This bugs me...the chosen people

[Rev. Smith]

God chose a people for Himself for the same reason He does everything: For His own glory.

In what manner does God need to glorify himself?

 

[Asar'el]

God chose a people for Himself for the same reason He does everything: For His own glory. ...

In what manner does God need to glorify himself?

Nowhere in his post did wsgm indicate, or imply, that God needs to glorify Himself.

It is more accurate to say that all things are and were created for the pleasure of God; or simply, that it pleased God so to do.

In Revelation 4:11 the 24 elders before the throne of God declare (and we agree!

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

2 Corinthians 4:15 declares,

For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

And earlier, in 1 Corinthians 10:31 we are instructed

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

God's pleasure and God's glory, therefore, are quite tightly linked.

 

[Brother Owl]

Nowhere in his post did wsgm indicate, or imply, that God needs to glorify Himself.

It is more accurate to say that all things are and were created for the pleasure of God; or simply, that it pleased God so to do.

In Revelation 4:11 the 24 elders before the throne of God declare (and we agree!

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

2 Corinthians 4:15 declares,

For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

And earlier, in 1 Corinthians 10:31 we are instructed

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

God's pleasure and God's glory, therefore, are quite tightly linked.

Good post!

Glorify God in all you do and you will wake with joy and lay your head down with peace at night!

Blessings!

 

[Lady Di-USA]

The church is the isreal of God spiritually.

A wise statement for a 15 year old. Ofcourse, the church being the body of believers and not an organization.

God bless and peace.

 

[Rafael]

The church is the isreal of God spiritually.

galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

galatians 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Those are good verses, but there is more to it than just the spiritual aspect. There is a physical and spiritual Israel, and there is something worthy of God's attention in the physical or we would not experience it now and for the thousand years of Christ's reign on earth. When Jesus' came back, He said that He has come for the "lost sheep of the house of Israel". The house of Israel is one of the natural branches of All Israel that is the two houses together - Judah (the Jews) and Israel (the Church). It is true, that spiritually, we are all equal and the same in Christ, but God did have a physical chosen people by which He said He would bless all the nations of the earth through - the seed of Abraham. All Israel (physical) is these two houses, together, that the New Covenant is to, and God has promised to physically reunite them before or at the end. (Ez. 37:16,17). We are not to boast against, being arrogant enough to replace or do away with, the natural branches, but remember that God can and has promised to save a remnant of both houses along with all who come to Christ as wild branches to be grafted into the root of Abrahm.
The physical is still obviously important to God, and this surely means that He knows who are His seed and has His eye on them through history - always being faithful and never breaking His covenant with Abraham by which we are all blessed.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Ezekial 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Hosea 8:8 ¶ Israel is swallowed up; Now they are among the Gentiles Like a vessel in which is no pleasure.

Amos 9:9 "For surely I will command, And will sift the house of Israel among all nations, As grain is sifted in a sieve; Yet not the smallest grain shall fall to the ground.

Rom 11:18 stop being arrogant towards the branches. But if you are arrogant, [remember] _you_ do not sustain the root,
_but_ the root [sustains] you!
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off, so that _I_ should be grafted in."
20 Rightly [said]! They were broken off by unbelief, but _you_ have stood by your faith. Stop being conceited, _but_ be
fearing.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps neither will He spare you.
22 Therefore, look at [or, consider] [the] goodness and severity of God: on the one hand upon the ones having fallen,
severity; on the other hand upon you, kindness, if you remain in the goodness; otherwise, _you_ also will be cut off.
23 But also those, if they do not remain in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to again graft them in.
4 For if _you_, the [one] by nature of the wild olive tree, were cut out, and contrary to nature, were grafted into a
cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural ones, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire [for] you* to be unaware, brothers [and sisters], of this secret [or, mystery], so that you* shall
not be wise in your* own conceits, that hardness in part [fig., partial stubbornness] has happened to Israel until the
fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, just as it has been written, "The One delivering will come out of Zion, and He will
turn away impiety [or, ungodliness] from Jacob;

Gen 22:18 And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.

