Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

[Hentenza]

I did and I have also read the Bible and this is the instructions our Lord and Savior said on the subject for our instruction and correction. If you note, there is not an exception that we can add our words to God's Word, if we are leaning on our own understanding. Notice there are no exceptions.

So Jesus is not the Lord of the sabbath?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Another false accusation you made about me that you can’t prove. Show one post where I said Jesus is not Lord of the Sabbath.

Where in my post did I accused you of that?

No one said anything about Jesus is not Lord of the Sabbath,

You did. Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

What Jesus did say

And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

So Jesus is not the Lord of the sabbath?

Just a game.

It gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[Hentenza]

Just a game.

It gets sorted out soon enough.

Not a game from my side. All you have to show is that the law was given to the gentiles collectively and that the Christian is required to keep the Sabbath by posting a post resurrection verse that teaches that. Also that anyone kept the sabbath prior to Moses. You guys claim sola scriptura so post the verses.

 

[HIM]

No you added Jesus “became”, which is not there.

Because He was not a man before and the sabbath was made for man.

You like scholars so much. Show one that supports your thinking please in respect to Matt 12:1-8, Mark 2:23-28, Luk 6:1-5 thanks.

Again, the vast majority of translations do not translate it your way. You are not a Bible scholar with full competency in Greek so I’m going to go with the experts. In fact I find it quite interesting that the KJV and NKJV differ although both are translated using the same text.

Doesn't matter truth is truth. Neither you nor they can refute it.

And the truth is, there is only one way to translate the Greek correctly to which the New Testament is from. Both the Byzantine Text type and the Alexandrian read the same in respect to the word in question, "IF". First the TR from of the Byzantine text type.

Heb 4:5 καὶ And ἐν In τούτῳ This ' Place ' πάλιν Again Εἰ If εἰσελεύσονται They Shall Enter εἰς Into τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου My Rest.

Here is the WH from the Alexandrian:
Heb 4:5 και εν τουτω παλιν ει εισελευσονται εις την καταπαυσιν μου

Here is how the word in question is defined. First from Thayer then from Strongs.

- Original: εἰ
- Transliteration: Ei
- Phonetic: i
- Definition:
1. if, whether
- Origin: a primary particle of conditionality
- TDNT entry: None
- Part(s) of speech: Conjunction

- Strong's: A primary particle of conditionality;
if whether that etc.: - forasmuch as if that ([al-]) though whether. Often used in connection or composition with other particles especially as in G1489 G1490 G1499 G1508 G1509 G1512 G1513 G1536 and G1537. See also G1437.

So why translate the Hebrew from Psalm 95 that way? Because when the writer thought of Psalm 95 HE thought of the Greek LXX which translates the Hebrew the same way as does the TR and the WH. Here is that translation. I will put the TR and the WH below it so you can see for yourself.

The LXX:
Ps 95:11 ὡς ὤμοσα ἐν τῇ ὀργῇ μου Εἰ εἰσελεύσονται εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου.

The TR: Heb 4:5 καὶ And ἐν In τούτῳ This ' Place ' πάλιν Again Εἰ If εἰσελεύσονται They Shall Enter εἰς Into τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου My Rest.

Here is the WH from the Alexandrian:
Heb 4:5 και εν τουτω παλιν ει εισελευσονται εις την καταπαυσιν μου

Couple that with the fact that the verse 3 makes no sense any other way. It would be a contradiction within the text itself if the if which is in the text was not translated so. For how could we who do enter into rest, enter therein if God sworn in His wrath that we shall not?

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

And that is the truth. THERE is NO REFUTING IT. If there was you would have said something other than, "Again, the vast majority of translations do not translate it your way. You are not a Bible scholar".

 

[Hentenza]

You like scholars so much. Show one that supports your thinking please in respect to Matt 12:1-8, Mark 2:23-28, Luk 6:1-5 thanks.

Matt 12:1-8 Jesus is defending the actions of the hungry apostles and using the actions of David as precedent. He argues that fulfilling human need and showing mercy is more important than rigid sabbath rules. Jesus then declares that something greater than the temple is here referring to Himself and the true purpose of worship. Jesus then claims divine authority as Lord of the Sabbath meaning that He gets to determine the true meaning of the sabbath.

Mark 2:23-28 and Luke 6:1-5- same as above.

Why did Jesus claimed the title of Lord of the Sabbath so plainly and prominently? Because He became man of course and the sabbath was made for man.


“who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross. For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2‬:‭6‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Philippians 2:6-11 (NASB2020) - who, as He already existed in the f | YouVersion

who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of me

bible.com

“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Mark 2:27-28 (NASB2020) - Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath wa | YouVersion

Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

Notice the “so” starting verse 28 making verse 28 the conclusion of verse 27. In other words, because the sabbath was made for man therefore Jesus is Lord of the sabbath.

