that you need to deal with in a more honest fassion rather than to lash out at me. I have not said that you should seek out a second wife. I clearly said that I accept what you have chosen for yourself, and that I am content with that. I also am content with the fact that the Lord will not change His mind, when we stand before Him, from what is reflected in His written word. There is no violation for me to hold to that confidence in His written word.

Like Jesus said, be content with such as you have.

In Christ Jesus

Dr. Don Dean

water_ripple said:

IMO the law and words are the same. Sorry if my lumping of terms was confusing.

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Thanks for the clarification. However, the Law and the prophets are not at all the same thing. That is why the Lord specifically mentioned them seperately. The Law was already written before most all those prophets existed. They upheld what was already written, as well as communicate God's word concerning specific situations.

I would appreciate if you would show me the law for a man having more than one wife along with the reference please.

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I will quote it for you: Ex. 21:10 "If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish." The context of this verse has to do with a son taking a second wife, and not continuing to provide for his first wife, and that in such a case she is free to leave. Now, what is missed by many people is that if the Lord were against a man having more than one wife, then He certainly would not have made this governing provision in the first place. Fornicators and adulterers were dealt with swiftly, without recourse, so if a purality of wives were at all one of these sins, then such a man would have been put to death rather than governing provision made for his having more than one wife.

My opininon is based on some of the calamity that went on with some of the OT people who had numerous wives. David as an example...(other factors as well that I will explain if you would bear with me..)

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I agree that there were problems, some of them quite serious, in some of the families with more than one wife, which is true within many marriages, no matter how many wives a man has. The abuses we see even today within monogamy would almost make a man want to question marrying at all.

Firstly I am not offended by God in the least. David first lusted after Bathsheba even though she was married to another. Then David had the man killed. God allows even for holy men to gain enough rope to hang themselves. Hence the writ of divorce that Moses directed for divorce.

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Ah, but God had already given David at least two of his already plural wives before he ever laid eyes upon Bathsheba.

Good thing that you have all of the answers..

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I always enjoy an "off-the-cuff" banter every now and then.

(I think a married man who is seeking another is lusting after the other woman, and if he has sexual relations with the other woman he is commiting fornication. Adultery by putting away of the spouse comes from more ways than the literal...emotinal neglect is a form of putting her needs aside.) A married man who is seeking another is effectively lusting after another woman or vice versa. Remember David lusted after Bathsheba (already married BTW). David's attention was completly focused on her, and then lost sight of God. Bad things happen when one puts their own desires ahead of focusing on God. I know it happened to me as well.

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Well, I appreciate your saying that this is what you think. I take this as being an estimation of your own character. In other words, for you personally, it would be a matter of "lust" for you to take in a second wife, which does not mean that a man must neglect his first wife to do so. However, if your taking in a second wife meant that you would have to turn your back on your first wife, then by all means, RUN. Do not even consider taking in a second. Not all men would have to turn away from their first wife to love a second. Abraham obviously was a man who could love more than one, right wlong with many other men. I know a man with three wives, and that family is a marvel to behold. I know other men with two, and there is no lack of love in those families. Oh, and none of them are mormon. They are southern baptist, presbyterian, etc.

True I have never experienced a polygimist marriage, so the things that I form my opinion from are the calamities that ensued from polygimsit marriages in the bible.

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Not all polygynous marriages were calamitous in the Bible.

Unfortunately, we all fall short of perfection and things like lust, jealousy, resentment creep in and divide our households. A monogamus relationship becoming one flesh is quite the task itself. Just like the marriage of God to a Christian to become one is a very difficult task. It takes a complete personal commitment every day of our life. Other people mixed into this kind of a personal intamacy can spell disaster.

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This is true as a possibility, but it is not the rule. Most men are not capable of loving two or more wives equally, so it is true that for most men it would be a disaster. I can agree with that.

A house that is divided cannot stand, and since we all fall short of perfection....human nature gets in the way.

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I agree that dor most men to take another wife would be an exercise in dividing his house, but a subsaequent wife in the life of a man who has the moral and mental character to handle such a family is not creating a divided house. I know this not from personal experience, but from the word of God and from those who DO have experience in this area.

May the Lord bless you in what He has given you.

In Christ Jesus

Dr. Don Dean

swordman said:

The conflict is within your own heart, not with me. Like I said before, you have some issues that you need to deal with in a more honest fassion rather than to lash out at me.

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Matthew 23:29-32
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

P44 you explained your position very well and these "scribes" "Pharisees" are the one with issues if they can not endure sound doctrine. They have their place as the above scripture shows them to their doom.
Thank you very much for your insights P44.

God help you all for causing your brothers to stumble. God did not ordain multilply wives. Using Moses and Abraham is not acceptable because it is never mentioned they had more than one wife at a time. How do you explain that it is mentioned that Solomon had more wives and David too and it never mentions that for Moses and Abraham.

You twist the scriptures so that they line up with you sinful flesh and lust for other women. And spare me, you are not helping any women out pitying them and marrying them so they will not be alone. Their self-esteem must be at the bottom to agree to such terms.

