Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

brother daniel · Dec 13, 2004

Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
I am persuaded that for us to be one with Jesus Christ, His Holy Spirit must live within us.
Has anyone on this forum been baptized in the Holy Spirit? When and how did it happen?

Lynn73 · Dec 13, 2004

Well, I'm one who believes that a Christian receives the Holy Spirit when the accept Christ. The Bible says if we don't have the Spirit we don't belong to Him.

Ro 8:9 - Show Context But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Pentecost was the beginning of the church, so of course the Spirit was given later after they believed. Jesus had to go back to heaven and send the Spirit to indwell the believers. Now, believers receive the Spirit at salvation. Of course, you're probably speaking of what Pentecostals believe in as a secondary baptism lf the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues. Hopefully, one of them will come along to address your question.

sandman · Dec 13, 2004

I am with Lynn 73 on this

The key to the question is in the word receive. The following is something that posted on another thread with a similar question:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There are seven different Greek word-forms often translated by the one English word Receive

By just reading the Bible in the English one would not know the difference and thus would appear as you mentioned in Acts that they received. but did not receive the holy spirit until later.

There are two Greek words translated receive that I will focus on that should help clarify these accounts in Acts.

lambanö = To receive into manifestation, or objectively.

dechomai = To receive subjectively.

Both of these words are translated into our one English word receive in Acts but there is a greater meaning to the Greek words which will clarify the records in question

As an example: lets say I give you a cell phone: its free, unlimited minuets for your entire time on earth .you receivethat phone, it is yours . Now for sake of explanation lets say you never make a call, never send a fax, never access the web, take a picture, or send text messaging, in other words you never do anything with it but it is yours to use. absolutely free, with all the feature until the day you die. You have received {dechomai} that phone subjectively.

Now lets say I give you the phone and you receive it and start making calls, taking pictures, sending text messages etc, you have now received {lambanö}that phone into manifestation. This is how the words received are used in Acts .well actually in several places throughout the NT, but we are focusing on the records in question, in Acts.

To read this in English is would be like saying:

I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savoir and was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ but did nothing with it. Did he receive ..yes! is he savedyes. does he have the cell phone (holy spirit) absolutely. He has received subjectively {dechomai}

Several weeks later Reverend Holy Roller {not a real name} came to my town and asked me if I spoke in tongues, prophesized, interpreted in tongues, etc since I received. I said I have not so much as heard of these things so he explained to me the great benefits of the cell phone (holy spirit) and I received {lambanö} intomanifestationthe gift of holy spirit; I spoke in tongues.

All of Gods gifts {i.e. the gift if holy spirit} are spirit and as such cannot be analyzed by the five senses To evidence the gift of holy spirit we must not only receive it, but receive it into manifestation {lambanö} in other words we must operate the gift.

There are 9 manifestations or operation of the gift of holy spirit listed in I Corinthians 12. These are many times erroneously referred to as gifts themselves, but as verse 7 of chapter 12 states they are a manifestation of the gift, of holy spirit, the gift given to all who are born again. Only one the gifts of healing is referred to as a gift, only because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation of the gift, of holy spirit.

BTW the word gifts used in I Corinthians 12:1, 13:2, 14:1 &12 has been added by translators and should be deleted, it is not properly supplied and has caused much confusion to those who read it.

Ok, I am getting carried away, back to the word receive. If you have a concordance you can check out the word receive to see which Greek word it was translated from, dechomai or lambanö. If you dont have one I will be happy to supply you with the verses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God Bless

sandman

Stinker · Dec 13, 2004

brother daniel said:
Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
I am persuaded that for us to be one with Jesus Christ, His Holy Spirit must live within us.
Has anyone on this forum been baptized in the Holy Spirit? When and how did it happen?

And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentence, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. (Acts 19:3-8)

brother daniel · Dec 13, 2004

Bless you brethen,
I am very encouraged by the response so far. Its recieve from the Greek word "lambano" I am asking about when I ask if you have receaved the Holy Ghost.
Boldness in the word seems to be the major sign of its presence

I have been doing a study on the Holy Ghost today here are 89 verses focused on the subject

* Matthew 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child
of the Holy Ghost.

* Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take
unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
-*show in context*-
* Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you
with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
-*show in context*-
* Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven
unto men.

* Matthew 12:32
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven
him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

* Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

* Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

* Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

* Mark 12:36
For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

* Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be
given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his
mother's womb.

12. Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that
holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

13. Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

14. Luke 1:67
And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

15. Luke 2:25
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the
Holy Ghost was upon him.

16. Luke 2:26
And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

17. Luke 3:16
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to
unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

18. Luke 3:22
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am
well pleased.

19. Luke 4:1
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

20. Luke 12:10
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be
forgiven.

For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

22. John 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on
him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

23. John 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet
glorified.)

24. John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your
remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

25. John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Acts 1:2
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

27. Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

28. Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in
Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

29. Acts 1:16
Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was
guide to them that took Jesus.

30. Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

31. Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now
see and hear.

32. Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
the Holy Ghost.

33. Acts 4:8
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

34. Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the
word of God with boldness.

35. Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

36. Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

37. Acts 6:3
Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

38. Acts 6:5
And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor,
and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

39. Acts 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

40. Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

41. Acts 8:15
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

42. Acts 8:17
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

43. Acts 8:18
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

45. Acts 9:17
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in
the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

46. Acts 9:31
Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the
Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

47. Acts 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil;
for God was with him.

48. Acts 10:44
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

49. Acts 10:45
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the
Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:44-46 (in Context) Acts 10 (Whole Chapter)
50. Acts 10:47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 11:15
And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

52. Acts 11:16
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

53. Acts 11:24
For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

54. Acts 13:2
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

55. Acts 13:4
So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

56. Acts 13:9
Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.

57. Acts 13:52
And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

58. Acts 15:8
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

59. Acts 15:28
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

60. Acts 16:6
Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,

61. Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any
Holy Ghost.

62. Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

63. Acts 20:23
Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.

64. Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he
hath purchased with his own blood.

65. Acts 21:11
And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at
Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

66. Acts 28:25
And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto
our fathers,

67. Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

68. Romans 9:1
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

69. Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

70. Romans 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

71. Romans 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being
sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

72. 1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with
spiritual.

73. 1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

74. 1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but
by the Holy Ghost.

75. 2 Corinthians 6:6
By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,

2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

77. 1 Thessalonians 1:5
For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we
were among you for your sake.

78. 1 Thessalonians 1:6
And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

79. 2 Timothy 1:14
That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

80. Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy
Ghost;

81. Hebrews 2:4
God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

82. Hebrews 3:7
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

83. Hebrews 6:4
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:3-5 (in Context) Hebrews 6 (Whole Chapter)
84. Hebrews 9:8
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Hebrews 9:7-9 (in Context) Hebrews 9 (Whole Chapter)
85. Hebrews 10:15
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

86. 1 Peter 1:12
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have
preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

87. 2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

88. 1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

89. Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

GodAtWorkToday · Dec 14, 2004

Hopefully, I can answer your question, not from the background of church affiliation or culture, but from the Word of God, which has been also confirmed in my own experience.

The verse you quote in the OP is quite pivotal to this question and describes the state that many Christians find themselves in. Whether this be from ignorance of the Word of God (not a put down, but a state of being that we were all in at one time, especially as a new Christian), or from teachings of the church denomination you attend or grew up in. Many of these teachings have more to do with church history, culture and the precedent of early doctrines than they do with sound intrepretation of Scripture.

Now I would like you to consider two verses. One from your list, and one not on your list.

25. John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

and

Luk 24:49 ESV And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

Now John describes a physical imparting of the Spirit to the disciples, by Jesus when He breathed upon them. This passage also agrees with;

22. John 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on
him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Jesus is the one who baptises with the Holy Spirit. And yet at this same period of time (while Jesus walked the earth in his resurreted state, prior to ascension) also told them as reported in Luke to await in Jerusalem for a further empowering.

It is this event we see in Acts 1:8 and onwards (The day of Pentecost) that was the birth of church.

So what can we conclude. Did the disciples receive the Spirit when Jesus breathed upon them? We have no reason to doubt that they did. And yet something more amazing awaited them just a few days hence.

