Futurismm&theTemple

Hi Hitch


the only one who wants the Temple rebuilt is Satan .........so he can sit in it and show himself to be Messiah.

God does not want a Temple We are his Temple.

Satan will use the Temple he builds as part of his ploy to fool Christianity that he is Jesus Returned.

Hitch said:

Should the predictions of yet another temple be correct it should not be too much to ask wrt the WHY... What reason would God have in restoring the temple?

H

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The reason people are expecting the temple to be rebuilt is DIRECTLY TIED to end time

prophecy interpretation.

These are the major ones that lead people to believe the temple will be rebuilt

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of
perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the TEMPLE OF GOD, shewing himself that
he is God.

The debate as to whether this is PAST OR FUTURE TENSE..?

Daniel 11:36-37 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and
magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the
God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that
is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor
regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Now my question to you is what do you understand by the MAN OF SIN SITTING IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD as stated in 2 Thess 2:3 and what do you understand by Daniel 11:37?

Linda8,

People often read these passages (Dan 11 and 2Thes) and look for some yet future man who will rule the world as placing himself above God. Because of course this hasn't happened yet, right?

The concept of a man exalting himself above God is not an unprecedented concept in history. Take the Pharoes, for instance. Or a better example is the Roman emperors. I think it was Nero who was the first roman emperor to damand to be worshiped as god in before death. I think there were coins discovered with Nero being called god and savior. The book of Acts has an account almost exactly like that found in 2 Thes. Acts 12:21-23, "On an appointed day Herod, having put on his royal apparel, took his seat on the rostrum and began delivering an address to them. The people kept crying out, "The voice of a god and not of a man!" And immediately an angel of the Lord struck him because he did not give God the glory, and he was eaten by worms and died."

We don't need to look for a future man to fit the bill, because this kind of thing has happened in the past. It is not something that has never happened before and still awaits fulfillment.

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, [2] not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [4] who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, ESV)



The unfortunate predominance of dispensationalism among American Protestants has led to a proliferation of erroneous interpretations of the above passage. To understand its true meaning, and its implications for the present discussion, it is necessary to understand, first, what Paul is referring to when he mentions “the temple of God” and, second, the “traditions” out of which this teaching arises and to which Paul instructs the Thessalonians to “stand firm” (v. 15).



When Paul speaks of “the temple of God,” he is not referring to a building of stone and mortar. The Temple in Jerusalem was destined to fall some twenty years after Paul wrote his two letters to Thessalonica. Jesus himself had predicted its fall, and with words so emphatic as to make clear that no such structure would ever be built again (Matthew 24:1-2). The “temple of God” to which Paul refers is of a vastly different substance than the perishable stones which constituted the Jerusalem structure. Consider these examples from the Pauline corpus:



According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. [11] For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— [13] each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

[16] Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? [17] If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple. (1 Corinthians 3:10-17, ESV)



Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, [20] for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20, ESV)



So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [20] built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, [21] in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. [22] In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:19-22, ESV)



If “the temple of God,” in the Pauline context, is not a building made by human hands but, in fact, the inner human self which God is shaping and molding into his perfect image and likeness through the indwelling of his Spirit, who, then, is “the man of lawlessness?” Here, we see the absolute necessity of knowing the “traditions” which Paul was passing along to the Thessalonians and, like those early believers, holding fast to them. These are not “traditions of men,” built up layer upon layer from one generation to the next. On the contrary, they are the inspired “traditions” of the law and the prophets, the very Word of God which is made incarnate in Christ.



What Paul is communicating to the Thessalonians is perhaps the most ancient teaching in all of Scripture.



Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, "Did God actually say, 'You shall not eat of any tree in the garden'?" [2] And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, [3] but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.' " [4] But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. [5] For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." [6] So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. [7] Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

[8] And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. (Genesis 3:1-8, ESV)



In the account of the fall, we see Paul’s entire “Day of the Lord” scenario enacted. Adam and Eve commit an act of rebellion, having believed the lie of the serpent that, in so doing, they will “be like God, knowing good and evil.” It is the same old lie that continues to lead many to destruction to this day: “Eat from the tree and you will be like God. You will be better than God. You will be God! Just do it!”



But, contrary to Satan’s lie, Adam and Eve did not “become like God, knowing good and evil.” The same is true for us. Once the rebellion occurs, our eyes are opened and we see our nakedness, our inner “man of lawlessness” exposed! Every intention of the thoughts of our heart has become “only evil continually” (Genesis 6:5). “The presence of the Lord God,” who created us in his image to live in his presence forever, now inspires fear and we seek a place to hide our shameful, wicked selves. We have become enslaved by sin, fear and, finally, death—not because we have been overcome by outside forces, but because our inner being has become corrupted. Jesus reminded his disciples of this reality.



Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? [18] But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. [19] For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. [20] These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone." (Matthew 15:17-20, ESV)



He also had some stern words for the Pharisees, exposing their false piety.



“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. [28] So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.” (Matthew 23:27-28, ESV)



To put it in simplest terms, “the man of lawlessness” is our own false self—the inner orientation toward rebelliousness and sin—which seeks to supplant our true self—the inner orientation toward holiness and righteousness which is the perfect reflection of the Imago Dei. In Christ, God has provided us with the only means through which our true self can emerge victorious over our false self. But it does not come about through the instant gratification and cheap grace which is so often preached as salvation in the church today. Christ comes to destroy our inner “man of lawlessness,” take his proper place as Lord of our whole being, and cover the shame of our nakedness with the splendor of his glorious presence.

John declares that there is no temple in the New Jerusalem, because “the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.” (Rev. 21 v.22) This Holy Temple, comprised of God Himself, will fulfill the Divine ideal that was begun but never realized, in the Garden of Eden, where God and man were to experience an intimate relationship. (Gen. 3 v.8) As a result, the saints will serve God forever (Rev. 7 v.15; 21 v.3) in the New Jerusalem, which itself is an infinitely magnified Holy of Holies. (Rev. 21 v.16; 1 Kings 6 v.20)

Anyone interested in end time events has his eyes on the temple project. Even though it is no longer necessary after the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, they don’t know that or don’t believe that. Ever since the Jews took temporary possession of the temple site after the Six Day War in 1967, there have been rumors that various groups have been working to prepare all the materials it needs. Robes, 102 utensils needed for temple worship according to biblical and rabbinic standards, the training of qualified Levites, and research of the regulations. One of the most active individuals gathering materials for the temple has been Gershom Salomon of the Temple Mount Faithful. I have read that it would only take 9 to 12 months to completely build the third Temple as most of it has already been fabricated.

The Temple could be rebuilt sometime between Russia’s attack on Israel and the beginning of the Tribulation – precisely when Russia and her Muslim allies will attack Israel is not possible to determine. It could happen just before the Rapture. Since the Jews will burn the remains of the war, described in (Ezek 38-39) for seven winters (39 v.9) and because they will be driven out of the Holy Land by the Antichrist during the last three and a half years of the Tribulation, (Rev 12 v.6) it would seem logical that the destruction of Russia and her allies will occur at least three and a half years prior to the Tribulation. If that destruction is correct, there will be ample time for the Jews to rebuild their temple. In one moment God will have broken the back of the Muslim hordes that hate Israel so intensely, freeing Israel to rebuild her temple. This would be a drawing card to Jews around the world to return to the Holy land to worship in their temple.

Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are not taught to build a temple; on the contrary, we are taught that God does not live in temples made with hands, but that the Holy Spirit uses the believer's body as a tabernacle or dwelling place (1 Cor. 6 v.19-20). The fact that Israel will rebuild the temple indicates that she has not received the Messiah. The act that will start the Tribulation period is the signing of the covenant with the Antichrist (Dan. 9 v.27), which will become an ungodly league with an evil power, indicating that Israel at the beginning of the Tribulation will not be predominately Christian.

Blynn said:

Ever since the Jews took temporary possession of the temple site after the Six Day War in 1967, there have been rumors that various groups have been working to prepare all the materials it needs. Robes, 102 utensils needed for temple worship according to biblical and rabbinic standards, the training of qualified Levites, and research of the regulations.

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I'm curious, what criteria is used to determine who is a "qualified Levite"?

In fact, what criteria is used to determine who is a "Levite" at all?

The act that will start the Tribulation period is the signing of the covenant with the Antichrist (Dan. 9 v.27),

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I Just read Daniel 9:27 again and I still see nothing about antichrist signing a covenant with Israel.

I see where messiah the prince confirms an existing covenant, but I don't see antichrist mentioned anywhere in the passage.

Care to expound on your interpratation?

Why Would God want the jews or anyone to worship any other than JESUS CHRIST?.

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I do not believe that He does. God created people with freedom of choice. If He'd wanted robots He could easily have created them. Freedom of choice includes the freedom to defy God and reject His love.

Back to the question of where is the third Temple mentioned in scripture I believe it is mentioned in Rev 11:1-2. The Apostle John wrote the Book of Revelations about the year A.D. 95. This means that the Temple which had been standing in Jerusalem in Christ's day--the Second Temple--was non-existent for 25 years preceding John's writing,, since the Roman legions under Titus had leveled both the Temple and the Holy City in A.D. 70. What Temple was John referring to? I believe a yet to be built structure.