You also twist the scripture in Romans that has nothing to do with marriage, but is used as an analogy for the law and how we are not longer bound to the law as a woman was bound to her husband by the law.

YTalking to the reprobate is like raising the dead. They will argue and will never turn from their sinful ways. Polygamy is sinful. God never intended for man to have more than one wife. They abuse the scriptures and pull them out of context to support their lust for other women.

ie., Moses and Abraham had more than one wife. Conjecture!! When the men in the bible were mention as having more than one wife, the other wives were also mentions. This was and is not the case for Moses or Abraham. It is always clearly mention one wife. The other wifes are never mentioned and it is never mentioned that they took on a second or third wife. The other wifes, it is clearing inferred, had died.

Furthermore, the scripture you use in Romans is used as an analogy of the law and the church. Is is used to show how once we were bound to the law just as a wife was bound to her husband until death.

God help all of you for teaching the doctrine of devils and causes your brothers to stumble.

Debi

One man and one woman, if it was good for God then it should be good for God now

swordman said:

Thanks for the clarification. However, the Law and the prophets are not at all the same thing. That is why the Lord specifically mentioned them seperately. The Law was already written before most all those prophets existed. They upheld what was already written, as well as communicate God's word concerning specific situations.

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Okay I understand what u r saying.

swordman said:

I will quote it for you: Ex. 21:10 "If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish." The context of this verse has to do with a son taking a second wife, and not continuing to provide for his first wife, and that in such a case she is free to leave. Now, what is missed by many people is that if the Lord were against a man having more than one wife, then He certainly would not have made this governing provision in the first place. Fornicators and adulterers were dealt with swiftly, without recourse, so if a purality of wives were at all one of these sins, then such a man would have been put to death rather than governing provision made for his having more than one wife.

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It means not to neglect your wife for another. People in the bible who lusted were also dealt with swiftly. Their houses came crashing down on top of them until they repented. If a married man is lusting after another and acitvely persuing her his attention is diverted from his wife and from God. A human being cannot be in three different places at once. Humans are imperfect and not omnipotent.

swordman said:

I agree that there were problems, some of them quite serious, in some of the families with more than one wife, which is true within many marriages, no matter how many wives a man has. The abuses we see even today within monogamy would almost make a man want to question marrying at all.

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That is very true and horrible.

swordman said:

Ah, but God had already given David at least two of his already plural wives before he ever laid eyes upon Bathsheba.[/QUTOE]And we witnessed what happened when he lusted after her. His attention was completely focused on her. Just a note to remember even holy men are subjected to imperfection, and they just like unholy men are subject to judgement. A great illustration of the imperfection of humans which includes those who are close to God.

swordman said:

I always enjoy an "off-the-cuff" banter every now and then.

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I always enjoy entertaing every now and then

swordman said:

Well, I appreciate your saying that this is what you think. I take this as being an estimation of your own character. In other words, for you personally, it would be a matter of "lust" for you to take in a second wife, which does not mean that a man must neglect his first wife to do so. However, if your taking in a second wife meant that you would have to turn your back on your first wife, then by all means, RUN. Do not even consider taking in a second. Not all men would have to turn away from their first wife to love a second. Abraham obviously was a man who could love more than one, right wlong with many other men. I know a man with three wives, and that family is a marvel to behold. I know other men with two, and there is no lack of love in those families. Oh, and none of them are mormon. They are southern baptist, presbyterian, etc.

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An estimation of my own character is what I am good at. I do not have the right to judge others, but I do have the right to disagree. If a married man is persuing another he is turning his back on his wife because his attention is divided. He is intent on marrying another woman. If a man is persuing another his attention is focused on another woman who is not his wife. Oh, and since when have I singled out the mormons for thier belief in polygmy? I have not condemmed any denomination. I see it as though since all people fall short of perfection, and a monogamus relationship is difficult enough to make 2 fleshes become 1 that a polygamist relationship could be even more difficult. Not that polygmy could not work. It would take the kind of commitment of the holiest of holy to suceed in harmony. God and Christ are capable of fulfilling everybody that comes to them. That's Y God is the perfect example of polygmy, but since the bible tells us that all fall short of the golry of God I think polygmy on the earthly realm speaks for itself. Everyone of us falls short of the Holiness and Glory of God, and to compare our personal relationships with other people to His is dangerous. It suggests perfection in a subtle way.

swordman said:

Not all polygynous marriages were calamitous in the Bible.

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All of them had at least one problem. (The same as monogamy does) One person ended up getting the short end of the stick. In effect one of the wives was neglected while another was lavished with attention or affection.

swordman said:

This is true as a possibility, but it is not the rule. Most men are not capable of loving two or more wives equally, so it is true that for most men it would be a disaster. I can agree with that.

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All men fall short of Holiness and perfection. Not just certian types of men. ALL MEN.(and of course women)

swordman said:

I agree that dor most men to take another wife would be an exercise in dividing his house, but a subsaequent wife in the life of a man who has the moral and mental character to handle such a family is not creating a divided house. I know this not from personal experience, but from the word of God and from those who DO have experience in this area.

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Making a judgement from the outside of one's person is not an effective judgement. God judges moral and mental character, and He says that we all fall short of perfection.

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