Eve and the Fallacy of Moral Choices

[bling]

Are you claiming

Mark 4:15 applies to everyone. All are tempted internally and therefore have evil present within them.

First off in Mark 4:15 Jesus specifically says: “Some people” and not “all people”.

Look at the context of Mark 4: 15 starting with Mark 4: 13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14 The farmer sows the word. 15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18 Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20 Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown.”

In context there are four different groups of soils (people).

Jesus was tempted so being tempted does not mean He has “evil present within” them.

And that would be your own add on position trying to disqualifying your neighbors love and self justifying yours.

The contingency is right from the Bible “if we Love one another”.

Read my statements again. Then give a specific named person. Just one will do. Hint in advance. You wont find a single one.

1 Timothy 1: 19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

1 Tim. 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

1 Tim. 5: 11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. 13 Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to. 14 So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. 15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.

2 Tim. 1: 15 You know that everyone in the province of Asia has deserted me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes.

2 Tim. 2: 7 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

2 Tim. 4: 10 for Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thessalonica. Crescens has gone to Galatia, and Titus to Dalmatia.

All are under sin. Romans 3:9. Sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15.

Ro. 3: 9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.

This is referring to both Jews and Gentiles. Yes all mature adults sinned.

1 John 3: 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

We are either servants of satan or servants of God.

Mark 4: 15 is explained above.

It is incumbent on your position to eradicate those scriptures and a host of others

God does make people believe or they wouldn't believe

Believe/faith is not a “work” (meaning deserving of something), but humility and believe is our part which we bring to the salvation process. Every mature adult believes in somethings (some worship gods of stone).

The shotgun is being held by people who thinks God is going to burn them or others alive forever. These positions are simply forced manipulation. Believe or else. Common works/law salvation positions

To believe in hell you have to believe in the Christian God.

God did it to Himself bt aggravating devils in people which same killed Him, thereby sealing their fate to hell

So this is a suicide act?

God is not in need, least of all for the self centered self interested love of mankind, as if we have something Ge needs.

I am not saying God needs anything, God is just trying to get us to humble accept His Love.

Nope

As previously noted your pisition eliminates both the Will of God and the will of the tempter in the equations. And therefore doesnt add up

It fits man’s objective.

God always has two positions active with everyone And it's quite simple. For good/against evil, simultaneously

Neither can be eliminated from His sight

How is this not saying that God’s actions are contingent on the choices of the people?

The evil present in no one makes good choices is the point. Your positions try to eliminate the obvious issue. It doesn't add up.

Never will

Yes it does.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

First off in Mark 4:15 Jesus specifically says: “Some people” and not “all people”.

IF you believe that is the case THEN Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4 and Deut. 8:3 are all WRONG

or, your reasoning is off

IF all have sin, (we do) and sin is of the devil, (it is) then Mark 4:15 applies to everyone

IF we are tempted in mind/heart, (we are) then Mark 4:15 is true again

I could go on, but if you exempt yourself from Mark 4:15 then you are basically rejecting the Word of God

And of course we know who does that don't we?

The balance of your reply is self justification, which I can't do in light of the above

Oh, and btw I do believe in eternal hell, for the devil and his messengers so that question is off the table

 

[bling]

IF you believe that is the case THEN Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4 and Deut. 8:3 are all WRONG

or, your reasoning is off

I fully believe what Jesus said: Look at the context of Mark 4: 15 starting with Mark 4: 13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14 The farmer sows the word. 15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18 Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20 Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown.”

By Jesus’ own words: not everyone hears the word the same way every time.

Jesus explains Mark 4:4 in context Mark 4:13-20 and even in Mark 4 he says some and not all.

What are you trying to get Luke 4: 4 to say, since it only says: Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone.’”

How does: “Deut. 8:3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.” Support your idea satan lives within all of us all the time?

IF all have sin, (we do) and sin is of the devil, (it is) then Mark 4:15 applies to everyone

All mature adults have sinned and sin is of the devil, but the scripture says we sinned and does not say: the devil inside of each of us sinned, making it the devil’s fault.

IF we are tempted in mind/heart, (we are) then Mark 4:15 is true again

Mark 4:15 is true, that is not in question, but Jesus says it applies to only “some” and not all people all the time since there are other types of soils (people’s hearts).

I could go on, but if you exempt yourself from Mark 4:15 then you are basically rejecting the Word of God

That is a straw man. I am not “exempting” myself from any scripture, just point out people are different at different times in their lives and do not always act like solid ground (harden hearts).

And of course we know who does that don't we?

The balance of your reply is self justification, which I can't do in light of the above

Oh, and btw I do believe in eternal hell, for the devil and his messengers so that question is off the table

That is a copout response.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I fully believe what Jesus said: Look at the context of Mark 4: 15

I can certainly appreciate the rewritten "some people" add on.

You might realize that any translators that can't see the fact that devils and people walk in the same pair of shoes are only going to see PEOPLE and not our adversary.

That is exactly your position come to think of it.