ὥστε hṓste, hoce'-teh; from G5613 and G5037; so too, i.e. thus therefore (in various relations of consecution, as follow):—(insomuch) as, so that (then), (insomuch) that, therefore, to, wherefore.

Doesn't matter truth is truth. Neither you nor they can refute it.

It does matter. The truth is that you are making an amateur determination that only makes sense to you and not to the greek scholars that actually know the proper definition and usage of the word. Do you even speak Koine Greek? You are yet to explain why the NKJV fixed the translation errors of the KJV when both are translated from the same text.

 

[HIM]

Not a game from my side.

I don’t think That is true. Your posts show otherwise. And I think you know it.

All you have to show is that the law was given to the gentiles collectively

It wasn't in respect to the Book of the Law unless they came to God during the time when Israel was entrusted with the Oracles of God.

Prior to Moses they, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Abraham, Issaac, Jacob, Joseph and what not walked with God as Adam was suppose to, through God's Spirit and Faith. Faith, They Believed in God and believed God. His striving with them through His Spirit, which kept them walking with God.

As it is written. Enoch walk with God and was not. As as God testified about Abraham. He obeyed God's voice. kept God's charge, His commandments and statutes.

Actually since Moses wrote the Book of the Law and wrote this of Abraham with the Book of the Law in mind the onus falls on you to prove that the Sabbath was not kept by Abraham and other Patriarchs. If your argument is, it isn't mentioned that they kept it. That argument falls short in respect to the fact there are many commandments and statutes not mentioned which are heinous sins, like bestiality. Yet we assume they were.


Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

and that the Christian is required to keep the Sabbath by posting a post resurrection verse that teaches that.

You were shown the truth and denied the straight forth reading of it. The way this is suppose to work is, points are made about passages. Said points are read and then they are proven wrong by showing the error in the points. We are already speaking on your misunderstanding of Verses 4:4 and 5 due to a bad translation of the text in respect to the word of. You haven't proven anything there yet are persistent which is strange really considering you said you were playing games

“For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith.
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The good news was preached to the Hebrew converts but it did not benefit them because they are not united with those who listen with faith.
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No, that is not what the verse is saying. The Good News here that did not benefit them is in respect to The Good news preached to those who were being spoken of in chapter three who were hindered from entering into the promised land. The writer of Hebrews is saying they in his time have had Good News preached to them as those who were in Moses time did. But those in Moses' time did not heed because of their evil heart of unbelief. They did not believe what God said. They did not have faith in God therefore their carcasses fell in the desert because of their sin.

“For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My anger, They certainly shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


What is that rest?

Yes, the rest we have in Christ Jesus being His House. If we hold fast in confidence we will remain His house as He succours (helps) us when we are tempted. We just need to listen to His voice as we hear it. This is the Gospel. Part of it anyway.

Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour (helps) them that are tempted.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

“For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this passage, “They certainly shall not enter My rest.””
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS”; and again in this passage, “THEY CERTAINLY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.”
bible.com
Look at the contrast. The writer clearly refers to the sabbath rest in the first part of the verse and then states that they are not going to enter such rest. Why would that be if any Jews could observe the sabbath? The temple was not destroyed yet so they could just go to the temple on the seventh day. No one is going to enter the believers rest unless they have accepted the gospel of good news and has faith.
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Bad translation, the word if needs to be in the text as it is in the verse three below. Go to your Greek to English Interlinear you will see yourself.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.


The Rest here in verse 3 is that of the Good News, the rest we have in Christ Jesus being His house. There He helps us when we are tempted if we listen to His voice. The works for this rest were finished from the foundation of the world is what these verses are saying. This is brought out even more in verse 4 where he starts the verse with the word "for" which adds a reason to that which was previously stated. There it states that when God spake in that certain place Mt Sinia, that He said that He rested from all His works. That would include resting from the works for the rest which is the Good news of Christ Jesus. Verse 5 continues in that it says, "in this again".

In this again what? This brings us back to verse 4 where it says, He speaks of the Seventh Day, if we shall enter into the Rest which we have in Christ Jesus being His house listening to His voice.

Heb 4:5 And in this again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Why does he say that? Let's continue and we shall see.

“Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
This verse goes back to those that did not enter into the promise land depicted at the end of chapter three. They rejected the good news because if their disobedience and lack of faith as the previous verse teaches. See the use of the word “therefore” again?

No, this is present tense for the writer. Those in the time of Moses had their time. This text is being said in context to verse 5 where it says IF they shall enter into His rest which is the Good News He speaks again of the Seventh Day when God did rest from all His works. The clause from verse, “Therefore, since it remains for some to enter" is being spoken in the present tense. And the clause. "and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience" is basically being spoken in the past tense. He is making a contrast to those of his time not entering into the rest which is the Good News due to disobedience, as in the time of Moses and Joshua.