Likewise, Saul/Paul in his roadside encounter with Jesus;
(sorry long quote, but the whole part is relevant)

Act 9:3-20 ESV Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. (4) And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" (5) And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. (6) But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." (7) The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. (8) Saul rose from the ground, and although his eyes were opened, he saw nothing. So they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. (9) And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank. (10) Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." (11) And the Lord said to him, "Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, (12) and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight." (13) But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. (14) And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name." (15) But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. (16) For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name." (17) So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." (18) And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; (19) and taking food, he was strengthened. For some days he was with the disciples at Damascus. (20) And immediately he proclaimed Jesus in the synagogues, saying, "He is the Son of God."

It could be said, that Saul/Paul was saved at the roadside, when he recognised the risen Lord Jesus, and he obeyed Jesus command to go into the city and to await further instructions. Note then Annias prayer "to recieve the Holy Spirit". Then note for later reference the manifestation in verse 20.

You should also consider that Acts 19:2 is not an isolated incident but was rather the pattern and passion of the apostles. Can you see the parrallels here;

Act 8:14-17 ESV Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, (15) who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, (16) for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (17) Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

So for the Ephesian believers, just like the Corintian believers, just like the Apostles, this baptism was a subsequent event days and weeks after they first believed in the name of Jesus, and received Him as their Lord and Saviour. This confirmation of 3 separate events reported in Luke, John and Acts, is very strong Scriptural support for a later infilling of the Holy Spirit, separate to salvation.

I hope you can see that this is not Pentecostal culture or teaching but rather sound Biblical doctrine.

So what is my understanding of it. When we get saved, we receive Jesus, we also receive the Holy Spirit (as in John 24). Yes we have the Spirit of God. We have available His comfort, and teaching and guidance.

However, there is a subsequent baptism (a full immersion in the Holy Spirit, a complete pouring over and into of the Holy Spirit), that empowers us for proclaiming Jesus. It is at this time that we receive the manifestations that come with the 'gift' who is the Holy Spirit, as posted previously.

When this event occurs in a believer there is always a visible manifestation that others can witness to. In many many cases this is 'tongues'. eg. Acts 2:4. It can also be prophesing, and it can also be bold preaching. It will always be obvious, and it will always proclaim Jesus and give glory and praise to Jesus.

There is NOT ONE incident in the Bible of a believer or group of believers being baptised (filled) with the Holy Spirit, without there also being an immediate manifestation that glorifies Jesus. Acts 9:20. It may or may not be tongues, but it will be supernatural, different to normal, and will proclaim Jesus.

It is safe to conclude, no manifestation, no baptism.

Finally note well;

Joe 2:28-29 ESV "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. (29) Even on the male and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit.
...
and
...
Mar 16:15-18 ESV And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. (16) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. (17) And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; (18) they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Note: the promise in Joel is to all flesh. The last words of Jesus just prior to ascension (therefore these are critically important), states that signs (tongues, healing, etc) will follow who? Those that believe. Therefore the baptism in the Holy Spirit is available to all Christians who believe that it is the Word of God for them.

Peter, John, Philip & Paul all were concerned that the early believers had this experiential gift, and empowerment, so that Jesus would be powerfully proclaimed. In our fallen world, so full of darkness, we desperately need more and more believers that are empowered to fully proclaim Jesus under the annointing of the Holy Spirit.

PastorSherm · Dec 15, 2004

ya think me being a Pentecostal, I'd be jumping all over this subject...but NAH!

Seeing Christian Unity month is next month I don't want to offend or upset anybody...probably my own Pentecostal brothers and sisters

GodAtWorkToday · Dec 15, 2004

Doctrine is good, but all doctrine needs to be held up to the filter of the Word of God. Most denominations will have some pet doctrine that does not pass this test.

While it would be possible to list these, I agree that would be divisive. Suffice to say that there is a lot more that we can agree on, than that which would be challenged.

It is always wise to keep a weather eye on the 'rules of man' that try to slip into the true Christianity, which is relationship with God.

BubblesRelena · Dec 15, 2004

I have recieved the holy ghost, with evidence of speaking in tongues. And I am very proud of it.

