Christmas

[Apple Sky]

The story of Santa Claus has a dark origin in the legends of Saint Nicholas, who is said to have resurrected three boys murdered and pickled by an evil innkeeper. This gruesome tale was a part of his mythos in medieval Europe and contributed to his being associated with dark companions like Krampus or Père Fouettard, who punish naughty children. Over time, the modern, cheerful Santa Claus image emerged, largely through Clement C. Moore's poem and Thomas Nast's illustrations, which downplayed or ignored these darker origins.

And don't forget what the name 'Santa' is an anagram of.

Was Jesus really born on December 25th when the sheep were lying low ?

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

Forget about Santa Claus - only a worry for people in Anglo-Saxon countries anyway; but St Nicholas is an interesting man - Bishop of Myra. He was present at the famous Council of Nicea (325 AD). There is still a St Nicholas Day on the 6th or 5th December in several countries in Europe. His remains are in Bari in Italy up to this day.

 

[David Lamb]

The story of Santa Claus has a dark origin in the legends of Saint Nicholas, who is said to have resurrected three boys murdered and pickled by an evil innkeeper. This gruesome tale was a part of his mythos in medieval Europe and contributed to his being associated with dark companions like Krampus or Père Fouettard, who punish naughty children. Over time, the modern, cheerful Santa Claus image emerged, largely through Clement C. Moore's poem and Thomas Nast's illustrations, which downplayed or ignored these darker origins.

And don't forget what the name 'Santa' is an anagram of.

Was Jesus really born on December 25th when the sheep were lying low ?

Whose words are those? They don't sound like your own.

Anyway, from what you wrote or quoted referred to the innkeeper as wicked, dark and gruesome, not Nicholas.

Just because in English "Santa" (meaning "saint") is an anagram of Satan doesn't say anything about the nature of "Santa." "Lived" is an anagram of "devil." So what?

I agree that we do not know the date of the birth of Jesus.

 

[Apple Sky]

I agree that we do not know the date of the birth of Jesus.

What ever the date was, it wasn't in December.

 

[David Lamb]

What ever the date was, it wasn't in December.

Probably not. I have heard it said that the sheep would not have been outside at night in winter

 

[Apple Sky]

Probably not. I have heard it said that the sheep would not have been outside at night in winter

The idea of December was paganism & comes from Saturnalia,

AI Overview

Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival celebrated in mid-December in honor of the god Saturn. It was a joyous, carnival-like holiday marked by feasting, gift-giving, and the temporary suspension of social order, including role reversals where masters served slaves. Originally a one-day celebration on December 17th, it was eventually expanded to last seven days, ending on December 23rd.

 

[Strong in Him]

The story of Santa Claus has a dark origin in the legends of Saint Nicholas,

Nothing "dark" about him at all.
Nicholas was an orthodox bishop who secretly gave gifts to the poor. That's probably how the whole "coming down the chimney" thing came from - no one saw him doing them.

We should all be like St Nicholas - Matthew 6:3.

And "Santa" is the Spanish for "saint".

 

[Strong in Him]

The idea of December was paganism & comes from Saturnalia,

December was originally the 10th month of the year - "Dec" means 10, as in "decimal", "decathlon" and so on.
That made October the 8th month - "Oct", "octopus", "octagonal" etc.

I understand that "July" was inserted into the calendar - named after Julius Caesar.
Not to be outdone, Augustus insisted on having a month named after him too.

 

[Strong in Him]

Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival celebrated in mid-December in honor of the god Saturn. It was a joyous, carnival-like holiday marked by feasting, gift-giving, and the temporary suspension of social order, including role reversals where masters served slaves. Originally a one-day celebration on December 17th, it was eventually expanded to last seven days, ending on December 23rd.

So therefore nothing to do with a festival on the 25th.

 

[Lost4words]

It doesnt matter what date we celebrate the birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Its the actual rejoicing in His birth that matters!!!

 

[Apple Sky]

So therefore nothing to do with a festival on the 25th.

French priest and historian Louis Duchesne (1843-1917) proposed the influential "calculation hypothesis" for why Christmas is on December 25th, suggesting it wasn't just to replace pagan festivals.

 

[Strong in Him]

French priest and historian Louis Duchesne (1843-1917) proposed the influential "calculation hypothesis" for why Christmas is on December 25th, suggesting it wasn't just to replace pagan festivals.

I thought you were arguing that Christmas came from Saturnalia?

My statement was that if Saturnalia is over by Dec 23rd, it's not connected to Christmas on the 25th.