“He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.”

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭7‬-‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.” For if Joshua had given them res
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So a new day is set, today. There is urgency in accepting the gospel of good news and not continuing on the law....
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Yes Heb3;7 and 8 is a call to accept the Good News. Not on a certain day, but today. As the text says, Joshua did not give them this Rest when He led Israel into the promised Land.

Every day God wants us to hear His voice, Christ Jesus. Succoring us, helping us when we our tempted. These verses are basically being repeated from chapter three where the writer first quoted the Psalm. There in verse 7 he spoke in the present tense in context to verse 6. There it is also a call to repentence. Called to hold fast our confidence in His voice firm unto the end. Have not that evil heart of unbelief, not trusting God.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

“Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
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The mention of the sabbath rest here is a shadow of the actual sabbath rest as evidenced by the previous verses. Joshua entered the promise land with the law at hand but did not provided them rest. Then those that do enter His rest, the believers rest, has rested from his works which here is the works of the law. Look at the sentence construction here. The fist part of the verse mentions a sabbath rest left but the second part of the post only mentions His rest which is consistent with the chapter so far talking about a believers rest.
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No, verses 4:9 and 10 pick up where verses 4 and 5 left off. Verse 5 starts the call to repent and enter into God's rest heeding His voice through Christ and rest from our evil heart of unbelief.

We say that because verse 5 says if they shall enter into His rest. Because the writer sees as we do that some must enter therein. So today if we hear His voice let's not harden our hearts as in the day of provocation, but hold fast our confidence firm unto the end.

Verse 5 says as was said before, In this again, IF they shall enter into my rest.

What again?

To keep in context to verse 4, as was said we must conclude, The Again is the speaking of the Seventh Day. Two things being spoken of here. A speaking of the Seventh Day AGAIN with a condition. We know this by the word if. I’m other words, if we shall enter Rest in Christ Jesus He speaks again of the Seventh Day.

In context to that He says there remains therefore a Sabbath Keeping for the people of God. For the one who has entered into His Rest. The Good News of being His House, whose House we are if we hold fast our confidence firm unto the end heeding His voice, His helping us when we are tempted in sin. He ALSO, IN ADDITION TO ENTERING INTO THIS REST. He also ceases from His own works AS, JUST LIKE God did from His on the Seventh Day.

Two things not one. NO WAY AROUND THAT. The Rest which is the Good News and, ALSO the ceasing from our own works, AS, just like God did FROM HIS on the Seventh Day. The verse says as, which means just like God did from His SO UNLESS you or anyone else is going to say God had an evil heart of unbelief and needed to enter into His Rest, the good news in Christ Jesus and heed His own voice. The ceasing from our own works as God did from His must be that in which was spoken in that certain place, Mt Sinia. And that ceasing from our OWN WORKS was the physical works of our hands that we do. NOT SPIRITUAL. Because God rested from His physical work of Creation. And because He did, He hallowed the Seventh Day and sanctified it. So, He speaks again of the Seventh Day and the keeping of the Sabbath if we enter into His rest, Good News, Christ Jesus. And how does He speak it it. He calls for us to keep it as He did cease from our own work.



Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Heb 4:9 There remains, therefore, Sabbathkeeping for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered into His rest, he also has ceased from his works, just as God did from His own works.


It is a Sabbath keeping not Sabbath rest in verse 4:9. There is a difference. If you keep the Sabbath you are resting on the Seventh Day. And the Seventh Day is the Premise of the context as verses 4:4 and 5 put forth. Because that is what He spoke of on that certain place, Mt Sinia.

In almost all Lexicons the first citation after the word in question is the definition. What follows that typically is how it is seen figuratively as seen in Strong's and ABSMLG where it is stated. Or how it is interpreted or being used in a translation or in the mind of the author as seen in the other lexicons cited below.


Thayer's citation: Original: σαββατισμός
- Transliteration: Sabbatismos
- Phonetic: sab-bat-is-mos'
- Definition:
1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
- Origin: from a derivative of G4521
- TDNT entry: 07:35,0
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine

Strong's citation: From a derivative of G4521; a sabbatism a sabbatism that is (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven): - rest.

Webster's definition of sabbatism
-ˌtizəm
noun
plural -s
the strict observance of the sabbath

LSJ's citation: Σαββᾰτ-ισμός , ὁ , a keeping of days of rest, Ep. Hebr. 4.9 , cf. Plu. 2.166a (codd., βαπτισμούς Bentley).

ABSMGL's citation:
G4520
*† σαββατισμός, -οῦ, ὁ
(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exo 16:30, al.),
a keeping sabbath, a sabbath rest: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†

“Therefore let’s make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same example of disobedience.”