 

[Brother Owl]

Those are good verses, but there is more to it than just the spiritual aspect. There is a physical and spiritual Israel, and there is something worthy of God's attention in the physical or we would not experience it now and for the thousand years of Christ's reign on earth. When Jesus' came back, He said that He has come for the "lost sheep of the house of Israel". The house of Israel is one of the natural branches of All Israel that is the two houses together - Judah (the Jews) and Israel (the Church). It is true, that spiritually, we are all equal and the same in Christ, but God did have a physical chosen people by which He said He would bless all the nations of the earth through - the seed of Abraham. All Israel (physical) is these two houses, together, that the New Covenant is to, and God has promised to physically reunite them before or at the end. (Ez. 37:16,17). We are not to boast against, being arrogant enough to replace or do away with, the natural branches, but remember that God can and has promised to save a remnant of both houses along with all who come to Christ as wild branches to be grafted into the root of Abrahm.
The physical is still obviously important to God, and this surely means that He knows who are His seed and has His eye on them through history - always being faithful and never breaking His covenant with Abraham by which we are all blessed.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Ezekial 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Hosea 8:8 ¶ Israel is swallowed up; Now they are among the Gentiles Like a vessel in which is no pleasure.

Amos 9:9 "For surely I will command, And will sift the house of Israel among all nations, As grain is sifted in a sieve; Yet not the smallest grain shall fall to the ground.

Rom 11:18 stop being arrogant towards the branches. But if you are arrogant, [remember] _you_ do not sustain the root,
_but_ the root [sustains] you!
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off, so that _I_ should be grafted in."
20 Rightly [said]! They were broken off by unbelief, but _you_ have stood by your faith. Stop being conceited, _but_ be
fearing.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps neither will He spare you.
22 Therefore, look at [or, consider] [the] goodness and severity of God: on the one hand upon the ones having fallen,
severity; on the other hand upon you, kindness, if you remain in the goodness; otherwise, _you_ also will be cut off.
23 But also those, if they do not remain in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to again graft them in.
4 For if _you_, the [one] by nature of the wild olive tree, were cut out, and contrary to nature, were grafted into a
cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural ones, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire [for] you* to be unaware, brothers [and sisters], of this secret [or, mystery], so that you* shall
not be wise in your* own conceits, that hardness in part [fig., partial stubbornness] has happened to Israel until the
fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, just as it has been written, "The One delivering will come out of Zion, and He will
turn away impiety [or, ungodliness] from Jacob;

Gen 22:18 And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.

Two Thumbs Up!

 

[Ave Maria]

Here's my answer- I have no idea.

LOL! Same here. All I can say is to trust in God and don't lean on your own understanding:

[bible]Proverbs 3:5[/bible]

 

[Brian37]

Jews weren't chosen to be the only people saved, but as the instruments to bring the message and the means of God's salvation to all of His people.

What happens to people who don't find Jesus before they die?

My point being, I am Unitarian Universalist and an atheist, I go to a church with Christians, Jewish, Muslim and many other faiths. I can't emagine all these decent people of diversity being outcast by anyone.

To me, life isn't "us vs them". If we are going to survive as a species, then we need to come together, not always in agreement on issues, but in agreement that common ground can be found amongst the dissagreement.

So, in all honesty, it is not just revolations I have a problem with, but any book or group of people that puts itself above another. I bleed red and my ticker will give out like anyone else. If any one person could give us all the answers right now, there would be no need for any forum expressing any opinion by any group of any lable or religion.

I have found much comfort from may different people in my life. In times of striff I have cried on the shoulders of Jews, Christians and other atheists. In my time of need, I have never looked at the person's religion, but their actions. Now, if they atribute their positive actions to their religion, our dissagreement may be in that, but it will never change my apreciation for their kindness.

What does this have to do with "Chosen" people? It seems patriarchal in a system of hierarcy, to me. In my opinion, as long as I don't have all the answers, I will never claim to be "better" or "Chosen". I will simply dissagree, but still be willing to be friends and find common ground.

I guess over my years of non-belief, I is foriegn to me to think of myself or other atheists as "better" and don't see why any group, on any issue would want to make that claim. I have even challenged other atheists who claim that they are "better".

Thats my opinion.

 

[oworm]

In what manner does God need to glorify himself?

That’s a very good question



Firstly, he glorifies himself in order to show us that he is LORD





Ex 14:4

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD.



ISA 44:23 Sing for joy, O heavens, for the LORD has done this;

shout aloud, O earth beneath.

Burst into song, you mountains,

you forests and all your trees,

for the LORD has redeemed Jacob,

he displays his glory in Israel.





ISA 40:5 And the glory of the LORD will be revealed,

and all mankind together will see it.

For the mouth of the LORD has spoken."



ISA 66:18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come and gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory.



EZE 28:20 The word of the LORD came to me: 21 "Son of man, set your face against Sidon; prophesy against her 22 and say: `This is what the Sovereign LORD says:



" `I am against you, O Sidon,

and I will gain glory within you.

They will know that I am the LORD,

when I inflict punishment on her

and show myself holy within her.





EZE 39:21 "I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay upon them. 22 From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God.





JN 11:4 When he heard this, Jesus said, "This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it."





