the Church

william jay schroeder · Nov 30, 2004

I believe you avoid my guestion of what are the issues which have devided the Church, are you afraid it might show you that the traditions in your church may be wrong. And the catholic church is hardly the Church thats so unscriputual its not worth debate.(the catholic church religion or denomination). SO WHAT ARE THE ISSUES THAT DIVIDE US. JUST LIST THEM WITHOUT DEBATING THEM.

Theophorus · Nov 30, 2004

william jay schroeder said:
I believe you avoid my guestion of what are the issues which have devided the Church, are you afraid it might show you that the traditions in your church may be wrong. And the catholic church is hardly the Church thats so unscriputual its not worth debate.(the catholic church religion or denomination). SO WHAT ARE THE ISSUES THAT DIVIDE US. JUST LIST THEM WITHOUT DEBATING THEM.

Baptism
Priesthood (Apostolic succession)
Eucharist
confession
definition of faith

for starters

Lotar · Nov 30, 2004

I think everyone should just stop being divisive and do what I say, then it would all work out:

1 Chronicles 4:1-5
The sons of Judah WHERE Perez, Hezron, Carmi, Hur and Shobal.
[size=-1]Reaiah the son of Shobal became the father of Jahath, and Jahath became the father of Ahumai and Lahad. These were the families of the Zorathites.[size=-1]
These were the sons of Etam: Jezreel, Ishma and Idbash; and the name of their sister was Hazzelelponi.[size=-1]
Penuel was the father of Gedor, and Ezer the father of Hushah. These were the sons of Hur, the firstborn of Ephrathah, the father of Bethlehem.[size=-1]
Ashhur, the father of Tekoa, had two wives, Helah and Naarah.[/size][/size][/size][/size]

Furthermore:

Leviticus 20:16
'If there is a woman who approaches any animal to mate with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

And:

Numbers 20:29
When all the congregation saw that Aaron had died, all the house of Israel wept for Aaron thirty days.

Plus, who can deny this?

Malachi 2:1
"And now this COMMANDMENT is for you, O priests.

I rest my case.

In Christ Forever · Nov 30, 2004

Malachi 2:1
"And now this COMMANDMENT is for you, O priests.

Hmm. My eyes had to adjust a dozen different times to the fonts LOL. Malachi is an interesting book. The priests of Judah/Levi were condemned and executed in the first century. No more altar or temple either. That is why we worship in spirit, Truth and love now. :amen:

Malachi 2:1 "And now, O priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If you will not hear, And if you will not take [it] to heart, To give glory to My name," Says the LORD of hosts, "I will send a curse upon you, And I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have cursed them already, Because you do not take [it] to heart. 3 "Behold, I will rebuke your descendants And spread refuse on your faces, The refuse of your solemn feasts; And [one] will take you away with it.

john 4:23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 "God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Skripper · Nov 30, 2004

Oblio said:
Pull !

.
.
.
.
.
.

BANG !

LOL!

Paul S · Nov 30, 2004

william jay schroeder said:
I believe you avoid my guestion of what are the issues which have devided the Church, are you afraid it might show you that the traditions in your church may be wrong. And the catholic church is hardly the Church thats so unscriputual its not worth debate.(the catholic church religion or denomination). SO WHAT ARE THE ISSUES THAT DIVIDE US. JUST LIST THEM WITHOUT DEBATING THEM.

If the Catholic Church got some of the issues wrong, it may also have gotten the Bible wrong. The list of what's in the Bible and what's not was decided by the Catholic Church around AD 400.

No other denomination can trace its history back to the Apostles (except perhaps the Orthodox, but I'd rather not get into that issue here), so if the Catholic Church isn't the one founded by Christ, where did it go? Christ spoke of the church as a light set on a hill, meaning it would be visible to all the world. For it to disappear for centuries doesn't make sense.

lionroar0 · Nov 30, 2004

Oblio said:
Pull !

.
.
.
.
.
.

BANG !

I laughed and laughed. I have tears in my eyes now from laughing

In Christ Forever · Nov 30, 2004

If the Catholic Church got some of the issues wrong, it may also have gotten the Bible wrong. The list of what's in the Bible and what's not was decided by the Catholic Church around AD 400.

That reminds me. That is about when the book of revelation got canonized.
Hey Oblio, someone mentioned about the CC uses book of revelation for mass or something like that, is that true?

Anyway, there are some spirit led christians[including me] over in the "unorthodox" forum exploring and interpreting that devine symbolical book if interested. God bless.

Dark_Lite · Nov 30, 2004

In Christ Forever said:
That reminds me. That is about when the book of revelation got canonized.
Hey Oblio, someone mentioned about the CC uses book of revelation for mass or something like that, is that true?
Anyway, there are some spirit led christians[including me] over in the "unorthodox" forum exploring and interpreting that devine symbolical book if interested. God bless.

For readings if that's what you're talking about...

In Christ Forever · Nov 30, 2004

That reminds me. That is about when the book of revelation got canonized.
Hey Oblio, someone mentioned about the CC uses book of revelation for mass or something like that, is that true?
Anyway, there are some spirit led christians[including me] over in the "unorthodox" forum exploring and interpreting that devine symbolical book if interested. God bless

Click to expand...

Dark_Lite said:
For readings if that's what you're talking about...