Hebrews 4:11 Therefore let’s make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same example of disobedience. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now​

Therefore let’s make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same example of disobedience.
bible.com
Notice here that it is THAT rest not the sabbath rest that we are to enter. The rest that we have to enter is the believers rest that we enter by faith. It even exhorts us to be careful not to follow the example of those listed at the bottom of chapter three that did not enter the promise land because of their lack of faith and disobedience.
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RIght, the writer continues in respect to the rest which is the Good news that we are His house, if hold fast our confidence firm unto the end heeding His voice, so we do not follow after the same example of disobedience through unbelief, not trusting His voice, His help when we are tempted.

 

[jonojim1337]

There remains A Sabbath. Not one gazillions.

 

[Studyman]

Not a game from my side. All you have to show is that the law was given to the gentiles collectively and that the Christian is required to keep the Sabbath by posting a post resurrection verse that teaches that. Also that anyone kept the sabbath prior to Moses. You guys claim sola scriptura so post the verses.

It is said by God about Abraham, that Isaac was blessed "Because" that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws..

God also said of Abraham, "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and "they shall keep the way of the LORD", to do justice and judgment"; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Consider the incredible hubris and foolishness of a man who would imply in his teaching, that the only Laws, Statutes and Commandments of God given to Abraham, were those that God had recorded at the time. That somehow, the only Law, Commandment and Statute and Judgment that existed before Moses, was the command to cut the loose skin of the mans penis, which is the ONLY Law recorded, that was given to Abraham, that was to apply to future generations.

Such a philosophy is absurd, but according to your post, if I am "Sola Scripture", then that is the standard you would require of me. Do you really believe that we are privy to EVERY Conversation God had with Noah, when HE walked with him? Or EVERY detail of the conversations God had with Abraham when God defined for Abraham, "The Way of the Lord", His Judgments, Statutes, Commandments and Laws? Clearly God showed him His commandments, judgments and Statutes, even though God didn't Inspire it to be written down until the Exodus.

We know adultery is a Commandment of God, because God says so in Ex. 20. We also know that Abimelech knew that God commanded not to commit adultery, and also knew the wages of this sin is death. Clearly God showed him His commandment, even though God didn't Inspire it to be written down until the Exodus.

Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean animals. But we are not privy to the contents of all the discussions that took place when Noah walked with God, in fact, we are not privy to any of those discussion. Are we to believe God didn't speak to Noah, except the words recording in Scripture? The mindset that there was no Judgment of God concerning what animals were for food, and what animals were not, because God's Judgments concerning them were not written down until the Exodus is foolishness, in my view. Clearly Noah and God had discussed His Judgments, even though God chose not to include you in the conversation.

Noah's sons knew Gods Commandment concerning the wickedness of looking on the nakedness of their father. One son refused to honor God in this known commandment, and was punished, which the other two sons honored God in His Commandment. Clearly God showed them His commandments, even though God didn't include us in the conversation.

The philosophy that the Commandment didn't exist, or was not obeyed before God inspired Moses to write it down is a complete rejection of what is actually written, and frankly absurd. Why would a person even make such a declaration?

Paul said;

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

That would also include Abraham, Yes? And Sodom as well. Or is it your contention that God kills men for disobeying His Commandments HE never gave to them?

Noah was a "preacher of Righteousness", accord to what is written in the Holy Scriptures, doesn't that mean that God revealed His Righteousness unto Noah? Shall I then reject Paul's teaching, because God didn't include you in the discussion where God was revealing His Righteousness to Noah?

I am "Sola Scripture". It is "Because" of scripture, that I believe God gave Noah and Abraham His instruction in Righteousness, Judgments, Commandments, Statutes and Laws. I have no reason or certainly authority to exclude a commandment of God, just because a religious voice in the Garden placed me in, who "Professes to know God", teaches to exclude it.

Your argument that God's instruction in Righteousness HE gave to Abraham, was different that God's instruction in Righteousness HE gave to Abraham's Children, has no Scriptural Support. But the religious tradition to promote such foolishness, has existed in this world for a long time before God placed me here.

So the argument that God Set apart and Sanctified and made Holy, the 7th days of the Week, and according to the Jesus "of the Bible", did so "FOR MAN", but didn't give it to man until the Exodus, because it wasn't written down until Exodus, has no more scriptural support than an argument that God didn't give Cain and Abel His Commandment "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart", or "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind" because it wasn't written down until the Exodus.

What was right and wrong for Noah and Abraham, was also right and wrong, for Noah's and Abraham's Children, in my view. And this because of Paul's teaching, "For there is no respect of persons with God".

To preach that God's definition of righteousness is different for one man than another, might be popular in the religions of this world, but is not representative of the teaching of the God "of the Bible", according to my understanding of Scriptures.