Secondly: He is jealous for his glory



ISA 42:8 "I am the LORD; that is my name!

I will not give my glory to another

or my praise to idols.

ISA 43:6 I will say to the north, `Give them up!'

and to the south, `Do not hold them back.'

Bring my sons from afar

and my daughters from the ends of the earth--



ISA 43:7 everyone who is called by my name,

whom I created for my glory,

whom I formed and made."







1CH 16:29 ascribe to the LORD the glory due his name.

Bring an offering and come before him;

worship the LORD in the splendor of his holiness.





ISA 26:15 You have enlarged the nation, O LORD;

you have enlarged the nation.

You have gained glory for yourself;

you have extended all the borders of the land.









ISA 48:9 For my own name's sake I delay my wrath;

for the sake of my praise I hold it back from you,

so as not to cut you off.



ISA 48:10 See, I have refined you, though not as silver;

I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.



ISA 48:11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this.

How can I let myself be defamed?

I will not yield my glory to another.











And thirdly: he reveals it in order that he be worshipped





DA 7:13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.









JN 8:49 "I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."





REV 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth--to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7 He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come.

 

[lucaspa]

God chose the jewish people to work out his salvation through them. Why would God need to chose "A" people. Isn't our God big enough to chose all people? And wouldnt' that make more sense

Let me throw my 2 cents worth in.

In the context of the time, God could not choose all people. Humans would not have understood it. A limitation of humans, not of God. We are a tribal people; we tend to view anyone that is not of our tribe as not-human and not belonging.

Remember, humans have had to grow up spiritually. When God revealed himself to humans by creating Israel out of nothing (a slave people), He demonstrated His existence and power in a way the people of the time would understand.

The first time that a human culture had "grown up" to the point where other tribes could be considered human and part of their tribe was the Roman Empire. People not born as Romans could become Roman citizens. Rome ran a polyglot empire composed of dozens or hundreds of tribes/national groups living together and considering themselves one people.

Was it a coincidence that Jesus was born at that time? The first time in history that a message of God for all people would have made sense?

 

[lucaspa]

That’s a very good question



Firstly, he glorifies himself in order to show us that he is LORD

Not how God glorifies Himself, but how does God need to glorify Himself? IOW, why would God need to glorify Himself? I have a hard time imagining God being insecure.

So what is the purpose of the self-glorification?

 

[oworm]

So what is the purpose of the self-glorification?

He glorifies himself in order to show us that he is LORD


But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD.



ISA 40:5 And the glory of the LORD will be revealed,

and all mankind together will see it.


EZE 39:21 "I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay upon them. 22 From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God.


the purpose it would seem is to draw attention to himself as THE LORD.

Of course God doesnt need to do anything as he is totally self sufficient.
It seems that he needs to glorify himself because man is too shortsighted to see it,so it has to be revealed to man by acts of mercy and judgement


Any way apologies to the Op as this thread seems to be going OT

 

[goodnews]

Hi there!



Let me paint a picture for you...

It's after the creation and fall of man, and God is no longer walking on the earth and talking with man, but the only way to communicate is through prayer.

God sits on His magnificent throne as God the Father, with the presence of the Eternal Word and Holy Spirit there on that singular throne. And God looks at his creations on the earth, looking for upright people who will accomplish His work... and He sees Noah, but God also sees all the peole who are not upright and righteous, and God call Noah to a special work, knowing that Noah will not fail.

You know the rest.

and mankind moves on... and then God spots Abraham. He calls him out of a polytheistic home and out of a polytheistic society and calls him away from his family, and God promises Abraham a land for his obedience.

You know... we don't know if God offered this same proposal to others because there's no other record, but when God offered that plan to Abraham, Abraham listen to what God said, and in time, learned to be so close to God that he was the only person to be called "God's friend".

The reward of that walk with God was the promise of a land and a people of his generations that would serve God, just as God said in the intial proposal.


Jas 2:23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
God chose "a people" and He tested them until they proved themselves... that took nearly 3500 years, until the time of the Babylonian captivity when "those chosen people" stopped trying to incorporate idol worship with worship to God. You see, "those chosen people" failed again and again, but Abraham's faith was the "guarantee" until the time of Christ....and God's promised Abraham a land and a people.

And they have paid a price for being the chosen of God... just as Christian pay a price in this world for being the chosen of God.



God not only is big enough to chose all people, but God did predestine all people to salvation. People either chose God or reject God, that is where free will fits in with predestination.


~serapha~

allow me to paint a second picture for you if I may.


Before God said 'LET THERE BE LIGHT!" before the earth was hung in space, the Son of the living God was slain. Before man had sinned, before the Serpent crawled on his belly Jesus was already sacrificed!