~BubblesRelena

Stinker · Dec 15, 2004

Those who maintain that there were more Holy Spirit baptisms than the two that were recorded in the New Testament (Acts 1:5, Acts 2:1-4) (Acts 10:47-48) and that these baptisms have been, and still are occurring today, have a delimma in that they have two baptisms in effect when there is supposed to be only one. (Eph.4:5)

The one baptism that is effect today is the same one that that Phillip administered to the Ethiopian eunuch. (Acts 8:35-38)

brother daniel · Dec 15, 2004

Perhaps we should word the question another way. Do you remember the changes that occured in you when you were born again? What have you experianced differant since you started following Jesus.

Stinker · Dec 15, 2004

The scriptures teach us that Holy Spirit baptism occurred only two times in the New Testament. Those that experinced this (the Apostles) and (the Cornelius household, for a sign) spoke in other languages that they did not even study).

When I was born again by repenting of my sins, confessing Christ, and then being baptized for the remission of my sins, I experienced great joy and peace. I study and try to follow the New Testament's teaching and find it very rewarding. The word of God helps me not to give up and keeps my life stable where everything around is unstable.

brother daniel · Dec 15, 2004

Amen Brother, We dont all have the same experance but we do know when we were reborn. It is the Holy Ghost that has brought us this far. We could also call it the grace of God. Or we would be correct to say its Jesus. I for one am always poor in Spirit and need more of Jesus every day.

GodAtWorkToday · Dec 15, 2004

Stinker said:
Those who maintain that there were more Holy Spirit baptisms than the two that were recorded in the New Testament (Acts 1:5, Acts 2:1-4) (Acts 10:47-48) and that these baptisms have been, and still are occurring today, have a delimma in that they have two baptisms in effect when there is supposed to be only one. (Eph.4:5)

The one baptism that is effect today is the same one that that Phillip administered to the Ethiopian eunuch. (Acts 8:35-38)

Hi Stinker,
I will answer the first part of your question a little later when I have some more time, but in short, there are quite a few more than 2 events.

The second part though is worthy of comment. The only person who used the phrase "baptized in the Holy Spirit" was John the baptist, as recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. John's prophetic speech was I believe fulfilled in John 20:22.

Apart from that the word baptize is not used elsewhere in the NT to describe this subsequent event. The word normally used is "filled". I will later look also at the Greek and see what the precise word used was.

So yes, quite likely there is but one 'baptism'. However I think the word baptism is a much better descriptive word to explain what happens, rather than simply filled. The subsequent filling by the Holy Spirit, is like being fully immersed in the Spirit of God, it is to be totally covered by His power, and completely filled to overflowing, so that we can but not help but manifest His witness to the glory of Jesus. This is why I prefer to use the word baptize. Not because it has Scriptural authority, but because it better communicates the details of the event.

SoulFly51 · Dec 15, 2004

GodAtWorkToday said:
The second part though is worthy of comment. The only person who used the phrase "baptized in the Holy Spirit" was John the baptist, as recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. John's prophetic speech was I believe fulfilled in John 20:22.

I disagree. John said "Baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire." I believe he was prophecying about the day of Pentacost in Acts 2.

GodAtWorkToday · Dec 16, 2004

WesWoodell said:
I disagree. John said "Baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire." I believe he was prophecying about the day of Pentacost in Acts 2.

Interesting. Actually Matthew & Luke include the "and fire", but Mark & John don't.

Acts 2 was definitely a fulfillment of Luke 24:49. However Jn 20:22 clearly has Jesus physically present, breathing upon the disciples saying "Receive ye the Holy Spirit". John might have been prophetically referring to Pentecost, but could also have been referring to this event.

GodAtWorkToday · Dec 16, 2004

OK, now that I have some time. Let's look at some of the specifics. I think the table below will be illustrative. It might take a few attempts to get it to format right.