 

[Hentenza]

That is not true. Your posts show otherwise. And I think you know it.

Typical. When you cant beat the argument then discredit the poster.

It wasn't it respect to the Book of the Law unless they came to God during the time when Israel was entrusted with the Oracles of God.

Prior to Moses they, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Abraham, Issaac, Jacob, Joseph and what not walked with God as Adam was suppose to, through God's Spirit and Faith. Faith, They Believed in God and believed God. His striving with them through His Spirit, which kept them walking with God.

As it is written. Enoch walk with God and was not. As as God testified about Abraham. He obeyed God's voice. kept God's charge, His commandments and statutes.

Actually since Moses wrote the Book of the Law and wrote this of Abraham with the Book of the Law in mind the onus falls on you to prove that the Sabbath was not kept by Abraham and other Patriarchs. If your argument is, it isn't mentioned that they kept it. That argument falls short in respect to the fact there are many commandments and statutes not mentioned which are heinous sins, like bestiality. Yet we assume they were.


Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

What commandments, statutes, and laws did Abraham obeyed? Did he obey the Mosaic law including the tablets of stone? Of course not, that law was not given until 430 years later. The only laws given so far were the seven Noahic laws and God gave Abraham a covenant of circumcision. None of which included sabbath keeping. Do you have a verse that shows anyone keeping the sabbath before Moses?

You were shown the truth and denied the straight forth reading of it. The way this is suppose to work is, points are made about passages. Said points are read and then they are proven wrong by showing the error in the points. We are already speaking on your misunderstanding of Verses 4:4 and 5 due to a bad translation of the text in respect to the word of. You haven't proven anything there yet are persistent which is strange really considering you said you were playing games

Your opinion and not supported by scripture.

No, that is not what the verse is saying. The Good News here that did not benefit them is in respect to The Good news preached to those who were being spoken of in chapter three who were hindered from entering into the promised land. The writer of Hebrews is saying they in his time have had Good News preached to them as those who were in Moses time did. But those in Moses' time did not heed because of their evil heart of unbelief. They did not believe what God said. They did not have faith in God therefore their carcasses fell in the desert because of their sin.

In chapter 3 the writer of Hebrews sets the stage for the discussion in chapter 4. Notice the beginning of chapter 4 begins with “therefore” which means that what follows are conclusions of what preceded it. These verse talking about the rest based on faith not the rest based on the law and are contrasted otherwise if it was the rest given by the law then Joshua (not Jesus) would have given them the rest. The rest here and discussed throughout chapter 4 is the rest of the believer which is the rest given by faith in Christ. Today, with urgency, have faith and not harden your heart.

Yes, the rest we have in Christ Jesus being His House. If we hold fast in confidence we will remain His house as He succours (helps) us when we are tempted. We just need to listen to His voice as we hear it. This is the Gospel. Part of it anyway.

Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour (helps) them that are tempted.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Ok. No law here and no sabbath keeping here.

Bad translation, the word if needs to be in the text as it is in the verse three below. Go to your Greek to English Interlinear you will see yourself.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.


The Rest here in verse 3 is that of the Good News, the rest we have in Christ Jesus being His house. There He helps us when we are tempted if we listen to His voice. The works for this rest were finished from the foundation of the world is what these verses are saying. This is brought out even more in verse 4 where he starts the verse with the word "for" which adds a reason to that which was previously stated. There it states that when God spake in that certain place Mt Sinia, that He said that He rested from all His works. That would include resting from the works for the rest which is the Good news of Christ Jesus. Verse 5 continues in that it says, "in this again".

In this again what? This brings us back to verse 4 where it says, He speaks of the Seventh Day, if we shall enter into the Rest which we have in Christ Jesus being His house listening to His voice.

Heb 4:5 And in this again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Why does he say that?

Your opinion. The translation is fine.

Let's continue and we shall see.

Lets not get preachy here.

No, this is present tense for the writer. Those in the time of Moses had their time. This text is being said in context to verse 5 where it says IF they shall enter into His rest which is the Good News He speaks again of the Seventh Day when God did rest from all His works. The clause from verse, “Therefore, since it remains for some to enter" is being spoken in the present tense. And the clause. "and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience" is basically being spoken in the past tense. He is making a contrast to those of his time not entering into the rest which is the Good News due to disobedience, as in the time of Moses and Joshua.

The contrast is disobedience versus faith not obedience versus disobedience. In order to enter the rest those that remain to enter need faith while those that did not enter ultimately was for their lack of faith because keepjng the law is impossible and did not trust God to provide them with water.

“And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭18‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 3:18-19 (NASB2020) - And to whom did He swear that they | YouVersion

And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

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The writer of Hebrews telling you why in these verses.