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This is because God had a PLAN from the beginning. God planted BOTH trees in the garden. God made the fruit beautiful, God made the serpent subtle and wise, God made Eve foolish and weak, God made Adam out of the DUST to show the FLESH can not resist sin. What has happened COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED ANY OTHER WAY! God created man with a carnal nature so that he would fall and NEED a savior! That is how and why Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world, so that he could be MERCIFUL to ALL. The whole world is BORN blind and lies in wickedness, there are none that do good, ALL have turned aside, none know God, none have understanding! And we should all ask WHY would God do such a thing? To destroy the vast majority of his weak, pathetic creation? GOD FORBID! Every man woman and child who has ever lived HAS A PURPOSE. It man who makes mistakes and errors in Judgement, not God! God uses every single person, and God LOVES EVERY SINGLE PERSON. We can not forget this EVER.

Why was Isreal a chosen nation? Because they were Examples, Types and Shadows of Believers in the NT

1 Corinthians 10:1-11 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

God completely controled the history of Israel to give us examples, types and shadows of the world and our walk with God. They lived under the law, a temporary SHADDOW of the REALITY, which is Christ. The reality is always Christ.

What was the PROMISE to Abraham?

That in his SEED ALL THE NATIONS SHALL BE BLESSED! Now that doesn't sound very exclusive to me, does it to you? The PROMISE IS JESUS! Now in the NT we inherit this promise by faith! The coolest thing is that this promise is NOT JUST FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, but for ALL MANKIND. That is why:

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Modern Christiandom seems to want the same exclusivity that Israel had, but the reality is Jesus died for the sin of the whole world.

 

[Brother Owl]

Hello goodnews

The Jewish people were and still are special to God. They had and still have a special place in history and in our future. That is not to exclude the rest of the world. For all who believe become partakers also with Israel and heirs of the promises. There is no jew or greek no male nor female in Christ. However Israel is still an ensign to the Nations and the Jews were called to a very specific calling which is distinct in all the earth.

We are all equal in that we are all now able to become sons and daughters, but the distinction of our various places and callings still remain. A prophet is a child of God even as an Evangelist is but their callings and purposes are distinct. A man and woman are equal yet the man is still the "head" in the marriage relationship. In such a manner also Jews are distinct and have a different calling then do gentiles as it relates to God's purposes in this earth.

Regarding "everyone will be saved" as you seem to be saying in your post. I hope I'm wrong here and you are right but there seems to be more than enough evidence to the contrary. Who is being cast into the lake of fire? Who is suffering the second death? Why are we told those who practice, adultery, fornication, lying, etc., etc. will not enter into the Kingdom of heaven?

I agree Jesus died for all men but not all men will be saved. We must trust in Jesus and continue in that trust in order to be saved. At least that is what I believe. Once I had a conversation with someone who believes there is no hell. I was hopeful they could convince me of this, however, they could not to my great disappointment.

Blessings!
Brother Owl

 

[Zug-Zwang]

Your perception of the Israelites is shaped by our modern interpretations. God always had a heart and a ministry to the Gentiles. They were called to be His people just as the "Jews" were. In fact, the "Jews" were never a pure blooded race- the patriarchs, those who came out of Egyptain bondage, etc, all show the universality of the Jewish nation, how Gentiles lived side by side with "Jews." God has always been working with Gentiles as well as Jews. He is not biased. The only reason that he chose a specific people was first of all to have a tangible line for the Messiah to come from, and also because the Jews were one of the few groups of people who ever allowed God to use them to reveal more of His word, his Will, his character, etc.

I agree with Ichus and also G-d never chose a people or a nation,he chose 1 person,1 family.He chose Abraham and brought him out and made him his own.He brought Moses out also and when Israel became a nation upon walking out with the stranger,they came to the mountain and sinned.G-d told Moses to stand aside and he would kill the multitude and make a nation out of Moses.Moses pleaded with G-d and Moses had 2 sons.Gershom{stranger} and Eliezer{son of my house}.

 

[Rich48]

God chose the jewish people to work out his salvation through them. Why would God need to chose "A" people. Isn't our God big enough to chose all people? And wouldnt' that make more sense

Sure He is! However, because man sinned, God had to (perhaps "had to" is not the best choice of words-maybe "wanted to" might be better) provide a means that man might be reconciled to Him. The Messiah had to come from somewhere, and God chose the Jewish race from which He was to come in order to provide our redemption. The Jewish race was "chosen" to become the race from which the Saviour of the world was to come.

