The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

[rambot]

The Medicare / Medicaid data base does distinguish between ideation and completed suicides.

"Gender minority" can only be "those seeking gender affirming care" because homosexuals who don't have gender dysphoria; are not considered "gender minorities". Homosexuality is a sexual orientation; not a body identity issue.

Gender minorities also get head colds and break their legs. I didn't see a note that this was specifically about gender affirming care.

The Medicare data also showed that longitudinal wise; the "40% of trans kids" having suicidal ideations; "gender affirming care" did not improve those stats. Still, 7 to 10 years post "transition" 40% were still suicidal and 20% had "successful" suicides.

Is there a reason you're not linking to this data?

Mytwo thoughts on this. Gender affirming surgeries don't impact how society and others see these people.

Or..... maybe it's not actually society that's the problem; but an innate understanding of truth; that one can not be the opposite sex. You have a Y chromosome or you don't!

Or just that these folks have a mental illness and there is a procedure rhat helps many od them though it doesn't change some underlying factors.


I shared thr study that showed a very low regret rate. Can you do the same with these numbers please?

 

[rambot]

I have, over and over again. Everytime you used gender I used sex and it meant the same thing.

Yes they do. They are only distinct because some people wanted to explain away transgenderism, instead of just accepting it was a mental health problem. So they use the words gender identity to do that. Gender was originally used as a substitute for sex. It meant the same thing as biological sex. It became the word to use particularly when talking about men's and womens roles in society. But even that was tied to biological sex, using gender roles instead of sex roles. What it meant was the roles for biological men and roles for biological weomen which was a reference to their sex. Then some pedophile named Money really started using the word for someone's identity and starred experimenting with the idea that it was not tied to one's biological sex. His experiments failed, yet academia stuck with it. And it really grew into what we have today with the transgender ideology meaning you can be a woman in the inside and a man on the outside. Which again is a reference to biological sex.

No one is assigned sex at birth. Sex is recognized at birth. With trans people they have a mental health disorder. Because you can't be a woman on the outside and a man on the inside. Its all psychological. The social and cultural norms for each sex do not define whether you are a woman or a man. If I would rather clean the house instead of take care of the yard, I am not a woman. If I think I am a woman its a psychological disorder. The word gender is used used as an effort to say that a person really is the opposite sex on the inside. Which is impossible to actually define or determine.

You cant actually be trans. Its a mental health disorder.

But you can be intersexed...and then you DO get assigned a sex a birth.


I understand it's a small group. Bur you speaking in absolutes is just incorrect.

It just is.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Gender minorities also get head colds and break their legs. I didn't see a note that this was specifically about gender affirming care.



Is there a reason you're not linking to this data?

Mytwo thoughts on this. Gender affirming surgeries don't impact how society and others see these people.


Or just that these folks have a mental illness and there is a procedure rhat helps many od them though it doesn't change some underlying factors.


I shared thr study that showed a very low regret rate. Can you do the same with these numbers please?

I "don't like" your data because: The study you cited; doesn't have enough participants over a long enough period of time without the bias of being collected by a "gender affirming care" clinic.

"Head colds" and "broken legs" is data irrelevant to suicides, depression and anxiety.

Since when does surgery fix a psychiatric condition?

And how is: "Transgender Medicare Beneficiaries and Chronic Conditions" not about "gender affirming care"

Transgender Medicare Beneficiaries and Chronic Conditions: Exploring Fee-for-Service Claims Data - PMC

Purpose: Data on the health and well-being of the transgender population are limited. However, using claims data we can identify transgender Medicare beneficiaries (TMBs) with high confidence. We seek to describe the TMB population and provide ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And how is: "Disparities in Suicidality by Gender Identity Among Medicare Beneficiaries" not about "gender affirming care"?

Disparities in Suicidality by Gender Identity Among Medicare Beneficiaries - PMC

Suicidality is higher for gender minorities than the general population, yet little is known about suicidality in disabled or older adult gender minorities. This study used 2009–2014 Medicare claims to identify people with gender identity–related ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Say it aint so]

Your study here is data collected from a "gender affirming care" clinic and consists of only 450 patients which they only followed for 2 years.

Thus I conclude that 10 years of Medicare / Medicaid data following thousands of "trans" people compared to millions of general population both of those on disability as well as those over 65 years old; over 10 years post treatment; is more reliable.

Also, why do you think comparing "trans" people data on mental health to the general population be inappropriate? When making statistical comparisons; you have to have a "control group" in your study. And that is usually "the general population".

What I asked is "Now suppose the implementation of those gender affirming actions reduce suicide rates. If it does, is there more empathic value in that or just get rid of them regardless?" So forget about the studies for a second, If gender affirming care led to lower suicide rates would that be enough for those who are not supportive to those actions to reconsider?