Yes Heb3;7 and 8 is a call to accept the Good News. Not on a certain day, but today. As the text says, Joshua did not give them this Rest when He led Israel into the promised Land.

Every day God wants us to hear His voice, Christ Jesus. Succoring us, helping us when we our tempted. These verses are basically being repeated from chapter three where the writer first quoted the Psalm. There in verse 7 he spoke in the present tense in context to verse 6. There it is also a call to repentence. Called to hold fast our confidence in His voice firm unto the end. Have not that evil heart of unbelief, not trusting God.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Ok although my full discussion is in the post that you quoted this little bit from.

No, verses 4:9 and 10 pick up where verses 4 and 5 left off. Verse 5 starts the call to repent and enter into God's rest heeding His voice through Christ and rest from our evil heart of unbelief.

We say that because verse 5 says if they shall enter into His rest. Because the writer sees as we do that some must enter therein. So today if we hear His voice let's not harden our hearts as in the day of provocation, but hold fast our confidence firm unto the end.

Verse 5 says as was said before, In this again, IF they shall enter into my rest.

There is no if in verse 5. You continue in error here.

What again?

To keep in context to verse 4, as was said we must conclude, The Again is the speaking of the Seventh Day. Two things being spoken of here. A speaking of the Seventh Day AGAIN with a condition. We know this by the word if. I’m other words, if we shall enter Rest in Christ Jesus He speaks again of the Seventh Day.

In context to that He says there remains therefore a Sabbath Keeping for the people of God. For the one who has entered into His Rest. The Good News of being His House, whose House we are if we hold fast our confidence firm unto the end heeding His voice, His helping us when we are tempted in sin. He ALSO, IN ADDITION TO ENTERING INTO THIS REST. He also ceases from His own works AS, JUST LIKE God did from His on the Seventh Day.

Two things not one. NO WAY AROUND THAT. The Rest which is the Good News and, ALSO the ceasing from our own works, AS, just like God did FROM HIS on the Seventh Day. The verse says as, which means just like God did from His SO UNLESS you or anyone else is going to say God had an evil heart of unbelief and needed to enter into His Rest, the good news in Christ Jesus and heed His own voice. The ceasing from our own works as God did from His must be that in which was spoken in that certain place, Mt Sinia. And that ceasing from our OWN WORKS was the physical works of our hands that we do. NOT SPIRITUAL. Because God rested from His physical work of Creation. And because He did, He hallowed the Seventh Day and sanctified it. So, He speaks again of the Seventh Day and the keeping of the Sabbath if we enter into His rest, Good News, Christ Jesus. And how does He speak it it. He calls for us to keep it as He did cease from our own work.



Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Heb 4:9 There remains, therefore, Sabbathkeeping for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For the one who has entered into His rest, he also has ceased from his works, just as God did from His own works.


It is a Sabbath keeping not Sabbath rest in verse 4:9. There is a difference. If you keep the Sabbath you are resting on the Seventh Day. And the Seventh Day is the Premise of the context as verses 4:4 and 5 put forth. Because that is what He spoke of on that certain place, Mt Sinia.

In almost all Lexicons the first citation after the word in question is the definition. What follows that typically is how it is seen figuratively as seen in Strong's and ABSMLG where it is stated. Or how it is interpreted or being used in a translation or in the mind of the author as seen in the other lexicons cited below.


Thayer's citation: Original: σαββατισμός
- Transliteration: Sabbatismos
- Phonetic: sab-bat-is-mos'
- Definition:
1. a keeping sabbath
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
- Origin: from a derivative of G4521
- TDNT entry: 07:35,0
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine

Strong's citation: From a derivative of G4521; a sabbatism a sabbatism that is (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven): - rest.

Webster's definition of sabbatism
-ˌtizəm
noun
plural -s
the strict observance of the sabbath

LSJ's citation: Σαββᾰτ-ισμός , ὁ , a keeping of days of rest, Ep. Hebr. 4.9 , cf. Plu. 2.166a (codd., βαπτισμούς Bentley).

ABSMGL's citation:
G4520
*† σαββατισμός, -οῦ, ὁ
(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exo 16:30, al.),
a keeping sabbath, a sabbath rest: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†

RIght, the writer continues in respect to the rest which is the Good news that we are His house, if hold fast our confidence firm unto the end heeding His voice, so we do not follow after the same example of disobedience through unbelief, not trusting His voice, His help when we are tempted.

We are going to fully disagree here. The Sabbsth mentioned here is the shadow contrast to the rest by faith. This is the sabbath rest of the good news which does not include the law. The law is not of faith, therefore, the sabbath, which is part of the law, is not of faith. That is why there is no post resurrection verse requiring the Christian to keep the forth commandment and why Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath. You are reading your doctrine INTO these verses. The discussion we had earlier about Jesus defending the actions of the apostles during the Sabbath against the legalism of the Pharisees is a clear example why Jesus fulfilled (completed) the law and in particular the sabbath.