I know the person mentioned using revelation for the mass. Couldn't find the post. Oh well. Thanks and God bless. :amen:

Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah [is] written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars, 2 While their children remember Their altars and their wooden images By the green trees on the high hills. 3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders. 4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."

Theophorus · Nov 30, 2004

Lotar said:
I think everyone should just stop being divisive and do what I say, then it would all work out:

1 Chronicles 4:1-5
The sons of Judah WHERE Perez, Hezron, Carmi, Hur and Shobal.
[size=-1]Reaiah the son of Shobal became the father of Jahath, and Jahath became the father of Ahumai and Lahad. These were the families of the Zorathites.[size=-1]
These were the sons of Etam: Jezreel, Ishma and Idbash; and the name of their sister was Hazzelelponi.[size=-1]
Penuel was the father of Gedor, and Ezer the father of Hushah. These were the sons of Hur, the firstborn of Ephrathah, the father of Bethlehem.[size=-1]
Ashhur, the father of Tekoa, had two wives, Helah and Naarah.[/size][/size][/size][/size]

Furthermore:

Leviticus 20:16
'If there is a woman who approaches any animal to mate with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

And:

Numbers 20:29
When all the congregation saw that Aaron had died, all the house of Israel wept for Aaron thirty days.

Plus, who can deny this?

Malachi 2:1
"And now this COMMANDMENT is for you, O priests.

I rest my case.

LOL
I see where we have gone wrong now, we haven't been killing BOTH women when the animal had TWO WIVES.

Paul S · Dec 1, 2004

In Christ Forever said:
Hey Oblio, someone mentioned about the CC uses book of revelation for mass or something like that, is that true?

It's read occasionally at Mass, but what you're probably thinking of is the Book of Revelation describing the Mass, as Scott Hahn discusses in The Lamb's Supper. Just as the Lamb in heaven presents his wounds on the heavenly altar, surrounded by the angels and saints, the earthly liturgy reflects this, with the sacrifice of Calvary being re-presented on our earthly altars.

Here's a transcript of a talk Scott Hahn gave. http://www.christianideas.org/thelambssupper.htm

prodromos · Dec 1, 2004

Paul S said:
No other denomination can trace its history back to the Apostles (except perhaps the Orthodox, but I'd rather not get into that issue here), so if the Catholic Church isn't the one founded by Christ, where did it go?

If you'd rather not get into it then don't make what might be construed as inflammatory statements. Of course you have provided the answer to your rhetorical question (it never left! the Orthodox church that is

) but you probably don't want to get into that issue

John.

P.S. I suspect some of your brethren might take issue with your calling the Catholic church a denomination

Oblio · Dec 1, 2004

In Christ Forever said:
That reminds me. That is about when the book of revelation got canonized.
Hey Oblio, someone mentioned about the CC uses book of revelation for mass or something like that, is that true?

I'm not Roman Catholic but Orthodox. We do not use Revelation in our Divine Liturgy, but (as an RC poster mentioned) our service is patterned after it along with the entire Gospel.

In Christ Forever · Dec 1, 2004

Oblio said:
I'm not Roman Catholic but Orthodox. We do not use Revelation in our Divine Liturgy, but (as an RC poster mentioned) our service is patterned after it along with the entire Gospel.

Ok. I understand. The book of revelation is indeed a fantastic Book in the Bible.Thanks and God bless. :amen:

reve 11:17 saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.

Paul S · Dec 1, 2004

prodromos said:
If you'd rather not get into it then don't make what might be construed as inflammatory statements. Of course you have provided the answer to your rhetorical question (it never left! the Orthodox church that is ) but you probably don't want to get into that issue

John.

We might disagree on whether the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the one founded by Jesus, but we agree that it's one of those two, and not one of the denominations founded at least 1500 years later.

william jay schroeder · Dec 3, 2004

Paul S said:
We might disagree on whether the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the one founded by Jesus, but we agree that it's one of those two, and not one of the denominations founded at least 1500 years later.

you have got to be kidding! Jesus did not found anything, he mearly died for our sins, look at your religion history you find when both were begun.

Oblio · Dec 3, 2004

william jay schroeder said:
you have got to be kidding! Jesus did not found anything, he mearly died for our sins, look at your religion history you find when both were begun.

I can do this

/me Loads chamber ...

/me Raises gun ....

PULL !

Our Lord Jesus Christ said:
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Matthew 16:18 KJV)

BANG !

Theophorus · Dec 4, 2004

william jay schroeder said:
you have got to be kidding! Jesus did not found anything, he mearly died for our sins, look at your religion history you find when both were begun.

That's twice in the same thread. People must be following other things out there besides sola scriptura.

Debi1967 · Dec 4, 2004

william jay schroeder said:
you have got to be kidding! Jesus did not found anything, he mearly died for our sins, look at your religion history you find when both were begun.

Look, I do not know where you are getting this information from but, I think you should go back and look again. Catholics both East and West, meaning all of us were not divided at one point, and as far as the RCC is concerned we are only in schism at this time, and I can only speak for my side of it. We are the Church All Catholics are. We can trace ourselves all the way back... And the Bible does in fact lend credence to the fact that even Christ had His own congregation... who do you think the twelve disciples, His followers, were? How about everyone else that called Him Yeshua as well? And what is the translation of Yeshua? RABBI, or Teacher......

So since we have shown what the word means then Yes sir, He mostly did have a Church and He most certainly did start a Church and He most certainly did leave it entrusted to Peter....

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