Code:

Verse	Person/Group	English	Greek	Manifestation
 Lk1:15	John		filled	ple&#772;tho&#772; many turn to Lord
    Lk1:41	Elisabeth	filled	ple&#772;tho&#772;  word of knowledge
    Lk1:67	Zacharias	filled	ple&#772;tho&#772;  prophesied
 Lk2:25	Simeon		upon	epi	proclaimed Jesus as Salvation
 Lk3:21	Jesus		upon	epi	God proclaimed Jesus His son.
   Lk4:1   Jesus	   being full     ple&#772;re&#772;s   overcame temptation with Word
 Lk4:18	Jesus		upon	epi	annointed to preach
 Lk24:49	disciples	upon	epi	are witnesses to preach
 Acts1:5	disciples	baptized	baptizo&#772;	be witnesses to world(from v8)
 Acts1:8	disciples	upon	epi	be witnesses to world
    Acts2:3	Pentecost	upon	epi
 Acts2:4	believers	filled	ple&#772;tho&#772;	tongues proclaiming wonders of God
 Acts2:17   all flesh	upon	epi	prophesy, vision, dreams
  Acts2:18   handmaidens	on	epi	prophesy
 Acts4:8	Peter		filled	ple&#772;tho&#772;	preached Jesus
 Acts4:31	Jerusalem	filled	ple&#772;tho&#772;	spoke word of God boldly
    		believers
 Acts6:3,5,8	Stephen	full	ple&#772;re&#772;s	wonders & miracles
 Acts7:55	Stephen	full	ple&#772;re&#772;s	proclaimed Jesus
 Acts8:15-18	Samaritans	upon	epi	not stated
 		believers	receive	lambano&#772;	seen by Simon
 Acts9:17-20	Saul/Paul	filled	ple&#772;tho	preached Jesus
    			**baptised	baptizo
 Acts10:44	Cornelius	fell upon	epipipto&#772; epi	tongues
 Acts 10:47	household	received	lambano	tongues
    Acts 11:15	recounting	fell upon	epipipto&#772; epi
 Acts 11:16	Cornelius	Baptize	baptizo	tongues
 Acts 19:6	Ephesians	came on	erchomai epi	tongues & prophesy

** This verse probably is speaking of water baptism.

So if you look at these verses in context you will see that 'received' 'upon' 'on' 'filled' and 'baptized' are used fairly interchangeably, especially when comparing Acts1:5 with Acts1:8 and also comparing Acts 10:47 with Acts 11:16.

So after that study there actually is some Scriptural support for using the term 'baptism with the Holy Spirit" but the preferred terms are 'filled' and 'upon' or 'received'

Notice also that all of these there was a recognized manifestation that in some cases was tongues, but in many others was prophesy, or preaching, or simply proclaiming Jesus. Not in all but one case there is a stated manifestation and in the one not stated, it was obvious to Simon that the believers had received the Holy Spirit.

So bottom line: I agree that we are part of one baptism (the baptism in water unto Jesus), but if Jesus want's to call the reception of the Holy Spirit a baptism then who am I to argue (Acts1:5).

lismore · Dec 17, 2004

Stinker said:
The scriptures teach us that Holy Spirit baptism occurred only two times in the New Testament. .

Its going up! Takes you to three

Acts 19:1 While1 Apollos was in Corinth,2 Paul went through the inland3 regions4 and came to Ephesus.5 He6 found some disciples there7 19:2 and said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"8 They replied,9 "No, we have not even10 heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 19:3 So Paul11 said, "Into what then were you baptized?" "Into John's baptism," they replied.12 19:4 Paul said, "John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him,13 that is, in Jesus." 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, 19:6 and when Paul placed14 his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came15 upon them, and they began to speak16 in tongues and to prophesy.17 19:7 (Now there were about twelve men in all.)

Rafael · Dec 17, 2004

It would seem that the valid one baptism would be the one of precedence - by Jesus and His Holy Spirit...the baptism of repentance, John's, would follow only because of the work evidence of the Holy Spirit's abiding.

Isn't this what happened here in scripture?

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto Johns baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Stinker · Dec 17, 2004

Christians that are unlearned in the study of the Holy Spirit should not be trying to tell others about receiving the Holy Spirit in blanket fashion. This 'power' was given in different MEASURES and is actually a (metonymy) for the Holy Spirit's person.

Jesus was the only person recorded in the New Testament to have received the full measure of the Holy Spirit. (Jn.3:34)

The Apostles received 2 measures, (Jn.20:22) and the baptism measure (Acts 1:5, 2:1-5).

The Cornelius household received the baptismal measure (Acts 10:44-47).

The rest received the Holy Spirit only by the Apostles laying their hands on them. (Acts 8:17-18, Acts 19:1-6) etc, etc.

Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

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