 

[bling]

I can certainly appreciate the rewritten "some people" add on.

You might realize that any translators that can't see the fact that devils and people walk in the same pair of shoes are only going to see PEOPLE and not our adversary.

That is exactly your position come to think of it.

Most Bible translations are done by a group of really good Biblical scholars who hat to agree or will include multiple translations in the footnotes, so can you point me to another translation of scripture supporting your interpretation?
Satan roams the earth, and some people are demon possessed, but Jesus drove out the demon from those possessed around Him, which was not everyone.
Satan is the tempter and Jesus was tempted by satan, but being tempted does not mean you automatically sin.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Most Bible translations are done by a group of really good Biblical scholars who hat to agree or will include multiple translations in the footnotes, so can you point me to another translation of scripture supporting your interpretation?

There's a perfectly good and obvious reason why terms in the KJV with regards to a lot a scripture using terms such as "these" and "they" rather than people.

The reason is contained right there in the parable and exampled by Jesus and the Apostles that shows the devil and his messengers operate in and through people.

So, you will term people as just some people but the term some isn't in the parable

ALL people have the Word stolen from our hearts. ALL. That theft is perpetual. None have perfect and full understandings. None. There are no exceptions. Never have been other than God Himself in the flesh

Satan roams the earth, and some people are demon possessed,

We're not discussing possession

Satan is the tempter and Jesus was tempted by satan, but being tempted does not mean you automatically sin.

Temptation equates to evil lawless thoughts which defile everyone. Again no exceptions. Never have been exceptions

 

[bling]

There's a perfectly good and obvious reason why terms in the KJV with regards to a lot a scripture using terms such as "these" and "they" rather than people.

The reason is contained right there in the parable and exampled by Jesus and the Apostles that shows the devil and his messengers operate in and through people.

So, you will term people as just some people but the term some isn't in the parable

ALL people have the Word stolen from our hearts. ALL. That theft is perpetual. None have perfect and full understandings. None. There are no exceptions. Never have been other than God Himself in the flesh

Another strawman argument: I never suggested anyone other than Christ is perfect.

Do at least some Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit and if so does demons, devil or some other evil beings also dwell in these people?

I am still waiting on you to find on NT translation done by a group of scholars which has Mark 4:13-20 using people. Also look at Jesus explanation of the same parable in Matt:13: 18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

You have to look at the context for both the soils and different individuals, they are not all the same people.

We're not discussing possession

Are they not in the person causing sin?

Temptation equates to evil lawless thoughts which defile everyone. Again no exceptions. Never have been exceptions

You say: “Temptation equates to evil lawless thoughts which defile everyone. Again no exceptions.” Jesus was tempted so did He have evil thoughts?

 

[jonojim1337]

Women like to tempt and gain alotta stuff.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Do at least some Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit and if so does demons, devil or some other evil beings also dwell in these people?

Paul himself had evil present with him, Romans 7:21, never claimed to be sinless, Romans 3:9 and even outright stated he had a messenger of Satan in his own flesh, 2 Cor. 12:7, inclusive of temptation in his flesh, Gal. 4:14. Paul also never exempted himself from any Word of God, as most are prone to do today.

It really shouldn't be all that hard to figure out, even without scriptures, that we are tempted often, and internally, in effect blindsided from out of nowhere, and not from our own minds, but in mind nevertheless.

These are not hard observations by either scripture or by experience. We ALL have an evil conscience.

And we ALL have adversaries that are unseen. This really should be common knowledge among believers, not this lying "I am exempt" nonsense that most carry. It's really not even them making such statements. They are statements under the influences.

God bound everyone to disobedience...Romans 11:32 and that disobedience is an unseen spiritual adversary, Eph. 2:2

These are, in essence the very same TWO VESSELS that Paul writes of in Romans 9, in ONE LUMP Paul termed "me."

I am still waiting on you to find on NT translation done by a group of scholars which has Mark 4:13-20 using people.

It was your used translation that used the term "some people." That doesn't exist in the KJV or other translations.

ALL parables consist of 3 parties: God/people and the devil

The parable is The Word. Luke 8:11

Most often these terms are rightfully stated as "these" and "they. No one is exempt from Mark 4:15 OR the remaining parts of the parables because ---> ALL people are God's children bound with our adversaries in our flesh. It's also the identical principle spoken of by Paul in Gal. 4:21-29, and many other places throughout the scriptures.

God does really want people to understand, but likewise the devils will never understand and to them, they will neither understand and they will resist, obfuscate, disobey every single time.

Since in the end there will be no harm, no foul to people, it all works out and we will have served His Purposes for us in these events of our lives.

You have to look at the context for both the soils and different individuals, they are not all the same people.

That is only what you'd prefer it to say. I really don't see how anyone can honestly come to that conclusion if they believe Jesus, that man shall LIVE by EVERY WORD of God.

Your position has obviously both rejected personal applicability of Mark 4:15 and Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4 and Deut. 8:3

Again, no blame to you as a person. It's really meant to happen this way