Rich

 

[jewishprincess613]

God chose the jewish people to work out his salvation through them. Why would God need to chose "A" people. Isn't our God big enough to chose all people? And wouldnt' that make more sense

Since the vast majority of Christians do not know the Jewish view of the "chosen people", I am going to explain it in an unbiased way, and hopefully I will be permitted to post this.

First of all, the "chosen people" does not mean that G~d favoured the Jews over all people and therefore chose only them to take His wonderful Torah. In fact, it is said in the Talmud that G~d had offered it to ALL other nations BEFORE the Jews, and all rejected it. The Jews were the ones who accepted it and so they received the yoke of the mitzvos. This does not mean that G~d hates others and that all are doomed. It means that the Jews are required to fulfill THEIR mitzvos (commandments) and the Gentiles are required to fulfill THEIR'S. Yes, even Gentiles were given commandments and are expected to live a righteous life. After the flood, G~d made a covenant with Noach and this applies to all. The Jews received more mitzvos when they accepted the Torah, but the 7 Laws of Noach still and always will apply to the Gentiles. It is not a matter of favoritism at all, and that is a huge misconception by most people. G~d has a covenant with all--it is just not the same one, and a matter of understanding that G~d loves all of His children, Jewish or not.....

 

[Rev. Smith]

Since the vast majority of Christians do not know the Jewish view of the "chosen people", I am going to explain it in an unbiased way, and hopefully I will be permitted to post this.

First of all, the "chosen people" does not mean that G~d favoured the Jews over all people and therefore chose only them to take His wonderful Torah. In fact, it is said in the Talmud that G~d had offered it to ALL other nations BEFORE the Jews, and all rejected it. The Jews were the ones who accepted it and so they received the yoke of the mitzvos. This does not mean that G~d hates others and that all are doomed. It means that the Jews are required to fulfill THEIR mitzvos (commandments) and the Gentiles are required to fulfill THEIR'S. Yes, even Gentiles were given commandments and are expected to live a righteous life. After the flood, G~d made a covenant with Noach and this applies to all. The Jews received more mitzvos when they accepted the Torah, but the 7 Laws of Noach still and always will apply to the Gentiles. It is not a matter of favoritism at all, and that is a huge misconception by most people. G~d has a covenant with all--it is just not the same one, and a matter of understanding that G~d loves all of His children, Jewish or not.....

It's good to hear the foundation from an adhearant, that is the Old Catholic understanding as well of the meaning of Choice, that the Lord choose the Jews to receive his revelation, but that it is through them that He revealed himself to all his people.

 

[Conor]

There is in fact almost a whole chapter in the bible dedicated to addressing the topic of God's soveirgn choice

In this chapter God basicaly says that he does not have to explain himself and we should not drag the creator of the universe to account for himself before the court of human reason .
Why did God choose Israel or the jews ? the honest answer is we dont know . We do however know that the reason God chooses individuals or nations is not based on the fact that he foresees something special or good about them .
I am going to quote romans chapter 9 from verse 9 to verse 24 " in other words , it is not the natural children who are Gods children , but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as abrahams offspring .
For this was how the promise was stated
At the appointed time i will return and sarah will have a son Not only that nut rebekaha children had one and the same father , our father Isaac.
Yet , before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad - in order that Gods purpose in election might stand ;
Not by works but by him who calls - she was told
the older will serve the younger Just as it is written Jacob i loved but essau i hated .
What then shall we say ? Is God unjust ? Not at all !
For he says to moses
I will have mercy on whom i have mercy
and i will have compassion on whom i have compassion .
It does not therefore depend on mans desire or effort but on Gods mercy . For the scripture says to pharaoh
i raised you up for this very purpose , that i might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth .
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and he hardens whom he wants to harden .
One of you will say to me then why does God still blame us ? For who resists his will ?
But who are you oh man to talk back to God?
Shall what is formed say him who formed it why did you make me like this ?
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use ?
What if God choosing to show his wrath bore with great patience the objects of his wrath - prepared for destruction what if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy , whom he prepared in advance for glory - even us , whom he also called , not only from the jews but also from the gentiles " END QUOTE

The idea that God chooses us not depending on our will desire or effort goes against the grain with us and we tend to say "thats not fair "
Paul in romans 9 anticipates that but does not give an eplaination but rather asserts that we dont have the right to tell God on what basis he should make choices .

 

[GenemZ]

Shema Yisroel: Adonai Eloheynu, Adonai Echad

Translated (I used to sing this with the congregation every Saturday morning in Shuel...)

Hear O Israel! The Lord1 our God2, the Lord3 is One!

Three mentions of the Godhead...

And........

"Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." Genesis 1:26

Yidel Ben Meyer..... AKA GeneZ