 

[Hentenza]

It is said by God about Abraham, that Isaac was blessed "Because" that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws..

God also said of Abraham, "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and "they shall keep the way of the LORD", to do justice and judgment"; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Consider the incredible hubris and foolishness of a man who would imply in his teaching, that the only Laws, Statutes and Commandments of God given to Abraham, were those that God had recorded at the time. That somehow, the only Law, Commandment and Statute and Judgment that existed before Moses, was the command to cut the loose skin of the mans penis, which is the ONLY Law recorded, that was given to Abraham, that was to apply to future generations.

Such a philosophy is absurd, but according to your post, if I am "Sola Scripture", then that is the standard you would require of me. Do you really believe that we are privy to EVERY Conversation God had with Noah, when HE walked with him? Or EVERY detail of the conversations God had with Abraham when God defined for Abraham, "The Way of the Lord", His Judgments, Statutes, Commandments and Laws? Clearly God showed him His commandments, judgments and Statutes, even though God didn't Inspire it to be written down until the Exodus.

We know adultery is a Commandment of God, because God says so in Ex. 20. We also know that Abimelech knew that God commanded not to commit adultery, and also knew the wages of this sin is death. Clearly God showed him His commandment, even though God didn't Inspire it to be written down until the Exodus.

Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean animals. But we are not privy to the contents of all the discussions that took place when Noah walked with God, in fact, we are not privy to any of those discussion. Are we to believe God didn't speak to Noah, except the words recording in Scripture? The mindset that there was no Judgment of God concerning what animals were for food, and what animals were not, because God's Judgments concerning them were not written down until the Exodus is foolishness, in my view. Clearly Noah and God had discussed His Judgments, even though God chose not to include you in the conversation.

Noah's sons knew Gods Commandment concerning the wickedness of looking on the nakedness of their father. One son refused to honor God in this known commandment, and was punished, which the other two sons honored God in His Commandment. Clearly God showed them His commandments, even though God didn't include us in the conversation.

The philosophy that the Commandment didn't exist, or was not obeyed before God inspired Moses to write it down is a complete rejection of what is actually written, and frankly absurd. Why would a person even make such a declaration?

Paul said;

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

That would also include Abraham, Yes? And Sodom as well. Or is it your contention that God kills men for disobeying His Commandments HE never gave to them?

Noah was a "preacher of Righteousness", accord to what is written in the Holy Scriptures, doesn't that mean that God revealed His Righteousness unto Noah? Shall I then reject Paul's teaching, because God didn't include you in the discussion where God was revealing His Righteousness to Noah?

I am "Sola Scripture". It is "Because" of scripture, that I believe God gave Noah and Abraham His instruction in Righteousness, Judgments, Commandments, Statutes and Laws. I have no reason or certainly authority to exclude a commandment of God, just because a religious voice in the Garden placed me in, who "Professes to know God", teaches to exclude it.

Your argument that God's instruction in Righteousness HE gave to Abraham, was different that God's instruction in Righteousness HE gave to Abraham's Children, has no Scriptural Support. But the religious tradition to promote such foolishness, has existed in this world for a long time before God placed me here.

So the argument that God Set apart and Sanctified and made Holy, the 7th days of the Week, and according to the Jesus "of the Bible", did so "FOR MAN", but didn't give it to man until the Exodus, because it wasn't written down until Exodus, has no more scriptural support than an argument that God didn't give Cain and Abel His Commandment "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart", or "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind" because it wasn't written down until the Exodus.

What was right and wrong for Noah and Abraham, was also right and wrong, for Noah's and Abraham's Children, in my view. And this because of Paul's teaching, "For there is no respect of persons with God".

To preach that God's definition of righteousness is different for one man than another, might be popular in the religions of this world, but is not representative of the teaching of the God "of the Bible", according to my understanding of Scriptures.

In other words your argument is from silence. Got it.

 

[truthuprootsevil]

Premises:
1. The Sabbath was a part of the Mosaic Law and of the Mosaic Law only.
2. The Law was only for Jews, since Moses till Christ.
3. Even the book of Genesis was a theological part of the Mosaic Law and is not literal (namely in its creation account).

If these premises are all true, we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath.

The Ten Commandments were laws written by God himself.

The Ten Commandments are apart of the mosaic laws the basis of the mosaic laws but separate from the mosaic laws.

Ceremonial laws such as rituals, purities priesthood, sacrifices, festivals, High/special Sabbath, (which is separate from The Seventh-Day Sabbath of God's commandment) and civil and judicial laws are the laws the gentiles may not be subject to.

God said remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

And to say that we're no longer under the law of the Sabbath you might as well say we are no longer under any of the Ten Commandments. To deny one is to deny all.