 

[BCP1928]

I have, over and over again. Everytime you used gender I used sex and it meant the same thing.

Yes they do. They are only distinct because some people wanted to explain away transgenderism, instead of just accepting it was a mental health problem. So they use the words gender identity to do that. Gender was originally used as a substitute for sex. It meant the same thing as biological sex. It became the word to use particularly when talking about men's and womens roles in society. But even that was tied to biological sex, using gender roles instead of sex roles. What it meant was the roles for biological men and roles for biological weomen which was a reference to their sex. Then some pedophile named Money really started using the word for someone's identity and starred experimenting with the idea that it was not tied to one's biological sex. His experiments failed, yet academia stuck with it. And it really grew into what we have today with the transgender ideology meaning you can be a woman in the inside and a man on the outside. Which again is a reference to biological sex.

No one is assigned sex at birth. Sex is recognized at birth. With trans people they have a mental health disorder. Because you can't be a woman on the outside and a man on the inside. Its all psychological. The social and cultural norms for each sex do not define whether you are a woman or a man. If I would rather clean the house instead of take care of the yard, I am not a woman.

No, you are a biological male with at least some personal preferences society has traditionally assigned to women.

If I think I am a woman its a psychological disorder. The word gender is used used as an effort to say that a person really is the opposite sex on the inside. Which is impossible to actually define or determine.

You cant actually be trans. Its a mental health disorder.

There is the strict definition again. Only the truly dysphoric think they are the "opposite" biological sex. Trans people generally are in no doubt about their biology.

 

[RileyG]

I think this is beautiful. As the USA is poised to invade Venezuela, this is the kind of thread that REALLY gets people talking.

The culture war is one of the greatest political moves of the century.

The mental health and well being of children matters. I wouldn’t call that a culture war.

 

[The Righterzpen]

But you can be intersexed...and then you DO get assigned a sex a birth.


I understand it's a small group. Bur you speaking in absolutes is just incorrect.

It just is.

"Intersex" is somewhat of a misnomer. Human genome is XX or XY. And there are people who have genetic issues where they have XXY , (fragile X syndrome) or XYY (Jacob's syndrome) - both these syndromes the child is considered and usually "assigned male" at birth. Also though portions of X or Y chromosomes can end up in places where they are not suppose to be; thus they produce birth defects of the genitalia. But truth remains that in human beings; you either have a Y chromosome or you don't. "Y" is "male".

Now there is a very small number of males who have a genetic defect where their bodies don't respond to testosterone. And so in utero; they do not develop male primary sex traits. And when that is the case the "default" development is "female". But these males don't have ovaries or a uterus either. And because their bodies do not respond to testosterone, they will not go through puberty either. But one would need a genetic test to know if this is the case. Thus what is generally done in these cases is the child is given estrogen at puberty; because... giving them testosterone isn't going to work anyways!

Then there is an XX genome with a piece of a Y attached to it which produces a "female" with "male genitalia". (She basically has ovaries, a uterus and a penis; but some of these girls also have a scrotum and their ovaries actually drop into the scrotum and thus they appear "male" at birth. I don't know whether or not some of these girls can bear children; but some of them clearly can't. They do not produce testosterone though because they do not have a Y chromosome. (Their gonads are ovaries, not testicles; even if they are in a "scrotum" and they do produce estrogen because they are genetically coded XX.) Thus the estrogen will produce breasts and a "feminine" body. A lot of these girls aren't recognized until puberty because they look like boys at birth and develop normally; (I.E. they don't usually have other health or developmental issues) thus, there's no reason to do a genetic test if no one suspects anything. This genetic defect (X chromosome with Y genetic material attached) comes from the father's production of sperm. In meiosis; some of the genetic material that would produce "Y sperm" ends up in "X sperm". This is not that common though.

 

[The Righterzpen]

What I asked is "Now suppose the implementation of those gender affirming actions reduce suicide rates. If it does, is there more empathic value in that or just get rid of them regardless?" So forget about the studies for a second, If gender affirming care led to lower suicide rates would that be enough for those who are not supportive to those actions to reconsider?

Well, since it doesn't. (The studies don't bear this out.) Why try to argue a point from silence?

The other issue is; in no other mental health driven condition; is surgery ever used to correct the mental health condition. There is an ethical issue with removing healthy body parts. If I came into a doctor's office and said I "identified as an amputee" therefore remove one of my legs; no one would ever do that. That is against medical ethics. But if someone feels they were born with the wrong set of sex organs...??? Then we remove what they have and try to replace them with... fake ones. How is that logical?

 

[rjs330]

don't know about that. You don't seem to have any trouble with strict definitions for it and imposing thse strict definitions is part of what creates the problem in the first place

I most certainly am strict on male and female. There are only two sexes. No more, no less. A male cannot be a female and a female cannot be a male.

