• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Eve and the Fallacy of Moral Choices

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,898
1,938
✟1,024,519.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Are you claiming

Mark 4:15 applies to everyone. All are tempted internally and therefore have evil present within them.
First off in Mark 4:15 Jesus specifically says: “Some people” and not “all people”.

Look at the context of Mark 4: 15 starting with Mark 4: 13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14 The farmer sows the word. 15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18 Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20 Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown.”

In context there are four different groups of soils (people).

Jesus was tempted so being tempted does not mean He has “evil present within” them.
And that would be your own add on position trying to disqualifying your neighbors love and self justifying yours.
The contingency is right from the Bible “if we Love one another”.
Read my statements again. Then give a specific named person. Just one will do. Hint in advance. You wont find a single one.
1 Timothy 1: 19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

1 Tim. 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

1 Tim. 5: 11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. 13 Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to. 14 So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. 15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.

2 Tim. 1: 15 You know that everyone in the province of Asia has deserted me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes.

2 Tim. 2: 7 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

2 Tim. 4: 10 for Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thessalonica. Crescens has gone to Galatia, and Titus to Dalmatia.
All are under sin. Romans 3:9. Sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15.
Ro. 3: 9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.

This is referring to both Jews and Gentiles. Yes all mature adults sinned.

1 John 3: 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

We are either servants of satan or servants of God.

Mark 4: 15 is explained above.
It is incumbent on your position to eradicate those scriptures and a host of others

God does make people believe or they wouldn't believe
Believe/faith is not a “work” (meaning deserving of something), but humility and believe is our part which we bring to the salvation process. Every mature adult believes in somethings (some worship gods of stone).
The shotgun is being held by people who thinks God is going to burn them or others alive forever. These positions are simply forced manipulation. Believe or else. Common works/law salvation positions
To believe in hell you have to believe in the Christian God.

God did it to Himself bt aggravating devils in people which same killed Him, thereby sealing their fate to hell
So this is a suicide act?
God is not in need, least of all for the self centered self interested love of mankind, as if we have something Ge needs.
I am not saying God needs anything, God is just trying to get us to humble accept His Love.
Nope

As previously noted your pisition eliminates both the Will of God and the will of the tempter in the equations. And therefore doesnt add up
It fits man’s objective.
God always has two positions active with everyone And it's quite simple. For good/against evil, simultaneously

Neither can be eliminated from His sight
How is this not saying that God’s actions are contingent on the choices of the people?
The evil present in no one makes good choices is the point. Your positions try to eliminate the obvious issue. It doesn't add up.

Never will
Yes it does.
 
Upvote 0

BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
Jun 2, 2024
1,816
187
71
Florida
✟71,455.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
First off in Mark 4:15 Jesus specifically says: “Some people” and not “all people”.
IF you believe that is the case THEN Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4 and Deut. 8:3 are all WRONG

or, your reasoning is off

IF all have sin, (we do) and sin is of the devil, (it is) then Mark 4:15 applies to everyone

IF we are tempted in mind/heart, (we are) then Mark 4:15 is true again

I could go on, but if you exempt yourself from Mark 4:15 then you are basically rejecting the Word of God

And of course we know who does that don't we?

The balance of your reply is self justification, which I can't do in light of the above

Oh, and btw I do believe in eternal hell, for the devil and his messengers so that question is off the table
 
Upvote 0