During the period of 42 months mentioned in Rev. 11 Jerusalem will see nothing but war; one Gentile army after another will invade the city of Jerusalem. In Luke 21:24 Jesus predicted, "Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." The 'Times of the Gentiles' end with the return of Jesus the Messiah to the earth at the last battle of the Tribulation, the Battle of Armageddon.

I'm curious, what criteria is used to determine who is a "qualified Levite"?

In fact, what criteria is used to determine who is a "Levite" at all?

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I do not have time now but I will gladly come back and try to explain it the best that I can.

Just read Daniel 9:27 again and I still see nothing about antichrist signing a covenant with Israel.

I see where messiah the prince confirms an existing covenant, but I don't see antichrist mentioned anywhere in the passage.

Care to expound on your interpratation?

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I hold to the Futurism interpretation. This thread is about the Temple not the Anti-Christ you can start another thread on that subject 'the interpretation of Daniel 9:27 if you like.

Third temple to be built?

Solomon built a temple the year about 955-60 bc


Zerubble built a temple the year about 535 bc


Herod built a temple the year about 20 bc

Blynn, i am still trying to learn the editing of these forums so i am hoping this is clear. Below is a paragraph from your post. The point i am hoping to show is the meaning of some simple words. . .

Chapter one includes a vision of Jesus in Glory. Chapters two and three are messages from Jesus to His churches, chapters four and five are a heavenly scene with Jesus in view to prepare the reader to know that He is righteous in all the tribulation that will follow. In Chapters nineteen through the end of the book, Jesus is shown to be the coming king.

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Chapter one is a great place to start.

Rev 1:1-3
:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein:


I see in these verses a time frame from verse one.

must shortly come to pass

verse three

for the time is at hand.

For comparison listed are some of the scriptures in which the phrases are used, and all the references (at hand is used 31 times in KJV) ( shortly is used 15 times)

Matt 26:46-47
Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.
And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.
KJV
Luke 21:30
When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.


Rom 13:12
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light

1 Sam 9:8
8 And the servant answered Saul again, and said, Behold, I have here at hand the fourth part of a shekel of silver: that will I give to the man of God, to tell us our way.



Gen 41:32
32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.
KJV

Acts 25:4
4 But Festus answered, that Paul should be kept at Caesarea, and that he himself would depart shortly thither.
KJV
3 John 13-14
13 I had many things to write, but I will not with ink and pen write unto thee:
14 But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face. Peace be to thee. Our friends salute thee. Greet the friends by name.
KJV

Hi rebba,

Here are some notes that I have from a Bible Study that I just completed on the Book of Revelations and ‘soon’ and ‘quickly’


In Revelation 2 and 3 (as well as Revelation 22) Jesus himself says he will return "quickly."

Church of Ephesus
Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly <5035>, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Church of Pergamos
Revelation 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly <5035>, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Church of Philadelphia
Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly <5035>: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Revelation 2:5 and 2:16 could theoretically either mean "soon" or "suddenly." However, since it is stated as a dependent clause, we know that it must mean "suddenly." In other words, Jesus gives this to them as a warning, saying, "or else I will come quickly." To suggest that "quickly" here means "soon" is to suggest that Jesus coming depended on their noncompliance to his instructions. So, if they did not obey, Jesus would come soon, but if they did obey then he would not.

So, nothing in these two passages would negate a "soon" coming of Christ since his coming is only presented as a dependent clause. These two verses do not necessitate his soon coming because if the members of these two Churches complied with his instruction, his soon coming would be averted. That is once sense in which these passages do not necessitate a first century coming of Christ.

However, given the likelihood that Jesus' return was NOT dependent upon the compliance of these two Churches, the most probable meaning of these verses is as follows. If they did not comply with his instructions, his return would be sudden for them. It would take them by surprise. This would be consistent with Jesus warning in the parables as well.

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
...48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
...45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

First we should note that the definition of "quickly" in Revelation 2:5,16 and 3:11 is as follows.

5035 tachu {takh-oo'}
neuter singular of 5036 (as adverb);; adv
AV - quickly 12, lightly 1; 13
1) quickly, speedily (without delay)

This word is related to "en tachos" found in Revelation 1:1 and 22:6. It also occurs elsewhere in Revelation.

Revelation 20:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly <5035>: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
...12 And, behold, I come quickly <5035>; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
...20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly <5035>. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

We notice in the definition that this word indicates "speedily" in the sense of "without delay." We also notice in both Matthew 24 and Luke 12, that the wicked servant says to himself, "My lord delayeth his coming." Jesus statements in Revelation 2, 3, and 22 are a reference back to these parables. Jesus is reminding his Church that he will indeed come and right on time.