And if you want to refer to the new Commandments that is translated Jesus gave; those two Commandments are directly linked to the Ten Commandments: loving God, which is the first four of the Ten Commandments and loving your neighbor, which is the next six. They are not truly new Commandments, just shortened and simplified.

God knew what would happen, that man would change his Seventh-Day Sabbath to the first day, thus he said remember!

And let's not forget Hebrew Israelite Jews were supposed to be an example to all people of the Earth, decreed by God.

Mission in the Old Testament: Israel as a Light to the Nations

Walter Kaiser Jr., President Emeritus of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, wrote Mission in the Old Testament to challenge the idea that mission is a New Testament development and that Israel was involved in mission only centripetally, that is, attracting people to Yahweh by living out their...

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Mission in the Old Testament: Israel as a Light to the Nations - The Gospel Coalition Mission in the Old Testament: Israel as a Light to the Nations

 

[jonojim1337]

The Ten Commandments were laws written by God himself.

The Ten Commandments are apart of the mosaic laws the basis of the mosaic laws but separate from the mosaic laws.

Ceremonial laws such as rituals, purities priesthood, sacrifices, festivals, High/special Sabbath, (which is separate from The Seventh-Day Sabbath of God's commandment) and civil and judicial laws are the laws the gentiles may not be subject to.

God said remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

And to say that we're no longer under the law of the Sabbath you might as well say we are no longer under any of the Ten Commandments. To deny one is to deny all.

And if you want to refer to the new Commandments that is translated Jesus gave; those two Commandments are directly linked to the Ten Commandments: loving God, which is the first four of the Ten Commandments and loving your neighbor, which is the next six. They are not truly new Commandments, just shortened and simplified.

The ten commandments were given to the Israelites under the covenant of Abraham. That covenant no longer exists. It has been fulfilled.

God knew what would happen, that man would change his Seventh-Day Sabbath to the first day, thus he said remember!

No one has changed anything. We are still expected to enter the day that God rested.

 

[truthuprootsevil]

The ten commandments were given to the Israelites under the covenant of Abraham. That covenant no longer exists. It has been fulfilled.



No one has changed anything. We are still expected to enter the day that God rested.

Constantine changed the day of rest / worship from the seventh day to the 1st day. The Roman Church went right along with it, begin to call it the Lord's Day and most churches throughout the centuries have followed suit.

Sunday | Rest, Worship, Reflection | Britannica
Sunday | Rest, Worship, Reflection | Britannica

The Israelites were supposed to be an example to the world. God made the Covenant with Abraham that all nations through him would be blessed.
Genesis 22:18 And through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice." Genesis 22:18 - The Sacrifice Averted
The Abraham Covenant is still in force.

 

[jonojim1337]

Constantine changed the day of rest / worship from the seventh day to the 1st day. The Roman Church went right along with it, begin to call it the Lord's Day and most churches throughout the centuries have followed suit.

Sunday | Rest, Worship, Reflection | Britannica
Sunday | Rest, Worship, Reflection | Britannica

The Christian Sabbath is not a day of the Julian calendar or what have you. This is irrelevant.

The Israelites were supposed to be an example to the world. God made the Covenant with Abraham that all nations through him would be blessed.
Genesis 22:18 And through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice." Genesis 22:18 - The Sacrifice Averted
The Abraham Covenant is still in force.

No, it’s not. It was fulfilled when Christ died, as that was the terms of the covenant and the parties involved.

The promise to Abraham was not related to either the circumcision or the covenant. It was just that, a promise.

 

[Hentenza]

The ten commandments were given to the Israelites under the covenant of Abraham.

No they were given under the Mosaic law. Abraham did not receive the 10 commandments.

 

[Hentenza]

Constantine changed the day of rest / worship from the seventh day to the 1st day.

No. The early church worshipped on Sunday not Saturday as it was the day our Lord was resurrected. There is plenty of patriarchal evidence as early as the first century.

 

[jonojim1337]

No they were given under the Mosaic law. Abraham did not receive the 10 commandments.

Mosaic law applies to the Israelites under the old covenant

It’s just the terms of the contract.

 

[Hentenza]

Mosaic law applies to the Israelites under the old covenant

It’s just the terms of the contract.

It is. But the law was given to Moses at Sinai not to Abraham. God gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision.

 

[jonojim1337]

It is. But the law was given to Moses at Sinai not to Abraham. God gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision.

So what?

 

[Hentenza]

So what?

Historical context. The mosaic law was given 430 years after Abraham.

“Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as one would in referring to many, but rather as in referring to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came 430 years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:16-17 (NASB2020) - Now the promises were spoken to Abr | YouVersion

Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as one would in referring to many, but rather as in referring to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. Wha

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