Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

[boughtwithaprice]

I have made a practice not to continue debating when someone uses their own words as if its equal to God's. Your argument is not Biblically supported, There is no Scripture that says the NC changed God's 4th commandment. This goes against God's very own teaching where He said the exact opposite. I will not alter the words of the covenant Deut4:13 Psa89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19, so not something as small as a dot of an i or cross of a t can pass from the law of God, so changing it is going against the clear will of God. He predicted the Sabbath would be changed Dan7:25 but not by Him and there is a clear history of this already provided and they admit doing so based on their authority over the word of God. Anytime, when we elevate a man-made teaching over one of God's commandments, it is profaning it, Jesus used the phrase worshipping Him in vain Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13, even if we do not think so. Its why God Himself said not keeping the Sabbath is going after idols Eze20:16. Its replacing the Authority of God with another authority. I know it sounds good to the ears that we can receive God's blessings and sanctification on a day God made for work and labors, but its not something we can find in our Bibles. God in His own words condemned this. Eze22:26 Eze20:16 Isa66:17

In my view of the Bible, we are to change our life around God's word, not the other way around. God was specific for a reason, just like he was with Adam and Eve and just like He was with the children of Israel during their trial of the wilderness. God does want to bless Isa56:2 and sanctify us Eze20:12 but its based on His power of Authority Exo20:11, not based on what man wants.

Anyway, I wish you well, I am going to leave it as agree to disagree.

I do not consider it arguing because we both believe the Sabbath was instituted by God, and I do not argue profaning it. You say it is my words and not scripture but Paul says the same that I am saying in Romans 14

4- Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? To his own lord he standeth or falleth. And he shall stand: for God is able to make him stand 5 For one judgeth between day and day: and another judgeth every day: let every man abound in his own sense.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord. And he that eateth, eateth to the Lord: for he giveth thanks to God. And he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth thanks to God. 7 For none of us liveth to himself; and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; or whether we die, we die unto the Lord. Therefore, whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose again; that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. 10 But thou, why judgest thou thy brother? or thou, why dost thou despise thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.


Keeping everyday alike does not nullify the Sabbath, it amplifies it. We are to deny ourselves always and mortify the deeds of our flesh. In doing so, we never profane the Sabbath.

This Sabbath only teaching is obviously a distraction in the body of Christ


Scripture also says in Matthew 7

16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.



What is the fruit of Sabbath only teaching? To some it is a way to honor God. To others it is a cause of arrogance and ridicule causing some souls to view themselves superior which is against scripture which says consider all others as better than yourself

I do not say you do that, but there have been many SDA in my experience that do that and they are not rebuked. Does SDA not wish to instill humility in their adherents?

The error that SDA teaching on Romans 14 makes is that they claim others use it to justify profaning the Sabbath. It may be true for some but it does not reflect Church teaching and is therefore a misleading argument

I pray to God you seek the truth and not presume you already have it. This conversation with you has opened my eyes to further truth. Sunday does not nullify nor replace the Sabbath but celebrates its continuation
We have ceased from our labors by denying ourselves

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I do not consider it arguing because we both believe the Sabbath was instituted by God, and I do not argue profaning it. You say it is my words and not scripture but Paul says the same that I am saying in Romans 14

4- Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? To his own lord he standeth or falleth. And he shall stand: for God is able to make him stand 5 For one judgeth between day and day: and another judgeth every day: let every man abound in his own sense.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord. And he that eateth, eateth to the Lord: for he giveth thanks to God. And he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth thanks to God. 7 For none of us liveth to himself; and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; or whether we die, we die unto the Lord. Therefore, whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose again; that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. 10 But thou, why judgest thou thy brother? or thou, why dost thou despise thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Keeping everyday alike does not nullify the Sabbath, it amplifies it. We are to deny ourselves always and mortify the deeds of our flesh. In doing so, we never profane the Sabbath.

This Sabbath only teaching is obviously a distraction in the body of Christ

Thanks for providing Scriptures, this is a popular argument against obeying one of God's commandments, but I do not believe it was what Paul was referring to. We are told that when God blesses something, like He did with the Sabbath, only He can reverse Num23:20, so we would need a thus saith the Lord. Especially when it comes to Paul who has a warning in Scripture that people twist his writings to their own destruction, so to indicate that we should believe that Paul just undid everything God said in all of Scripture starting from Creation on the Sabbath undoing God's blessing, undoing God's sanctification, and what Jesus said plainly, not a jot or tittle shall pass from His law, not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:18-19 but Paul is going to go against God and undo everything - God's own written Testimony that is under God's mercy seat. I see why we this is in our Bibles 2Peter3:16

Can you please point in this passage where it says the Sabbath once in Romans14? Can you point in this passage where what man esteems is more valuable than what God esteems in His own written and spoken Testimony. This is not an argument about if one should keep or not keep one of God's commandments which is not a dispute over over doubtful things. Its a discussion over what man esteems- like today some esteem Christmas as a religious holiday, while others do not, it was never about if we should disregard or keep a commandment of God or change what God wrote plainly. Not even your own church interprets this Scripture this way, they clearly say they changed the Sabbath not based on Scripture but their own authority over the word of God.

Scripture also says in Matthew 7

16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

Weird you would try to use what God said against what God deemed holy and righteous as if that's bad fruit.

What is the fruit of Sabbath only teaching? To some it is a way to honor God.