But within that dichotomy are almost infinite personalities. Almost infinite likes and dislikes, ways of dealing with emotions, work and leisure preferences, clothing preferences etc. etc. But you are still a man or still a woman within those things. There is no line a personality crosses that determines they are the opposite sex/gender.

There are male and female traits that are typically associated with each sex/gender But even those things are not owned by that sex/gender. Thats why one cannot actually be the opposite sex/gender.

A man cannot be a woman inside.

If it was socially ok to be a physical male and a psychlogical female then trans people would be much better off.

No they would not, because it is a psychological problem. They know they are biological sex they were born as, but for some reason they "feel" like a woman. Yet know one can tell you what a women feels like. Its no different than having a delusional disorder. Where the mind is not connected to reality. Often that feeling actually is the result of other mental health issues. Its that way particularly with kids.

Transgenderism is a SERIOUS mental health issue. And it should be treated that way. It cannot be cured, or solved, or helped by altering the physical. There may be a short honeymoon feeling of relief, but the mental health issue is still there and they know they are not the opposite sex and eventually like almost all mental health issues they return to being depressed that they have these issues.

 

[rjs330]

No, you are a biological male with at least some personal preferences society has traditionally assigned to women.

Then we agree.

There is the strict definition again. Only the truly dysphoric think they are the "opposite" biological sex. Trans people generally are in no doubt about their biology.

All transgender people think they are the opposite sex on the inside. Its a psychological dysfunction.

 

[Say it aint so]

Well, since it doesn't. (The studies don't bear this out.) Why try to argue a point from silence?

The other issue is; in no other mental health driven condition; is surgery ever used to correct the mental health condition. There is an ethical issue with removing healthy body parts. If I came into a doctor's office and said I "identified as an amputee" therefore remove one of my legs; no one would ever do that. That is against medical ethics. But if someone feels they were born with the wrong set of sex organs...??? Then we remove what they have and try to replace them with... fake ones. How is that logical?

I asked because we can have study battles all day long. I found those kinds of interactions here just aren't worth it. As your study notes what drives suicides; "Transgender individuals have a higher prevalence of depression across several age groups, often due to life experiences that include discrimination, harassment, violence, misgendering, and enacted stigma that may generate poor mental health outcomes and harmful behaviors." The hypothetical was meant to understand at what point would it take for others, who for example, mislabel what they experience as a mental condition. Even if one is take your study as gold, they are calling out the need of post procedure support.

 

[rjs330]

don't know about that. You don't seem to have any trouble with strict definitions for it and imposing thse strict definitions is part of what creates the problem in the first place

I most certainly am strict on male and female. There are only two sexes. No more, no less. A male cannot be a female and a female cannot be a male.

But within that dichotomy are almost infinite personalities. Almost infinite likes and dislikes, ways of dealing with emotions, work and leisure preferences, clothing preferences etc. etc. But you are still a man or still a woman within those things. There is no line a personality crosses that determines they are the opposite sex/gender.

There are male and female traits that are typically associated with each sex/gender But even those things are not owned by that sex/gender. Thats why one cannot actually be the opposite sex/gender.

A man cannot be a woman inside.

If it was socially ok to be a physical male and a psychlogical female then trans people would be much better off.

No they would not, because it is a psychological problem. They know they are biological sex they were born as, but for some reason they "feel" like a woman. Yet know one can tell you what a women feels like. Its no different than having a delusional disorder. Where the mind is not connected to reality. Often that feeling actually is the result of other mental health issues. Its that way particularly with kids.

Transgenderism is a SERIOUS mental health issue. And it should be treated that way. It cannot be cured, or solved, or helped by altering the physical.

But you can be intersexed...and then you DO get assigned a sex a birth.

Birth defects do not negate the norm.

 

[rjs330]

I asked because we can have study battles all day long. I found those kinds of interactions here just aren't worth it. As your study notes what drives suicides; "Transgender individuals have a higher prevalence of depression across several age groups, often due to life experiences that include discrimination, harassment, violence, misgendering, and enacted stigma that may generate poor mental health outcomes and harmful behaviors." The hypothetical was meant to understand at what point would it take for others, who for example, mislabel what they experience as a mental condition. Even if one is take your study as gold, they are calling out the need of post procedure support.

Transgenderism is the one psychological disorder that depends on everyone else in order to be psychologically healthy apparently.

At least the wording is correct in that "may" is used. They don't really know because its a serious disorder. They actually have no idea if the person's would no longer have depression if no one said anything to them. In fact at this time they are more accepted than they ever have been. And they arw still as depressed as rhey ever have been.

What they really need is psychological care and most likely for their entire lives. Because medical interventions for psychological conditions don't work at this point. We haven't found a drug that helps them not feel like they are the opposite sex.