I guess if one wants to go by what the God of the Bible said in His own words, if that counts Isa58:13

To others it is a cause of arrogance and ridicule causing some souls to view themselves superior which is against scripture which says consider all others as better than yourself

I do not say you do that, but there have been many SDA in my experience that do that and they are not rebuked. Does SDA not wish to instill humility in their adherents?

The error that SDA teaching on Romans 14 makes is that they claim others use it to justify profaning the Sabbath. It may be true for some but it does not reflect Church teaching and is therefore a misleading argument

This is all an opinion and seems like the real distraction to move away from what God commanded and try to justify why doing so, to make it seem Biblical when no Scripture supports it. Sorry you see it that way, but my view is our time on this earth is drawing to a near and God is calling us out of the false teachings Rev18:4 that have been handed down to us before its too late Rev 22:11. I have never seen anyone use keeping the Sabbath as a way to make one feel superior than someone else, if they do, we all have to answer to God, but even if someone was, it still doesn't change what God wrote and God spoke so plainly Exo20:8-11. What other people do or don't do has no bearing on our own salvation. He all have to stand before God based on what we do. Ecc12:13-14 2Cor5:10

I pray to God you seek the truth and not presume you already have it.

Same to you my friend.

This conversation with you has opened my eyes to further truth. Sunday does not nullify nor replace the Sabbath but celebrates its continuation We have ceased from our labors by denying ourselves

Nothing we can find in our Bibles, God made all other days for work and labors Exo20:9 God only blessed and sanctified one day, the seventh day is the Sabbath Exo20:8-11 Gen2:1-3 , the Holy Day of the Lord thy God thus saith the Lord Isa58:13 God never said this about any other day. Sunday over Sabbath is a man-made tradition over obeying one of God's personally written and spoken commandments that comes with His power of blessings and sanctification. All are called Isa56:6 sadly few respond. Rev12:17 Rev14:12

 

[Bob S]

The only people that remain under the law is unbelieving Israel, as they rejected the Messiah, and those who choose to remain under the law.

Hi Hentenza, your post is great. I do have one question. Jesus said He came to fulfill the old covenant Law. How then does mankind have a choice to serve under a covenant that Jesus came to bring to an end? It seems to me all mankind is under the new and better covenant Jesus shed blood ratified.

 

[Hentenza]

Hi Hentenza, your post is great. I do have one question. Jesus said He came to fulfill the old covenant Law. How then does mankind have a choice to serve under a covenant that Jesus came to bring to an end? It seems to me all mankind is under the new and better covenant Jesus shed blood ratified.

Hi Bob. Thanks for the compliment. The law was given to Israel not to the gentiles. Jews are still under the law until they accept the Messiah. All believers in Christ are under the new covenant but some groups choose to continue to follow the law. The Messianic Jews come to mind. Other groups, like the SDAs posting in this thread, only follow portions of the law even though they deny it.

At the end of the day we are saved by the grace of God through faith so as long as faith remains that’s what counts.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob. Thanks for the compliment. The law was given to Israel not to the gentiles. Jews are still under the law until they accept the Messiah. All believers in Christ are under the new covenant but some groups choose to continue to follow the law. The Messianic Jews come to mind. Other groups, like the SDAs posting in this thread, only follow portions of the law even though they deny it.

At the end of the day we are saved by the grace of God through faith so as long as faith remains that’s what counts.

The object of Jesus coming to Earth was to free Israel from the Law and provide them with salvation by their faith. We see this over and over in the writings of Paul. This leaves us with the question; if Jews are still under the Law, was Paul's admonition that they were freed from it false?

 

[Hentenza]

The object of Jesus coming to Earth was to free Israel from the Law and provide them with salvation by their faith. We see this over and over in the writings of Paul. This leaves us with the question; if Jews are still under the Law, was Paul's admonition that they were freed from it false?

Corporate Israel rejected the Messiah. Paul preached the gospel to them and they rejected it. Christ fulfilled the whole law but they rejected Christ so they still need the law to point them to a savior (Gal. 3:24).

““Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is the One who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23‬:‭37‬-‭39‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 23:37-39 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you | New American Standard Bible -

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you

bible.com

They rejected the Messiah so they won’t see Jesus until they have faith in Him.

“For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.” “This is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11‬:‭25‬-‭27‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 11:25-27 For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of | New American Standard Bible - N

For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of

bible.com

Israel is under a partial hardening right now and simply continue in the law waiting for the messiah to come but they will be saved after the fullness of the gentiles has come in. They are not partakers of Christ redemptive sacrifice. However, just like all that were saved under the old covenant, salvation is by faith (Rom. 4:3).

 

[Bob S]

How could an Israelite be saved by the Old Covenant Law? The Old Covenant was never about salvation. All the Law could do was point out sin. Only Jesus saves.

How are Jews who have not accepted Jesus any different than the rest of humanity? Gal3:
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? (to Israel) It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

In Matt 5, we read that Jesus came to fulfill (bring an end) the prophecies concerning His coming. In the same sentence, he also claimed the same for the Law. Doesn't that mean that during His time on Earth He ratified the New Covenant? The New Covenant then had to supersede the Sinai covenant. The Sinai covenant could not save one soul. It could only point out sin. Every living soul can hear the Word and claim the promises that Jesus made in the New and better Covenant. The Old Sinai Covenant is now history. No one is subject to a covenant that ended at Calvary.

To all who believe they are still under the guidance of the old covenant I would point you to Gal5:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

What good would it be for Jews to still under laws that Jesus brought to an end? Gentiles are not under those Law, and we find Jesus.